The Return of Fianna Fáil

[Charlie Darwin]

I would maintain it has nothing to do with FF, and more to do with a lack of other options for those who have come to despise the government parties.
There are lots of options. You mean that people are unwilling to vote for a party that doesn't have a realistic chance of forming a government. Because Irish people generally only vote for people who can do something for them and don't really understand the concept of voting on principle.

[Macy]

Interesting point made by Jim Glennon today - for all the FF are back stuff, traditionally FF and FG between them would have 75-80% of the vote. They're now down to barely 50%.

A significant proportion will always forgive FF. The number of times I've heard people giving out about Government decisions on cuts and taxes and followed by "sure this lot are always the same" - it's always been proceeded by FF fecking up the economy, FG and Labour cleaning up the mess, and then FF sweeping back to power as they're the ones to be trusted with the economy. It's a blind spot the irish electorate have, but each time a few more are knocked off for ever (hence the trend to drop support)

It is turning out to be a massive mistake for Labour to go in with FG. The citizens are better off, but yet short term National Interest has scuppered a chance to change the political landscape. FG with independents would've been an unstable coalition, and Labour would've been Leaders of the Opposition, starving FF of oxygen.


There are lots of options. You mean that people are unwilling to vote for a party that doesn't have a realistic chance of forming a government. Because Irish people generally only vote for people who can do something for them and don't really understand the concept of voting on principle.
And they want to vote for the winner, like they like to support a winner in sport.

[bennocelt]

A significant proportion will always forgive FF. The number of times I've heard people giving out about Government decisions on cuts and taxes and followed by "sure this lot are always the same" - it's always been proceeded by FF fecking up the economy, FG and Labour cleaning up the mess, and then FF sweeping back to power as they're the ones to be trusted with the economy. It's a blind spot the irish electorate have, but each time a few more are knocked off for ever (hence the trend to drop support)

It is turning out to be a massive mistake for Labour to go in with FG. The citizens are better off, but yet short term National Interest has scuppered a chance to change the political landscape. FG with independents would've been an unstable coalition, and Labour would've been Leaders of the Opposition, starving FF of oxygen.




Is there anybody still left in Ireland?:eek:

[Spudulika]

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/poll-shows-fianna-f%C3%A1il-remains-best-supported-party-in-state-at-26-1.1427920

Oh no, no. No.

[BonnieShels]

I Actually feel Sick. Came in here to post it.

I'll probably be still away when the next GE. If they're in power when I get back I'll be leading a coup.

[peadar1987]

You know something, I can genuinely see why people violently overthrow democratically elected governments. The rage I felt when sitting at my computer screen was pretty bad. I can only imagine what I would have done had I been in some sort of mob of like-minded people. Why are Irish people seemingly so fixed on self-destruction?!

Then again, the longer I've been interested in politics, the more I've lost respect for the average voter. Is there some way we can introduce a test so the sort of people who vote Boris Johnson into positions of power because they think he's funny are permanently removed from the electoral register?!

[BonnieShels]

I got the "sure they're all the same" comment. I nearly launched one.

I'll be just finished my Canadian visa in April 2016. I assume barring catastrophe that that'll be when the GE will be.

I will go all falling down on this country's ass if what I think will happen, happens.

[Charlie Darwin]

I got the "sure they're all the same" comment. I nearly launched one.
Bizarre logic. They're all the same, therefore I'll vote for one of them.

[peadar1987]

Bizarre logic. They're all the same, therefore I'll vote for one of them.

Not even that; "They're all the same, therefore I'll vote for the one of them that ****ed up the country, instead of one of the identical ones that hasn't yet."

Almost as bad as "my dad was a Fianna Fáil man". Oh really, well your dad also rode your mum, and I doubt you'd catch you doing that!

[Charlie Darwin]

Almost as bad as "my dad was a Fianna Fáil man". Oh really, well your dad also rode your mum, and I doubt you'd catch you doing that!
Read your first sentence again. And then ask yourself if you're still as sure about the second :)

[Spudulika]

I am genuinely dismayed by that poll, dismayed but not surprised. From the off I didn't believe a word of the (now proven) lies FG and Lab were spouting in the run up to the election. The last election was one that could change the country for 2-3 generations and do a lot of genuine good. I hoped that FG would be left hanging by Labour and let the right wingers crack on and do something stupid (as they have been doing) and let Leo the Liar and his crowd destroy themselves AND FF. That way Labour could come in this year with SF and do some proper work. I was dumb, truly dumb for believing this could happen.

