Governance of the FAI

[Eirambler]

The comparable pay obviosuly gets the headlines and comments, but reading the article there is a lot more to it. Some of it extremly concerning.

But it feels like she's attaching that stuff onto her compo claim for her own benefit rather than for the right reasons.

If her motives were genuine why is this stuff only coming out now? As the manager she should have been airing these issues when they arose.

But it sounds like everything was agreeable enough to her up until the point where her own contract wasn't renewed, then suddenly they are problems worth airing when it suits her own interests.

[pineapple stu]

I guess it may have been discussed internally up until now, but with no satisfactory resolution, she's now taking a next step.

That said, I'm not sure what else is in there on reading it more closely. There's an issue that there was no security linked with the squad while the men's squad had three people - but so what? Again, they're different squads with different profiles, and that doesn't mean the women's team should have had three security personnel too. There's two incidents outlined and the FAI responded by adding one security member. You could say they should have had one person before, but it seems a relatively trivial issue for a court case.

Then she says she was forced into the senior manager role, which also sounds a weird one. I can't think of anything comparable really. Most people would surely want to step up - which isn't to say she wouldn't have the right to not step up. I presume she got more pay for it, and she's still with the FAI so it's not like she lost her job when she left the senior role.

I think it's hard not to look at the equal pay thing as a nuisance case and to judge the overall case on it. That may be unfortunate if not intended, but it does seem to be a big part of the case, unless I'm missing something.

[osarusan]

But it feels like she's attaching that stuff onto her compo claim for her own benefit rather than for the right reasons.

If her motives were genuine why is this stuff only coming out now? As the manager she should have been airing these issues when they arose.

But it sounds like everything was agreeable enough to her up until the point where her own contract wasn't renewed, then suddenly they are problems worth airing when it suits her own interests.

Tbf, the article suggests she was raising these issues but getting nowhere. There are examples of her contacting people but getting no response/help whatsoever.

[Eirambler]

So why not go public then if it was that bad? Or straight after she was demoted if she felt she couldn't do it while she was the manager? Why hold it back without mention right up until the point where she is seeking damages?

[pineapple stu]

In fairness, I've no problems someone going through the correct channels rather than running to the media every time something they don't like happens

[jbyrne]

Then she says she was forced into the senior manager role, which also sounds a weird one. I can't think of anything comparable really. Most people would surely want to step up - which isn't to say she wouldn't have the right to not step up. I presume she got more pay for it, and she's still with the FAI so it's not like she lost her job when she left the senior role.


this article suggests that she applied for the role twice but wasn't successful. it also quotes her admitting her interest in the role when she finally got it.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/67761893

"If you're asking for a critical, specific time where I changed my mind, it was standing in the rain in Albania," she said.

"I mean, who wouldn't want to be there?".

and...

"It is third time lucky for Gleeson, who applied for the position in 2017 and 2019 but lost out of Colin Bell and Pauw respectively."

she knows that attacking the FAI is low lying fruit for the Irish media and is taking advantage of this

[seanfhear]

Everyone ( well a lot of people ) is on the make these days, They are just looking for the best angle to grind ?

[cobhlad]

Genuinely where does the FAI go from here?

Academies: Woefully underfunded, held together by amazing volunteers trying to hold down day jobs

Schools: Could have been useful in the absence of academies but completely ignored by the FAI in comparison to GAA/rugby.

Junior football: A mess of poor facilities and unaligned leagues. May not help the senior team now but keeping people playing football can only help clubs and the game long-term

Commercial: Poor quality merchandise, lack of national brands engaging in sponsorship, frustrating ticket packages that alienate fans

LOI: The one shining light but the clubs are driving that, along with a few capable FAI employees, not the organisation as a whole

National Team: Less said the better

The whole thing is a shambles

[Eirambler]

The League of Ireland isn't even a shining light, it's just less bad than it used to be.

The answer to your question is that they continue to cut their cloth with the upcoming redundancies, and they plod on. Anyone who thinks we're on the verge of significant change, or that huge changes "have to happen", is going to be extremely disappointed.

[nigel-harps1954]

The League of Ireland isn't even a shining light, it's just less bad than it used to be.

It's a sad enough reflection on Irish football support currently that this is about as positive a remark as you've ever made about the LOI.

The LOI is currently thriving as much as its ever been. Record attendances, underage structures continuing to produce the goods, under-17 Irish squad in the world cup with an almost entirely home based squad, two clubs in group stage of European football, and all of this despite being one of the most underfunded leagues in Europe.

