The Return of Fianna Fáil

[culloty82]

So, FF have gained four points to 21%, overtaking SF to come second. FG - Lab would still be returned, but with the bare minimum of a majority:

FG 63
FF 37
SF 25
Lab 17
Oth 16

The Irish Times also tell us most of the FF support is aged 50+.

[BonnieShels]

Lest we ever forget.

[John83]

Naturally. Everyone they've screwed over hardest has been forced to emigrate.

[SkStu]

When you sit back and think about this, it's an absolute mindf*ck. It's akin to interviewing a convicted paedo for a nappy changer position in a kindergarten.

[NeverFeltBetter]

It's just a reaction to the government really. Unhappy with FG/Lab? Not left enough for ULA/Sinn Fein? Who else is there?

[SkStu]

The fact that they're still even an option speaks volumes about the mindset of the Irish electorate. Such small time, parochial bullsh!t.

[Angus]

Agree - stunning that people en masse could vote for those people - but let's calm down - this is a mid term poll and is of no relevance to any election result.

Wasn't that long ago that Herman Cain was the front runner in the polls for the GOP

[BonnieShels]

I had hoped that the last one was a blip and didn't take into consideration the liquidation of IBRC.

But now this one has.


A second opinion poll in a fortnight has found that Fianna Fáil is the most popular party in the country.

The Millward Brown poll for tomorrow's Sunday Independent, shows Fianna Fáil support at 27%, two points ahead of Fine Gael.

The poll was taken among 1,000 voters between 6-13 February.

In the poll 27% of voters say they are “undecided”. When these are excluded, the poll shows Government parties Fine Gael at 25% and Labour 13%.

Fianna Fáil leads with 27% support with Sinn Féin on 20% and Independents and Others, including the Green Party and United Left Alliance on 16%.
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0216/368110-second-opinion-poll-has-fianna-fail-as-top-party/


I actually feel ill at the thought that there's people out there who think they are an option. Sickens me.

My emigration to the True North may not come quick enough.

[peadar1987]

That settles it. I'm never coming back home!

[peadar1987]

I honestly can't understand how people can be that stupid and still be able to operate a pencil well enough to fill in a ballot!

[BonnieShels]

I honestly can't understand how people can be that stupid and still be able to operate a pencil well enough to fill in a ballot!

I'm still ever hopeful that by the time the next election does occur we'll have started crawling out of the mire and FF will have nothing to cling to. Though the fear I have is that they'll jump on the 1916 bandwagon. Eugh.

[Macy]

I'm still ever hopeful that by the time the next election does occur we'll have started crawling out of the mire and FF will have nothing to cling to. THough the fear I have is that they'll jump on the 1916 bandwagon. Eugh.
They're doing what they do best - opposing in opposition what they signed up to in Government. They'll bs on about the property tax that they committed the state too, they'll have a go about the magdalene women when they were in Government (Martin around the bloody cabinet table) when they refused to treat them the same as other abuse victims and had decades in Government to deal with it, they'll criticise the Prom Note/ IRBC deal when it was them that tied that noose around the neck of the state, crib about Croke Park when they signed the state up to it etc etc.

There's a lot of talk about broken Government promises, much of it actual rubbish if you go back and look, but FF get off pretty free of the media pointing out their contradictary position. 10 years isn't enough to keep pointing it out, never mind 2 years, but the media (in general) have brought this line totally instead of pointing out the hypocrisy.

My only hope is that this bounce is from the older population, who they sheltered from the worst cuts, and continue to make a play for. Hopefully these people will begin to die off for the sake of the state.

[BonnieShels]

They're doing what they do best - opposing in opposition what they signed up to in Government. They'll bs on about the property tax that they committed the state too, they'll have a go about the magdalene women when they were in Government (Martin around the bloody cabinet table) when they refused to treat them the same as other abuse victims and had decades in Government to deal with it, they'll criticise the Prom Note/ IRBC deal when it was them that tied that noose around the neck of the state, crib about Croke Park when they signed the state up to it etc etc.

There's a lot of talk about broken Government promises, much of it actual rubbish if you go back and look, but FF get off pretty free of the media pointing out their contradictary position. 10 years isn't enough to keep pointing it out, never mind 2 years, but the media (in general) have brought this line totally instead of pointing out the hypocrisy.

