England V Republic of Ireland - Wednesday, 29th May 2013 - Friendly

[tricky_colour]

Scousers don't show up at Millwall games and Millwall don't show up at Scouse games ?

OR


Scousers don't show up at Liverpool or Everton games and Milwall don't show up at the New Den ?

I read it as they don't turn up at England games. A lot of Millwall might be barred.

[tricky_colour]

Why has Green not got the nod?

Maybe trap finally bowed to ll the negative comments bout him on here!!!

[tricky_colour]

Wonder if this will be on TV in the states. doubtful i guess.

On in the UK were I am, one of the rare chances I get to watch them on TV as opposed to a stream which is nice.

Could possibly watch the match in a local pub but that might not be too wise especially after recent events in Woolwich.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why would 'Woolwich' be an issue?

[gastric]

Hopefully times have changed, but a good historical account of that infamous night in 95.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/it-was-like-beirut-up-there-29298528.html

[Stuttgart88]

Was there fighting on the South Terrace? And was GSTQ loudly booed? It was definitely booed, but only from a section of the South Terrace.

[jbyrne]

Was there fighting on the South Terrace? And was GSTQ loudly booed? It was definitely booed, but only from a section of the South Terrace.

the booing of their anthem was accross most of the stadium from my memory i'm afraid. some of our fans didnt cover themselves in glory that night. from a good 30 mins before ko there was anti english stuff coming from where i was standing on the south terrace.

the biggest threat i faced was from this Irish moron with an "up the pope" scarf. he and his mates were attempting to start the usual biggoted tripe that a certain element of our support likes to indulge itself in. when i told them that they were as bad as those rioting english fans that night he went to punch me and had to be restrained.

[Stuttgart88]

I was on the north terrace and heard nothing coming from north end. The 1990 game was far worse from our fans. That was pure poison.

[jbyrne]

I was on the north terrace and heard nothing coming from north end. The 1990 game was far worse from our fans. That was pure poison.

maybe it was mainly the south terrace. its recorded here at about 45 secs http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oN-voEwlrko

am going on wednesday and really hope that the morons among our supporters keep their pathetic songs and chants to themselves.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Why? What happened in 1990?
And that video is 1995...

Booing that dirge is all the Scots would do, whilst any 'pathetic songs and chants' is down to the experience of the individual as to how they view our neighbours in any political perspective. Trust me with that shower, 95% of any negativity won't be coming from Irish people...


Any here's yet another link featuring a one time foot.ie stalwart.
http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/tickets-tension-and-songs-on-night-that-changed-everything-29297345.html

[Bungle]

Neither Everton or Liverpool have any type of real presence within the English support. To be fair, because Liverpool is such an immigrant city (predominantly Irish and certainly a majority Catholic city), as can happen in such cities, there would be a significant but vocal minority that are drawn to the Orange Order/Conservative party/BNP and in extreme situations the offshoot of this would be elements being drawn to the UVF or Loyalist groups, as well as the EDL. Other scousers used to travel with England back in the 70s/80s knowing that when the inevitable riots kicked off in European cities, there were plenty of shops that could be robbed.

I was living in Liverpool in 1988 and you could just as easily have been in Dublin. In all of the pubs around the city, the Scousers were cheering for Ireland. Of course, that was at the height of Maggie's tenure in office, so your average Scouser didn't feel too English, but I'm sure it hasn't changed all that much since, despite the city's gentrification.

I went to a few games at the Old Den in the 80s when I lived in London and it was one menacing place :) The Millwall fans used to sing their version of the Teddy Bears picnic song to away fans that was pure evil.

[ArdeeBhoy]

The biggest annual Orange march in England now takes place in Southport on the fringes of Merseyside, I believe.

[peadar1987]

Why would 'Woolwich' be an issue?

Because there's a lot of anti-not-English feeling knocking around after it, lots of attacks on Muslims, and the people who attack random Muslims in revenge for an attack by specific Muslims are the kind of idiots who associate all Irish people with the IRA.

[Noelys Guitar]

Very muted build up to this game and I would be very surprised if there is any trouble. England have been out of the top 10 teams in the world since around 1991. 1996 Euro semi's had a lot to do with home advantage. They might just be about to improve but they might not. We are going to play 4-5-1 with Long upfront so I am going for a boring 1-1

[bennocelt]

the booing of their anthem was accross most of the stadium from my memory i'm afraid. some of our fans didnt cover themselves in glory that night. from a good 30 mins before ko there was anti english stuff coming from where i was standing on the south terrace.

the biggest threat i faced was from this Irish moron with an "up the pope" scarf. he and his mates were attempting to start the usual biggoted tripe that a certain element of our support likes to indulge itself in. when i told them that they were as bad as those rioting english fans that night he went to punch me and had to be restrained.

