Fields of Athenry - Ireland v Spain, Gdansk

[tricky_colour]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOLgXjplfh4&feature=b-mv

[Stuttgart88]

Amazing. Roy Keane can go fcuk himself. I can tell you nobody around me was happy with anything that happenening on the pitch.

Liam Mackey in today's Examiner: The cynics can scoff all they want, but it was a real lump in the throat moment to be inside the PGE Arena on Thursday night when The Fields Of Athenry sounded the retreat from Gdansk.

[dong]

Well sung. Gotta be proud of that.:D
Thats just great.

[geysir]

The tv cameras picked on a few clowns on the periphery, hopping up and down without a care in the world. I presume that's what got Roy's attention and suited his cynicism. It's truly mind boggling that someone cynically twists the reasons why the fans sung as they did at the end.

[Murfinator]

The tv cameras picked on a few clowns on the periphery, hopping up and down without a care in the world. I presume that's what got Roy's attention and suited his cynicism.

People at home and Roy Keane are only watching what the cameramen show us. All I'll say is that if the (who you refer to as) clowns hopping up and down in delirious joy were a true reflection of the crowds mood then thats deeply concerning and an embarrassment. If it wasn't then the cameras misportrayed the crowd.

Perhaps the cynics are more the naive for believing what they were shown was a true reflection, I certainly wouldn't criticise anyone having a problem with the fans the TV showed.

[brine3]

Roy is not criticising the fans.

Roy wants the fans to have victories to sing about.

Stop twisting his words.

Roy is a true patriot and is only happy when Ireland wins.

[Murfinator]

Interesting comment from Shay Given I heard in todays Indo. "The fans may have come for the sing song but the players certainly didn't."

We have a more serious crop of players than we give credit for. I think Trap has been very careful picking his players to ensure this kind of atmosphere that was evidently a problem in the past, as recent as Roy Keanes time.

[bennocelt]

Roy is not criticising the fans.

Roy wants the fans to have victories to sing about.

Stop twisting his words.

Roy is a true patriot and is only happy when Ireland wins.
-
keane is no patriot, rather an ego driven grouch and a failed manager. When he himself had the chance to do something for his country and fans he scuttled on home with a strop. I did support him for a long time but hold my hand up, i was wrong on this one!!! Keane is a tramp:o

[Stuttgart88]

Roy is not criticising the fans.

Roy wants the fans to have victories to sing about.

Stop twisting his words.

Roy is a true patriot and is only happy when Ireland wins.I got a call in Poland yesterday morning saying that he had had a dig at the fans as well as the players and there was a lot of anger at his words. Maybe it was the Polish equivalent of dunphy in 90 when word got around that he said he was ashamed to be Irish, when he said it was a shameful performance (v Egypt).

I don't think he's a patriot at all. A perfectionist probably.

[Lionel Ritchie]

I tend not to follow Roy Keanes comments on anything -especially "reported" comments as there is a tendency to put the worst possible slant and inference on them. An occasional piece of insight aside he also has a tendency towards stating the bleedin obvious.

It was helpful that The Last Word last night re-broadcast his comments and to me he just sounded very frustrated with the level of our performance and was being somewhat steered into juxtaposing it with the fans. Add that to his itchy arsed, Corkonian, dead-pan delivery (Denis Irwin had it well) and a mole-hill becomes a mountain.

On the phenomenon of the singing itself - I was in contact with Dutch friends in the latter stages of the game and they said it was mesmerising. It was reported on their late news as a news item in its own right. They couldn't but compare it to the Dutch team being booed off by their own fans on Wednesday night despite their still having a live chance of making the quarter finals.
Unless something truly special happens in the next fortnight our travelling support have created the standout moment of Euro 2012 that future references to the tournament will come back to and come back to. I don't often find myself in concorde with John Delaney but he's right when he says UEFA should acknowledge it.

[dong]

Unless something truly special happens in the next fortnight our travelling support have created the standout moment of Euro 2012 that future references to the tournament will come back to and come back to. I don't often find myself in concorde with John Delaney but he's right when he says UEFA should acknowledge it.

