Gaa 2013

[ArdeeBhoy]

http://balls.ie/gaa/fantastic-letter-to-the-irish-times-after-dublins-win-over-kilkenny/

[ArdeeBhoy]

Are the provincial championships really that important? I know it's a trophy and all, but outside of Munster is the rivalry between the counties that intense?
It is in Leinster & Ulster...


Personally, I'd be in favour of splitting into the five historic provinces of Ireland and have Meath play with themselves every year.

Once maybe. Now just better, they're humiliated annually by all & sundry...

[Real ale Madrid]

I completely disagree with the All-Ireland being 2 tiers in both sports. Hurling has been destroyed somewhat and only made the bigger counties better. Football is on the same trajectory and in fact the change will be quickened by the addition of a second tier. Awful idea.



Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it an awful idea. How in the name of God has hurling been destroyed by adding tiers to it? All that has happenened is that your Tyrone's and Mayo's now have a championship to play in. It has made virtually no difference whatsoever to the status quo in hurling. None.

In football 2 tiers would mean that imo all 33 football teams would start each year in with a chance of an all Ireland title or at the very least a good run.

I cannot understand why creating two divisions in the football championship would be bad for the game. It works in virtually every other sport in the world. But it would be awful for GAA ?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sounds like a runner, for at least a trial period...

[BonnieShels]

Just because you disagree with it doesn't make it an awful idea. How in the name of God has hurling been destroyed by adding tiers to it? All that has happenened is that your Tyrone's and Mayo's now have a championship to play in. It has made virtually no difference whatsoever to the status quo in hurling. None.

In football 2 tiers would mean that imo all 33 football teams would start each year in with a chance of an all Ireland title or at the very least a good run.

I cannot understand why creating two divisions in the football championship would be bad for the game. It works in virtually every other sport in the world. But it would be awful for GAA ?

In hurling it has allowed the the Big-3 a second bite at the cherry which inevitably means that those once-off shocks will be wiped away come the semi-final stage. That was what I meant about hurling "being destroyed".

If hurling had been run with a similar qualifying format to football we would see more teams in the main championship more often and more opportunities for middling teams to face each other.

What has happened is that a clear definable "Top-tier" has formed with a chasm between them and the rest. A chasm that will never be breached with the way hurling is dealt with.

Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny will always be dominant and that will never change. However the chances of a period like the 1990's where we had 6 different winners and 8 different finalists in 10 years ever happening again is impossible to see with the current system in place.

Significant investment in Dublin hurling is what got it to where it is. But no other "weak" county could hope to achieve that sort of result.


In football there's always scope for a county to come good. I mean look at Armagh and Donegal. They would have been conceivably been "weaker counties" at some stage in the fairly recent past.

Also with the uproar of the Offaly and Wicklow defeats at the hands of Tyrone and Armagh respectively why was there no uproar about Kildare playing in the Senior Championship afte Dublin whipped them for the second match in succession?

It's all too easy to complain about having sub-standard teams in the championship and as a Munster man I'm sure you're all too aware at the gash nature of your provincial championship as a result but again the issue at hand here is the investment in the game and what teams want to achieve?

Would Meath (who were Div 3 don't forget this season) who reached the All-Ireland semi in 2009, Wexford (who reached a semi in 2008) or Fermanagh in 2004 prefer that or to have won some lowly lower-tier title that will have no real cache and let's be honest will not help them in the long run.

I had developed a pretty comprehensive championship structure in 2009 but it's hidden deep in the bowels of my gmail. I'll root it out.

[Real ale Madrid]

In hurling it has allowed the the Big-3 a second bite at the cherry which inevitably means that those once-off shocks will be wiped away come the semi-final stage. That was what I meant about hurling "being destroyed".


As I said how has the introduction of tiers to the hurling championship destroyed it? I think its the back door system you have an issue with.



If hurling had been run with a similar qualifying format to football we would see more teams in the main championship more often and more opportunities for middling teams to face each other.

What has happened is that a clear definable "Top-tier" has formed with a chasm between them and the rest. A chasm that will never be breached with the way hurling is dealt with.

