Fields of Athenry - Ireland v Spain, Gdansk

[barney]

So you'd have preferred if we just stayed quiet then. It's hard to know exactly what you are saying, other than you seem to be sneering at the thought of supporters singing during / after a bad defeat

As said often enough here, I don't think anyone was anything other than bitterly disappointed by the outcome of that game.

The fans were there to support their team and have a good holiday in Poland at the same time. I honestly don't see the problem with that. The players themselves said that the support made them even more determined to get something out of game 3.

I suppose for some people, the thought of your team losing, if the team really meant anything to you, is gut wrenching. As we all know, it can leave you in a state where you want to beat the wife and kick the dog and lock yourself in a room for a week. Particularly if you've built yourself up for a particular game/tournament. That's how I react to defeat. Some people hurt that way but react by singing.

The suspicion is that there were a lot of people out there who weren't really hurt by the defeats and just sang along because "begorrah aren't we a great little country and wasn't the beer good and shur it's just an ould sing a long and bit of fun anyway and I'm on me holidays".

If someone was really hurting inside and decided to sing to deal with it, then I take my hat off to them. It's just hard to believe that there were so many of that type of person at the Spain and Italy games.

[Stuttgart88]

Lip service. I would expect them to be fully determined whether the fans sang or not.

So why do fans bother singing at all then, ever?

Jaysus, if they'd turned up in hordes and stayed quiet (as they often do at Lansdowne) they'd get criticised too. It's hard to see how they can win.

Turn up and sing. Embarrassing.
Turn up and don't sing. Embarrassing.
Don't turn up. Barstoolers.

I don't think Germany would have felt compelled to sing in such circumstances but these have been ten hard years for RoI fans and I think they're within their rights to make the most of it while they're there. As far as I could tell, the FoA started in the corner to Shay's right where all the away regulars were (I think) located. If that's the case, then these guys can behave how they want. If it's not the case, it doesn't change my point.

We'd all have preferred if we were celebrating a result, but singing and showing pride in your team and country isn't cringeworthy at all.

Lack of support for the LOI is an entirely different matter, as is just being happy to be there - which was not the case for the vast majority. If some people were just there for the party then that's their call, but I think it'd be wrong to assume that this was the representative portion of the crowd.

[Stuttgart88]

Barney, I react on my gut instincts. I feel sick sometimes when we lose or drop silly points. Israel home and away (worst feeling since the Hand era for me), Slovakia away (2-2), Cyprus away and many others down the years hurt like hell. Trust me, by 80 minutes in Gdansk the hurt had long since set in but to me it just didn't feel as bad as, say, Israel away, because we could see it coming and it was expected. Sure I had some naive hope that we'd be hard for Spain to play against but deep down there was no real negative surprise and all that was left was to sing. Also, the reaction was in some way showing that we were taking the defeat on the chin, rather than going off into a sulk.

[barney]

So why do fans bother singing at all then, ever?

Jaysus, if they'd turned up in hordes and stayed quiet (as they often do at Lansdowne) they'd get criticised too. It's hard to see how they can win.

Turn up and sing. Embarrassing.
Turn up and don't sing. Embarrassing.
Don't turn up. Barstoolers.

I don't think Germany would have felt compelled to sing in such circumstances but these have been ten hard years for RoI fans and I think they're within their rights to make the most of it while they're there. As far as I could tell, the FoA started in the corner to Shay's right where all the away regulars were (I think) located. If that's the case, then these guys can behave how they want. If it's not the case, it doesn't change my point.

We'd all have preferred if we were celebrating a result, but singing and showing pride in your team and country isn't cringeworthy at all.

Lack of support for the LOI is an entirely different matter, as is just being happy to be there - which was not the case for the vast majority. If some people were just there for the party then that's their call, but I think it'd be wrong to assume that this was the representative portion of the crowd.