The stand out moment?
WTF? Future references about fans singing mean nothing. And I don't agree anyways, there has been a lot of outstanding football played at ths tournament.

[barney]

I don't often find myself in concorde with John Delaney but he's right when he says UEFA should acknowledge it.

Maybe by lobbying FIFA to give us a place at the next World Cup as the 33rd side if we don't qualify outright...

It's nonsense to say UEFA should acknowledge it. Are we that desperate to be told what a great bunch of lads we are?

[texidub]

Maybe by lobbying FIFA to give us a place at the next World Cup as the 33rd side if we don't qualify outright...

It's nonsense to say UEFA should acknowledge it. Are we that desperate to be told what a great bunch of lads we are?

Low standards, low expectations, and we prefer to be liked than to be successful. Supposedly this is the mentality that drove Roy mad with the Irish camp.. and if that's true I certainly don't blame him for getting frustrated with it. Plucky losers me arse... we can do better than that. And if we celebrate failure as if we'd won the world cup, then what motivation is there to do better?

All that said, if this tournament makes our footballers realise that they are not entitled to anything without getting in the opposition's face and grafting for a win, then it'll all be for the good.

The constrast between 1988 and 2012 is not just in the quality of the players.. the 1988 team (which had world player of the year Chris Morris in it IIRC) worked their arses off. Recent Irish teams are like spoiled, Celtic Tiger cubs by comparison. Jack Charlton wasn't exactly a world beater as a manager when he came to Ireland, but apparently we need the likes of Trappatoni now, 'coz we're worth it.' Brian Kerr gets shafted coz he's not 'big' enough for a nation of four million (results weren't great, but he deserved ore time, I think). It's just delusional, Sky Sports fed cr*p, IMO.

Don't care if we lose if we show passion and drive.

I'll support the team win or lose, but the manner of the loss is important (how hard we got in their faces basically)... and as a fan, I don't feel like I have to worship (or even like) the individuals involved like some star struck teenager.

[Predator]

I'd agree with LR when he says that Keane's comments are being blown out of proportion, but talk of clinging to the fans' singing is stretching it in my view. I think we need to get over ourselves in that regard and I, for one, wasn't singing.

We have been truly awful at this tournament. That is what we should be looking at, asking why we were so bad and how we can improve - not patting ourselves on the back for having fans that cheer the team on in defeat, looking for more pats on the back from UEFA.

The singing was bloody tragic.

[IsMiseSean]

Reading this thread p***es me off.
To say
The people singing didn't care about the result is pure ignorance.
UEFA should acknowledge it is embarrassing.

As 2 Spanish guys said to me on the tram back into town "We have the best team in the world, you have the best fans" I'm f**kin proud of that!!

[Lionel Ritchie]

It's nonsense to say UEFA should acknowledge it. Are we that desperate to be told what a great bunch of lads we are? I'm not looking for pats on the back for anyone. Perhaps I should've given a little context. Russia have a six point deduction hanging over them for the next 4 years because of thuggery out of an element following them around. Croatia are facing sanction now as well because some gowl threw a banana at Balotelli.
With that in mind I've no problem with Delaney saying UEFA should acknowledge the Irish fans behaviour in counterpoint. I don't think he's looking for a 6 point head start, a 2 goal lead or a free bun. There is I believe a UEFA/FIFA supporters award and I'm guessing he's saying our support has made a decent case for it.

[tricky_colour]

I'd agree with LR when he says that Keane's comments are being blown out of proportion, but talk of clinging to the fans' singing is stretching it in my view. I think we need to get over ourselves in that regard and I, for one, wasn't singing.

We have been truly awful at this tournament. That is what we should be looking at, asking why we were so bad and how we can improve - not patting ourselves on the back for having fans that cheer the team on in defeat, looking for more pats on the back from UEFA.

The singing was bloody tragic.

You are in a tiny minority on that one, only about 1 in 200 didn't like the video.
The fans were magnificent, anyone who thinks otherwise, like Roy is an ar5ehole.