Cork, Tipp and Kilkenny will always be dominant and that will never change. However the chances of a period like the 1990's where we had 6 different winners and 8 different finalists in 10 years ever happening again is impossible to see with the current system in place.

Significant investment in Dublin hurling is what got it to where it is. But no other "weak" county could hope to achieve that sort of result.


So the back door is bad because it allows the bigger counties a second bit of the cherry - but it is good because it allows the middling teams to face each other more often ? You can't please everyone but I'm old fashioned - I like teams to EARN the right to play big games. Not just get it handed to them.

The Hurling championship has been pretty good this year it will be interesting to see if it continues. Limerick and Dublin are in provincial finals - both playing in a lower tier of the league - hasn't done them any harm either.



In football there's always scope for a county to come good. I mean look at Armagh and Donegal. They would have been conceivably been "weaker counties" at some stage in the fairly recent past.


Correct - Under a two tier system they would be 2 years from an all ireland final instead of the one they are now. Does any Div.4 team have a realistic shot at an all ireland in 1 year ? The momentum of winning an important* "championship" could be significant also.



Also with the uproar of the Offaly and Wicklow defeats at the hands of Tyrone and Armagh respectively why was there no uproar about Kildare playing in the Senior Championship afte Dublin whipped them for the second match in succession?


To be fair - comparing Kildare with the Wicklow and Offaly games is not fair surely - there is difference between conceding 15 points in a row and what happened at Croker on Sunday.



It's all too easy to complain about having sub-standard teams in the championship and as a Munster man I'm sure you're all too aware at the gash nature of your provincial championship as a result but again the issue at hand here is the investment in the game and what teams want to achieve?

Would Meath (who were Div 3 don't forget this season) who reached the All-Ireland semi in 2009, Wexford (who reached a semi in 2008) or Fermanagh in 2004 prefer that or to have won some lowly lower-tier title that will have no real cache and let's be honest will not help them in the long run.


The key issue for me is not investment - its making a second tier an "important" competition. That will be a huge challenge.

Does the intermediate hurler or footballer devalue his county medal just because he doesn't play with a senior team. The whole of the GAA is modeled so that teams of comparable ability play against one another - except for the senior championships at inter county level

Nothing rational holds the championship structure together except tradition imo.

*obviously the question is how important is it?

[culloty82]

If anything, the problem with hurling is that too many counties have been promoted into the Liam McCarthy in recent years - the Christy Ring Cup was a vibrant competition in the first few years, but now with Westmeath, Carlow, London and Down promoted, the only second-tier county remaining is Kerry, who would be massacred if they returned to Munster. The senior championship should have a base level of ten counties - the five Munster teams plus Kilkenny, Dublin, Galway, Wexford and Offaly - using the qualifiers and relegation playoffs, the bottom side would be replaced by the winners of a new second-tier involving the counties mentioned in the first sentence, along with Laois and Antrim.

[NeverFeltBetter]

When they tried to introduce relegation play-offs to the championship, too many counties, especially Antrim and Clare as I recall, made a stink for it to be palatable to the higher-ups, and it was quietly dropped.

[geysir]

In football there's always scope for a county to come good. I mean look at Armagh and Donegal. They would have been conceivably been "weaker counties" at some stage in the fairly recent past.
You are talking about football?
I don't remember the time when Donegal or Armagh would have been regarded as a weaker county. Both those teams have been in the top half for decades.

Hurling has a wider chasm in quality than football.
In recent times we saw a mid level div 4 Wicklow beat Kildare in the LSFC and Down in the qualifiers. When in hurling would you ever see a div 4 county beat a top tier team?
I don't mind the football system as it is, provincial championships, open draw qualifiers, all merging at the 1/4 final stage. It has endured a passage of time with just a bit of fine tuning, that's a sign that it's working.
I don't care that much about hurling to have an opinion about the set up.

[Real ale Madrid]

Football Qualifier Round 3 and 4 Draws

Galway / Armagh v Cork
Wexford / Laois v Loser Donegal / Monaghan
Kildare / Tyrone v Meath
Derry / Cavan v Loser London / Mayo

If Derry play London in the 4th round will it be known as the London/Derry game or just the Derry game?