Suppose they should have clapped?

[jbyrne]

England have been out of the top 10 teams in the world since around 1991.

currently ranked 7th

[ArdeeBhoy]

Unless there's a large presence of Irish muslims at the game, even those dimwits can tell the difference, surely...

[Fixer82]

currently ranked 7th

ha ha. no reply to that

[jbyrne]

Suppose they should have clapped?

it was a sporting occasion and they should have just kept silent and then sang our own anthem louder than ever. instead we let ourselves down with pathetic booing and moronic sectarian singing

[ArdeeBhoy]

Perhaps they just noticed the hostile atmosphere coming from our esteemed visitors :rolleyes: and decided to respond in kind...

[tetsujin1979]

not sure if this has been posted in the thread yet, but if you know the block number on your ticket, you can see the view you're going to have on Wednesday night.
I'm going to be enjoying this particular vista: http://www.wembleystadium.com/TheStadium/ViewFromYourSeat#seat:526|event:sports

[peadar1987]

Unless there's a large presence of Irish muslims at the game, even those dimwits can tell the difference, surely...

It's not that they can't tell the difference, it's that they don't care. They're a very special class of moron who divide the world into "English" and "not English". And as an English person was recently killed by (in their eyes) a non-English person, they'll be out looking for revenge against the non-English.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Ha, too true, sadly, too true.

[Irwin3]

Very muted build up to this game and I would be very surprised if there is any trouble. England have been out of the top 10 teams in the world since around 1991. 1996 Euro semi's had a lot to do with home advantage. They might just be about to improve but they might not. We are going to play 4-5-1 with Long upfront so I am going for a boring 1-1

Why the need to re-write history. This kind of pettiness is unnecessary. Here is where England finished in the last 4 world cups:

1998 - 9th
2002 - 6th
2006 - 7th
2010 - 13th

So, in competition it would be fair to say they were not in the top 10 in the world since 2008 (didn't qualify for Euro's), not 1991.

[Noelys Guitar]

currently ranked 7th

FIFA rankings are a joke. Are they better or have they been consistently better than Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Portugal groor for that matter Greece or Denmark since 1900 world Cup?. The answer is no. They have not won a tournament for almost 50 years. Poor team throughout the 1970''s post Mexico World Cup. Not much better throughout the 1980's. Currently second in a group behind Montenegro with no guarantee they will even qualify for 2014.

[Noelys Guitar]

Why the need to re-write history. This kind of pettiness is unnecessary. Here is where England finished in the last 4 world cups:

1998 - 9th
2002 - 6th
2006 - 7th
2010 - 13th

So, in competition it would be fair to say they were not in the top 10 in the world since 2008 (didn't qualify for Euro's), not 1991.

England had a top team at the 1970's World Cup (better than 1966 team IMO). But have never matched that side in over 40 years. The South Americans especially do not take them seriously.

[jbyrne]

FIFA rankings are a joke. Are they better or have they been consistently better than Brazil, Argentina, Germany, Italy, Spain, France, Holland, Portugal groor for that matter Greece or Denmark since 1900 world Cup?. The answer is no. They have not won a tournament for almost 50 years. Poor team throughout the 1970''s post Mexico World Cup. Not much better throughout the 1980's. Currently second in a group behind Montenegro with no guarantee they will even qualify for 2014.

all those teams have gone through dodgy patches since 1990. 7th is probably a bit generous at the moment but they are always deservedly hovering aound 8th to 12th best in the world imo.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Past games.
http://balls.ie/football/ireland-vs-england-photos/

[pineapple stu]

FIFA rankings are a joke.
In fairness, you can't claim that England have been out of the top ten for the past 20 years and then make up your own rankings.

England haven't won anything in years obviously, but in fairness to them, they're very consistent. To say they've not been top ten in the world since 1991 is groundless. They clearly have been.

[Noelys Guitar]

In fairness, you can't claim that England have been out of the top ten for the past 20 years and then make up your own rankings.