Sitting here in Moscow and thinking of how much crap goes on here, yet it doesn't change. VVP and his wife divorce on a whim (officially) and the country just yawns. Billions are misappropriated and the protesters of last year don't bother their backsides doing anything, why? Because the Moscow city government have made the city a haven of cafes, bars and comfortable public spaces - so sipping crappucino's and all that junk, the "middle class", or basically the talking heads who do sweet fa, are enjoying the summer and talking about how the government listened to them, and the media play along. So nothing changed. Nobody wanted change, they just wanted more cafes and the self-satisfaction of pretending they made changes.

In a sarcastic moment I liken it to the Irish sports meeja and their campaign against Trap, around the time of Germany they went all out with torrents of lies and guff to unseat him, and then when the man continued to introduced changes to the side they claimed victory in our time. Yet anyone with a head and knowledge of football began to like Trap as they felt there was something more going on. Here it's the same. Putin has amassed a fortune of $43billion, had a new home built by one of the Sochi construction companies - as a gift and nobody blinks. His ratings go up and nobody cares anymore.

How anybody could say - "sure they're all the same", no they're not! I'm far from a fan of SF, but they're rather different to the other lot, so wouldn't it be great that in a protest vote they were put in government. It won't happen because the ruling elite are going to make sure it won't happen. So this latest poll, just makes me think that it'd be better to take up that job offer in Turkmenistan!

[mypost]

"It's the economy, stupid."

FF have no economic policy, have no employment policy, have no viable policy at all, but at least they don't affect the Euro in the pocket anymore, so they will always get a hearing in a recession. Even if it's the one they created.

[Spudulika]

I'd go with that Mypost, but the last bye-election was won by....FG, and the daughter of the TD who'd committed suicide to leave the vacancy in the first place. If ever there was a reason to go on a rampage in Leinster House with a machine gun, that was it. Our people are incapable of electing competent representatives.

[mypost]

I think that is rather unfair given the background of the election. She certainly wasn't elected for her political pedigree, but she was the only candidate that stopped FF taking the seat. FF should be completely condemned for the foreseeable future, and squealing that they're all the same is not good enough nor right either. This government was elected to make the decisions necessary for the nation to recover, and in the main, they have. But it's the Euro in the pocket that determines opinion polls and elections.

[Eminence Grise]

It's the dynasticism that bugs me: people with no qualifications other than a blood line getting a sympathy vote from voters. We never created a republic here, just a playground for a right of centre, conservative, Catholic elite where people with an overweening sense of entitlement pretend they're engaged in politics, while, without even so much as a pretense at honesty, they build familial power blocks that would make a mafioso blush. One of my history lecturers told our class 20 years ago that the best textbook on Tudor Ireland, and Irish history/politics generally was Mario Puzo's The Godfather. We laughed - more fools us.

[culloty82]

Of course, there's always the fresh, radical alternative of Declan Ganley (http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/support-for-new-party-is-growing-claims-ganley-29365605.html) (again).

[dahamsta]

There's no doubt in my mind that Ganley would u-turn on every single one of his policies if it suited him, with zero compunction.

[peadar1987]

There's no doubt in my mind that Ganley would u-turn on every single one of his policies if it suited him, with zero compunction.

So just like all the rest of them then!

I suppose he reckons he's seen a sorely neglected opening in the "untrustworthy right-wing snake" department.

[Spudulika]

The issue, same as in many other kleptocracies, is who would replace the current rubbish mascarading as the coalition? If it were the creation of a new type of government or even the liquidation of the current elite, their kin and kith, we'd still find a way to develop a patronage system to have the same old slime cover us. Declan Ganley has too many holes in his past to be a leader, though he can do well as a commentator, but that's it. Maybe we need to do a Mouse that Roared job on ourselves and get some good old USA dee-moh-cracy.

[Macy]

Every election there is already the chance to change the politicians representing us. In our STV PR system, the smaller parties/ independents have a chance, and do stand across the country. The people choose to vote between dumb and dumber and ultimately vote for Labour to go into coalition with one of them. (I have zero faith if Labour had said no to coalition, the media in this state (entirely right wing/ conservative (with a small c) would absolutely hammer them for not acting in the national interest, and they'd face the same decimation. This coalition is acting completely as it said it would, and anyone paying any attention to politics could see it was going to behave as it has. The giving out, and broken promises bs, says more about the electorate, than it does about the coalition - it's the different side of the same coin as FF going up in the polls.