[tricky_colour]

I'm not looking for pats on the back for anyone. Perhaps I should've given a little context. Russia have a six point deduction hanging over them for the next 4 years because of thuggery out of an element following them around. Croatia are facing sanction now as well because some gowl threw a banana at Balotelli.
With that in mind I've no problem with Delaney saying UEFA should acknowledge the Irish fans behaviour in counterpoint. I don't think he's looking for a 6 point head start, a 2 goal lead or a free bun. There is I believe a UEFA/FIFA supporters award and I'm guessing he's saying our support has made a decent case for it.

Yes UEFA are showing their incompetence by acknowledging the bad behaviour and not the good.
Perhaps the Irish should go and trash Poland to get a pit of publicity for themselves?

[tricky_colour]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vemnEAuaKfg&feature=related

Another one here from after the match, maybe a few fans can spot themselves?

[tricky_colour]

Let's put it this way, the Irish fans won respect from fans all over the world, Roy Keane has lost virtually all the respect anyone every had for him. He should reflect on his own performance!!

[tricky_colour]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A_u28hTXWF8&feature=related

[tricky_colour]

Heart attack football star Fabrice Muamba said on Twitter: “Credit to the Irish fans the way they support the team. It’s incredible.”

[Murfinator]

Supporters aren't children that need praising because they performed like reasonable, responsible adults at a match. To me it could be likened to the Gardai knocking on my door congratulating me for not breaking any laws lately because the fellow next door was arrested or the woman down the street didn't pay her tv license.

The fact that our fans will have sent out a positive image to all those watching of the game while the Russian and Croatians didn't is enough for them and something they'll remember. Because we all know how corrupt FIFA and UEFA refereeing is, giving them good reason why its beneficial for us to be at their tournaments will more than likely reap dividends.

[geysir]

Because we all know how corrupt FIFA and UEFA refereeing is, giving them good reason why its beneficial for us to be at their tournaments will more than likely reap dividends.
Speak for yourself. IMO, since the first game here, the officiating has been excellent overall. The wee frenchman has done good.

On other matters, Roy's comments are clear enough, they are made in the context of the fans singing TFOA at the end of a game, that fans should not go along now and then for the sing song. Roy is clearly insinuating that those fans were there for the sing song. 'Now and then' refers to our now and then appearance at Finals.
Roy said it was nonsense that players were speaking after the game on how great the supporters are. That comment from Roy was made in the context of the post match interview with Andrews, who was asked his opinion about the fans. You could hardly hear the interview with the din.

Then we have the advent of the ubersupporter, the supporter with the superior attitude who thinks he knows what's what. The one who thinks everybody else is stupid unless they agree with him. That any fan is a brainless muppet who stood to sing TFOA.
Yes I agree with Roy to some extent, some Irish people do need to change their mentality :rolleyes:

Did Roy offer any constructive opinion on what had changed with us since 2002 when we went honourably toe for toe with Spain at the WC finals (and without our form player) and maybe what football related things should change or is it all the same chatter about changing mentality?

[Predator]

You are in a tiny minority on that one, only about 1 in 200 didn't like the video.
The fans were magnificent, anyone who thinks otherwise, like Roy is an ar5ehole.Being in the minority isn't always a bad thing. :) I can take or leave the video. People are free to sing as they please. In different circumstances (say, for example, we went through), perhaps I'd be a bit more consumed by the reaction of the fans.

But combined with our performances on the pitch against both Croatia and Spain, I thought the fans' reaction to elimination made for a tragic scene. I'd be more concerned about fixing the Irish game, than the Irish fans.

[tricky_colour]

Nothing more tragic than a fair weather supporter and a sore loser.

[Predator]

I think you're deliberately missing my point about what I see as tragic.
And there's nothing at all tragic about wanting better from the team, by the way. Neither is an unwillingness to sing after a loss a sign of a 'fair weather' supporter.