[BonnieShels]

Football Qualifier Round 3 and 4 Draws

Galway / Armagh v Cork
Wexford / Laois v Loser Donegal / Monaghan
Kildare / Tyrone v Meath
Derry / Cavan v Loser London / Mayo

If Derry play London in the 4th round will it be known as the London/Derry game or just the Derry game?

That was gonna be my joke. Boo.

Hmmm... Although that game is going to be away for London as that's how it was drawn, if they had been drawn first (and assuming thye lose to Mayo) would it have been played in Ruislip as this is the All-Ireland Series and not the Connacht Championship which is what prevented them from playing Leitrim in Ruislip in the last round?

[Real ale Madrid]

That was gonna be my joke. Boo.

Hmmm... Although that game is going to be away for London as that's how it was drawn, if they had been drawn first (and assuming thye lose to Mayo) would it have been played in Ruislip as this is the All-Ireland Series and not the Connacht Championship which is what prevented them from playing Leitrim in Ruislip in the last round?

4th round games are at neutral venues.

[BonnieShels]

4th round games are at neutral venues.
Duh. Dang. Cheers.

But either way does anyone know the answer say if they were drawn at home in the 3rd round where they would play or does the Connacht rule continue?

[shakermaker1982]

Tyrone-Meath will be tasty.

[BonnieShels]

AS it stands I can see the following happen:

Galway v Armagh
Wexford v Laois
Kildare v Tyrone
Derry v Cavan

Armagh v Cork
Wexford v Monaghan
Tyrone v Meath
Derry v London

QF1: Armagh v Kerry
QF2: Wexford v Dublin
QF3: Tyrone v Donegal
QF4: Derry v Mayo

SF1: Mayo v Donegal
SF2: Dublin v Armagh

F: Dublin v Mayo

W: Dublin

[Real ale Madrid]

Its an open draw for the QF's anyway so its impossible to know who from the qualifiers will play whom.

But if you think Armagh will beat Cork and then Kerry I want some of what you are smoking.

As it stands I expect the 4 to emerge from the qualifiers to be Cork, Monaghan, Tyrone, and Derry and I don't expect any of that 4 to trouble the 4 expected provincial champions so Dubin v Kerry and Donegal v Mayo in the semis. Latest odds:
Dublin 15/8
Kerry 7/2
Donegal 4/1
Mayo 4/1
Cork 10/1
Tyrone 25/1

From a punting perspective Donegal at 4/1 to retain the all Ireland seems a little on the long side.

[BonnieShels]

I know it's open draw. But I was guessing. Guessing I say.

Armagh and Kerry have previous so I reckon that that's how it would transpire should they meet. I have an inkling. An inking I say.

Stop getting all serious.

I think no matter who comes through the Qualifiers and into the QF it's gonna be a serious end to this championship.

[Real ale Madrid]

Stop getting all serious.


Sorry! London for the AI!

[BonnieShels]

Sorry! London for the AI!

Better!

[BonnieShels]

Its an open draw for the QF's anyway so its impossible to know who from the qualifiers will play whom.

But if you think Armagh will beat Cork and then Kerry I want some of what you are smoking.



Actually would you have said that Donegal would beat Cork and Kerry last year on the way to the AI?

I'm not for one second remotely comparing the quality of that Donegal team with Armagh but...

[geysir]

Already Monaghan have lost the Ulster final and are ploughing through the qualifiers :rolleyes:
I can't remember the last time Donegal beat Monaghan in the championship. I don't know what voodoo we have but Donegal are just powerless when faced with it.


Last week I listened to the last 10 minutes of Roscommon v Tyrone on Shannonside, the commentator, a Spike Milligan on acid, kept shouting that 'Roscommon are dying with their boots on' ..... 'Roscommon are dying with their boots on' ...... 'Roscommon are dying with their boots on' with the odd reference to putting the tractor pedal to the floor.
In between those shouts of defiance, I gathered that Roscommon were coughing up possession, missing point chances and giving away fouls.

[swinfordfc]

The 6 "big" teams left in the last 12 and more than likely they will be in the last 8 .... season getting serious the first weekend in August!