My only hope is that this bounce is from the older population, who they sheltered from the worst cuts, and continue to make a play for. Hopefully these people will begin to die off for the sake of the state.

Well. Yes.

My Dad called Enda Kenny a b***ox the other day and I asked why. He couldn't answer. This seems to be the trend amongst people willing to criticise the current govt. As unpalatable as the decisions that the govt have made and as crap as some of their decisions have been. It hasn't been a bad 2 years of a clean up operation from FG and the sensible (The Non-SF-TTWP/WP/DL) side of Labour.
I have a few reservations and they mostly seem to stick around Labour and their flakiness. These are the sorts of results in opinion polls that resonate with their grassroots and the sort of thing that makes the heads itchy.

It'll be plain-sailing once Budget 2014 this December is navigated.

[geysir]

I'd suggest that if anyone is under the impression that a FG led government would have acted differently in the so called 'tiger years', they are seriously deluded.
Fianna Fail have a base support that they can always claw back into their fold. That support is not enough to give them momentum. They need to garner another 20% which is not hard core support.
I said at the time of the last GE, the material difference between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael is that FG would implement the cuts ruthlessly. FG could do it better because that's their forte and they could always blame FF for the mess.
Not only have FG aided with the process of transforming private debt into a sovereign debt, they have created the debt collector mechanism to make the people pay for the debt. The citizens are now regarded as criminals if they don't fork up. It's no wonder that their poll results are back to where they were.

[BonnieShels]

I'd suggest that if anyone is under the impression that a FG led government would have acted differently in the so called 'tiger years', they are seriously deluded.

It's this statement that is the most frightening.

Whilst it was very possible FG may have abandoned their Cavan-like approach to spending cash, they didn't and FF did. We can't admonish FG for the sins of FF simply because they may have done the same. That's insane.

As the incumbent govt at the beginning of the Tiger years (Election 1997) they and Labour gave no indication that they'd go mental and it was this that ultimately cost them the election and with it the absolute misery in the last 5 years that a lot of people in this State have suffered.

Actually you'r right, the crisis is FG and Labours fault for not winning the election in 1997! :P

[Spudulika]

I heard (on a podcast I'd downloaded overnight) a great excuse for the "bounce". "Sure, who else would we vote for?" Ashamed of them. I'm ashamed of the FG-Labour scumfest and in the co-operation of the establishment to destroy opposition other than FF. Dreadful crud to have to start the week with.

[peadar1987]

The most galling thing is, it's not like it's a malevolent dictatorship. That, I could handle. It's the fact that the Irish electorate are morons. Or, have a large enough critical mass of morons (or self-interested sociopaths) that the country always seems to be run by the corrupt and the incompetent.

[BonnieShels]

I blame the Brits.

Seriously though, the 1922 vacuum is the greatest crime they ever inflicted on Ireland. Screw the 'famine'.

[peadar1987]

I blame the Brits.

Seriously though, the 1922 vacuum is the greatest crime they ever inflicted on Ireland. Screw the 'famine'.

Damn Civil War politics! If only they'd given us a Treaty that everyone ​could have been annoyed about!

[BonnieShels]

Damn Civil War politics! If only they'd given us a Treaty that everyone ​could have been annoyed about!

Or not at all and tell the tools to go back to their hovels and discuss Redmond Home-rule.

[peadar1987]

Or not at all and thell the tools to go back to their hovels and discuss Redmond Home-rule.

That's something I'm pretty conflicted about. I hate British Imperialism equally as much as I hate De Valera dancing-at-the-crossroads-until-you-get-knocked-up-then-it's-slave-labour-for-you Rome Rule ultraconservative Ireland. We probably would have been better off if the Bantry landings had succeeded and we'd ended up ruled from Paris!

[DannyInvincible]

That's something I'm pretty conflicted about. I hate British Imperialism equally as much as I hate De Valera dancing-at-the-crossroads-until-you-get-knocked-up-then-it's-slave-labour-for-you Rome Rule ultraconservative Ireland.

De Valera's attempt to portray and realise the new Ireland as Catholic and rural was a reaction or in cultural rebellion to the notion of Britain, the former master, as Protestant and urban/industrial. Not that I have any time for such sentiment either, mind.

[geysir]

It's this statement that is the most frightening.

Whilst it was very possible FG may have abandoned their Cavan-like approach to spending cash, they didn't and FF did. We can't admonish FG for the sins of FF simply because they may have done the same. That's insane.