[Spudulika]

I didn't want to start a new thread as it's wrong to give Paul Williams more air, though can anyone tell me how the Anglo tapes were obtained and who recorded them? Still trying to figure why they were released now, maybe to halt FF's gallop in the polls?

[Macy]

I didn't want to start a new thread as it's wrong to give Paul Williams more air, though can anyone tell me how the Anglo tapes were obtained and who recorded them? Still trying to figure why they were released now, maybe to halt FF's gallop in the polls?
I can't answer how (or more importantly when) they were obtained, but I think it's standard practice in banking to record calls. If clients are giving instructions on, for example share dealings, on the phone, it's the banks back up.

As to why now, that's the real pertinent question. I really doubt INM going out to bat for anyone but FF - it certainly helps them spin they were lied to rather than they f*cked it all up. Shouldn't wash anyway - they instigated light touch regulation, so even if you believe that narrative it's still their fault! So FF rising in the polls, FF now able to spin "it was all the bankers", thanks to the people rejecting the referendum we can't hold a proper inquiry (so watered down, or a long tribunal) - that doesn't help anyone but FF.

[BonnieShels]

All calls in Treasury Depts of banks are recorded. This is not going to go away and FG need to go with it now. FFs credibility is facing the point of no return now.

[peadar1987]

All calls in Treasury Depts of banks are recorded. This is not going to go away and FG need to go with it now. FFs credibility is facing the point of no return now.

Don't get your hopes up. There will always be those who will say "Sure they may have ****ed the country up, have no plan for fixing it, no evidence they wouldn't just drive us even further into the **** than they did the last time, and are a bunch of corrupt, self-serving, thieving geebags, but my Dad voted for them back in the '70s, so I'm going to do the same. And they promised to build a swing set in Ballymafeckarse if they get in."

[Mr A]

It was interesting that Kenny went on the attack against FF to such an extent yesterday when there has been little to tie in FF directly. Something tells me there is a lot more to come on this and that it's going to involve politicians.

[Charlie Darwin]

Had to laugh when I saw Sean Fleming rejecting the idea of a parliamentary enquiry, saying those involved had to be tried criminally. Not at all an attempt to keep the full extent of FF's involvement out of the public forum.

[BonnieShels]

Don't get your hopes up. There will always be those who will say "Sure they may have ****ed the country up, have no plan for fixing it, no evidence they wouldn't just drive us even further into the **** than they did the last time, and are a bunch of corrupt, self-serving, thieving geebags, but my Dad voted for them back in the '70s, so I'm going to do the same. And they promised to build a swing set in Ballymafeckarse if they get in."

See below.


It was interesting that Kenny went on the attack against FF to such an extent yesterday when there has been little to tie in FF directly. Something tells me there is a lot more to come on this and that it's going to involve politicians.

Yip.


Had to laugh when I saw Sean Fleming rejecting the idea of a parliamentary enquiry, saying those involved had to be tried criminally. Not at all an attempt to keep the full extent of FF's involvement out of the public forum.

Indeed.

I haven't heard any commentator consider why FG and Labour are insistent on a Parliamentary inquiry. And why FF keep saying that Criminal proceedings should be taken.

Come on now lads. It's as plain as the nose of Micheal's face.

Something is about to go down. And Micheal as a member of the cabinet on September 18th is gonna get whipped. Hopefully. I think the big guns are gonna be out in the Sindo on Sunday.

[bennocelt]

This coalition is acting completely as it said it would, and anyone paying any attention to politics could see it was going to behave as it has. The giving out, and broken promises bs, says more about the electorate, than it does about the coalition - it's the different side of the same coin as FF going up in the polls.


Here here (not often I agree with you Macy but that was spot on!:))
It was so obvious but then the Irish electorate are a joke.
Can we just get M O Leary to run the country and put us out of our misery

[Charlie Darwin]

I really find it bizarre when people hold up Michael O'Leary as some beacon of good governance. He'd sell off every natural resource we have by 11am the day he took over.

edit: I'm not picking on you, benno, but this is something I hear quite often. What we need in this country are people who are the precise opposite of O'Leary - people with a social conscious who will prioritise welfare over "results". I have no doubt somebody like O'Leary would have a lot to offer in terms of cutting down waste and bureaucracy in the public sector, but he is very much the archetypal Fianna Failer.

[dahamsta]

Bang on. You might as well ask the Anglo scum to run the country.