England haven't won anything in years obviously, but in fairness to them, they're very consistent. To say they've not been top ten in the world since 1991 is groundless. They clearly have been.

They failed to Qualify for WC 94 and Euro 2008. One semi final appearance in all that time (91 to present) and that was on home soil. And currently they are in second place to Montenegro for 2014 qualifying. They are in the ranks of the also rans not the winners.

[Bungle]

England are probably a top 8-10 team in the world and have been on the whole for the last 20 years. The big problem with England is that they believe that they are a top 3-4 team that has a divine right to win trophies. To be fair, in 2006, they had a high number of really top players, but most years, they have maybe two really top tier players.

The English have been unlucky at various tournaments going out on penalties in that time. However, this highlights that when push comes to shove, they don't have the bottle or quality to beat the very best. A relatively poor German team can get to a World Cup final (2002). A very good England team normally goes out on penalties in the quarter final or in a very good year a semi final. That is the difference.

I actually would say that this current England team is the poorest England team in years. Their best player (Gerrard) is not the player he was, their next best player (Rooney) never really performs for them and their great hope (Wilshere) is always injured. Lampard is a class player but he never really has shone with Gerrard. Hart was showing glimpses of being a top tier goalie last year, but he's had a poor season. Johnson is a kamikaze defender who would be eaten alive by the very best international teams. Walcott is a talented headless chicken, while the likes of Milner, Barry and Lescott are nothing more than decent players. I do like Cahill as a centre half and I really rate Cole and Baines to be fair though. The fact that they have by their standards a relatively poor team on paper and a coach that is mediocre might actually work to their advantage in Brazil if they get there.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Think they will get to Brazil. FIFA will want them there, like a certain Gallic team, as we know to our cost...
And they could win fairly easily If they play to their potential on Weds. As we're only too aware of our side's many current deficiencies!

Obviously am hoping they don't...

[Crosby87]

BBC Preview:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/22677284

[pineapple stu]

They failed to Qualify for WC 94 and Euro 2008. One semi final appearance in all that time (91 to present) and that was on home soil. And currently they are in second place to Montenegro for 2014 qualifying. They are in the ranks of the also rans not the winners.
You can be in the top 10 and not be in the "winners"; very few nations win stuff.

They are very consistent and the idea that they've not been top ten for 20 years is nonsense.

[ArdeeBhoy]

They usually make Quarter-Finals and then thankfully crash out...

[pineapple stu]

For what it's worth, if you go back through the last five World Cups (1994 to 2010), and award points based on finishing as follows, for example -


Winner 10
R-up 8
Third 6
Fourth 4
Q/F 3
2nd rd 2
Groups 1

- then England are actually in the top ten despite not having qualified for 1994 -


Nation Pts Rank
Brazil 34 1
Germany 26 2
Italy 24 3
France 20 4
Spain 19 5
Holland 17 6
Ar'tina 12 7
England 10 8
Mexico 10 8
Sweden 10 8

Yes, they underachieve. Yes, their national team is no way a reflection of the strength of their domestic league. And yes, the league relies more on money than technique. But there's no rational means of ranking teams that results in the conclusion that England have not been a top-ten team since 1991.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Probably about right. Anyway, they can be no.1 for all we care. Just as long as they never win anything...

[Noelys Guitar]

For what it's worth, if you go back through the last five World Cups (1994 to 2010), and award points based on finishing as follows, for example -


Winner 10
R-up 8
Third 6
Fourth 4
Q/F 3
2nd rd 2
Groups 1

- then England are actually in the top ten despite not having qualified for 1994 -


Nation Pts Rank
Brazil 34 1
Germany 26 2
Italy 24 3
France 20 4
Spain 19 5
Holland 17 6
Ar'tina 12 7
England 10 8
Mexico 10 8
Sweden 10 8

Yes, they underachieve. Yes, their national team is no way a reflection of the strength of their domestic league. And yes, the league relies more on money than technique. But there's no rational means of ranking teams that results in the conclusion that England have not been a top-ten team since 1991.

It is not just that. It is the amount of times they get beaten by sides like Romania and Sweden in crucial championship games. These games are never mentioned. There have been times since 1970 when all it would have taken (Euro 92 for example) was a single minded, hardnosed, tactically astute manager for England to have triumphed. But the FA have always (after Revie) chosen too many PR merchants.