As the incumbent govt at the beginning of the Tiger years (Election 1997) they and Labour gave no indication that they'd go mental and it was this that ultimately cost them the election and with it the absolute misery in the last 5 years that a lot of people in this State have suffered.

Actually you'r right, the crisis is FG and Labours fault for not winning the election in 1997! :P
I think you're more than a bit mixed up there and inventing stuff I did not write. The coalition can be judged on what they have done while in power.

Would FG have done any different in the 'tiger years'? is a question I have offered an opinion on. There's not a shed of evidence in their manifestos throughout all the time they were in opposition, that FG could have handled the debt frenzy and spiralling property prices, any differently.
Re FG's 2002 manifesto, George Lee famously commented it was all 'jiggery pokery'.
Fianna Fail were a train wreck but (imo) it's incidental that they were in charge and not FG.

[BonnieShels]

I'd suggest that if anyone is under the impression that a FG led government would have acted differently in the so called 'tiger years', they are seriously deluded.





I'd suggest that if anyone is under the impression that a FG led government would have acted differently in the so called 'tiger years', they are seriously deluded.

It's this statement that is the most frightening.

Whilst it was very possible FG may have abandoned their Cavan-like approach to spending cash, they didn't and FF did. We can't admonish FG for the sins of FF simply because they may have done the same. That's insane.

As the incumbent govt at the beginning of the Tiger years (Election 1997) they and Labour gave no indication that they'd go mental and it was this that ultimately cost them the election and with it the absolute misery in the last 5 years that a lot of people in this State have suffered.

Actually you'r right, the crisis is FG and Labours fault for not winning the election in 1997! :P


I think you're more than a bit mixed up there and inventing stuff I did not write. The coalition can be judged on what they have done while in power.

That's quite an assertion to make when all I did was hold an opinion on the same hypothetical situation as you did. Only differing in that I didn't agree with you. The scenario didn't come to pass. It's irrelevant how "mixed-up" I could be in this parallel universe.


Would FG have done any different in the 'tiger years'? is a question I have offered an opinion on.

As did I.


There's not a shed of evidence in their manifestos throughout all the time they were in opposition, that FG could have handled the debt frenzy and spiralling property prices, any differently.

In the period 1997-2002 FG were in the doldrums as FF were just throwing money around like snuff at a wake. There was nothing really that FG or Labour could do but offer something pleasing to the electorate.

The electorate would never have bought a political party trying to cool the boom. But likewise they were never gonna buy the idea of letting the property-party end and handing the reigns to someone else. Don't forget this was the year of the SSIA as well.

Using election manifestos as evidence of what a party would do is a lesson in futility and insanity.

You can do better than that?


Re FG's 2002 manifesto, George Lee famously commented it was all 'jiggery pokery'.
Fianna Fail were a train wreck but (imo) it's incidental that they were in charge and not FG.

I don't see how it was incidental. A party containing Bertie, McCreevy, Cowen, Lawlor, Lendahand, Burke, Martin etc is incomparable to anything anyone else could come up with.

Again, in reality FG-Labour in 1997 had kept the hand on the tiller and were steady as she goes. FF went the other way and opened the floodgates to the boom that we saw. How you could honestly say that FG-Labour would have suddenly started to spend cash like madmen is in contrast to what was actually happening at the time.

[Eminence Grise]

De Valera's attempt to portray and realise the new Ireland as Catholic and rural was a reaction or in cultural rebellion to the notion of Britain, the former master, as Protestant and urban/industrial. Not that I have any time for such sentiment either, mind.

That's not entirely accurate, DI. I'd hold that Dev was just about the worst thing to happen to Irish politics in the twentieth century, but the creation of a middle class, educated Catholic elite was already under way in the Cumann na nGaedheal governments from 1922 (WT Cosgrave, Kevin O'Higgins, Michael Tierney, Eoin MacNeill, Desmond FitzGerald, Patrick Hogan etc). Also, FF saw that CnaG/FG had the large farmer/urban middle class vote sown up, and focussing on small farmers and shopkeepers was in keeping with Dev's corporatist view of the state. The cultural rebellion against anglicisation was over thirty years under way when FF was founded. All FF did - as they have done since - was drag their ar5es onto the nearest populist bandwagon, ba5tardise any ideology they found there, and wait till the wheels came off the wagon, whereupon they leave it for FG/LAb to try to fix with too few proper implements - after all, most of the tools are in FF, aren't they?