[peadar1987]

I really find it bizarre when people hold up Michael O'Leary as some beacon of good governance. He'd sell off every natural resource we have by 11am the day he took over.

edit: I'm not picking on you, benno, but this is something I hear quite often. What we need in this country are people who are the precise opposite of O'Leary - people with a social conscious who will prioritise welfare over "results". I have no doubt somebody like O'Leary would have a lot to offer in terms of cutting down waste and bureaucracy in the public sector, but he is very much the archetypal Fianna Failer.

Yup, I've seen it before with the people who think Wal-Mart should run America. A government's first duty is to its citizens. All its citizens. A company's main duty, like it or not (and I don't), is to its shareholders. And the shareholders want the company to make stacks of money. Not care for the environment, not ensure that they pay fair wages, or treat their customers right, or comply with workpace safety regulations.

That's not to say that a good businessman mightn't be a good leader for the country, it's just not a necessary trait, and it's definitely not the only ​necessary trait.

[bennocelt]

I really find it bizarre when people hold up Michael O'Leary as some beacon of good governance. He'd sell off every natural resource we have by 11am the day he took over.

edit: I'm not picking on you, benno, but this is something I hear quite often. What we need in this country are people who are the precise opposite of O'Leary - people with a social conscious who will prioritise welfare over "results". I have no doubt somebody like O'Leary would have a lot to offer in terms of cutting down waste and bureaucracy in the public sector, but he is very much the archetypal Fianna Failer.

I was joking, ha:)
I agree with you

[Eminence Grise]

And the fickle (feckless, even?) electorate attach the electrodes to the rotting cadaver that is FF and jolt it back to life.

FF - 29%
FG - 26&
SF - 19%
Other/Ind - 19%
Lab - 8%
http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/0706/460961-ff-support-up-fg-lab-down-opinion-poll/

Still, Frankenstein's monster was a work of fiction too, though less scary than a FF revival....

[Charlie Darwin]

Jaysus, I had assumed the latest poll would show a decrease for FF after the Anglo tapes came out. A parliamentary inquiry is starting to look like our only hope to apportion responsibility to the right people.

[NeverFeltBetter]

If you throw in undecideds (which, over the last while, have always been a huge percentage), no political party has over 20% support.

Its one of the reasons I can't really bring myself to have much faith in polls right now as a realistic appraisal of national mindset. Sometimes 33% of people surveyed either don't know or don't have an opinion, and we're talking gaps between parties as low as 1 to 3 points.

[BonnieShels]

Jaysus, I had assumed the latest poll would show a decrease for FF after the Anglo tapes came out. A parliamentary inquiry is starting to look like our only hope to apportion responsibility to the right people.

Me too. But hey, the Irish people just keep on giving.


If you throw in undecideds (which, over the last while, have always been a huge percentage), no political party has over 20% support.

Its one of the reasons I can't really bring myself to have much faith in polls right now as a realistic appraisal of national mindset. Sometimes 33% of people surveyed either don't know or don't have an opinion, and we're talking gaps between parties as low as 1 to 3 points.

While you're correct in your statements it is the fact that they are leading amongst the decided and in fact have more than 0.00000000001% of the potential vote that worries me. I'm thoroughly beyond disgusted. This country really has to consider it's viability if they ever get back into power. I will lead a coup on my return from Canada in 2016 if FF are in power.

[Eminence Grise]

Coups are so passé these days, Bonnie. It's all about interventions now. But this might help you get started: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23196311 . If you need a Colonel in Charge of Propaganda, where should I send the CV?:cool:

[BonnieShels]

Coups are so passé these days, Bonnie. It's all about interventions now. But this might help you get started: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23196311 . If you need a Colonel in Charge of Propaganda, where should I send the CV?:cool:

Jesus,
c/o The Pentagon

[bennocelt]

Me too. But hey, the Irish people just keep on giving.



While you're correct in your statements it is the fact that they are leading amongst the decided and in fact have more than 0.00000000001% of the potential vote that worries me. I'm thoroughly beyond disgusted. This country really has to consider it's viability if they ever get back into power. I will lead a coup on my return from Canada in 2016 if FF are in power.

Bit Bonnie surely Canada isnt that much better with that mong Harper in charge?

[BonnieShels]

It isn't but thankfully Justin Trudeau will be in power by the time I'm there or shortly afterwards.

[Macy]

If you throw in undecideds (which, over the last while, have always been a huge percentage), no political party has over 20% support.

