Fields of Athenry - Ireland v Spain, Gdansk

[bennocelt]

E Sweeney's take on it

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/euro-2012-we-deserve-better-than-this-3140399.html

[barney]

E Sweeney's take on it

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/euro-2012-we-deserve-better-than-this-3140399.html

I agree with the sentiment behind the article but the writer does himself no favours with some of the uncalled for bias that peppers it.

Armenia are much better than their ranking at the beginning of the qualification suggested.
Paul Green was not at fault for the 4th goal. Ronnie Whelan suggested it in commentary and the nation was happy to jump on it because it was Green and it fit an agenda.
Paul Green had an offer at Derby as I understand it but rejected it and they let him go. He wasn’t just f**ked out because they didn’t want him.
Darron Gibson is a decent ballplayer but he has been mediocre for us (and Man U – I haven’t seen much of him for Everton)

That said, as much as I like Trap, Sweeney is basically right in much of what he says.

[Lionel Ritchie]

E Sweeney's take on it

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/euro-2012-we-deserve-better-than-this-3140399.html

Mildly entertaining article but the real side splitter is that picture of Roxette in the competition on the right hand column. Yer wan looks 20 years younger than she looked 20 years ago ...or have they been making the kind of radical changes up front that Trap would shirk?

[Stuttgart88]

Well said Barney but I think Gibson has only played once for us since going to Everton and has done well. Sweeney's argument would have been better made if it had appreciated the nuances you introduced above. I think the Marc Wilson discipline thing mentioned by sweeney doesn't hold much water either btw.

[bennocelt]

http://backpagefootball.com/best-fans-in-the-world-not-quite/42808/

[Murfinator]

cringing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6lqf6t7ruI

Pathetic. :(

[eekers]

I thought this was spot on http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/euro-2012-the-fields-of-athenry-lie-low-beneath-a-river-of-cheap-booze-3140410.html

Also the exact same behaviour back at home a few months ago caused all sorts of outrage and controversy, but out in Poland we're the best fans in the world etc.
Remember this? how is this different than how we're behaving in Poland?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFzSfdtCqPg

[geysir]

I thought this was spot on http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/euro-2012-the-fields-of-athenry-lie-low-beneath-a-river-of-cheap-booze-3140410.html

Also the exact same behaviour back at home a few months ago caused all sorts of outrage and controversy, but out in Poland we're the best fans in the world etc.
Remember this? how is this different than how we're behaving in Poland?

I don't know eekers, you were there in Poland to see for yourself, that you thought Dion Fanning was spot on, you tell us how different it was in Poznan from that you tube thing?

[Stuttgart88]

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Crowd behaviour expectations at a football festival are very different to what local public / police / bar owners expect during normal periods.

I'd have been horrified if some of the behaviour of some Irish in my train carriage on the way to Sopot was repaeted outside a football tournament. In the context of a football tournament or any football game what would be considered yobbish in other circumstances is part of the event. But in a football tournament you expect singing and boisterousness and it's actually to be welcomed as long as a line isn't crossed over into threatening, rude or violent behaviour. I saw a lot of very drunken but equally harmless behaviour over in Poland.

According to the Indo here's what the locals thought of us:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/so-lonely-round-the-streets-of-poznan-polish-city-throws-a-goodbye-party-for-irish-fans-3140886.html

Edit: just read the Fanning article. I have to say it did strike me that my time has come and gone. I would have no appetite whatsoever to do the amount of drinking some lads got up to and though I like my drink I don't like drinking more just for the sake of it.

[tricky_colour]

You're talking nonsense, I'm afraid.

I'm trying to speak to you on your own your level.

[eekers]

I don't know eekers, you were there in Poland to see for yourself, that you thought Dion Fanning was spot on, you tell us how different it was in Poznan from that you tube thing?

You'd have to be at both Galway rag week and in Poland to compare them.
But my point is people looked at Youtube footage of Galway Rag week and through it a disgrace, then people look at footage from Poland and think its all a great laugh.

Kids were kicked out of college because of drunken behaviour at Galway Rag week, yet its completely acceptable for the man running Irish football holding court to a throng of drunken eejits.

As far I'm concerned this man should look at his behaviour once he gets home and resign.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=affbvK4UZgc

[tricky_colour]

I thought this was spot on http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/euro-2012-the-fields-of-athenry-lie-low-beneath-a-river-of-cheap-booze-3140410.html

Also the exact same behaviour back at home a few months ago caused all sorts of outrage and controversy, but out in Poland we're the best fans in the world etc.
Remember this? how is this different than how we're behaving in Poland?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dFzSfdtCqPg



Seems a severe distortion of reality, the Poles loved the Irish fans.