[Spudulika]

Tonight, I'm sitting watching Russia and Greece, at home, because I tried to do it out with locals, or with non-locals, but tonight I wanted to see fully how the match comes across on the small screen. And you know, it's nothing. What happened at the end of the match with Spain was truly special. I was there with 15-16,000 supporters watching a big screen, and while the majority would have classed themselves (at the beginning) as Spanish fans - amazing how many Barcelona and Spanish fans there are now that they're successful - but the whole place fell silent, as the commentators did, when The Fields of Athenry took over the scene. It was a very Irish scene, something that touched anyone with a drop of Irishness in them (note I said Irishness, not blood). I had people telling me that I should be proud as so few would try so hard yet be dignified in defeat. And while we can say, it's the story of our lives or our history, could I say that to a Russian? A Pole? A Croatian? I am very proud to be associated with the vast majority of Irish supporters not fans, like the scum that threw bananas at Balotelli. Who used a public holiday to incite violence or the scum to reacted to the incitement. Roy Keane's comments were twisted to make good copy. Looking at Daniel McDonnell's article in the Indo today and he's simply continuing his paymasters agenda - discredit O'Brien. When our media and nation get it into our heads that the sky leagues are not the be all and end all of football, THEN our football will grow.

[eekers]

Shouldn't this be in the Fans Forum?

[tricky_colour]

No I am pretty sure I posted it in here.

[DannyInvincible]

Being utterly depressed with our showing at this tournament and belting out a proud and emotional rendition of 'The Fields of Athenry' in defeat need not be incompatible. Nobody wants to see Ireland continually fail and nobody wants to celebrate that when it happens. We all want what is best for Irish football, but I just don't know if most Irish people see it. The players certainly didn't head off to Poland in holiday mode, whether Keane wants to imply they did or not. I thought the singing was admirable and dignified and it did give me a lump in my throat. It still does when I re-watch the video. However, there were 25,000 Irish fans in Gdansk the other night. The League of Ireland, on the other hand, would be lucky to get such a figure attending a full series of games over one weekend. It's just a pity that so many Irish fans valiant in defeat fail to make a connection between the defeat and the inept development infrastructure we have in place in Ireland.

What was Keane's solution, other than changing our mentality as players and supporters? We didn't lose on Sunday night simply because of mentality. We'd already lost the game years ago. The final result was just a wake-up call.

I already posted it in the league forum, but thought this was an interesting piece:

'Inferior tactics, inferior technique, inferior attitude - Euro 2012 embarrassment must bring forth a new Ireland': http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/06/15/3175112/inferior-tactics-inferior-technique-inferior-attitude-euro


What is required now is a thorough post-mortem of, not only Euro 2012, but the slow disintegration of Irish football. We cannot be expected to hone a football identity while the collapse and neglect of clubs in the Airtricity League continues. Dundalk can barely submit a week-on-week budget and the list of defunct clubs stretches uncomfortably long in the recent past.

Ireland's fans have been praised for following their national team through the thick and thin of Euro 2012 but it is a conservative estimation that less than 5% of those present in Poland will be present at a League of Ireland ground next weekend when domestic action recommences. Instead, the Manchester United jerseys and the Liverpool colours will be back on and plans will be made for a trip to Old Trafford or Anfield.

Try explaining that to a Dinamo Zagreb fan or a Celta Vigo fan. I'm sure the reverence towards Ireland's fabled support would become dubious. The supporters were lauded for singing until the final whistle. Four-nil down and singing. Asking for more. Like the nation itself voting yes in the Fiscal Pact Referendum, asking for more punishment. Enough is enough. There should have been rebellion, distaste, disgust. People have spent money they simply don't have to go to Poland and watch that rubbish. It is an insult. But it won't change so long as the supporters are identified as the perfect football fan.

And while the shunning of domestic football continues, Ireland will lose its best talents, early, to England. Promising young players will have the football coached out of them, as has been the case for generations. The Irish national team was the only squad at Euro 2012 not to have a player supplied to it by its own domestic league. That must change.

[sullanefc]

Heart attack football star Fabrice Muamba said on Twitter: “Credit to the Irish fans the way they support the team. It’s incredible.”
:D Is that what he will be known as from now on? :D

Supporters aren't children that need praising because they performed like reasonable, responsible adults at a match. To me it could be likened to the Gardai knocking on my door congratulating me for not breaking any laws lately because the fellow next door was arrested or the woman down the street didn't pay her tv license.

