The Household Charge

[Mr A]

Interesting piece here: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0416/1224314762099.html

Makes a fair bit of sense to me as it echoes what I've heard from people that have not paid yet (a very small sample mind you).

[bennocelt]

Good article
"To mistake technical weaknesses for mass revolt would also be an example of policy failure" - don't agree with this last statement though tbh, there is a lot of real anger out there at the moment and to not recognise that would be a mistake as well

[bennocelt]

Jesus no let up..........................
http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0417/further-delay-in-deptic-tanks-registration-system.html (http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0417/further-delay-in-deptic-tanks-registration-system.html)

[Eminence Grise]

If it was anybody but Inda, Big Phil would long ago have been thrown overboard to keep the ship afloat.

[culloty82]

If the government and county councils repaired the obsolete water pipes, it would almost eliminate the current leakage rate of 50%, so the argument that the metering is solely for conservation literally doesn't wash.

[Eminence Grise]

Too true - and that's not counting the jobs boost it would bring. But no, what am I saying? Sending my councillors on expensive junkets is far more important and a much better use of money for my area. :rolleyes2:

[bennocelt]

If the government and county councils repaired the obsolete water pipes, it would almost eliminate the current leakage rate of 50%, so the argument that the metering is solely for conservation literally doesn't wash.

Definitely
On the very morning of the hose pipe over here, one busy street in Uxbridge (where I live) was flowing like a river with a burst pipe which took them well over 24 hours to fix. Can imagine Ireland would be worse............

[mypost]

Too true - and that's not counting the jobs boost it would bring. But no, what am I saying? Sending my councillors on expensive junkets is far more important and a much better use of money for my area. :rolleyes2:

When the jobs issue was put to Varadkar regarding a Metro Construction, he answered that it was "a €million per job". Job creation wasn't his priority anyway.

[Macy]

If the government and county councils repaired the obsolete water pipes, it would almost eliminate the current leakage rate of 50%, so the argument that the metering is solely for conservation literally doesn't wash.
It'd eliminate leakage, it wouldn't eliminate wasteful usage. As ever, thanks to FF the building regs were so pathetic on water usage during the building bubble that we're left with the stick of water charges. There should've been rain water harvesting, grey water systems etc in new builds as part of building regulations during the boom. It's ridiculous for people who water their gardens not to have one or more water butts to collect rain water rather than a tap and hose/ sprinkler, pure laziness if they don't already.

I'm a bit ambivalent on water charges to be honest - we pay to maintain and treat water from a private well (and maintain and treat waste leaving the house). A lot in rural areas, who don't have private wells, are on group schemes so already have water meters and charges. Like bin charges, it's the urban areas that are paying catch up on this in a way. However, they'd want to improve the quality of a lot of public supplies if they want to charge.

[legendz]

In some parts of the country people will have their own water systems in place, even for drinking water. What's the story there? They're hardly going to cut of there supplies or are they?

[Macy]

If you're on a private well, you won't be metered and aren't effected by the metering they're talking about. However, if something breaks and you can't/ won't pay for the repair you are effectively cut off as things stand!

All the group schemes I know of are metered, and you pay for the water you use. They're often co-ops. If you refused to pay they would ultimately cut you off, but I'd say it would be a last resort.

[dahamsta]

I'm wondering if the mixed messages coming from the coalition are purposeful to confuse the electorate, or signs of a worsening schism between Lab and FG?

[Mr A]

I honestly think they're a bit of a mess on these issues, not just between but within parties. Hogan in particular is making an absolute and utter balls of things.

[dahamsta]

Hogan's skill was* as an advisor, he should never have been allowed to run for office; giving him a ministerial position is probably one of Kenny's dumbest decisions of all time. The man is clueless at front-of-house politics.

* Used advisedly, he'll never get it back now. FG might as well sell him off for glue while they can still get something for him.

[LmkSnr]

Hogan's skill was* as an advisor, he should never have been allowed to run for office; giving him a ministerial position is probably one of Kenny's dumbest decisions of all time. The man is clueless at front-of-house politics.

* Used advisedly, he'll never get it back now. FG might as well sell him off for glue while they can still get something for him.

Main reason people won;t pay is simple.Working people pay PAYE ; USC ; PRSI ; PENSION ; VHI out of that the goverment get more than a third of peoples wages.Then working people pay mortgage; car loans ; car tax which leaves very little left for family. I OWE I OWE ITS OFF TO WORK I GO.IF YOU DON,T HAVE IT YOU CAN,T PAY IT.On the water meters if you dont sign for it being installed you did,nt order it .SIGN NOTHING

[Macy]

On the water meters if you dont sign for it being installed you did,nt order it .SIGN NOTHING
The proposal is to install the meters outside of properties, where the property supply meets the mains. They won't be going on private property to install them.