I've no problem with fans singing at all. And if it happened at a LOI ground then I wouldn't give this a second thought. And I'm sure there were genuine fans singing and fair play to them. However, I'd also bet my bottom dollar that there were people who had barely been to any of the qualifiers, have rarely set foot inside a LOI ground, have only gone to see their English team once or twice in their lifetimes that were singing and are revelling in the "best fans in the world" tag and that's a bit tough to take.

[barney]

Barney, I react on my gut instincts. I feel sick sometimes when we lose or drop silly points. Israel home and away (worst feeling since the Hand era for me), Slovakia away (2-2), Cyprus away and many others down the years hurt like hell. Trust me, by 80 minutes in Gdansk the hurt had long since set in but to me it just didn't feel as bad as, say, Israel away, because we could see it coming and it was expected. Sure I had some naive hope that we'd be hard for Spain to play against but deep down there was no real negative surprise and all that was left was to sing. Also, the reaction was in some way showing that we were taking the defeat on the chin, rather than going off into a sulk.

Fair enough, can't argue with that at all.

[Stuttgart88]

However, I'd also bet my bottom dollar that there were people who had barely been to any of the qualifiers, have rarely set foot inside a LOI ground, have only gone to see their English team once or twice in their lifetimes that were singing and are revelling in the "best fans in the world" tag and that's a bit tough to take.I'd say you're right but I also think you might be overestimating the numbers. I can tell you for sure that the guy behind me was an ignorant ill-informed tw@t!

[osarusan]

Here's a post of mine from another forum:


I got up at 3.30am here in Tokyo to watch the game, and it was the high point of what was otherwise a nightmare.

I don't see what the fuss is about really, although I can agree that there is a slightly annoying element of "Jaysus aren't we great?" about the whole thing (much like after we didn't boo the English anthem in Croke park).

I don't think there is any link whatsoever between the 'goodness' or 'realness' of a fan and how they react after a defeat. People point out that the Germans, for example, wouldn't have reacted in the same way, and that's probably true, but any idea that this makes them better fans, or that they care more about the team than the singing fans, doesn't make any sense to me.

I have no issue whatsoever with people singing after games - they can do what they like, singing or booing, it make no difference to me in terms of them being a 'real fan.'

I just wonder whether a lot of people around the world watching the Irish fans behave so well will imagine that LOI games must be like a microcosm of that game - thousands of loyal fans proud even in defeat. I wonder would they still be using such glowing terms about those fans if they knew that a significant percentage of them have next to no interest in the senior league in their own country.

[SkStu]

After having a few days to reflect, I'll try and put down my thoughts again on the singing...it might be a bit "stream of consciousness"...

Singing after that tanking and after the poor tactics and standard of play we had seen over 2 games doesn't sit right.
I am sure it was well intended however it was totally misplaced.
Italy would have been a better occasion to sing for the team. We kind of turned up at times.
When now do we get to voice our dissatisfaction at the anti-football/tripe we have been served up by Trap?
Facebook in the immediate aftermath is what really p*ssed me off. The reflective glory that so many people were basking in because the "fans were brilliant" just misses the point in so many ways.
It's reflective of our mentality on a broader scale and that's where the crux of the problem lies.
The video of a very drunk JD with the smattering of fanboys shushing the one guy trying to make a point about the state of Irish football is a disgrace and is also reflective of the mentality of our fans/nationality.
"were here for the beer and the singsong". Sad.

[eekers]

There was a chant last night of "we'll sing when we want, we sing when we want". Fans revelling in singing about themselves.

[Stuttgart88]

I think the point of that song was to defy Roy Keane, having probably misunderstood what he said. Really eekers, if you're determined to find fault you can find it anywhere I suppose.

I could barely hear anything in that JD clip on youtube. Was there definitely someone trying to take issue with the state of irsih football with him, or was it just a big silly mush in with the crows shushing so they could hear what JD had to say?