I think you're wrong here. I think it is important for UEFA to highlight positive fan behaviour to show other fans that violence and nastiness is not needed to create a good football atmosphere.

However, there were 25,000 Irish fans in Gdansk the other night. The League of Ireland, on the other hand, would be lucky to get such a figure attending a full series of games over one weekend. It's just a pity that so many Irish fans valiant in defeat fail to make a connection between the defeat and the inept development infrastructure we have in place in Ireland.

What was Keane's solution, other than changing our mentality as players and supporters? We didn't lose on Sunday night simply because of mentality. We'd already lost the game years ago. The final result was just a wake-up call.

I already posted it in the league forum, but thought this was an interesting piece:

'Inferior tactics, inferior technique, inferior attitude - Euro 2012 embarrassment must bring forth a new Ireland': http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/06/15/3175112/inferior-tactics-inferior-technique-inferior-attitude-euro

I'd have to agree with the sentiments of your posts DI. There is a lot wrong with Irish football that needs to be addressed, LOI attendances being one. But I think what Euro 2012 has shown us, is that the quality of our players are way behind other countries and our football philosophy is outdated. The way our schoolboys are coached is flawed, and we can't depend on the english league system to produce technically good players for us. They can't even do it for themselves.

[brine3]

Roy is talking about how the media are always going on about our great fans and how good craic we are. He agrees with this, but finds it all a bit patronising. Frankly, so do I. The paddies are great fun but can't play football. That's how we're viewed around Europe and he knows it from being in contact with football people around Europe. He wants us to be great fun AND to play great football.

It was him as captain who drove us to the World Cup in 2002 remember. We were drawn in a group with two of the best teams in Europe, and he refused to "hold the hands up and acknowledge that the other team is better." We didn't just heroically resist attacks of the other teams like previous Ireland teams did. No, we went out and owned their midfields. It's that winning mentality that brought him success and it's that winning mentality that makes him angry when he sees his country getting battered 3-1 and 4-0 at a finals. I admit that they way he said it didn't sound great, but in general I agree with him and you must understand that this man wants only the best for Ireland. He is essentially saying that the fans deserve better.

[Noelys Guitar]

When I saw the interview I didn't think Keane was slagging off the fans. He was having a go at the team. And he had another go yesterday blaming the senior players. But like other posters I'm waiting for Keane's solution.

But the former Manchester United midfielder is ready to stand by his comments, especially if challenged by players he believes do not deserve their place in the side.
"The likes of (Robbie) Keane, Shay Given, Richard Dunne, John O'Shea and Damien Duff are picked every game as they have a big reputation. A reputation for what? They hadn't qualified for anything in 10 years," he said.
"They love having a dig back when I say something but I tell you now, I'll be ready if they do because players have to be accountable for how the team did.
"I'm trying to be constructive but the manager and players all have to be accountable. It's not good shrugging our shoulders and having a sing-song."
Keane did seek to clarify his comments about the supporters, though, adding: "People seem to have misunderstood me. I've no problems with the fans singing. It's great that they back the team during and before games - but should they really stay on long after the final whistle cheering?
"There's a danger that the players think that what has happened on the pitch is acceptable, when it's not."

[bennocelt]

It's that winning mentality that brought him success and it's that winning mentality that makes him angry when he sees his country getting battered 3-1 and 4-0 at a finals. I admit that they way he said it didn't sound great, but in general I agree with him and you must understand that this man wants only the best for Ireland. He is essentially saying that the fans deserve better.


Yeah thats all very true but it does seem a little hypocritical when they very same man walked away from a world cup when he could have made such a difference to the team and his country. Did the fans deserve better then?
What about as a professional showing respect to your manager and supporters?
Keane IMHO is full of shi and is just a younger version of Dunphy.
He is not exactly giving us any clear solutions either? But he wasnt much good at managment himself

[Lionel Ritchie]

Keane did seek to clarify his comments about the supporters, though, adding: "People seem to have misunderstood me. I've no problems with the fans singing. It's great that they back the team during and before games - but should they really stay on long after the final whistle cheering?
"There's a danger that the players think that what has happened on the pitch is acceptable, when it's not." [/I]This is the only bit of Roys (further) comments I've a problem with and can only retort with a question -what mode of response, from the support, to a heavy defeat would he have preferred? The booing the Dutch team got after they lost 2-1 to Germany? ...or would he have to preffered to see them sullenly stream out before the final whistle? If the latter then that's remenicent of his "prawn sandwich brigade" that used apparently irk him so in his Old trafford days.