Some people would rather just continue to berate the league at every given opportunity though, and frankly, its just sad.

[Eirambler]

Where there are positive things to say about it I'll say them. I said last week that it wasn't beyond possibility that Shamrock Rovers could make the CL group stages, looking at what the team from Kazakhstan achieved.

But, people are saying it's a shining light - it's not even ranked in the top 30 leagues in Europe. And it has gotten to where it has almost entirely as a result of the performances of one team.

You might be surprised at how much LoI I watch. Sadly it's still - for the most part - **** teams playing **** football in **** stadiums. Wishing it were otherwise doesn't make it so.

[nigel-harps1954]

Given how utterly sh1t everything else is within Irish football currently, it absolutely is a shining light.

Given how ignored it is, how pathetically funded it is, and how clubs struggle to get their deserved attention from certain parts of the media, its head and shoulders above the level it should be at.

[SkStu]

Where there are positive things to say about it I'll say them. I said last week that it wasn't beyond possibility that Shamrock Rovers could make the CL group stages, looking at what the team from Kazakhstan achieved.

But, people are saying it's a shining light - it's not even ranked in the top 30 leagues in Europe. And it has gotten to where it has almost entirely as a result of the performances of one team.

You might be surprised at how much LoI I watch. Sadly it's still - for the most part - **** teams playing **** football in **** stadiums. Wishing it were otherwise doesn't make it so.

Say what you like about the domestic game (but you are overly contrarian about it IMO) but lets put it this way. If we had the top lads at the LOI clubs come in and run the FAI on the same sort of playing field that JD had for so many years, the FAI and Irish football would be light years ahead of where it is now. These clubs picked the domestic game up by the bootstraps with little to no support or resources - but a hell of a lot of vision - and have made massive strides.

[Stuttgart88]

I think shining light = the only part of the football scene in Ireland that's getting noticeably better, not worse, as opposed to "isn't it amazingly good?"

[Eirambler]

I think shining light = the only part of the football scene in Ireland that's getting noticeably better, not worse, as opposed to "isn't it amazingly good?"

I would say that puts it closer to "less bad than it used to be" rather than "shining light" to be honest. Bad and all as our senior international team are, they're still ranked higher in Europe than the league is.

I would suggest our actual shining light might be our Under 17s, since they're off to the World Cup this autumn. They had to be something like top 11 in Europe to achieve that - that's your shining light if you really want to find one.

[Stuttgart88]

I think you're nit picking tbh


(Post above deleted - it was a duplication of my earlier post)

[pineapple stu]

One underage team can't really be a shining light in the overall scheme of things I feel. A structure - and Stutts' cautious summary of the LoI is a good one - should carry far more weight than one underage team.

[Kingdom]

But, people are saying it's a shining light - it's not even ranked in the top 30 leagues in Europe. And it has gotten to where it has almost entirely as a result of the performances of one team.


Is that Dundalk or Rovers? Or is it Pats, Bohs or Shels? All have had credible sequences of results in Europe in the past decade.

[pineapple stu]

Is that Dundalk or Rovers? Or is it Pats, Bohs or Shels? All have had credible sequences of results in Europe in the past decade.
Only the last five years count for the UEFA rankings, so really it's substantially Rovers' exploits that count towards our UEFA ranking

[Kingdom]

I would suggest our actual shining light might be our Under 17s, since they're off to the World Cup this autumn. They had to be something like top 11 in Europe to achieve that - that's your shining light if you really want to find one.

I wouldn't be so sure about that side. They aren't that strong in comparison to previous years and they made the world cup without making the Euros which is kinda stupid.
They were poor in the first stage of the groups also - in a relatively nice group (lithuania was a stinker).
Plus they'll have lost a couple of players I assume from that group (noonan) and it could be argued their high seeding which gave them the decent original draw was based on the performances of previous years.
It's great that they are going for sure, but it's not necessarily going to be something that works out well - even allowing for the nice group (panama) which there'll undoubtedly be expectations to win.

[Eirambler]

Is that Dundalk or Rovers? Or is it Pats, Bohs or Shels? All have had credible sequences of results in Europe in the past decade.

It's Rovers, because the bulk of our five year coefficient is provided by them.

Hopefully Shels can also make a meaningful contribution this autumn, but they are where they are only by virtue of beating Linfield twice.

