FIFA and Non Sovereign States

[geysir]

Okay, so, Kosovo, I'm not keen on recognising a bandit state, despite the land being beautiful and possessing a dreamlike quality. It is run for the benefit of the US and their global war on, well, whatever takes your fancy. The whole scale removal of the Croatian (catholic) community is almost complete and the Kosovan government are responsible for the looting and sale of sacred relics from the former enclave. So letting the crims at the head of this statelet get further recognition, I don't know. Why not let in Republika Srpska, Croatian Herzegovina and Transdnestria, ganglands like Kosovo but without the US military bases.

If the Caucasus republics go solo, you've got a rake (a proper term) of republics from Russia to go, Tatarstan, the Jewish Republic, Komi, Mordovia, Chuvashia etc etc. Though the AJR will probably going into Asia. It can get messy.

Still don't know about pre-qualifying, anywhere, let the big boys slog it out and spread the light. As it's going we're going to have a closed shop like the 3/6 nations where countries willing to put the work in are excluded.
That's a desperately pathetic attempt to give a synopsis of the Kosova claim for independence from their imposed (post WW2) connection with Serbia.
But that's not really up for debate in this section.
Kosova is recognised as a republic by the majority in Europe and elsewhere. And it's only a matter of time before de jure becomes de facto.
As to what constitutes a nation is another discussion, but it's not ethnicity, language, religion or race. There are countless examples of nations with various combinations of all 4 components. Discord happens when one ethnic group is treated as 2nd class, suppressed in some shape or form and the ethnic group seeks independence.
India contains a multitude of states, far more diverse in language and culture, than what exists between the various states of Europe. It was the English who united India into its current shape. And in almost every federal state in India, there are independence movements, primarily because one (majority) ethnic group in a federal state seeks to dominate another minority ethnic group, whether it be with language, culture, political representation, economic exploitation, job opportunities etc.

[Closed Account 2]

Okay, so, Kosovo, I'm not keen on recognising a bandit state, despite the land being beautiful and possessing a dreamlike quality. It is run for the benefit of the US and their global war on, well, whatever takes your fancy. The whole scale removal of the Croatian (catholic) community is almost complete and the Kosovan government are responsible for the looting and sale of sacred relics from the former enclave. So letting the crims at the head of this statelet get further recognition, I don't know. Why not let in Republika Srpska, Croatian Herzegovina and Transdnestria, ganglands like Kosovo but without the US military bases.


I remember there were a lot of rumours 5-10 years ago about the senior figures in the Kosovan Goverment (or the KLA, at the time) being involved in organ trafficking. It seemed they would take the organs out of prisoners (and later foreigners who had been promised jobs in the country) and transplant them into fee paying health tourists. Wasn't there some big controversy there where some Turkish kid collapsed at an airport after selling/being forced to sell his kidney, and the trail ended up going back to the Kosovan Health Minister?

[geysir]

I don't know what criminal activity has to do with Kosovo's popularly recognised claim for independence or what it has to do with validating Serbia's (some would say) bizarre claim to 'own' Kosovo or Kosovo's long campaign to get Uefa/Fifa recognition for their football team.

[bennocelt]

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=gib/index.html

Its official, Gibraltar will have a team from now on, and two league teams in UEfA football comps

[ArdeeBhoy]

Do they even have a League? And has got to be a fairly low standard, well below even the LSL?

[NeverFeltBetter]

Of course they have a league. And of course, as UEFA members, they get to enter club teams into Euro competition, same as San Marino and Andorra and any other micro-nation.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, but San Marino/Andorra teams play in neighbouring countries leagues.

Gibraltar don't have that luxury...

[pineapple stu]

San Marino and Andorra still have leagues though.

[ArdeeBhoy]

But according to their FA's their best, albeit very poor, clubs play in the Lge. 'pyramid' of their neighbouring FA?

[pineapple stu]

They have one team in the neighbouring FA alright, but they can't qualify for Europe.

[Stuttgart88]

I remember there were a lot of rumours 5-10 years ago about the senior figures in the Kosovan Goverment (or the KLA, at the time) being involved in organ trafficking. It seemed they would take the organs out of prisoners (and later foreigners who had been promised jobs in the country) and transplant them into fee paying health tourists. Wasn't there some big controversy there where some Turkish kid collapsed at an airport after selling/being forced to sell his kidney, and the trail ended up going back to the Kosovan Health Minister?
In the UK they'd be called entrepreneurs, or wealth creators. As long as they weren't foreign.

[sparky12345678]

That's a desperately pathetic attempt to give a synopsis of the Kosova claim for independence from their imposed (post WW2) connection with Serbia.
But that's not really up for debate in this section.
Kosova is recognised as a republic by the majority in Europe and elsewhere. And it's only a matter of time before de jure becomes de facto.

As to what constitutes a nation is another discussion, but it's not ethnicity, language, religion or race. There are countless examples of nations with various combinations of all 4 components. Discord happens when one ethnic group is treated as 2nd class, suppressed in some shape or form and the ethnic group seeks independence.


