2012 First Division structure?

[nigel-harps1954]

Glass half-full of Daisy's finest.

We'll leave Daisy out of this. She's done nout wrong.

[sullanefc]

It would be hard to argue that the current Napoli, Fiorentina, Aldershot etc clubs aren't the direct descendants of the clubs that went bust, the difference with Cork being that before now, a new club with a completely different name (FORAS FC was just a legal requirement) replaced the preceding team. Of course, what distinguishes the foreign clubs is they had to restart at a lower level of the pyramid, and while in Limerick's case the lowest rung was the First Division, FORAS and Derry could have been sent to the A Championship, but the risk to the clubs futures probably overruled that.

I don't think that is accurate. The A-Championship was technically not the lowest rung of the LOI ladder. It was basically a reserve league for where teams outside the LOI could compete in while they prepared themselves for the LOI first division. If Tralee, Carlow or anyone else could have attained a first division license during the years of the A championship, then they could have gone straight in. Cork City Foras and Derry City were successful in their applications for first division licenses and were hence admitted to that league.

[legendz]

The A Championship was the third tier. The route to the first division was to be the best first team, finishing in the top 3 of either group and qualifying for a promotion/relegation play-off against the team finishing last in the first division. Salthill beat Cobh in such a play-off. Tralee, Carlow and any other club could've obtained a first division licence but would still have had to qualify on the field of play, unless of course a position had become available.

[galwayhoop]

Both wrong but Legendz closer.
2008 Mervue bet Kildare in a playoff but Cobh took Kildares place in the A Championship.
2009 Salthill were to play Kildare but Kildare folded and Salthill went up.
2010 Cobh lost out in Playoff to Salthill so Cobh remained in A Championship
2011 No playoff as all teams invited to apply for 1st division but none accepted

[Lim till i die]

I think I could probably make some arguments about that but yes, arguably, I guess.

Argue away, it's what the internet is for. :)

Limericks probable starting eleven:

Goalkeeper:

Either Ryan - Hands down the best keeper in the division, can't see anyone having too many qualms.

Back Four:

Shaun Kelly
Paddy Purcell
Shane Guthrie
Andrew Bhandharkar

The first three there would walk on to any other team in the Division. Bhandarkar came on in leaps and bounds last year, to the point where he was starting to keep Frosty out of the starting eleven at one stage.

Centre Mid:

Joe Gamble
Stephen Bradley

Nuff said.

Attacking Players:

Gary Sheehan
Paudie Quinn
Rory Gaffney

Sheehan and Gaffney will be recognisable as quality to any First Division officianados. Quinn burst onto the scene last year, scored twelve goals I think it was, including two in Tolka, two in Turners Cross and two in Monaghan.

Striker:

Denis Behan

Nuff said.

Bench looks pretty tasty aswell, Shane Tracy, Dave O'Leary and Corie Tracy would walk into most other teams in the division. Stephen McGann (particularly Stephen McGann), Barry Sheedy, Sean Brosnan and Garbhan Coughlan are fellas to be watched this year aswell.


Possibly poorer than last year? I wouldn't agree at all. The only concern is a keeper but I dont see us missing the likes of Wilson (barely played) and Kenny Browne (awful last season). Burns didn't have a great season but we need another keeper to go with Hughes. Murray was good but missed most of the end of the season and we had enough cover, with another defender to join soon. Dempsey and Frost coming in are good signings, especially Dempsey, who was simply brilliant last season in the Premier Division.

I dunno like.

Frosty is a pretty decent signing, Dempsey is a good signing.

But if you take Kevin Murray, Kenny Browne and Kevin Burns out of a probable starting eleven and look to replace them with Peter White, David Breen and some youngfella, it's a pretty big step back.


I don't think you'll dominate as much as your fans seem to be expecting

As I said above, for my own part, I expect us to have a long slog, don't expect us to **** it at all (although I'll continue to claim otherwise at times on here for the purposes of winding people up right up until the big kick off)

At the moment the squad is high on quality, but low on bodies. If we get an insane run of bad luck like we did at the start of last season we could struggle.

[gormacha]

But if you take Kevin Murray, Kenny Browne and Kevin Burns out of a probable starting eleven and look to replace them with Peter White, David Breen and some youngfella, it's a pretty big step back.


On the face of it, that's a very strong point, but...

Browne, although capable of superb performances, was very ordinary for much of last season, and woeful for parts of it. His display against Pats in the cup was awful to the point of comedy. Ironic then that they should have signed him...

Murray was well below his usual standards as well. He seemed to be struggling for motivation, and missed most of the last third of the season with injury. There was no noticeable decline in team performance after he left, albeit that isn't saying much.

