England V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 29th May 2013 - Friendly [Archive] - Page 8

Ol� Ol�

30/05/2013, 4:04 PM

By my reckoning, the tide of the game turned firmly in England's favour when Cox came in, and even more so when Sammon did. Cox was unable to control the ball or provide link-up, like he normally can. The quality of defender he was up against was too strong. I don't think England would have held as much possession in attacking positions, if it weren't for our inability to hold the ball in their own half.

Hendrick looked out of sorts in the middle. Not that I aim to castigate the lad but pitting him against Carrick and Lampard is the highest challenge he's had to deal with and you could see the pace of the game caught him on the hop. It was still only a friendly though, at the end of the day.

Coleman and McCarthy and Long were immense. Fair play to them for putting up arguments for their selection that Trap couldn't possibly resist. A bit of their perseverance could do with rubbing off on Gibson. He would have been such an addition in the middle of the park last night.

paul_oshea

30/05/2013, 4:21 PM

I'm not writing Keane off yet because I also think he's the best finisher the side has. But if he's too play deeper with Long, the two have to get closer together. They almost linked up well last night (couple of flick ons just not quite coming off) but they never quite appear on the same wave length. It's very much a holding pattern up front and I'd agreed with anyone who suggested we need a permanent solution. Come on ya spagetti guzzler and give us some Hoolahan sure, see what's up.

I noticed on a few occasions, of course once mcgeady had to be involved and walters another time, where Long and Keane made the exact run they were starting from different positions obviously but were going into the same point, and ending up not giving the wingers proper options. Definitely a pattern there and they don't have it. But has anyone bar Niall Quinn, maybe as he just did the donkey work, had that with Keane?

paul_oshea

30/05/2013, 4:22 PM

Very much agreed but with respect PO'S, tell something we don't know...

Baku is the capital of Azerbaijan. Kerala is a communist state. Anything else?

paul_oshea

30/05/2013, 4:25 PM

Had it mattered England might have fluffed it like they frequently do. No-one can tell. Maybe we'd have played better too.

I used a rugby analogy above (slow ball from half backs) to describe Whelan. I can think of another rugby analogy for Forde: Girvan Dempsey versus Rob Kearney. Dempsey didn't have Kearney's pace or flair and I think fans may not have liked him as much because of this - in fact many didn't like him at all; but he was 100% reliable and his teammates would have loved that. Any flair on top of the reliability is a bonus. When defenders don't trust their keeper they overstretch themselves, or get twitchy. I know - mine never trusted me!

If Forde was anything close to dempsey we will be fine.

tricky_colour

30/05/2013, 5:45 PM

Oxlade. Sounds like something farmers would worry about in the 1800s.

Or some kind of soup perhaps.

Stuttgart88

30/05/2013, 6:22 PM

If Forde was anything close to dempsey we will be fine.
Actually Dempsey versus Geordan Murphy would have been a better analogy. One steady but unspectacular, the other very exciting but not as reliable defensively. The fans preferred one but I believe the players preferred the other. Fans and players would prefer Kearney!

SkStu

30/05/2013, 6:26 PM

Another 'alternative' English view...
Surprised cullotty 82 has not already posted, but this thread does feature our rotund friend with their dubious spelling...
:eek:
http://www.wsc.co.uk/forum-index/27-football/804012-interim-friendly-report-england-v-rep-of-ireland

i dont get it...

Stuttgart88

30/05/2013, 7:36 PM

Just to revert to Forde and his lowly club status versus his international form. I only vaguely remember Mick Kearns of Walsall. How was he for Ireland? My understanding was that he was very good for us, but I can't recall much, good or bad.

Geysir, Owls Fan, Noely?

geysir

30/05/2013, 8:26 PM

It's a bit ridiculous to actually having to explain why Forde merits praise for his performances so far, when out of all the concerns about our team, the goalkeeper position is one of the least worrisome.
You'd have to be really hard up for objects of censure, to pick on Forde's shortcomings.

Charlie Darwin

30/05/2013, 8:40 PM

POS's argument basically goes like this: A great goalkeeper doesn't make mistakes. Forde hasn't made any mistakes so far, but he will in future. Therefore Forde is not a great goalkeeper.

Stuttgart88

30/05/2013, 9:23 PM

elroy

30/05/2013, 10:03 PM

Solid performance. However our inability or reluctance to hold the ball/maintain possession is killing this team.

In the second half, particularly the last 20 mins. All we did was hoof the ball up field and give it back to England. As a result, we dropped deeper and deeper and resulted in having almost every player in our half behind the ball.