Funny how everything is twisted around isn't it, we have the best fans in the world but some are
trying to make out they are the worst, you could not make it up.

Same as Roy Keane there is no pleasing him, if the fans were not singing he would be saying "Where's the support? We have the worst support in the competition"
If Sledge had not thanked the fan's he would be going "And he never thanked the fans, why is he ignoring the supporters???"
Had we won 10-0 he would be going, why stop at 10, there were 20 goals to be had there, but they sat back on their laurels,
saving themselves for the partying and the drinking, it was a fecking disgrace, we're the worst team in the competition, we should
be send home for not trying........(more mindless drivel)...."

[tricky_colour]

I'm not sure that's a fair comparison. Crowd behaviour expectations at a football festival are very different to what local public / police / bar owners expect during normal periods.

I'd have been horrified if some of the behaviour of some Irish in my train carriage on the way to Sopot was repaeted outside a football tournament. In the context of a football tournament or any football game what would be considered yobbish in other circumstances is part of the event. But in a football tournament you expect singing and boisterousness and it's actually to be welcomed as long as a line isn't crossed over into threatening, rude or violent behaviour. I saw a lot of very drunken but equally harmless behaviour over in Poland.

According to the Indo here's what the locals thought of us:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/euro-2012/irish-news/so-lonely-round-the-streets-of-poznan-polish-city-throws-a-goodbye-party-for-irish-fans-3140886.html

Edit: just read the Fanning article. I have to say it did strike me that my time has come and gone. I would have no appetite whatsoever to do the amount of drinking some lads got up to and though I like my drink I don't like drinking more just for the sake of it.

I would take the word of hundreds of polish people who have commented in a positive manner about the Irish fans over one crappy journalist
anyway.

It sees some Irish feel the need to engage in a period of self-flagellation

[geysir]

You'd have to be at both Galway rag week and in Poland to compare them.
But my point is people looked at Youtube footage of Galway Rag week and through it a disgrace, then people look at footage from Poland and think its all a great laugh.
Your point was that Fanning's article was spot on. If you were not there in Poland how on earth do you know if you share Fanning's perspective?


Kids were kicked out of college because of drunken behaviour at Galway Rag week, yet its completely acceptable for the man running Irish football holding court to a throng of drunken eejits.
I see very little comparison in the 2 videos between Galway rag week behaviour and the Irish fans in the video.
Delaney's behaviour as FAI chief exec is another matter, but if some people want to engage with him in some merry harmless pranks that's entirely their business.
Unless anyone can be shocked that Irish fans do congregate in designated places to drink alcohol, engage in sing songs and all entirely to the complete satisfaction of their hosts.

[OwlsFan]

Frankly I am astounded by the negative reaction of some people, including that tool Fanning who only has his job because his daddy owned the paper, to the great support the Irish fans have shown the team in Poland. I was there for the game in Poznan. I have videos of great banter between the Croat fans and the Irish fans. While I saw many merry/drunk Irish (and Croat) fans, I saw no fans causing trouble, lying in the gutter and their support for the team was immense. I saw no one manking an "eejit of himself" (other than our tour operator but that's another story). It is so curmudgeonly and begruding for people to criticise the support. The latter word is defined as:

4. to sustain (a person, the mind, spirits, courage, etc.) under trial or affliction: They supported him throughout his ordeal.

Each can deal with defeat in his/her own way. There is no correct way to do it but I will always condemn those who boo a team who have lost when the players gave it their all. People who sing to lift the spirits of the team who have lost badly are not celebrating the defeat. They are not eejits. They are supporters just as the ones who left the stadium unable to join in are also supporters. The Sindo piece was typical bandwagoning. Gerald Keane/Lisa Murphy and the rugby fraternity are the icons of the Indo. 'Nuff said.

[Charlie Darwin]

Frankly I am astounded by the negative reaction of some people, including that tool Fanning who only has his job because his daddy owned the paper, to the great support the Irish fans have shown the team in Poland. I was there for the game in Poznan. I have videos of great banter between the Croat fans and the Irish fans. While I saw many merry/drunk Irish (and Croat) fans, I saw no fans causing trouble, lying in the gutter and their support for the team was immense. I saw no one manking an "eejit of himself" (other than our tour operator but that's another story). It is so curmudgeonly and begruding for people to criticise the support. The latter word is defined as:

4. to sustain (a person, the mind, spirits, courage, etc.) under trial or affliction: They supported him throughout his ordeal.