[swinfordfc]

AS it stands I can see the following happen:

Galway v Armagh
Wexford v Laois
Kildare v Tyrone
Derry v Cavan

Armagh v Cork
Wexford v Monaghan
Tyrone v Meath
Derry v London

QF1: Armagh v Kerry
QF2: Wexford v Dublin
QF3: Tyrone v Donegal
QF4: Derry v Mayo

SF1: Mayo v Donegal
SF2: Dublin v Armagh

F: Dublin v Mayo

W: Dublin

Three of the 4th round wrong Armagh, Wexford and Derry - you need lessons :)

[BonnieShels]

Three of the 4th round wrong Armagh, Wexford and Derry - you need lessons :)

Unbelievable set of results yesterday. Let's re-evaluate...

EDIT: What's the point? Clearly this is a mental Championship.

[BonnieShels]

I give up.

Monaghan were brilliant. Donegal look knackered.

[geysir]

We are the champions.
Triple crown actually, minor and ladies senior cups already in the creaky, rust infected cabinet.

[swinfordfc]

This is going to be fun - should Donegal, Cork and Tyrone come through next weekend, there is going to be some Q Finals now. I have to admit the big '6' is now a 7! ...... Fair play Monaghan .... some physical strength ..... the full forward was class as was the no 7!

[Real ale Madrid]

Was it just me or did Monaghan look a little too pumped up? Unfair ?

[geysir]

This is going to be fun - should Donegal, Cork and Tyrone come through next weekend, there is going to be some Q Finals now. I have to admit the big '6' is now a 7! ...... Fair play Monaghan .... some physical strength ..... the full forward was class as was the no 7!
Nr 7 ? The one and only Dessie Mone, sweeper supreme today, intelligent positioning, good blocking, smart tackling, always available to receive the pass and drive forward, he does get upset when his face is touched.

[swinfordfc]

Nr 7 ? The one and only Dessie Mone, sweeper supreme today, intelligent positioning, good blocking, smart tackling, always available to receive the pass and drive forward, he does get upset when his face is touched.

Inside knowledge there :)

[swinfordfc]

Was it just me or did Monaghan look a little too pumped up? Unfair ?

They Donegalled donegal in fairest - fair play to them .....

[ArdeeBhoy]

Already Monaghan have lost the Ulster final and are ploughing through the qualifiers :rolleyes:
I can't remember the last time Donegal beat Monaghan in the championship. I don't know what voodoo we have but Donegal are just powerless when faced with it.
Hope you put some money on it...
Good on the Mons. :rolleyes:
Donegal been getting too big for their boots IMO.

[BonnieShels]

Triple header set for Croker next Saturday.

London v Cavan, 3pm
Cork v Galway, 5pm
Meath v Tyrone, 7pm

Cracking day out.

Meanwhile Laois and Donegal will battle it out in Carrick-on-Shannon at 5pm

[nigel-harps1954]

Donegal were p!sh. I don't watch much GAA these days, but it was simply a superb Monaghan performance against a completely flat and terrible Donegal.

Can't see Monaghan getting much further really, but time will tell. Laois could spring a surprise against Donegal next week unless things dramatically chance for Jim and co.

The hundreds of excuses I'm hearing up here are laughable. Most people blaming the referee, even though I thought the ref handled things very well for the most part.

The big complaint now, is that Carrick-on-shannon holds little more than 9,000 people, and the Donegal county board have come out and said Donegal would fill it alone, and they should change the venue and all this crap.
Most of the bandwagoners are already complaining that Jim McGuinness has lost it..

[geysir]

Donegal were p!sh. I don't watch much GAA these days, but it was simply a superb Monaghan performance against a completely flat and terrible Donegal.

Can't see Monaghan getting much further really, but time will tell. Laois could spring a surprise against Donegal next week unless things dramatically chance for Jim and co.

The hundreds of excuses I'm hearing up here are laughable. Most people blaming the referee, even though I thought the ref handled things very well for the most part.

The big complaint now, is that Carrick-on-shannon holds little more than 9,000 people, and the Donegal county board have come out and said Donegal would fill it alone, and they should change the venue and all this crap.
Most of the bandwagoners are already complaining that Jim McGuinness has lost it..
"Uneasy lies the head that wears a crown"

[junglegym]

Sat. August 03rd @ Croke Park:
Monaghan vs Tyrone @ 5pm
Dublin vs Cork @ 7pm.