I don't visit Facebook but there's always a big "werent the fans great" thing in Ireland after these events. The big question was whether there were 30,000 so-called barstoolers out for a jolly with only 5,000 proper fans (whatever they may be) truly representative of Irish dootball support or was it more the other way around? I'm not sure Facebook, Joe Duffy, The Star or Marion Finucane can answer that one.

I thought the support was great and just showed how long the last 10 years have been for us. I think the 10 years is a major part of the context this debate has to be framed within.

[geysir]

It's a sign when you're getting more passionate Stutts, your spelling tends to go awry.

[Stuttgart88]

Yes, I didn't see any crows anywhere. Just a crowd.

[SkStu]

I think the point of that song was to defy Roy Keane, having probably misunderstood what he said. Really eekers, if you're determined to find fault you can find it anywhere I suppose.

I could barely hear anything in that JD clip on youtube. Was there definitely someone trying to take issue with the state of irsih football with him, or was it just a big silly mush in with the crows shushing so they could hear what JD had to say?

I don't visit Facebook but there's always a big "werent the fans great" thing in Ireland after these events. The big question was whether there were 30,000 so-called barstoolers out for a jolly with only 5,000 proper fans (whatever they may be) truly representative of Irish dootball support or was it more the other way around? I'm not sure Facebook, Joe Duffy, The Star or Marion Finucane can answer that one..

Wrt the JD video, the guy was trying to make a point to him about Irish footie. He's a Bohs fan.

I have my own theories about the nature of irish sports fans of all persuasions but I'm not going to get into it now...

[tetsujin1979]

There was a chant last night of "we'll sing when we want, we sing when we want". Fans revelling in singing about themselves.
might want to listen to the full chant for the full reason why we sang when we wanted to.

For what it's worth, my opinion on the singing is as follows (sorry if I'm repeating what anyone else has said I'm just back from Poland and I've not read through the thread)
Russia were fined for the behaviour of their fans in Warsaw and have a six point penalty hanging over their heads
Croatia have been fined twice for the behaviour of their fans in three games
England have an investigation into a pitch invasion

We moved the equivalent population of Ennis to another country, where the fans caused no trouble, impressed the locals so much that they never wanted us to leave and have the mayor of Gdansk on record as saying he will nominate us for a UEFA Fair Play award, but for whatever reason we can't accept the praise.

Seriously, what is wrong with us?

[BonnieShels]

might want to listen to the full chant for the full reason why we sang when we wanted to.

For what it's worth, my opinion on the singing is as follows (sorry if I'm repeating what anyone else has said I'm just back from Poland and I've not read through the thread)
Russia were fined for the behaviour of their fans in Warsaw and have a six point penalty hanging over their heads
Croatia have been fined twice for the behaviour of their fans in three games
England have an investigation into a pitch invasion

We moved the equivalent population of Ennis to another country, where the fans caused no trouble, impressed the locals so much that they never wanted us to leave and have the mayor of Gdansk on record as saying he will nominate us for a UEFA Fair Play award, but for whatever reason we can't accept the praise.

Seriously, what is wrong with us?


We are a bunch of scoop monkeys that's what.

Completely with ya Tets.

[tricky_colour]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PyS1kET_6nI

[Real ale Madrid]

might want to listen to the full chant for the full reason why we sang when we wanted to.

For what it's worth, my opinion on the singing is as follows (sorry if I'm repeating what anyone else has said I'm just back from Poland and I've not read through the thread)
Russia were fined for the behaviour of their fans in Warsaw and have a six point penalty hanging over their heads
Croatia have been fined twice for the behaviour of their fans in three games
England have an investigation into a pitch invasion

We moved the equivalent population of Ennis to another country, where the fans caused no trouble, impressed the locals so much that they never wanted us to leave and have the mayor of Gdansk on record as saying he will nominate us for a UEFA Fair Play award, but for whatever reason we can't accept the praise.

Seriously, what is wrong with us?