I think he also underestimates the Irish squads cognitive abilities to a somewhat sensationalist degree as well.

[brine3]

Yeah thats all very true but it does seem a little hypocritical when they very same man walked away from a world cup when he could have made such a difference to the team and his country. Did the fans deserve better then?

In the passing of time I have come to think that perhaps he should have remained in Saipan in 2002, as top notch facilities in Japan were only a few days away. But his reasons for his outburst were once again because he wanted to win and he wanted only the best for Ireland and had seen the shambles of a preparation that had gone on in the Irish teams for decades. You may disagree with his reaction but his reasons were genuine.

We're not talking about a player here who was sent home because he was out partying, or failed a drugs test. He demanded perfection for his team and was driven to win... to an absurd degree some might say, but that's what made him the player he was.

Keane demands the best and people keep slagging him for it. Maybe we didn't deserve him? If he had been playing for another small football country - like Sweden, Denmark, Belgium - the organisation would have been top notch and no Saipan bustup would have happened. Those countries may be no great shakes but they do the utmost to extract 100% of potential from their players. We have to stop putting up with second best.

What Keane is saying is, yeah, the fans are great, but let's not allow that to distract from the fact that the football has been rubbish. It's not a very radical statement to be honest. But then the media as usual portray it as Keane the madman having a go at the fans.

Keane may not be a good manager in the modern arena because in a way he is too bluntly honest for the modern media. He might have been a good manager 30-40 years ago when there was less media intrusion.

One thing you can be sure of is that if he had been playing for Man Utd this year then they would not have thrown away an 8 point lead. Because the man was a leader on the pitch and in the dressing room. As we saw for Ireland. But instead of embracing that we reject it. Typical Irish... "who does he think he is"

[bennocelt]

cringing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lqf6t7ruI

[DannyInvincible]

I'd have to agree with the sentiments of your posts DI. There is a lot wrong with Irish football that needs to be addressed, LOI attendances being one. But I think what Euro 2012 has shown us, is that the quality of our players are way behind other countries and our football philosophy is outdated. The way our schoolboys are coached is flawed, and we can't depend on the english league system to produce technically good players for us. They can't even do it for themselves.

I agree and would argue it's all connected. I'm all for freedom of choice, but those Irish football supporters who invest time and money en masse in foreign league clubs and structures have the power to aid progress at home if only they'd realise this or were prepared to sacrifice the short-term gratification of supporting a Premier League/SPL club for concentrating their support domestically in the hope of it paying off in the long term. It's a terrible shame, but I can't tell people how to spend their cash.

There is no doubt that a strong domestic league is directly proportional to the development of a strong national team. I'd argue our national side's relative success, or punching above its weight, to date is somewhat of an anomaly in European football in the sense that there is very little connection between our domestic league and national team.

Croatia is a country of 4.5 million people with a league ranked 21st in Europe. The League of Ireland is ranked 33rd in comparison. Denmark - with a population of 5.5 million - has a well-supported league ranked 13th in Europe. There's no reason why we shouldn't be viewing these regular finals qualifiers as some form of inspiration. Have a look through the Croatian squad and - excepting Šimunić and Rakitić - note the origin of all their players. They must be doing something right domestically. It's a credit to the small pool available to them how well they do internationally on a regular basis.