I do think Burns is a loss, although he is only a young fella himself, being the same age as Hughes who's replaced him.

Last season, we worried about midfield (which we right to do, as we were lightweight), but nobody worried about our defence which looked the best in the division by some margin. It wasn't though.

[legendz]

Getting back on topic regards "2012 First Division structure?" and going forward, I think the FAI should be open to expanding the first division to 12, just like the premier. If they went ahead with 10 this year, there should be an indefinite race for any clubs looking to take the final two places. I mean like, if the FAI were to come out and say the LoI will be capped at 24 clubs, two in each division, it'd force a few aspiring clubs to get their act together to get the available places.

[gormacha]

I think the FAI should be open to expanding the first division to 12

Are there 24 clubs that are up to LoI? as much as I disagree with how the FAI runs the league, one thing I think they may be right about (or at least the impression they give) is that there aren't 24 clubs of requisite senior standard. Even with eight teams in the current FD, there are arguably two or three teams in that who are unlikely, even in the medium to long term, to be a genuinely strong senior club.

[L.T.F.C.]

Blah Blah Blah...
Joe Gamble
Stephen Bradley

Nuff said.

Attacking Players:


Striker:
Denis Behan

Nuff said.



http://www.superiorpics.com/news/pic/2007_ocean_thirteen_053.jpg

[legendz]

Are there 24 clubs that are up to LoI? as much as I disagree with how the FAI runs the league, one thing I think they may be right about (or at least the impression they give) is that there aren't 24 clubs of requisite senior standard. Even with eight teams in the current FD, there are arguably two or three teams in that who are unlikely, even in the medium to long term, to be a genuinely strong senior club.

I don't think there are 24 clubs ready at the moment either. What I'm suggesting is the FAI set a cap of 24 but it could take any number of years for enough clubs to make up that number. For example if Cobh and Tralee got in. There'd be only two places for any other aspiring clubs to fill be it in the near or far future. If GUST got in subsequently, it could take a few year for a 24th team to come in but once there would, that would be it.

[culloty82]

If a few northern clubs were relegated from this season's premier, Fanad could reconsider in 2013, and likewise, if clubs operating on a lower budget still performed well in the league, then Carlow might re-assess their options. You wouldn't need to cap the divisions, because no more than four clubs would be interested, but if it's seen not to be a closed league, then those clubs would once again see the First Division as a viable option between now and 2014.

[nigel-harps1954]

In fairness, the argument that there aren't teams able to make the step up, I'd easily have Cobh and Tralee (and Carlow playing out of Buckley) ahead of the 2 Galway teams. If they're allowed in, surely the rest should be allowed. There is always teams willing to join the First Division.

[legendz]

It's a mess at the end of the day. The best approach is earning league status on the field of play. Salthill fair play to them retained their first division status a few years ago by defeating Cobh in a play-off.
The A Championship seemed to be a stretch on Premier clubs resources. A Cork supporter stated recently their squad would be too small, no way they'd have a reserve team. Interest in taking part in the A Championship never took off in a few regions where it might have been expected. Unfortunately now a few clubs, including Dynamos, are caught in between.
If a third/intermediary tier is ever looked at again, it'll need at least a dozen first team clubs to make it viable.

[nigel-harps1954]

http://extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/7343/

Interesting article with new Wexford Youths boss who reckons he can get them promoted over the next 2 or 3 seasons.

Also interesting to note they started pre-season with a squad of 28 players!

[Trainee]

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/7349/

[nigel-harps1954]

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/7349/

Good read there. Glad to see some sort of media coverage about the shambles we call a first division.

[derm]

Of course, what distinguishes the foreign clubs is they had to restart at a lower level of the pyramid, and while in Limerick's case the lowest rung was the First Division, FORAS and Derry could have been sent to the A Championship, but the risk to the clubs futures probably overruled that.

That's what FORAS thought too. We applied for an A Championship license but the FAI advised us to apply for the first. No doubt it helped that we were the only club in Cork (Ramblers in the A already) unlike Galway's situation.

If Tralee or Cobh meet the first division licensing requirements they should be left in. A ten team division is workable, nine's a mess but eight is just a disaster.

[D24Saint]

http://www.extratime.ie/newsdesk/articles/7349/

the Fai shouldn't be getting away with this its making fools of the clubs in the first division a kids league could drum up more teams to compete.

[gormacha]

If Tralee or Cobh meet the first division licensing requirements they should be left in. A ten team division is workable, nine's a mess but eight is just a disaster.

Agree that Tralee or Cobh should be let in if they get a license, even if it was just one of them. Nine teams in the division isn't a problematic number at all - it gives eight teams to be played four times each, giving a perfectly respectable 32 game season.