Each can deal with defeat in his/her own way. There is no correct way to do it but I will always condemn those who boo a team who have lost when the players gave it their all. People who sing to lift the spirits of the team who have lost badly are not celebrating the defeat. They are not eejits. They are supporters just as the ones who left the stadium unable to join in are also supporters. The Sindo piece was typical bandwagoning. Gerald Keane/Lisa Murphy and the rugby fraternity are the icons of the Indo. 'Nuff said.
His daddy was the editor, not the owner. Now his step-mammy is the editor.

[Metrostars]

Irish football in a microcosm:

20000 Irish fans in Poland singing their guts out
3 days later an Irish club goes out of business and nobody cares

[Stuttgart88]

Dumb comparison. Irish national team playing against best teams in the world is more appealing than watching Monaghan. I'm shocked.

[Philly]

Dumb comparison. Irish national team playing against best teams in the world is more appealing than watching Monaghan. I'm shocked.

Football isn't just about being in big stadiums and having a sing-song though, that's the point. It's about alot more than that.

[dong]

We are seriously inbred with drink in this country.
A debate for another place I suppose.

[Noelys Guitar]

'Irish fans high on Latte's bore locals to death' in 2024 World Cup exclusive by Kevin Filth.

[Stuttgart88]

Football isn't just about being in big stadiums and having a sing-song though, that's the point. It's about alot more than that.Duh, don't you think I get that? Did you read my post on fan typology / motivation?

Mongahan's demise probably has more to do with the people of Mongahan than anyone in Poznan tonight. Start pointing the finger there.

[Stuttgart88]

We are seriously inbred with drink in this country.
A debate for another place I suppose.

That's a fair point. I lost count of the number of people I knew who I met going to bed after I had had my breakfast!

[brine3]

The question that needs asking:

If Ireland were battered 3-1, 4-0 and 2-0 in consecutive matches at Lansdowne Road, would we be singing them off the pitch? You can bet we wouldn't. There'd be a loud chorus of boos.

But when we're at the Euopean Championship we like to keep up appearances. We're good Europeans. We pass treaties and never boo. Move along now. There'll be more Youtube clips of the brilliant Irish fans on YouTube tomorrow for the world to see.

Pity there's just the one goal to look at.

I saw Robbie Keane at it again in the post-match interview, speaking with no emotion, think of his hollliers, "oh well, you have to hold your hands up and say you lost to the better team."

[SkStu]

Duh, don't you think I get that? Did you read my post on fan typology / motivation?.

Right, so theres two types of fan in this world - barstoolers and LOI fans.

[tricky_colour]

We are seriously inbred with drink in this country.
A debate for another place I suppose.


Same as France or Portugal and similar to many other European Countries.
Within 10% of most European countries, You are pushing a stereo type which has no
truth to it. 13 European countries drink more.

[Stuttgart88]

If Ireland were battered 3-1, 4-0 and 2-0 in consecutive matches at Lansdowne Road, would we be singing them off the pitch? There'd be a loud chorus of boos.I've rarely heard boos at LR. I think we'd be pretty unlucky, or stupid, to play Croatia, Spain and Italy in 8 days in Dublin. You obviously have no sense of context whatsoever. You boo if you want to, I'm behind the BIG.

[brine3]

There was most recently booing at Lansdowne Road when we drew 0-0 against Slovakia. We didn't even get beat and there was booing. There certainly wasn't 20 rounds of the Fields of Athenry then.

I've never booed Ireland myself, but I've never sung them off the park after they've been rubbish either.

[Murfinator]

Same as France or Portugal and similar to many other European Countries.
Within 10% of most European countries, You are pushing a stereo type which has no
truth to it. 13 European countries drink more.

Misleading stat considering the amount of mild social drinking and drinking with meals that goes on in other countries. The Irish don't consume alcohol the most but the Irish most certainly abuse alcohol the most.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=9624 - Irish spend most on alcohol in the EU
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=5276 - Irish spend most on alcohol in the world
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0422/1224268876786.html - Irish highest rate of binge drinking in the EU
http://www.irishcentral.com/story/roots/emeraldextracts/one-in-five-woman-in-ireland-drink-while-pregnant-111103999.html - Irish highest rate of pregnant women who drink.

I remember reading an article in the Indo prior to the tournament about this being the perfect time to show the world we've advanced beyond the drunken paddy caricature. Suffice to say we haven't, sadly.