Can anyone at all explain the reason why Trap persists with nonsensical substitution such as Cox playing on the wing or even bringing on Sammon when there are superior options on the bench. Such changes are costing us points and none more recent than the Austria game. Also thought McClean was very poor when he came on, was not clever in possession, created very well and was generally wasteful. The lad needs a bit of guidance - hopefully wherever he ends up playing next year, it is with a strong manager who can help him return to the form of his first year in the EPL.

Forde, excellent, particularly on crosses. However, his distribution remains suspect.

Sledger is not the same player he was for us a couple of years ago- needs to get regular first team football.

Long, Coleman, McCarthy each developing into fine players. Those three along with the development of other young players such as Brady, Duffy, Hendrick, Wilson are the future.

England have serious threat down the wings, but never used it effectively. Its easy to see how they could be a very good team but seem to be disjointed and lacking direction. With the squad they have, they should be contending for honours.

Charlie Darwin

30/05/2013, 10:08 PM

I actually thought Forde's kicking from hand was very good. He has a very elegant style. His kicking from the ground is suspect though. Of all our keepers, I think Westwood is the best at kicking from the ground but Forde's short distance passing is the best.

SkStu

30/05/2013, 10:22 PM

Charlie Darwin

30/05/2013, 10:37 PM

It's interesting because, man for man, you'd say the English players were almost all more technically gifted than ours, plus their players are faster and better at making themselves available for passes. McGeady over the Arsenal wingers is possibly the only position we have a clear advantage in terms of ball retention, and he has notable deficiencies. That's why I think it's more cultural than an ability thing why British-style teams are so bad at retaining the ball. We cede the ball to teams that are no more technically gifted than our players are, and in many cases less so.

ArdeeBhoy

30/05/2013, 10:45 PM

Baku is the capital of Azerbaijan. Kerala is a communist state. Anything else?

I meant something interesting.
:rolleyes: About the Irish soccer team...

POS's argument basically goes like this: A great goalkeeper doesn't make mistakes. Forde hasn't made any mistakes so far, but he will in future. Therefore Forde is not a great goalkeeper.

Which on the basis of his club performances he will...
Clearly no-one wishes this on him. But he's no world-beater either.

Personally would like to see Westwood get back in there if he ever sorts his career out...

DannyInvincible

30/05/2013, 11:54 PM

I see England's friendly with Brazil has been suspended due to safety concerns over the Maracan�: http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22725420

The decision to suspend the game may yet be overturned, however.

Charlie Darwin

30/05/2013, 11:56 PM

I think it's just posturing. They've had months to suspend the game and haven't bothered until now. It'll go ahead.

tricky_colour

31/05/2013, 1:48 AM

Well we shall cross the mistaken bridge when we come to it.
I imagine the England team would be glad to see the back of him.

BonnieShels

31/05/2013, 9:14 AM

Who?

ENGLAND v BRAZIL going ahead.

paul_oshea

31/05/2013, 9:48 AM

It's also 'Forde hasn't made any mistakes yet but he will and when he does I'll be the wise owl who told you so'. It's like knowing England would have beaten us if it was for real, just like all those other teams we played away for real in the last 6 years, and just like England beat Ukraine and Macedonia and whoever else they failed to beat for real in the last few years.

We're ganging up on you Paul! Funny, you looked very happy last night :)

Its not that, its just what I see. I saw a couple of Milwall games also and definitely he could have done better in certain situations. I think some people are being a little over-confident, without seeing enough of him. They seem very reassured that we have found a capable successor to Given, after less than a handful of games, for a keeper who is approaching his mid 30s playing in the lower leagues of English football.

My argument is not that simple CD, its more obvious though. He is 33 years old and is playing for a team ranked low in the English Championship. He is definitely not a great goalkeeper. :)

I do also believe if England really needed to they would have beaten us, how many draws are played out in friendlies and then replicated in competitive games? They will qualify for Brazil, they will do what they need.

paul_oshea

31/05/2013, 10:08 AM

"We cede the ball to teams that are no more technically gifted than our players are, and in many cases less so."

CD, I agree with this completely and before the Austria game we had eejits coming on here saying they were all technically superior to all our players, which is horsesh1t really, bar Whelan id say the majority of our players are technically sound.

Interestingly today in the English papers, they are saying hodgson has brought them back to the dark ages, saying that the future is futile playing this type of archaic football. I think this game showed up the limitations of the English game/playing style, its woken them all up to realise that the football is awful and years behind every other country, especially for a country with the "best" league in the world, the national team still reverts to type. What's even more interesting and what has been shown up solely in this game according to the media that is, that England have no plan B, that hodgson can only play a brand of football based on 1 style, 1 principal. It was funny because its exactly what most of us think about how our team play football, and Trap has no plan B. The media here have woken up to the fact that is to the detriment of their game, but can't understand why Hodgson is persisting with it.