Ten teams gives either a 36 game season (which the FAI and some clubs clearly baulk at) or a 27 game season like last year, with all the nonsense of playing some teams twice at home but only once away, and vice versa. 27 games is just too few anyway.

[bluewhitearmy]

Agree that Tralee or Cobh should be let in if they get a license, even if it was just one of them. Nine teams in the division isn't a problematic number at all - it gives eight teams to be played four times each, giving a perfectly respectable 32 game season.

Ten teams gives either a 36 game season (which the FAI and some clubs clearly baulk at) or a 27 game season like last year, with all the nonsense of playing some teams twice at home but only once away, and vice versa. 27 games is just too few anyway.

There was 30 games last year. People are complaining that the 28 games we have now is a joke cant see how making it one less makes it better being honest.

[gormacha]

There was 30 games last year. People are complaining that the 28 games we have now is a joke cant see how making it one less makes it better being honest.

Ah yes, my mistake. Don't know where my head was.

My point is still the same though. A nine team division with 32 games is better than a ten team division with 27.

[blue til i die]

There was 30 games last year. People are complaining that the 28 games we have now is a joke cant see how making it one less makes it better being honest.

One or two extra games at home can make a big difference for teams with tight budgets, but not drastically I would imagine. The fact we only play seven other teams is what annoys me, the repetition will drive me insane.

[nigel-harps1954]

One or two extra home games can mean 5-10 grand for a team struggling financially like Harps. That would mean the world of a difference.

[bluewhitearmy]

Ah yes, my mistake. Don't know where my head was.

My point is still the same though. A nine team division with 32 games is better than a ten team division with 27.

Read your post wrong i thought you were saying that a 10 team league with 27 games was better my mistake :o

[bluewhitearmy]

One or two extra games at home can make a big difference for teams with tight budgets, but not drastically I would imagine. The fact we only play seven other teams is what annoys me, the repetition will drive me insane.

I had read gormacha post wrong and had thought he was saying 10 teams with 27 games was better then 8 with 28 games.....

[atfconline]

Some changes confirmed.


Please note that SD Galway are playing their home matches in Terryland Park on Friday nights and Finn Harps have changed from Friday to Saturday nights for home matches.

The FAI Ford Cup Third Round (where the Airtricity League clubs enter) has been renamed as the Second Round and the old Fourth Round is the new Third Round. This is due to a reconfiguration of the competition format.

[Lim till i die]

One or two extra home games can mean 5-10 grand for a team struggling financially like Harps. That would mean the world of a difference.

Outside Derry a couple of years ago

When's the last time you reckon Harps took five grand on a home gate??

As for ten grand?! :eek:

Talking a good few years I'd say.

[Mr A]

Certainly for the first home game of the season before last, there was over 1000 at that. There were a few other games that wouldn't have been far off but mostly well under obviously.

On the other hand you'd make a bit extra out of match sponsorship, ball sponsorship, extra lotto sales, a bit of merchandise etc with the extra game.

Hopefully the slightly shortened season means we're paying wages for less time and it all balances out anyway.

[nigel-harps1954]

^ What he said.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Outside Derry a couple of years ago

When's the last time you reckon Harps took five grand on a home gate??

As for ten grand?! :eek:

Talking a good few years I'd say.

And this from a Limerick fan....

[Jofspring]

And this from a Limerick fan....

Ya and your point is?

He was just pointing out that very few games will get you ten grand.

[Nah Nah Nah Nah]

Ya and your point is?

He was just pointing out that very few games will get you ten grand.

My point is that any team in the first division where no one gets over 1k a game, and
more get less then half that (probably including Limerick), shouldn't be laughing at the crowds that Harps get.

Also the harps fan never said they would get 10k per game. He said 1-2 games could mean 5-10k

[Jofspring]

My point is that any team in the first division where no one gets over 1k a game, and
more get less then half that (probably including Limerick), shouldn't be laughing at the crowds that Harps get.

Also the harps fan never said they would get 10k per game. He said 1-2 games could mean 5-10k

But where is he laughing at Harps crowds? Whats him being a Limerick fan got to do with the point he was trying to make?

All he is saying is where barr big games against the likes of Derry would most teams pull in 10 grand a game which is a fair enough point.

Most teams this year in the first division will be doing well to have 500-600 people at games, including ourselves.

[nigel-harps1954]

My point is that any team in the first division where no one gets over 1k a game, and
more get less then half that (probably including Limerick), shouldn't be laughing at the crowds that Harps get.

Also the harps fan never said they would get 10k per game. He said 1-2 games could mean 5-10k


Not often you'll see a Sligo fan stick up for a Harps fan. :eek:

Seriously though, what you say is correct. It's not only attendance but as Mr.A said, it's match day income as a whole. Be it a few shirts sold, half time draw, soup and tea, or anything. One home match can mean a lot to a club financially.