It is peddled as a matter of pride that our national team regularly includes five or six players with their roots in League of Ireland football now - and rightly so - but that should be the norm rather than an exception to celebrate. We can't continue to rely on scraps from clubs in England and Scotland. That approach is failing even the English and Scottish national teams. British clubs don't have the best interests of Irish players at heart; why should they? It's not like they'll focus on Irish players for the sake of Irish football; they'll happily discard those players "lucky" enough to have been spotted in the first place when they deem them surplus to requirements. Focusing on and developing Irish talent should be the FAI's responsibility and the Irish public can help with that by backing the domestic structures that are in place. Of course, the domestic structures are imperfect and lack a sense of integration - there is no real pyramid - but that's something the FAI have to sort out. In the mean time, those who want the best for Irish football could reconsider where they're spending their money. Not that the FAI should abuse any forthcoming good will by failing to bring our infrastructure into line either. Of course, this is all pie-in-the-sky stuff as I don't actually envisage the wake-up call of our so utterly pedestrian performance at these championships being heeded by either the FAI or the "great Irish sporting public".

[tricky_colour]

I think you're deliberately missing my point about what I see as tragic.
And there's nothing at all tragic about wanting better from the team, by the way. Neither is an unwillingness to sing after a loss a sign of a 'fair weather' supporter.



But it is it is precisely the definition of a fair weather supporter, for you to say otherwise is disingenuous.
The weather is the result and the support is the singing if you won't sing after a defeat you are the very epitome of a
fair weather supporter whether you realise it or not. (which you apparently don't)

[tricky_colour]

Being utterly depressed with our showing at this tournament and belting out a proud and emotional rendition of 'The Fields of Athenry' in defeat need not be incompatible. Nobody wants to see Ireland continually fail and nobody wants to celebrate that when it happens. We all want what is best for Irish football, but I just don't know if most Irish people see it. The players certainly didn't head off to Poland in holiday mode, whether Keane wants to imply they did or not. I thought the singing was admirable and dignified and it did give me a lump in my throat. It still does when I re-watch the video. However, there were 25,000 Irish fans in Gdansk the other night. The League of Ireland, on the other hand, would be lucky to get such a figure attending a full series of games over one weekend. It's just a pity that so many Irish fans valiant in defeat fail to make a connection between the defeat and the inept development infrastructure we have in place in Ireland.

What was Keane's solution, other than changing our mentality as players and supporters? We didn't lose on Sunday night simply because of mentality. We'd already lost the game years ago. The final result was just a wake-up call.

I already posted it in the league forum, but thought this was an interesting piece:

'Inferior tactics, inferior technique, inferior attitude - Euro 2012 embarrassment must bring forth a new Ireland': http://www.goal.com/en-gb/news/3284/euro-2012/2012/06/15/3175112/inferior-tactics-inferior-technique-inferior-attitude-euro


Unfortunately Ireland are right next to the Premier league a league which like a leech sucks the life out of smaller leagues
Ireland being the closest gets sucked dry.
It would perhaps be tether if Ireland had regional football clubs as in Rugby, ie Munster Leinster etc...
Let's face it there would be no interest in the Rugby if the clubs were on the same scale as the soccor clubs.

[tricky_colour]

:D Is that what he will be known as from now on? :D
I just copied the quote from a paper, one of the UK tabloids I think.
Actually the Daily Telegraph uses the same expression

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education/educationnews/9282801/Liam-Stacey-Twitter-Fabrice-Muamba-attacker-banned-from-university.html

[QUOTE]
Liam Stacey, a student jailed for using Twitter to mock heart attack football star Fabrice Muamba, has been banned from his university for the remainder of the year, officials have confirmed

So yea he will indeed be remembered for his heart attack more than his football.

[DannyInvincible]

Unfortunately Ireland are right next to the Premier league a league which like a leech sucks the life out of smaller leagues
Ireland being the closest gets sucked dry.
It would perhaps be tether if Ireland had regional football clubs as in Rugby, ie Munster Leinster etc...
Let's face it there would be no interest in the Rugby if the clubs were on the same scale as the soccor clubs.

Not sure what geographical proximity has to do with it. The SPL is much-better supported than the LOI, despite Scotland sharing a border with England.

[tricky_colour]

Roy is talking about how the media are always going on about our great fans and how good craic we are. He agrees with this, but finds it all a bit patronising. Frankly, so do I. The paddies are great fun but can't play football. That's how we're viewed around Europe and he knows it from being in contact with football people around Europe. He wants us to be great fun AND to play great football.