Sun.August 04th @ Croke Park :
Kerry vs Cavan @ 2pm.
Mayo vs Donegal @ 4pm.

[shakermaker1982]

Looking forward to Sunday.

Hopefully revenge is on the cards for last September.

3 tight games to call & a walkover for Kerry.

[nigel-harps1954]

Monaghan, Dublin, Kerry, Donegal.

[swinfordfc]

Tyrone, Dublin, Kerry and Mayo

[junglegym]

I missed the Tyrone game but heard it was poor, Mayo and the Dubs were very impressive and Kerry only played for half a game again so on that performance they wont threaten Dublin . The old saying " you need to lose one before winning one" might well apply to Mayo who are now favourites to lift Sam this year.

[geysir]

The Dubs in particular looked pristine against a competitive Cork, they're giving good value to their Eur12m sponsors. Donegal have been fatally wounded since the Ulster final, Mayo were all over them. The Monaghan Tyrone game was by far the closest but when Tyrone went 2 points up with 5 minutes to go, you just knew it was curtains, like trying to take a bone away from a pack of hungry rotweillers. For Monaghan, Finlay an important player was way off the pace, Clerkin improved things when he came on in the first half but Tyrone had stolen about 8 points by then, it turned in a game of 'what ifs' for Monaghan.
Kerry had an easy game, they can't be judged on that game, we'll have to wait until they meet the Dubs to see what they're about this year.
Of all the semi finalists, Tyrone look the weakest.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Clearly you've probably seen this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Ro9f5pmhM

[BonnieShels]

The old saying " you need to lose one before winning one" might well apply to Mayo who are now favourites to lift Sam this year.

Or you need to lose six befre you win another...

[BonnieShels]

Clearly you've probably seen this...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Ro9f5pmhM

I'm guessing that's Mr Brolly's s**t-attack?

[geysir]

Or you need to lose six befre you win another...
If Mayo don't win this one, then we can say Mayo are the exception to the adage, ...... any adage.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Click on the link Bonnie, not so hard...
;)

[bluemovie]

Very little said about Eamon McGee's stamp - as nasty a thing as you'd ever see in GAA. Will he just miss a league match over it? Had Paul Galvin done it, they'd have cleared the schedules on the 9 o'clock news, Morning Ireland, Joe Duffy, every local paper in the country. The powers that be decided that the big talking point was Cavanagh's professional foul in a sport which doesn't have rules about professional fouls. Very cynical foul, but hardly the worst thing a Tyrone footballer ever did???

[BonnieShels]

Click on the link Bonnie, not so hard...
;)

Can't... In work. I maybe should have mentioned that.

[DannyInvincible]

Brolly apologises to Cavanagh: http://thescore.thejournal.ie/joe-brolly-i-called-sean-cavanagh-yesterday-to-apologise-1027402-Aug2013/


But after a week in which his comments have been dissected by the GAA world, Brolly says he made the call yesterday to apologise for ‘one line’ in the televised tirade.

“I rang Sean yesterday,” Brolly said on TV3′s Ireland AM. “I meant everything that I said, – everything that I said — and you know it is a cancer in the game and it’s destroying the spirit of the game, it’s permeating through to under-age levels and all of that.

“But I spoke to Sean yesterday and apologised to Sean for one line, which I hadn’t realised I said at the time. About ‘you can forget about him as a man’. What I meant obviously was as a man and how he conducts himself on the field. But it’s nothing to do with his private life.”

Brolly said Cavanagh accepted his apology and they moved on to discuss Tyrone’s semi-final opposition.

“We spent half and hour talking about the pros and cons of Mayo,” he said. “But that part of it… I meant everything I said but I didn’t mean to impute anything about his private life. It was most unfair and I appreciated that when I looked at it again so fair is fair and he was very gracious about accepting it.”


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMgI6Yb8_1Q

[ArdeeBhoy]

Was that a good game today or not?

The red was probably deserved but it ended it as a contest.