Its one of the reasons I can't really bring myself to have much faith in polls right now as a realistic appraisal of national mindset. Sometimes 33% of people surveyed either don't know or don't have an opinion, and we're talking gaps between parties as low as 1 to 3 points.
There's definitely an issue how they treat the undecideds, and it changes from polling company to polling company. Some are also based on who is likely to vote, rather than a straight opinion.

[BonnieShels]

Oh look... there's a piece on Krank.ie today about this...




Somehow, they haven’t gone away you know

“Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.” George Santayana

What a weekend that was.


Dublin win a Senior Leinster title in Hurling for the first time in 52 years. Dan Martin becomes the first Irishman to win a stage on the Tour de France since 1992. The Lions hammer Australia without BOD. Some Scottish guy won a tennis tournament. More Anglo-tapes. A train explosion in a small town in Canada. A plane crash at San Francisco airport. Major clashes in Egypt between Morsi’s supporters and the army. A referee beheaded at a soccer match in Brazil…

It was quite a weekend alright.

Hidden amongst all of that, the Sunday Independent released a poll conducted by Millward Brown.

This poll showed that Fianna Fáil had risen by 2 points since the last poll conducted in May.

Let us not forget that in the intervening period between the two polls we had the revelations of the Anglo-tapes. Surely a bank scandal such as this which is tied ever so tightly to Fianna Fáil and their horrendous management of the economy of this State would have ensured a collapse in their showing in this poll? Not at all.

The inexorable rise of Fianna Fáil in all polls since the General Election of 2011 is something that defies all logic. Or does it? Maybe logic is suspended in Ireland? Maybe we traded it along with the National Pension Reserve Fund to bail out our zombie banks? I’m almost certain we have.

The criticism of Fine Gael and their junior partner in coalition, Labour, since coming to power in 2011 has been nothing short of breathtaking. Admittedly they’ve made a mess of some things and there’s only so many times the Department of Health needs to be headline news in a period of austerity and recession; but Fianna Fáil aren’t the answer, especially to the question that pollsters are asking.

If an arsonist set your house on fire, would you ask them to help you put the fire out? No, you wouldn’t, and this is what we as a nation seem to be doing.

Ireland is calling on the Soldiers of Destiny to lead us back to the Holy Land of PPARS, electronic voting machines, tribunals, HSE creation, needless public sector pay rises, quango after quango after quango, giveaway budgets, little regulation of financial institutions, M50 toll-bridge contract scandal and the limitation of the Religious for liability stemming from abuse settlements… I could go on… So I will.

There were also the iodine tablets, Ned O’Keeffe’s bone-meal business, Padraig Flynn and his 3 houses, Bertie Ahern and his sterling (Or was it dollars? Or punts?) donations from Michael Wall, Ansbacher, Padraig Flynn, Charles Haughey’s 11m punts for favours, the Hugh O’Flaherty scandal, Bertie Ahern, Liam Lawlor’s chairmanship of the Dail Joint Ethics Committee, Bertie Ahern, Beverly Flynn and her case against RTE, Ray Burke and his Century Radio cash, Ray Burke and his developers cash, Bertie nominating Ray Burke as Justice Minister, Bertie “searching every tree in North Dublin” for Ray Burke, Padraig Flynn, Charlie Haughey and his pilfering of Brian Lenihan Srs. cancer fund, Ivor Callely and his bogus invoices, Bertie Ahern and his appointment of people to State Boards “not because they gave him money but because they were his friends”, the secret deals made with Independent TDs (Jackie Healy-Rae, Michael Lowry, Beverly Flynn) with OUR money for supporting his government majority, Bertie’s memory lapses during his cross-examination at the Mahon Tribunal, Bertie’s treatment of his former secretary Grainne Carruth…

That was exhausting. And it’s nowhere near exhaustive.

But sure you’ll say that this is a new Fianna Fáil, all of those people aren’t members of the parliamentary party anymore or are deceased etc.

Ah, but the current leader of Fianna Fáil is none other than Micheál Martin, the Champs’ son from the city of Cork.

Micheál Martin served as a minister under Bertie Ahern from 1997 until Ahern’s resignation in 2008 and from then on under the “stewardship” of Brian Cowen until 2011.

As a member of cabinet at every turn, Micheál balked at his responsibility to the Irish people.

He was the Minister for Health who was responsible for the creation of that paragon of efficiency, the HSE.

He was also in Hawkins House when the Nursing Home Charges scandal was costing the State nigh on 1bn euro.