[horton]

Latest figures on the household charge show that Co Donegal is the biggest rebel county with 73% of homeowners not having registered for the controversial household charge.Government efforts to track down homeowners refusing to pay the household levy moved a step further this week with new rules agreed on the sharing of personal data details with collectors.

The Local Government Management Agency (LGMA) — the body collecting the charge for the department — will now prepare to cross-check details of those who paid and did not pay with the Revenue Commissioners, the Department of Social Protection, and electricity suppliers as well as the Private Residential Tenancies Board.

Latest figures show that in Co Donegal, just 17,408 registered to pay the charge out of an estimated 65,331 estimated as liable to pay.

It also shows that as of Tuesday, 63% of householders in Galway had not paid the charge, while in Co Cork this figure stood at 61%.

In Cork City, 58% have not paid up. In Roscommon, the non-compliance figure was particularly high at 66%.

The most obedient local authorities appear to be in the Dublin area, with 66% of homeowners in Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown paying up and a further 52% in Dublin City.

In Fingal, 50% of householders have paid the charge. In Co Kerry, 61% of people have decided not to fork out the required €100 while in Limerick county the figure is roughly similar.

In Limerick City, 58% of people haven’t paid up.

In total across the country, 685,442 have paid the charge out of the estimated 1.6m liable.

Environment Minister Phil Hogan has warned that local authorities will lose out on funds if there is a shortfall in the collection.

Anyone who doesn’t pay the €100 charge before the end of September will have to fork out an additional €10.

Those who don’t pay until between October and the end of March next year will have to pay an extra €20 charge.

Householders who don’t pay until after Apr 1 will have to pay €130.

Read more: http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/73-in-donegal-fail-to-pay-100-levy-192111.html#ixzz1tT1zuVFS

That's a shocking uptake.

[horton]

County by county: payment of the household charge

Carlow: 6,485 of 18,257 (35.5%)
Cavan: 8,808 of 25,611 (34.4%)
Clare: 17,819 of 45,786 (38.9%)
Cork City: 17,565 of 41,649 (42.2%)
Cork County: 56,621 of 143,887 (39.4%)
Donegal: 17,408 of 65,331 (26.6%)
Dublin City: 99,179 of 190,685 (52.0%)
Dún Laoghaire-Rathdown: 49,572 of 74,390 (66.6%)
Fingal: 45,046 of 90,286 (49.9%)
Galway City: 13,313 of 27,086 (49.2%)
Galway County: 23,739 of 62,851 (37.8%)
Kerry: 22,780 of 58,792 (38.7%)
Kildare: 30,786 of 68,215 (45.1%)
Kilkenny: 12,686 of 32,067 (39.6%)
Laois: 9,124 of 26,185 (34.8%)
Leitrim: 4,913 of 13,069 (37.6%)
Limerick City: 8,487 of 20,380 (41.6%)
Limerick County: 18,426 of 46,473 (39.6%)
Longford: 4,637 of 12,928 (35.9%)
Louth: 14,222 of 41,176 (34.5%)
Mayo: 19,997 of 51,363 (38.9%)
Meath: 24,090 of 60,652 (39.7%)
Monaghan: 5,660 of 20,176 (28.1%)
North Tipperary: 9,572 of 24,839 (38.5%)
Offaly: 8,124 of 25,224 (32.2%)
Roscommon: 8,280 of 23,888 (34.7%)
Sligo: 10,423 of 25,281 (41.2%)
South Dublin: 38,370 of 81,822 (46.9%)
South Tipperary: 11,318 of 30,368 (37.3%)
Waterford City: 6,166 of 15,753 (39.1%)
Waterford County: 9,181 of 24,777 (37.1%)
Westmeath: 10,341 of 29,872 (34.6%)
Wexford: 20,873 of 56,030 (37.3%)
Wicklow: 21,431 of 45,665 (46.9%)



http://www.thejournal.ie/ulster-counties-lead-table-of-household-charge-boycotts-434566-Apr2012/

A breakdown of how many households have paid in each county.

[dahamsta]

I'm presuming I'll have to pay at some point because Gov.ie aren't going to return everyone else's money, but I think the longer I go without paying, the more embarassing it looks for them. So my payment remains outstanding.

EDIT: Also, I'd like to see this be the death of "Big" Phil's political career. The man is a hack.

[Macy]

A breakdown of how many households have paid in each county.
Does that include waivers, or has the total number of houses been adjusted to allow for waivers? It'd be a bit misleading otherwise.

[horton]

According to the link I got it from it excludes those who have registered for a waiver. In saying that though, I've no idea how good the investigative journalism is so it could be fudged stats. Coming from Derry, having the word Journal in a newspapers name doesn't instill a lot of confidence!