As people have previously pointed out, there has to be a disconnect with us singing after a defeat and the behaviour of other supporters- this is out of context to the discussion.

Irish fans have behaved and made friends on an away trip the exact same as they always do - they spend loads of money, they don't cause hassle, the fun us always good natured etc. etc. No one is denying that we are not the No.1 fans in the world I think - and we don't need to sing at the end of crushing defeat to prove it.

I wonder how the reaction would be different if we lose 4-0 at home to Germany in the WC qualifiers - will we all stick around after the game for 10 mins and sing the fields of Athenry ? The place would be half empty at the 75 min mark, there will be a nice round chorus of boo's in the stadium at the full time whistle and Denis O'Brien will have to pay Trap his severance the morning after.

Why was it so different after this tournament? What was the point of 4 years of hard work if when we got to the big stage we get destroyed? The players themselves weren't accepting of that.

But the fans, by singing for so long and so loud, send out a message of acceptance, thats how I read it anyway. - Win, lose we are on the booze, and that does our reputation a disservice imo.

[geysir]

a message of acceptance, thats how I read it anyway. - Win, lose we are on the booze, and that does our reputation a disservice imo.
Your problem is that you interpreted it as a message of acceptance. I didn't, neither did the fans from Foot.ie who were there, and most probably the fans who regularly go the away games, didn't.

I don't see any or much difference between our fans and the Swedish/Danish, fans from one of the smaller countries who turn up in numbers to watch their team play the big boys, bring colour and go home withhout creating a rumpus.

[Real ale Madrid]

Your problem is that you interpreted it as a message of acceptance. I didn't, neither did the fans from Foot.ie who were there, and most probably the fans who regularly go the away games, didn't.


Listen, there is no need to get narky - its my OPINION - not my problem. If my OPINION is not shared by others then I have absolutely no issue with that.

Personally I interpret singing with happiness, happiness after a 4-0 defeat signals to everyone else not there that; we are losing but we are still happy to be here. I do not understand why we would spend so much blood, sweat and tears qualifying if when we arrived we were merely happy to be there. To me, that was the message that came accross, and I don't, like others, understand that mentality. (to use a Trap word) .

[Stuttgart88]

I dunno. At 4-0 down in a qualifier people would have left and then they'd have got a rollicking for not sticking around!

RAM, my interpretation was that it was just a grim acceptance of circumstance (not the performance) and that after 10 years of isolation if the team was going out with a whimper, we certainly weren't going to. Part of the spectacle of big time football is the crowd (e.g., I love watching St. Pauli, Sporting Gijon, Bilbao...the fan culture is great). If the Irish team couldn't contribute to the spectacle, the crowd would. Trust me, the mood was actually very despondent among everyone, but not as miserable as say, Israel away, because there was nothing sudden about this car crash.

[geysir]

Listen, there is no need to get narky - its my OPINION - not my problem. If my OPINION is not shared by others then I have absolutely no issue with that.

Personally I interpret singing with happiness, happiness after a 4-0 defeat signals to everyone else not there that; we are losing but we are still happy to be here. I do not understand why we would spend so much blood, sweat and tears qualifying if when we arrived we were merely happy to be there. To me, that was the message that came accross, and I don't, like others, understand that mentality. (to use a Trap word) .

Why do you think I'm narky? you expressed your opinion about how others felt and I'm telling you that's not what they said they felt.

[tetsujin1979]

For anyone wondering why we didn't leave during the game, it's quite simple really - there wasn't anywhere to go!
If it was in Dublin, then it's easy enough to leave to the nearest pub, or the city centre or to head on home. In Gdansk, the stadium is a outside the city, and a little isolated. We took a taxi there, but the trams weren't running when we left the stadium after the game, there was no buses, or taxis, and the only pub was across the road in an unfinished hotel (or business centre, not really sure what it was) selling beer!

Good point that if we left at 4-0 down to Germany, people would complain about that too Stutts.