[bennocelt]

Didnt think that silly alochol stat needed a reply. Doh - Ireland and drink, really!!! Never

[osarusan]

Mongahan's demise probably has more to do with the people of Mongahan than anyone in Poznan tonight. Start pointing the finger there.
But the whole point is that they're the same people. I'll guess there were a couple of hundred Monaghan people in Poland, virtually none of whom have ever been to a Monaghan game.

Can you see that from the perspective of an LOI fan, it rankles somewhat to see terms like 'best fans in the world' being thrown about (and Delaney actually looking for some kind of recognition from UEFA) when this is the case, not just for Monaghan but for every LOI club?

On a similar thread on Boards.ie, a poster commented that the description 'best fans at the finals stage of a major tournament' might be more more accurate, and I'd agree.

[tricky_colour]

Misleading stat considering the amount of mild social drinking and drinking with meals that goes on in other countries. The Irish don't consume alcohol the most but the Irish most certainly abuse alcohol the most.

http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=9624 - Irish spend most on alcohol in the EU
http://www.irishhealth.com/article.html?id=5276 - Irish spend most on alcohol in the world
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2010/0422/1224268876786.html - Irish highest rate of binge drinking in the EU
http://www.irishcentral.com/story/roots/emeraldextracts/one-in-five-woman-in-ireland-drink-while-pregnant-111103999.html - Irish highest rate of pregnant women who drink.

I remember reading an article in the Indo prior to the tournament about this being the perfect time to show the world we've advanced beyond the drunken paddy caricature. Suffice to say we haven't, sadly.

It does not matter what type of drinking you do really it is more the total amount.

Let's try dealing with some fact that really matter, binge drinking is not a problem, it's good for you.

Further more

Here are some stats you might not like at all.

1. Ireland has the second lowest death rate from liver cirrhosis in Europe!! 1/3 that of Austria, 1/2 that of France Denmark Germany Portugal
and lower than that of the UK, indeed everyone apart from the Dutch.

So if you want the Irish to drink more socially with meals and die of liver cirrhosis fair enough, personally I do not
think it is a price worth paying unless you are very image conscious and see having a good time as a 'bad thing'.

Here are the stats for you, careful you don't spill your glass of wine on the table cloth!!!
http://ec.europa.eu/health/archive/ph_determinants/life_style/alcohol/documents/alcohol_factsheet_en.pdf

[tricky_colour]

Didnt think that silly alochol stat needed a reply. Doh - Ireland and drink, really!!! Never

They are meaning less stats to justify high rates of alcohol tax in Ireland,
and then they hav audacity to come out with "Irish spend most on booze" when the reality is "Irish have the highest regressive alcohol taxes in the world", mind you a right wing paper will want to keep quiet about high regressive tares so the millionaire can continue to avoid
paying any taxes.

[BonnieShels]

Here are the stats for you, careful you don't spill your glass of wine on the table cloth!!!


That's A-grade bitch slappin' right there.

[Stuttgart88]

But the whole point is that they're the same people. I'll guess there were a couple of hundred Monaghan people in Poland, virtually none of whom have ever been to a Monaghan game.

Can you see that from the perspective of an LOI fan, it rankles somewhat to see terms like 'best fans in the world' being thrown about (and Delaney actually looking for some kind of recognition from UEFA) when this is the case, not just for Monaghan but for every LOI club?

On a similar thread on Boards.ie, a poster commented that the description 'best fans at the finals stage of a major tournament' might be more more accurate, and I'd agree.

I dunno. There's a big Monagahan United flag at every game. My mate from Monaghan is both a United and RoI die hard, and I even gave money to the "save the club" whip around he organised before the tournament.

I'd agree with the description on boards.ie, but that's splitting hairs. That's what people mean.

[brine3]

It seems the Irish livers are resistant, because that PDF shows that the Irish are top drinkers in terms of consumption per year and top binge drinkers as well, yet liver disease is low.

I was personally quite uncomfortable with the level of drinking going on in Poland. Thought the atmosphere was rubbish to be honest. Have had a much better time at less glamorous away games where a) there are real football people and b) people are less locked and more interested in talking about football.

[geysir]

Personally I prefer a swim, walk the dog, anything but alcohol to calm the pre-match nerves. Each to their own I suppose. The main thing is that the behaviour of those alcohol fuelled supporters stays well within the realms of social acceptability.

[OwlsFan]

Football isn't just about being in big stadiums and having a sing-song though, that's the point. It's about alot more than that.