[peadar1987]

For what it's worth, if you go back through the last five World Cups (1994 to 2010), and award points based on finishing as follows, for example -


Winner 10
R-up 8
Third 6
Fourth 4
Q/F 3
2nd rd 2
Groups 1

- then England are actually in the top ten despite not having qualified for 1994 -


Nation Pts Rank
Brazil 34 1
Germany 26 2
Italy 24 3
France 20 4
Spain 19 5
Holland 17 6
Ar'tina 12 7
England 10 8
Mexico 10 8
Sweden 10 8

Yes, they underachieve. Yes, their national team is no way a reflection of the strength of their domestic league. And yes, the league relies more on money than technique. But there's no rational means of ranking teams that results in the conclusion that England have not been a top-ten team since 1991.


Well that's over a long period of time, averaged out. I'd say England generally hover around the lower reaches of the top ten, but there are often teams that are better than them for short periods: Bulgaria in the early 1990s, Croatia on and off, Portugal on a regular basis, Czech Republic occasionally, even that Turkish side that did very well a while back...



The big problem with England is that they believe that they are a top 3-4 team that has a divine right to win trophies.


Every single time. And even on the rare occasions that they admit they don't have a world class team (last year's Euros, for example) it's always with the implication that:
a)They should have a world class team, by rights, because Rule Britannia and all that.
b)Their team is not world class, not because English people aren't superior in every way to Johnny Foreigner, but because it's someone else's fault. Preferably someone foreign, like Maradona, Capello, or the Mexican water suppliers, but if that can't be made to wash, a rogue English scapegoat can be found, like McClaren, Southgate, Batty or Beckham.

And then they have the nerve to claim that the British (and by that they invariably mean the English) are one of the most modest and self-effacing nations in the world.

[pineapple stu]

Well that's over a long period of time, averaged out. I'd say England generally hover around the lower reaches of the top ten, but there are often teams that are better than them for short periods: Bulgaria in the early 1990s, Croatia on and off, Portugal on a regular basis, Czech Republic occasionally, even that Turkish side that did very well a while back...
Absolutely agree. But Noelys comment was -


England have been out of the top 10 teams in the world since around 1991
Which is clearly nonsense.

[Bungle]

Am I the only one who likes England to do well, up until about the quarter finals?!! I'm trying to figure out if it's my cruel desire to see them lose dramatically on penalties or my desire for them to do reasonably well as a form of guilt for the fact that most English are sound and actually want us to do well :)

[CraftyToePoke]

I'm trying to figure out if it's my cruel desire to see them lose dramatically on penalties or my desire for them to do reasonably well as a form of guilt for the fact that most English are sound and actually want us to do well :)

Having played well, in injury time, to a penalty, which was clearly a dive ?

[Stuttgart88]

The day they get knocked out of a tournament is always one of the happiest of the year for me. I only really properly enjoy a tournament once they're out. It's like having a day off but knowing you've got to run an inconvenient errand mid-afternoon. It's great to be off, but you can only properly enjoy it once you're free to do what you want.

[CraftyToePoke]

The day they get knocked out of a tournament is always one of the happiest of the year for me. I only really properly enjoy a tournament once they're out. It's like having a day off but knowing you've got to run an inconvenient errand mid-afternoon. It's great to be off, but you can only properly enjoy it once you're free to do what you want.


Figo & Co giving them a 2-0 head start before picking them off 2-3 was a personal favourite. I laughed at that like they would laugh at Benny Hill on a banana skin.

[Stuttgart88]

France beating them 2-1 when England were 1 up on 89 minutes was particularly pleasing too.

[SkStu]

Having played well, in injury time, to a penalty, which was clearly a dive ?

prefer the own goal option myself... and theres a lot to be said for the traditional goalkeeping blunder!

[tricky_colour]

Why would 'Woolwich' be an issue?

Well there might be a more nationalistic fervour about and certain people might take offence to someone cheering
when England concede a goal.

[Noelys Guitar]

Absolutely agree. But Noelys comment was -


Which is clearly nonsense.

Why is it clearly nonsense? You have England 8th best FFS at the WC over that period. Their record at the Euros is even worse. They are not and have not been a top 10 team for some time. You have never seen a great English team. I have.

[Charlie Darwin]

Where can we see this top ten, Noely?

[Noelys Guitar]

The top ten is the TOP TEN. Not a UCD opinion of what the TOP 10 should be. Brazil 1970 just truly magic on so may levels. England competed with the greatest team I have ever seen. England never recovered