[Real ale Madrid]

Why do you think I'm narky?

Usually when you start a sentence with "your problem is...." it usually points to something irritating. Sorry if not meant but I can only read what's in front of me :)


you expressed your opinion about how others felt and I'm telling you that's not what they said they felt.

I expressed my opinion on the type of message that, singing after a 4-0 defeat, sends to the rest of the world.

[Real ale Madrid]

I dunno. At 4-0 down in a qualifier people would have left and then they'd have got a rollicking for not sticking around!

RAM, my interpretation was that it was just a grim acceptance of circumstance (not the performance) and that after 10 years of isolation if the team was going out with a whimper, we certainly weren't going to. Part of the spectacle of big time football is the crowd (e.g., I love watching St. Pauli, Sporting Gijon, Bilbao...the fan culture is great). If the Irish team couldn't contribute to the spectacle, the crowd would. Trust me, the mood was actually very despondent among everyone, but not as miserable as say, Israel away, because there was nothing sudden about this car crash.

Fair enough I suppose, I probably would have been singing myself If I managed to get there. :) At the end of the day I just found the "jaysus arn't we great " stuff hard to swallow after such a crushing defeat.

[geysir]

A similar event happened after the play off defeat to Holland at Anfield when hopelessly outplayed by a superior team, I doubt that the singing then had to do with acceptance of a redundant style of play by a team past its best. Yet some fuss was made afterwards about the fan's behaviour, 'aren't we great' and all that.

[bennocelt]

That was a bit different Geysir, that was a vocal sendoff to Jack and an appreciation of what he did for Irish football

[geysir]

Maybe so, I wrote 'similar' not the same. Jack had not retired by then nor did he want to, nor had he indicated he would. And the rest of the watching world were not exactly au fait with what the Irish fans were thinking when they sang the FOA, the Dutch fans accepted it for what it was, a massive support for the team even in the event of being hopelessly outplayed and not an acceptance of the standard of failure.

[brine3]

Just seen that TV3 went to Dublin airport to interview returning fans and asked them, "So, what do you think about Roy Keane criticising the supporters?"

Jesus, he didn't criticise the fans like that. Why is the Irish media turning into the British tabloid press?

And now Dunphy is lining up and saying it is disgraceful what Keane said.


And what did he say?
"Listen, let's not just go along for the sing-song"

How is that a disgrace?

[bennocelt]

Sorry geysir you are very wrong there. There was no doubt that was the final curtaincall on jacks time with the Irish team, the fans at the game knew it and the viewers knew at home. The papers had the pull outs of his time with Ireland in the papers the next day as well. It wasnt mentioned beforehand, of course, as we could have qualified, but was very much expected. It was a great ending. VERY different

[geysir]

Just seen that TV3 went to Dublin airport to interview returning fans and asked them, "So, what do you think about Roy Keane criticising the supporters?"

Jesus, he didn't criticise the fans like that. Why is the Irish media turning into the British tabloid press?

And now Dunphy is lining up and saying it is disgraceful what Keane said.


And what did he say?
"Listen, let's not just go along for the sing-song"

How is that a disgrace?
That's the peculiarity of the Dunphy Keane dynamics.

Roy's comment was made in the context of the end of the Spanish game, the insinuation was that the fans were content with the fare offered and their singing of the FOA was an example of how they accepted low standards and applauded failure.

[geysir]

Sorry geysir you are very wrong there. There was no doubt that was the final curtaincall on jacks time with the Irish team, the fans at the game knew it and the viewers knew at home. The papers had the pull outs of his time with Ireland in the papers the next day as well. It wasnt mentioned beforehand, of course, as we could have qualified, but was very much expected. It was a great ending. VERY different

So everybody knew in 1996 that we were not celebrating a humiliating defeat and now the fans do a similar thing, sing the FOA at the end of a humiliating defeat and suddenly they are supposed to be celebrating failure and low standards.