He was responsible for the Ugandan Aid scandal. Oh what’s that you say? Well, when Micheál was Minister for Foreign Affairs, he sanctioned the Irish taxpayers money (to the tune of 166m euro pa) to be given to Uganda to fight the AIDS/HIV epidemic in the country. Unfortunately, this occurred around the time Uganda, who had not got a pot, were purchasing fighter jets from Russia and Tullow Oil were negotiating with the Ugandan government about mineral rights. I’m sure there’s no connection there though.

And of course he was a cabinet member on the fateful night of the Bank Guarantee. It was such a great idea Micheál had no issue with condemning Ireland to the current austerity which we face.

I think I have scandal fatigue at this stage.

Yeah, Fianna Fáil should lead the next government.



http://www.krank.ie/category/opinions/somehow-they-havent-gone-away-you-know/

[BonnieShels]

Funny how former (Fianna Fail) Senator Francie O'Brien seems to have had no party allegiance...



Former senator Francie O'Brien pleads guilty to charge of extortion
A former senator and chairman of Monaghan County Council has pleaded guilty at the circuit court to a charge of extortion.

Francie O'Brien, with an address at Corwillan, Latton, Castleblayney, pleaded guilty to a charge of demanding €100,000 with menaces from Michael Heelan.

The offence took place at Tullyvaragh Lower, Carrickmacross, in April 2012.

The 70-year-old was remanded on bail to appear before Carrick-on-Shannon Circuit Criminal Court in November for sentencing.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2013/1011/479820-francie-obrien/

I'm not alleging any conspiracy but I’ve noticed an increasing erasure of Fianna Fail’s name being attached to former members being done on corruption. Convenient from RTE I’d say.

I need to root out the rest.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Likely to have the most local seats as it stands. Leaves them with a decent chance of being a government party again by 2016. This electorate, at times you can't help but think they deserve everything coming to them. I'm not a leftie at all, but even I have to look at this countries voting history (FF and FG always being in power or leading a coalition, no non-FF/FG Taoisigh) and be bothered by it.

[bennocelt]

I know, but the only thing is its council seats where sometimes a few hundred gets you elected, and they lost Dublin

[passinginterest]

It's fairly unsettling that FF have returned to a position of such power so quickly. And more worrying is that many of the independents are far from independent and will be swimming back into the FF pool now that they're returning to a position of strength. It was pointed out last night that three of the "independents" elected in Wexford alone are ex-FF or strongly linked to FF.

[peadar1987]

**** sake Ireland. Country of morons, we deserve everything we get. It's just a pity that so many good, intelligent people are going to be dragged down by the majority of idiots

[bennocelt]

I really hope Pat the Cope Gallagher doesnt get elected, now that would be a sad day:o

[pineapple stu]

Only bit of consolation I read was that the FF/FG vote overall is down, which is slightly positive if you take that a lot of people just bounce between the two.

Problem is, there's no real good option out there. FG are the same as FF (Noonan should be shot for openly saying he's trying to increase house prices), Sinn Féin have no grasp of basic economics and nobody seems to either have the guts or the intelligence to challenge the bankers on mortgage lending. In England, you have banks say they're putting tighter caps on lending (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/21/lloyds-mortgage-cap-london-property-fears), while the government are also at least talking about restricting help to buy (which only drives prices up). We've none of that here; we're happy to keep up with this relatively new trend of helping and encouraging people to get in as much debt as possible, thereby stymying the economy. That's more depressing than FF's votes going back up, tbh.

[BonnieShels]

Only bit of consolation I read was that the FF/FG vote overall is down, which is slightly positive if you take that a lot of people just bounce between the two.

Problem is, there's no real good option out there. FG are the same as FF (Noonan should be shot for openly saying he's trying to increase house prices), Sinn Féin have no grasp of basic economics and nobody seems to either have the guts or the intelligence to challenge the bankers on mortgage lending. In England, you have banks say they're putting tighter caps on lending (http://www.theguardian.com/business/2014/may/21/lloyds-mortgage-cap-london-property-fears), while the government are also at least talking about restricting help to buy (which only drives prices up). We've none of that here; we're happy to keep up with this relatively new trend of helping and encouraging people to get in as much debt as possible, thereby stymying the economy. That's more depressing than FF's votes going back up, tbh.

I'll take both of them as equally depressing.

Now Gilmore is gone we'll have a general election by Christmas. Labour are a joke. Always have been. Always will be.