It was him as captain who drove us to the World Cup in 2002 remember. We were drawn in a group with two of the best teams in Europe, and he refused to "hold the hands up and acknowledge that the other team is better." We didn't just heroically resist attacks of the other teams like previous Ireland teams did. No, we went out and owned their midfields. It's that winning mentality that brought him success and it's that winning mentality that makes him angry when he sees his country getting battered 3-1 and 4-0 at a finals. I admit that they way he said it didn't sound great, but in general I agree with him and you must understand that this man wants only the best for Ireland. He is essentially saying that the fans deserve better.


We did pretty well without Roy at the Finals. We were far from a one man side.

This was the team V Spain

Rep of Ireland: Given, Gary Kelly (Quinn 55), Staunton (Cunningham 50), Breen, Harte (Connolly 82), Finnan, Kinsella, Holland, Kilbane, Duff, Keane.

Subs Not Used: Carsley, Dunne, Kiely, McAteer, Morrison, O'Brien, Reid, Alan Kelly.


Several of the player there are now 10 years older, and 10 seconds slower!!

What annoyed me most was I thought we had a genuine chance of winning it, but Roy decided otherwise!! (Thanks Roy!!).

[tricky_colour]

cringing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lqf6t7ruI

Great to see us winning something after all these years.

[Stuttgart88]

Good jaysus

[osarusan]

But it is it is precisely the definition of a fair weather supporter, for you to say otherwise is disingenuous.
The weather is the result and the support is the singing if you won't sing after a defeat you are the very epitome of a
fair weather supporter whether you realise it or not. (which you apparently don't)
This is absolute horsesh!t.

If you don't sing after a defeat, you're not a real fan, just a fairweather fan? What utterly ignorant patronising nonsense.

I've supported Limerick FC since 1989 - we were last in the premier division 17 years ago. A season ticket holder too, I've been to hundreds and hundreds of games, home and away, from Donegal to Wexford. I would say that I've followed them through thick and thin, except there has been nothing other than thin in the last 17 years. Yet because I've never sung after one of our very many defeats, by your retarded definition, I'm not a real fan.

[Crosby87]

Tricky VS Osarusan, with Stutts in the jam.

I for one, which is meaningless, want the two of you to just agree to disagree.

Fudging fantastic it is, BTW, you both make great points.

[tricky_colour]

This is absolute norsesh!t.

If you don't sing after a defeat, you're not a real fan, just a fairweather fan? What utterly ignorant patronising nonsense.

I've supported Limerick FC since 1989 - we were last in the premier division 17 years ago. A season ticket holder too, I've been to hundreds and hundreds of games, home and away, from Donegal to Wexford. I would say that I've followed them through thick and thin, except there has been nothing other than thin in the last 17 years. Yet because I've never sung after one of our very many defeats, by your retarded definition, I'm not a real fan.

But have you considered if you had sang after a defeat the results might have pick up and Limerick could have gone on to win the Champions league?


Anyway, reminded me a bit of the 1991 FA cup semi final when Forest won 4-0, my abiding memory of that (I was there) was the incessant chanting of "Billy Bonds claret and blue army" (and stomping of feet) even thought they had lost, they seemed to do it for the whole of the second half. Kind of took the shine off the victory for me, but I thought it showed great support even though they had lost.

I found a video of it but the chanting does not really come across on it, however one of the comment does sum it up nicely


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORgwn203a_4


"Hope you remember the West Ham fans singing non stop throughout the match putting the Forest fans to shame."

Indeed you do hear the chant at the start, and their fans did put Forests fans to shame, despite losing.

However it is an interesting video as it features a young 19 year old Roy Keane!! He got an assist for the first and scores the second (~2.25). (Forest lost the final).

Anyhow I see the singing in part as a "thanks for qualifying" something we have not done for a long time.

[Predator]

But it is it is precisely the definition of a fair weather supporter, for you to say otherwise is disingenuous.
The weather is the result and the support is the singing if you won't sing after a defeat you are the very epitome of a
fair weather supporter whether you realise it or not. (which you apparently don't)You're talking nonsense, I'm afraid.