What are the SUPPORTers who have gone to Poland to SUPPORT their team suppose to do? Be condemned for SUPPORTing their team? We are not talking about football in general terms or Monaghan United. We are talking about Irish supporters who went in their tens of thousands to support their team which they did yet they get attacked for it. Unbelievable. There are some huge chips on some people's shoulders here.

[sparky12345678]

Just wanted to say a few things.

When I watched the match (at a **ty "irish" bar in the middle of knowhere in Italy), it was great to hear the fans singing. My friends were impressed that despite the massive loss they outsang the Spanish. Even tho we couldnt hear it well, it was still as clear as ive ever heard fans sing at matches through the TV.
When i posted on facebook several fans posted that its a the way football should be followed, not violently or aggressively but proudly. Many were envious.

That said my Spanish friend said something like

"but the Irish fans clearly dont care that they lost, i imagine if they lost at rugby they wouldnt still be singing".
this was down to his misconception that Rugby (international or otherwise) is more popular than soccer *because* we are more successful in it...

This is one of the problems that our sky football generation dont really undestand. Its not about winning. Its not about success. You dont follow a team because its successful (which is all too common now for irish fans following english clubs).
Real fans (and not just LOI fans) follow their club, their team no matter what. No matter how bad the coach might be, or the club board, or the players or the stadium etc but follow nonetheless and sing nonetheless...

[irishultra]

Look, tbh I think its the fact that a lot of people find the 'best fans in the world' stuff very cringey, and the oh look how great we are comments. If we had heard the Danes singing like that we'd be impressed

[Stuttgart88]

The Irish rugby fans don't even sing when they're winning.

There's some massive chips on shoulders alright.

There are definitely casually interested people who made the trip mainly for the spectacle and for the craic, but what these tournaments prove is that there is a demand for a good quality football product among the Irish. Feck all people ever went to watch AIL rugby (I know, I was one of only a couple of hundred every second Saturday to watch Terenure College in the 90s) but, hey presto, introduce a league or a cup with some of the world's best players on show and people turn up in droves.

For years the RoI team drew great crowds until the recession and the Trap borefest turned them away - the latter being more important I reckon. There are a whole host of reasons, many outside its control, why the LOI doesn't draw big crowds. You can't just say the potential support base should just turn up out of some sense of local duty.

I wasn't embarrassed at all by the Irish fans.

[brine3]

1969.

The last time we were beaten by a four goal margin in a competitive match.

I suppose that's worth singing about.

[Stuttgart88]

ah get over yourself. We lost to a side that will go down in history. We should have all booed and thrown chairs around town instead. Would that have made you happier?

[brine3]

No, I didn't say that.

[Predator]

An unease with the idea of singing after a series of embarrassing defeats does not mean that one desires the opposite extreme.

[Predator]

The Polish fans were also in fine voice during the tournament from what I could hear. In fact, they feel so strongly about their team that they're willing to fight for it, great spirit, heart and pride. Best fans in the world.

[Murfinator]

An unease with the idea of singing after a series of embarrassing defeats does not mean that one desires the opposite extreme.

Exactly

[Stuttgart88]

No, I didn't say that.So you'd have preferred if we just stayed quiet then. It's hard to know exactly what you are saying, other than you seem to be sneering at the thought of supporters singing during / after a bad defeat

As said often enough here, I don't think anyone was anything other than bitterly disappointed by the outcome of that game.

The fans were there to support their team and have a good holiday in Poland at the same time. I honestly don't see the problem with that. The players themselves said that the support made them even more determined to get something out of game 3.

[sullanefc]

The players themselves said that the support made them even more determined to get something out of game 3.
Lip service. I would expect them to be fully determined whether the fans sang or not.

[Murfinator]

He's saying fans can show respectful support through the pain of difficult circumstances. Like every other countries fans did who went out, you might not understand it but tears and sadness is in itself showing great support. It shows how much the team and the occasion means to you and that you share the players sense of importance in the outcome.

The scenes I've seen from our fans are what I'd liken to what I saw during the Ireland Rugby teams trip to the US a couple of years ago. The match was in a college stadium and the majority of attendants were from the local university. People who had never seen a rugby game before and didn't know the slightest thing of the rules but yet were interested in the occasion and the event. They were just happy to be there and enjoyed the day. They sang when their team did something well, when they conceded, when the ref gave them a decision etc. Singing and jeering out of irony a lot of the time and you could tell the match itself didn't mean the slightest thing to them, but the occasion was everything and they made sure to enjoy it.
Much nicer type of fans in opposition then say mouthy kiwis who the occasion means nothing and the result everything but I know which set of supporters I'd much rather for my country.