This, from the Irish Times' letters page, is a neat summation of the cretinous nature of the common Irish voter:

Sir, – Fianna Fáil’s rise in opinion polls at the expense of the Government parties is like blaming the fire brigade for getting your house wet while it burns and then going for a pint with the arsonist. (http://www.irishtimes.com/letters/index.html#1224330207313 )

[mypost]

I'd suggest that if anyone is under the impression that a FG led government would have acted differently in the so called 'tiger years', they are seriously deluded.
I said at the time of the last GE, the material difference between Fianna Fail and Fine Gael is that FG would implement the cuts ruthlessly. FG could do it better because that's their forte and they could always blame FF for the mess.

Did anyone care what the FG election manifesto was in the noughties? Labour proposed an extra public holiday in their 2002 manifesto. Dick Spring was voted out of the Dail, and Ruairi Quinn resigned as leader.

As absurd as the idea of FF screwing the country again in 3 years time is, it is the trend across Europe. Labour left behind them a trillion Euro deficit in the UK in 2010. Now they're the most popular party there. Sarkosy left the Elysee Palace with widespread unemployment, and the country on the brink of losing it's credit rating. Now his successor's approval rating has sunk. In Spain, the country was on the brink of the IMF, the Popular Party were duly re-elected, but the only thing popular now is the daily protests in Madrid, and Catalan rebels demanding independence. A convicted criminal was replaced in Italy by Monti. Now the convicted criminal could get back in power to screw the country even more. Greece held a number of elections last summer, and many more protests since.

It's the economy, stupid. What is in the pocket forms opinion polls, and decides who gets marked on the ballot paper.

[BonnieShels]

Thankfully we have , most likely, Labour-depending 3 years 'til our next general election.

[peadar1987]

Did anyone care what the FG election manifesto was in the noughties? Labour proposed an extra public holiday in their 2002 manifesto. Dick Spring was voted out of the Dail, and Ruairi Quinn resigned as leader.

As absurd as the idea of FF screwing the country again in 3 years time is, it is the trend across Europe. Labour left behind them a trillion Euro deficit in the UK in 2010. Now they're the most popular party there. Sarkosy left the Elysee Palace with widespread unemployment, and the country on the brink of losing it's credit rating. Now his successor's approval rating has sunk. In Spain, the country was on the brink of the IMF, the Popular Party were duly re-elected, but the only thing popular now is the daily protests in Madrid, and Catalan rebels demanding independence. A convicted criminal was replaced in Italy by Monti. Now the convicted criminal could get back in power to screw the country even more. Greece held a number of elections last summer, and many more protests since.

It's the economy, stupid. What is in the pocket forms opinion polls, and decides who gets marked on the ballot paper.

Which is why I'm slowly drifting towards being some sort of monarchist. Electorates are idiots.

[BonnieShels]

Which is why I'm slowly drifting towards being some sort of monarchist. Electorates are idiots.

Dictatorship for me please!

[BonnieShels]

Normal service resumed?

FG 28%
FF 26%
SF 16%
LAB 12%
IND/IRRELEVANT 18%

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0223/369264-redc-sbp-poll/

[mypost]

Looks like many soft Labour voters have rejoined the troika party.

Governments always insist they don't govern by opinion polls, but they don't ignore them. Enda had a heave against him when FG's opinion polls stagnated, Cowen had another when FF barely had double figures, and Gilmore may get one coming his way soon. 12% is even by Labour ratings, very poor.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ah lads, would you not give FF a chance? They've obviously learned their lesson. They won't make the same mistakes again. Bunch of begrudgers in this country.

[Sean South]

It dosen't really matter if it's FG or FF they are both as bad as each other. Two centre right parties with more or less the same policies. Can people not see this?

[Keen2win]

It dosen't really matter if it's FG or FF they are both as bad as each other. Two centre right parties with more or less the same policies. Can people not see this?

What is the alternative? A leftist party? Do people really want that?

[bennocelt]

What is the alternative? A leftist party? Do people really want that?


Tsk! No, more of the same please! (corruption)

[Keen2win]

Who would you vote for?