The resemblance to the Irish national team and its many, many detractors is uncanny.

Stuttgart88

31/05/2013, 11:19 AM

I don't think England played particularly well but I don't really agree with the "lines of 4" thing being touted by Lineker et al. I just don't think they're that good!

Rooney very clearly played wherever he could find space in the middle and final thirds, and was often an advanced playmaker rather than orthodox forward. Their full-backs got forward a lot, their wide players had pace and Lampard broke the line on many occasions.

If Lineker thinks England were rigid 442 I wonder what he thought of us!

Down the years England have always been shown up by more technical teams but often win because they're quite streetwise. They're good from set pieces and despite everyone's admiration for pretty football, the direct route often works. I remember a WC2010 warm-up game at Wembley against Mexico. Mexico passed them of the pitch - I mean really annihilated them - Vela missed 3 1-on-1s and Crouch scored twice from corners!

Crosby87

31/05/2013, 11:24 AM

POSH this is probably a silly Question but has the draw given you any hope at all that Ireland reach the World Cup? Or do you still think it's not happening definitely?

And on the topic of the England game being cancelled, how could they have the whole Tourney in Brazil if that one match had to be cancelled due to safety concerns? Nightmare.

Stuttgart88

31/05/2013, 11:37 AM

I think we can make a play-off still, though I wouldn't base my expectations on anything that happened at Wembley. Wembley taught us nothing we didn't know already. I think we could beat Austria away and I expect a draw, and I think Sweden at home could be a corker of a game that we could win with a bit of luck.

It'll also depend on the Sweden versus Austria results.

I think our chances of coming second will increase if we make fewer dumb mistakes at the back (that's two in two games now) and replace Whelan with a guy more comfortable on the ball. I don't think that will happen though.

If we did get to a play-off I think we'd be odds-against, but let's see.

btw, my mate is a logistics manager for a global media group (POSH - you know him, he works near you) and was in Brazil recently checking out the venues. He told me over lunch yesterday that the Maracana was nowhere near ready for a World Cup or even the ConFed Cup.

I don't think there was any speculation about the Maracana's safety at this point - so his comment was unsolicited.

Mad Moose

31/05/2013, 11:58 AM

In pictures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/gallery/2013/may/29/england-republic-of-ireland-in-pictures

BonnieShels

31/05/2013, 12:25 PM

In pictures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/gallery/2013/may/29/england-republic-of-ireland-in-pictures

Hornpipes on grass? What a waste of time.

paul_oshea

31/05/2013, 12:44 PM

Down the years England have always been shown up by more technical teams but often win because they're quite streetwise. They're good from set pieces and despite everyone's admiration for pretty football, the direct route often works. I remember a WC2010 warm-up game at Wembley against Mexico. Mexico passed them of the pitch - I mean really annihilated them - Vela missed 3 1-on-1s and Crouch scored twice from corners!

My only question is, how did you see that game?

POSH this is probably a silly Question but has the draw given you any hope at all that Ireland reach the World Cup? Or do you still think it's not happening definitely?

No. The main reason is because I want to go to brazil and when i want something it never happens. The stars collide and the world moves by my wants. Seriously though no I don't see it at all. We have seen false dawns before, but what we have seen more often is the same thing again, and people seeing them as new dawns/turn a page. We drew against England, so what? We keep drawing, when we need wins, nothing has changed. We aren't capable of doing enough to qualify, and that's to beat Sweden, and realistically to beat Austria away. If we got 6 points from the game, then yes we would have turned a page, and yes we would more than likely make the play-offs. But we won't because we simply aren't good enough.

He asked me stutts not you :P

They are more than a media company...

paul_oshea

31/05/2013, 12:45 PM

In pictures.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/gallery/2013/may/29/england-republic-of-ireland-in-pictures

Whats yer one from Eastenders doing in the Irish section.

Stuttgart88

31/05/2013, 1:20 PM

I got to see ENG vs MEX by way of bizarre invention called a telly.

Is anyone seeing this as a false dawn? I think everyone sees it as a disjointed but gutsy performance that was good enough to get a draw in a Wembley friendly, and that not losing to England when they expect to beat us is quite nice.

paul_oshea

31/05/2013, 2:16 PM

Thats the point you were watching England in the pre-warm up matches.

geysir

31/05/2013, 3:03 PM

Charlie Darwin

31/05/2013, 3:25 PM

I can just imagine Brian signing off a formal letter with a hashtag.