I agree to an extent about the Under 17s by the way, and I think they are where they are almost in spite of our structures rather than because of them. So, if the counter argument to mine is that there is simply no shining light at all, I'd accept that. But they have qualified for a World Cup and placed very highly in Europe to do it, so I'm happy to call them a shining light, even if only a short term one.

[Stuttgart88]

Hopefully Shels can also make a meaningful contribution this autumn, but they are where they are only by virtue of beating Linfield twice.

And Derry diving for an injury time penalty against Rovers :)

[Eirambler]

This article sums up the current situation well - if anything, with the negative effects of Brexit still to be felt in the senior international team, there may be worse to come.

Though, I see even David Sneyd has taken the same happy pills as the FAI in that he mistakenly seems to think Euro 2028 qualification is guaranteed, which it very much isn't.

https://archive.ph/UyKOl

[Kingdom]

Only the last five years count for the UEFA rankings, so really it's substantially Rovers' exploits that count towards our UEFA ranking

It's been quite some time since I had a good look at Bert's site, but I suppose what I'm wondering is, did Dundalk's run to the group stages (was that 2016?) impact Irish seeding at all? and if so did that positivity in any way help Rovers when they had their first good run in Europe?

If not, then no hassle at all.

[pineapple stu]

So I suppose Rovers fans will tell you their first good run was reaching the 2011 Europa League group stages, and so you're asking that question the wrong way around!

For the 2021/22 season Ireland had two of Dundalk's Europa League qualifications in our coefficient and were still only ranked 37th - indeed, we dropped back to 40th the following year, after Rovers made the Conference League groups for the first time.

So on that basis I think Dundalk's success had little real impact on Rovers.

[Kingdom]

So I suppose Rovers fans will tell you their first good run was reaching the 2011 Europa League group stages, and so you're asking that question the wrong way around!

For the 2021/22 season Ireland had two of Dundalk's Europa League qualifications in our coefficient and were still only ranked 37th - indeed, we dropped back to 40th the following year, after Rovers made the Conference League groups for the first time.

So on that basis I think Dundalk's success had little real impact on Rovers.

Thanks Stu, and yes I am getting mixed, that clarity is much appreciated.

[ontheotherhand]

I wouldn't be so sure about that side. They aren't that strong in comparison to previous years and they made the world cup without making the Euros which is kinda stupid.
They were poor in the first stage of the groups also - in a relatively nice group (lithuania was a stinker).
Plus they'll have lost a couple of players I assume from that group (noonan) and it could be argued their high seeding which gave them the decent original draw was based on the performances of previous years.
It's great that they are going for sure, but it's not necessarily going to be something that works out well - even allowing for the nice group (panama) which there'll undoubtedly be expectations to win.

Strange one to highlight in an argument against the LoI as well, given where most of them have been developed. Guess that's another win for Rovers though?

[Kingdom]

Strange one to highlight in an argument against the LoI as well, given where most of them have been developed. Guess that's another win for Rovers though?

I think the underage developments are a positive. Rovers are to the fore of that - what they've undertaken is fantastic. I only applaud Rovers for what they are doing underage.

[ontheotherhand]

I think the underage developments are a positive. Rovers are to the fore of that - what they've undertaken is fantastic. I only applaud Rovers for what they are doing underage.

A lot of clubs and a lot of volunteers are doing great work with zero help from the wider public, the government, or the FAI. Meanwhile, the focus is on the national side as it continues to humiliate us all.

I wasn't arguing against your point, just commenting on how odd it was for someone to mention the u17s as a shining light, while also claiming the LoI isn't one. Shels and Rovers are the football story in the country right now. Well, the positive one.

[nigel-harps1954]

Only the last five years count for the UEFA rankings, so really it's substantially Rovers' exploits that count towards our UEFA ranking

Could the same not be said for quite a number of nations ahead of us in the ranking table? There's an awful lot of nations that rely heavily on one or two clubs for their coefficient points.

[pineapple stu]

Oh it does, yep. Look at the difference between, say, Benfica and Santa Clara, or Celtic and St Mirren

[Stuttgart88]

A lot of clubs and a lot of volunteers are doing great work with zero help from the wider public, the government, or the FAI. Meanwhile, the focus is on the national side as it continues to humiliate us all.

I wasn't arguing against your point, just commenting on how odd it was for someone to mention the u17s as a shining light, while also claiming the LoI isn't one. Shels and Rovers are the football story in the country right now. Well, the positive one.And Pico Lopes!

[ontheotherhand]

And Pico Lopes!

Absolutely. What a story that is. And another win for Rovers. 😎