[sadloserkid]

My point is that any team in the first division where no one gets over 1k a game, and
more get less then half that (probably including Limerick), shouldn't be laughing at the crowds that Harps get.

Also the harps fan never said they would get 10k per game. He said 1-2 games could mean 5-10k

Who's laughing? :confused: The only person here having a cut at another club's crowds is you in the part I've marked in your post.

[Lim till i die]

And this from a Limerick fan....


My point is that any team in the first division where no one gets over 1k a game, and
more get less then half that (probably including Limerick), shouldn't be laughing at the crowds that Harps get.

Also the harps fan never said they would get 10k per game. He said 1-2 games could mean 5-10k

I was just pointing out that he was overestimating (fairly drastically) the "benefits" of playing two extra games.

Hope that relaxes you a small bit x x.

[nigel-harps1954]

I was just pointing out that he was overestimating (fairly drastically) the "benefits" of playing two extra games.

Hope that relaxes you a small bit x x.

I don't think there was any drastic over-estimation at all.

[Lim till i die]

Say you get an extra home game.

Well that means an extra away game aswell.

Say you get SD Galway as your extra home game.

You make two and a half grand tops.

Say you get Waterford as your extra away game.

Probably gonna cost you around twelve to fifteen hundred quid.

[nigel-harps1954]

Not gonna argue costs, but going by your own judgements, something as little as 1000 quid could mean everyone getting their weeks wages or the electricity bills being paid.

[Lim till i die]

I didn't even take the extra weeks wages into account actually. :eek:

[nigel-harps1954]

Sweet jesus....you don't give in do you.

[Lim till i die]

It just dawned on me when you mentioned wages is all.

Scary business, this league of ireland. :eek:

[Trainee]

Salthill devon have an EGM next Sunday as they need to amend their Constitution so they can change their name and colours.

http://www.salthilldevon.ie/Latest-News/Norice-of-EGM.

Interesting to see what happens if they vote no to proposed changes

[Tir Oilean]

STD Galway will bend their rules to suit just as the FAI(L) do to suit themselves. Cant wait for the car crash that'll be STD Galway/ Galway United or whatever the feck they call themselves after a few seasons on the bottom of the new 16 team first division. The politics of Abbotstown is no different than what goes on in the Dáil.

[geezer]

STD Galway will bend their rules to suit just as the FAI(L) do to suit themselves. Cant wait for the car crash that'll be STD Galway/ Galway United or whatever the feck they call themselves after a few seasons on the bottom of the new 16 team first division. The politics of Abbotstown is no different than what goes on in the Dáil.

its just a cosmetic exercise according to the chairman of the league who is a member there. So they will be only changing the name the day after their opening game Confused.com. There is a lot of former GUFC high flyers and strongly linked people with the fai on their committee too.

I dont think Terryland has a stadium cert either

[Guitd]

and according to our great league licencing policy according to a letter sent to Tarlee the reason that they could not be considered was because "OF GALWAY UNITED FC WITHDRAWING THEIR LICENCE APPLICATION AND THE SUITATION IN GAL;WAY" OMG !!!!! what a cop out

[gufct]

No engineers inspection done or paid for by sdg for their new ground although every other club had to fork out €1,900 approx as it is part of licensing .

[geezer]

No engineers inspection done or paid for by sdg for their new ground although every other club had to fork out €1,900 approx as it is part of licensing .

The chairman is a sdfc member we wont have to pay im sure, it has to be done this week

[Jofspring]

The chairman is a sdfc member we wont have to pay im sure, it has to be done this week

Whats the story, are you supporting Salthill Devon Galway now? Going by your last few comments referring to SD Galway.

I thought you said you'd never be seen supporting another team in Terryland?


well they are the facts, it may not be up to your standards but we do what we can up here, and will continue to try. Enjoy your trip to Terryland, and Fahys, i might see you in Fahys but no way in terryland


Great Result, sd GALWAY UTD


Its all worked perfectly, now just wait for Galway to kicks limerick smug ass when yee come to fortress Terryland


like barings bank at the end all smoke and mirrors. But when you attend Terryland spot the difference if you can. Its fantastic to be in the mix though cant wait till next week when it starts SD Galway Utd in Terryland


we should be able to tag on the United and drop the SD next season id say.

handy way of avoiding the debt, same togs, same shirt,same sponsors, same directors, same former committee, same players, same former management team, same ground rent free courtesy of the governing body and an indoor dome in drom to boot.. excellent result

While some of your comments seem a bit tongue in cheek it's still very confusing where you currently stand.

[Tir Oilean]

I assure you there is no die hard GUFC fan that would support this team.