Grafter

31/05/2013, 6:43 PM

I'm lead to believe that Austria and Sweden are going head to head this friday, what is best result for us? Nil nil draw?

BonnieShels

31/05/2013, 9:20 PM

Austria 1-0 win.

Gives us a cushion. We will beat them in Vienna. We'll draw with Sweden in Lansdowne.

Stuttgart88

31/05/2013, 10:53 PM

Anything but a Sweden win for me.

tetsujin1979

31/05/2013, 11:28 PM

spent a few days in London and I'm only home in Limerick now. Managed to meet up with Stutts for lunch.

Didn't see any trouble around the game, but I swear I saw more policemen on this trip than on most other trips to England combined - including the Europa League Final in Manchester!

A friend of mine who lives in London had bought the tickets. We were in a mixed Irish/English section, with far more English than Irish, immediately to the left of the Irish section, separated by a tarp about 4 seats wide. When Shane Long scored, we were up celebrating and screaming, which was quickly followed by thought of "oh ****, we are seriously going to be killed". Fortunately, a steward had seen us, and another group of Irish fans about three rows down, and hauled us out, and we were given tickets to get into the Irish section instead. We asked him if anything had kicked off, and he said no, but they were taking no chances. I was half relieved when Lampard scored, because it meant there would be no trouble!

tetsujin1979

31/05/2013, 11:36 PM

Let's do it again (http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/soccer/nothing-friendly-about-this-meeting-of-equals-so-let-s-do-it-again-1.1410486?page=1)
Brian Kerr has been taking his happy pills, judging by his IT review of the game.

As usual he makes good points about the game but this time, sans chips.
surprised this (admittedly minor) mistake got past the editor

I was very pleased to see Trap put Jeff Hendricks into the midfield duel.
It's Hendrick. Could be a freudian slip about Christina?

dr_peepee

01/06/2013, 10:05 AM

Heard John Giles annoyance on OTB re the british media build to the game, implying that the Irish fans had a hand in the troubles at landowne in '95, or at least dual ownership of it. Thought no more of it until I read the peice on Teamtalk saying the troubles were partly feuled by Irish fans booing the English anthem... Shocking stuff!

AlaskaFox

01/06/2013, 11:04 AM

surprised this (admittedly minor) mistake got past the editor

It's Hendrick. Could be a freudian slip about Christina?

Kerr always liked a big pair up front.

Stuttgart88

01/06/2013, 11:05 AM

In today's piece he writes about some guy called Kendrick. Apparently Ciaran Clark has added an e to his surname too.

Most likely an editorial error, not Kerr's.

tetsujin1979

01/06/2013, 11:34 AM

Kendrick is in there twice, even claiming an assist against Poland. Disappointed they don't allow comments on the article.

<EDIT>

Strange, comments have been enabled for the first article, but disabled for his most recent work.

Drumcondra 69er

01/06/2013, 3:21 PM

My thoughts on Wembley game and London trip.....

http://afalsefirstxi.blogspot.ie/2013/06/28-years-later.html

ArdeeBhoy

02/06/2013, 10:14 PM

Great piece, TC.

CraftyToePoke

03/06/2013, 12:41 AM

A lovely read.

Grafter

03/06/2013, 2:30 PM

Couldn't find it online but Rod Liddle was fairly scathing of Ireland (as well as England) in uk version of the Sunday Times yesterday....

A sample of it was his reaction to Ireland goal... basically referring to Shane Long as a mediocre EPL striker who can't get a game....

Far contrast to a newsreport on RTE Saturday referring to Long's captaincy of Ire against Georgia... Tony O' Donahogue saying that Long has a "tremendous" season with West Brom....:rolleyes:

ArdeeBhoy

03/06/2013, 2:54 PM

Rod Liddle is a bitter twisted little englander. Despite some Scottish heritage.
Doesn't really have much sensible to say on the topic...

Charlie Darwin

03/06/2013, 7:50 PM

Deckydee

03/02/2014, 2:16 PM

http://www.bbc.com/sport/0/football/26014635

TheOneWhoKnocks

03/02/2014, 3:18 PM

The truth is probably somewhere in the middle. Long is capable of wonderful goals like in Wembley but I think he's more often guilty of the woeful finishing he showed on Sunday.

His goalscoring record is just fine for the level he is playing at; something like one in three starts. If he was one of those strikers who just scores goals but offers nothing else, it would present more of an issue.

I don't understand the part about not getting a game. He starts the vast majority of games.

I agree that the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Liddle is known for his hyperbole. The man is not subtle.