[brine3]

Yes, the singing after the playoff in 1995 was deffo a thank you to Jack.

It was the worst kept secret in football at that time that it was his last campaign.

[bennocelt]

So everybody knew in 1996 that we were not celebrating a humiliating defeat and now the fans do a similar thing, sing the FOA at the end of a humiliating defeat and suddenly they are supposed to be celebrating failure and low standards.

eh? As mentioned a send off for big Jack, a very moving one as well.

[OwlsFan]

Personally I interpret singing with happiness, happiness after a 4-0 defeat signals to everyone else not there that; we are losing but we are still happy to be here. I do not understand why we would spend so much blood, sweat and tears qualifying if when we arrived we were merely happy to be there. To me, that was the message that came accross, and I don't, like others, understand that mentality. (to use a Trap word) .

So when your team is say 0-1 down I assume you are not happy and do not sing to support your side because you are unhappy.

The use of the word "sing" is misleading. I prefer to call it support and the way supporters express their support for a team is by singing. It was also not "we all dream of a team of Gary Breens" or other jocular songs like that. It was the Fields of Athenry. An emotive, expressive song about Irishness and our pride in being Irish no matter WHAT the circumstances. We supported our team despite being stuffed by the world champions. That's what supporters are supposed to do despite being unhappy. Of course the fans were happy to be there but not with the result. However, in football, your team can be stuffed but that doesn't mean you turn on them. Huge disappointment with the result but you still support your team. Sing = support but does not = happy. I have no doubt that some fans did not sing and left the stadium. We all have different ways of dealing with defeat.

Yes, the "best fans in the world" is irritating but that has nothing to do with the issue.

As mentioned elsewhere (I think), I have seen German and Turkish supporters singing in the Champions League despite the fact that their clubs are getting a hammering. It is not unique to the Irish.

As Vincent Hogan said it was not celebrating defeat but dealing with the immedicacy of defeat.

[DannyInvincible]

Personally I interpret singing with happiness, happiness after a 4-0 defeat signals to everyone else not there that; we are losing but we are still happy to be here. I do not understand why we would spend so much blood, sweat and tears qualifying if when we arrived we were merely happy to be there. To me, that was the message that came accross, and I don't, like others, understand that mentality. (to use a Trap word) .

Surely song can be utilised to express all sorts of emotions, ranging from anguish to sorrow to unbridled joy. Not all songs have happy themes, and especially not 'The Fields of Athenry'. I wouldn't view the end-of-game singing in such oversimplified terms as the fans accepting our trouncing in celebratory fashion just because we made it there. You can be dismayed by a performance but still sing your heart out for your team. The two aren't necessarily contradictory. I would never resort to booing my team after a poor performance, unless it was abundantly clear the players didn't give the slightest toss.

[paul_oshea]

Can people not put this down to, as a repressed people for centuries, by singing when all is lost and there appears to be no hope, it shows to the world that no matter what, when we are down we are not out, that through adversity we will still battle on, that no matter what is thrown at us, or how often we are knocked down, that we get back up. Just like we have with this recession. Unlike the greeks.

Or that when we are on holidays and up for the craic we will sing away when loaded.

[Bungle]

I'm just at wroclaw airport now.had an unreal 2 weeks where the only downside was the results, in fact more the appalling quality of our football. However, reading some of the comments on this page has. annoyed me something else. Yes many of our fans are event junkies but what right to fans like me who go to every home game have to judge them. Many of those fans sung their hearts out for the team and created a carnival type atmosphere. Good luck to them

To be honest, I can in part agree with keane. As a nation, we often thrive at being glorious losers. However, I'd rather our fans dress up as leprechauns and hit riot police over the head with an inflatavle hammer, rather than be lads who live for clubs like dynamo zagreb or lech poznan and try to kick off. It says a lot more for us as fans that the zagreb ultras and the lech ulttas left us sing like loons, rather than kick off with us.