[John83]

According to the link I got it from it excludes those who have registered for a waiver. In saying that though, I've no idea how good the investigative journalism is so it could be fudged stats. Coming from Derry, having the word Journal in a newspapers name doesn't instill a lot of confidence!
Cough (http://europe.wsj.com/home-page). Granted, it's not the biggest paper around, but then I've never subscribed to the notion that a paper needs to have the world "Shimbun" in the title to be reputable.

[bennocelt]

Wow words fail me,lol

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0502/chewing-gum-tax-not-ruled-out.html

[Macy]

Threat of tax gets companies to deal with issues. happened with atm slips and is the reason gum companies started sponsoring campaigns in the mid 2000's.

[Charlie Darwin]

There is nothing wrong with taxing something that costs taxpayers millions of euro a year to clean up.

[bennocelt]

Again! Think of the timing................:rolleyes:

[Macy]

At the launch of a gum company sponsored campaign to not be a scumbag with chewed gum, thus giving them a dig to continue said sponsorship? seems alright timing to me.

[bennocelt]

At the launch of a gum company sponsored campaign to not be a scumbag with chewed gum, thus giving them a dig to continue said sponsorship? seems alright timing to me.

Seriously -why are you always defending the government - I mean for someone who always says he didnt vote for them!
If you can't even see the humour of this story - Got a great laugh in my office today!
What next will they tax?

[Macy]

I just don't believe in attacking them for everything regardless. i think coincidentally it's stuff that drives you mad is just the stuff that doesn't bother me. i seriously couldn't give a flying one if they put 10 cent on a pack of chewing gum, even if it was a cover rather because of litter.

a tax on chewing gum isn't even a new kite, it's been doing the rounds for years. i think dick roche was the first to float it here.

[Eminence Grise]

Yes - it was Roche who took the idea (from somewhere else, I think) of a levy on a packet of chewing gum, proceeds to be ringfenced for gum-busting machines and cleaning, and allowed himself to be bought off for a paltry few million spread over a number of years by the chewing-gum lobby, frightened that a few coppers on a pack would bring ruination to them. Instead of a decent revenue stream to keep streets clean and promote proper disposal, iirc we got posters and a DVD for primary schools preaching that gum on the streets is just yukky, m'kay kids?

One look under the desks and chairs in some of the places I've taught in and you'd ban the bloody stuff, never mind put a tiny levy on what is, after all, a discretionary purchase!

[Real ale Madrid]

Seriously -why are you always defending the government - I mean for someone who always says he didnt vote for them!
If you can't even see the humour of this story - Got a great laugh in my office today!
What next will they tax?

I'm scratching my head here - what is it exactly that you find so amusing ?

A flat €100 on property without taking into account individual circumstances, THATS possibly so dumb that it's funny.

Few cents on a packet of gum to help clean up after the stuff, just seems like common sense to me - maybe its funny because its so unusual? (Government common sense that is)

[bennocelt]

I'm scratching my head here - what is it exactly that you find so amusing ?

A flat €100 on property without taking into account individual circumstances, THATS possibly so dumb that it's funny.

Few cents on a packet of gum to help clean up after the stuff, just seems like common sense to me - maybe its funny because its so unusual? (Government common sense that is)

Really, wow, never guessed that! I'm waiting for a tax on nappys, any day soon!

[Macy]

Really, wow, never guessed that! I'm waiting for a tax on nappys, any day soon!
I hope so - hate it when they stick to your shoe walking down the street, and it's really gross when they're stuck to the bottom of the train seat...

[Charlie Darwin]

I think the point is that taxpayers are going to pay either way - either through hiring people to scrape up chewing gum or through dirtier streets - so it's only fair that the people who buy chewing gum pay for its clean-up. Same reason that only motorists pay road tax, people who burn fossil fuels pay carbon tax, etc.

[horton]

I think the point is that taxpayers are going to pay either way - either through hiring people to scrape up chewing gum or through dirtier streets - so it's only fair that the people who buy chewing gum pay for its clean-up. Same reason that only motorists pay road tax, people who burn fossil fuels pay carbon tax, etc.
Off topic but it's motor tax not road tax:p Calling it road tax would imply the money paid is for repairing pot holes and the general upkeep of the roads, when infact the money isn't ringfenced, your just paying for an expensive bit of paper on the windscreen!

[dahamsta]

I've binned the last lot of posts, since they were completely off topic, transparently bad debate, and just a sad bitchfest between two posters when you get right down to it. Add each other to your ignore lists or just STFU please.

[Source]

I hear the government is sending out reminder letters to people who haven't paid, i wonder if it will make any difference. Probably get another 10 - 20 per cent to pay.