[Eminence Grise]

A reform party, one with the ball5 to say that we never created a republic in the proper meaning of the word. The kind of party that ignores the political spectrum (can be left on social issues, right on justice etc) and would have the gumption to tackle the manifest flaws of the public service and the private sector.

In short, nobody right now.

[BonnieShels]

A reform party, one with the ball5 to say that we never created a republic in the proper meaning of the word. The kind of party that ignores the political spectrum (can be left on social issues, right on justice etc) and would have the gumption to tackle the manifest flaws of the public service and the private sector.

In short, nobody right now.

This is the biggest difficulty in Irish politics. An almost impossible dream.

[mypost]

It dosen't really matter if it's FG or FF they are both as bad as each other. Two centre right parties with more or less the same policies. Can people not see this?

FF cut, taxed, and set new records for incompetence in their last term. Compared to them, the current government are refreshing.

There would be no €8.65 wage without them, no €188 weekly ja without them, PRSI would remain at 13%, we'd need another bailout, the bank guarantee would be guaranteed, borrowing costs would be at Italy/Spain levels, and the economy would not be so much on the floor, as deep underground.

Before the last CP agreement Doran of the INMO played his hand to everyone who would listen to him. Then he took his ball home at half time protesting at the referee, and is now left with egg on his face. I have little sympathy for those who played the "not an inch" card. If they really can't stomach losing 15 minutes an hour of premium payments, they can go to the airport, trot around Australia and New Zealand, and see how hard it is to live on only €27k pa, like thousands from this country have had to do every week for the past 4 years.

[bennocelt]

Who would you vote for?

SF, Independents or that new party thats forming at the moment -the one the plumber set up! (Direct Democracy or something)

[Eminence Grise]

that new party thats forming at the moment -the one the plumber set up!

Cisterns of the world unite! You have nothing to lose but your chains...

Coat, get, etc

[SkStu]

You're wavin a laugh EG!

[Spudulika]

Almost 10,000 goms voted for the FF candidate in Meath East, scarily over 1,000 more traitors voted for a shill. Ireland truly is a Fyffes republic.

[BonnieShels]

FF and FG level in RED C poll
A new opinion poll for tomorrow's Sunday Business Post shows support for Fine Gael and Fianna Fáil level.
It is the first time in five years that Fine Gael has not been ahead in a Red C poll.
Red C conducted this poll among over 1,000 voters on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday of last week.
It shows support for Fine Gael down two points to 26%, while Labour is unchanged at 11%.
Fianna Fáil gains one point to 26%, while Sinn Féin is unchanged at 16%. Independents and ‘Others’ are up one point to 21%.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0525/452615-poll-shows-fianna-fail-fine-gael-support-level/


What the hell?

They've done absolutely nothing to warrant 1% support in the 2 years since the GE. A frankly frightening result and a prime example why I'm emigrating even though I don't have to.

[NeverFeltBetter]

I would maintain it has nothing to do with FF, and more to do with a lack of other options for those who have come to despise the government parties.

[BonnieShels]

I would maintain it has nothing to do with FF, and more to do with a lack of other options for those who have come to despise the government parties.

It has everything to do with FF. They should be so so toxic that for anyone to say that they would vote for them should be akin to someone saying they are gonna vote for the Nazi-KKK-Al Qaeda-Mao-Pol Pot party.

They shouldn't even cross any sane person's mind as an option; as an idea.

[dahamsta]

I would maintain it has nothing to do with FF, and more to do with a lack of other options for those who have come to despise the government parties.

Now where have I heard that before?

[pineapple stu]

They've done absolutely nothing to warrant 1% support in the 2 years since the GE.
FF or FG?

I think it's all moot anyway while the IMF are in charge. And while I'm sure FF would love to start ramping up house prices again and calling this a good thing, it flies in the face of rational economics, so ain't going to happen.

But depressing that FF are still viable at this stage alright.

[BonnieShels]

But depressing that FF are still viable at this stage alright.

I care not that FG haven't done everything as they said they would but dear lord there's no call for FF to have any support at all.

[peadar1987]

I would genuinely sooner vote Monster Raving Loony than Fianna Fáil. I am honestly just flabbergasted that anyone would even consider voting for them. Grr! Sometimes I'm glad I no longer have to share an island with the sort of people who make statistics like this happen (although over here we've UKIP and the Tories. If Boris Johnson ever becomes Prime Minister, I'm going full V for Vendetta on Westminster!!)