[paul_oshea]

Yep bungle, its hte fools on here who dont attend games that are the first to complain. Id ignore the comments on here to be honest, as they are so out of touch its unreal.

[brine3]

I don't attend matches at Lansdowne Road because I don't live in Ireland.

Now I am reading that to say maybe there are certain times the singing is not merited is to say we should become Dynamo Zagreb rioters. That's obviously not what I am saying.

I am very proud of our support almost 99.9% of the time, but in my opinion losing 4-0 isn't the time to sing. Good luck to the others if they want to sing, each person to themselves. And I was honestly impressed by it. I just think the motivation was to make our support look good on the European stage. And it worked. All those foreign fans are commenting about how great we are on YouTube. But we all know the reaction to a 4-0 loss would be much different if it was a qualifier, and if the rest of Europe wasn't watching. So I don't find the singing to have been genuine in this case. But that's just my opinion.

[SkStu]

Yep bungle, its hte fools on here who dont attend games that are the first to complain. Id ignore the comments on here to be honest, as they are so out of touch its unreal.

Superfan syndrome.

[SkStu]

All those foreign fans are commenting about how great we are on YouTube..

I know you're just pointing out the comments on YT but that's the justification I hear from folk for the singing - who f**king cares what other fans think of us - it means NOTHING... well keep singing while they keep winning.

Ooooh what will the neighbors say... It's so annoyingly Irish.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm.
So if you live outside Ireland it disqualifies you from attending home games?

No-one would expect them to turn up to every game, especially the mainly mind-numbing friendlies but some effort is possible, surely...

[ArdeeBhoy]

As for the singing, surely it's down to the individual.

Personally, far more p*ssed-off most people don't know verses 1-3 of FOA, FFS.

[brine3]

Hmm.
So if you live outside Ireland it disqualifies you from attending home games?

No-one would expect them to turn up to every game, especially the mainly mind-numbing friendlies but some effort is possible, surely...

I didn't say it disqualifies me. But it is easy talk for somebody in Ireland to preach to people on the continent about attending home matches.

I don't have limitless amounts of money and I when I visit Ireland it is not to visit Dublin. I don't have family in Dublin.

The matches in Stockholm and Cologne are next on my agenda. Maybe Vienna as well. They are more accessible for me.

But I want to see football at the new Lansdowne Road someday so hopefully it will come to pass.

[osarusan]

Yep bungle, its hte fools on here who dont attend games that are the first to complain. Id ignore the comments on here to be honest, as they are so out of touch its unreal.

do you think people have to be regular supporters at games to be able to be 'in touch' with what's going on?

[brine3]

As for the singing, surely it's down to the individual.

Personally, far more p*ssed-off most people don't know verses 1-3 of FOA, FFS.

Hehe, if you started with "By lonely prison walls" nobody would be able to keep up.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I didn't say it disqualifies me. But it is easy talk for somebody in Ireland to preach to people on the continent about attending home matches.

I don't have limitless amounts of money and I when I visit Ireland it is not to visit Dublin. I don't have family in Dublin.

The matches in Stockholm and Cologne are next on my agenda. Maybe Vienna as well. They are more accessible for me.

But I want to see football at the new Lansdowne Road someday so hopefully it will come to pass.

Except you don't have to have family, even in Ireland, to go to home games.
Not suggesting anyone spends money they don't have, but they could make the effort, say at least once a decade...


Hehe, if you started with "By lonely prison walls" nobody would be able to keep up.

My singing's bad but not that bad...
;)
Plus people could make the effort to learn the words if they really wanted to.

[Predator]

do you think people have to be regular supporters at games to be able to be 'in touch' with what's going on?
Of course. Sure in order to be a jockey, you have to have been a horse first.

[Predator]

Unlike the greeks.The Greeks are still in the competition. :)

[ArdeeBhoy]

Don't you mean to have been 'on' the horse, surely?