Kosovo is NOT recognised by Spain, Greece, Serbia, Bosnia, Romania, Russia, Israel, China, India.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_Kosovo#Entities_that_ do_not_recognise_Kosovo_as_an_independent_state
So you need to get China on board. Russia (wont happen), Spain (wont happen) as well as other major countries.
Kosovo as a state has alot of problems (I was there recently) and does not function as a normal state.
As with any conflict there are many issues from both sides to consider in terms of minority rights (Serbs are at risk there and their cultural heritage).

[sparky12345678]

I don't know what criminal activity has to do with Kosovo's popularly recognised claim for independence or what it has to do with validating Serbia's (some would say) bizarre claim to 'own' Kosovo or Kosovo's long campaign to get Uefa/Fifa recognition for their football team.
its not so bizzare the serbian kingdom has its roots there. no more bizzare than irelands claim over N. Ireland

[NeverFeltBetter]

The one we gave up?

[ArdeeBhoy]

Think he means the historical and cultural one, rather than any one enshrined in the constitution.

[Gather round]

its not so bizzare the serbian kingdom has its roots there. no more bizzare than irelands claim over N. Ireland

Serbia's claim is largely based on a battle against the Turks in the 14th century, in an area where Serbs have been a minority population (now less than 10%) since the 19th. A better comparison might be if NI had a claim over Drogheda and the Boyne Valley :(

[ArdeeBhoy]

Mainly because they allowed it to be settled by ethnic Albanians as the general terrain is so in hospitable.

As for the North, hardly likely they would have a claim on anything given it didn't exist 323 years ago...

[geysir]

I see the GFA have also been granted the request "to allow the best-placed non-qualified domestic championship club to enter the UEFA Europa League from the 2015/16 season, rather than the domestic cup runners-up, should the domestic cup winners also qualify for the UEFA Champions League via the final championship standings"

That's not a bad idea.

[BonnieShels]

I see the GFA have also been granted the request "to allow the best-placed non-qualified domestic championship club to enter the UEFA Europa League from the 2015/16 season, rather than the domestic cup runners-up, should the domestic cup winners also qualify for the UEFA Champions League via the final championship standings"

That's not a bad idea.

http://theonlyblogworthreading.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/science-sarcasm-professor-frink-comic-book-guy-631.jpg?w=760

[peadar1987]

Mainly because they allowed it to be settled by ethnic Albanians as the general terrain is so in hospitable.

As for the North, hardly likely they would have a claim on anything given it didn't exist 323 years ago...

Too bad for the North that the cut-off for having a legitimate claim to anything was 324 years ago, right?

[Gather round]

Too bad for the North that the cut-off for having a legitimate claim to anything was 324 years ago, right?

Was that the last time we won an away qualifier against a non bottom seed?

Apart from a fluke in Slovenia of course.

[ArdeeBhoy]

No, it was the last time yer wardrobe was remotely, er, 'topical'...
:rolleyes:

[geysir]

Was that the last time we won an away qualifier against a non bottom seed?

Apart from a fluke in Slovenia of course.
When times are harder than usual, the word 'fluke' is dropped and replaced with gritty/backs to the walls/courageous victory.

[ArdeeBhoy]

I see the GFA have also been granted the request "to allow the best-placed non-qualified domestic championship club to enter the UEFA Europa League from the 2015/16 season, rather than the domestic cup runners-up, should the domestic cup winners also qualify for the UEFA Champions League via the final championship standings"

That's not a bad idea.

Maybe, but this seems to make a mockery of their club sides, never mind their 'national' team.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24299819

[NeverFeltBetter]

Whether or not their teams are mockery worthy is beside the point. There are members of UEFA, so those clubs can play in UEFA competitions.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Which they shouldn't be!

Not over real countries or distinctive regions.

[NeverFeltBetter]

Well too bad, they are.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Well, yes.
UEFA knows soo much about the geopolitics of Europe.
:rolleyes:

Total double standards.

[Stuttgart88]

Whether or not their teams are mockery worthy is beside the point. There are members of UEFA, so those clubs can play in UEFA competitions.
Acc to Independent on Sunday, UEFA wants to invite teams from the Americas to the 2020 Euros, in what seems to be an escalation of the Platter v Platini spat.

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/exclusive-uefa-plot-to-turn-the-euros-into-alternative-world-cup-8861335.html

[ArdeeBhoy]

The comments, in the main, say it all...

[BonnieShels]

So the Cyprus Turkish Football Association will soon be no more (than a regional FA)... a precedent for us splitters perhaps?


The Cyprus Football Association (CFA) and Cyprus Turkish Football Association (CFTA) have signed a provisional arrangement for football in Cyprus, which aims to unify and facilitate the progress of football on the Mediterranean island after more than five decades of separation.

The arrangement, which has come to fruition following several months of consultation and discussion, was signed on Tuesday at FIFA's headquarters in Zurich by the CFA president Costakis Koutsokoumnis, CTFA president Hasan Sertoğlu, FIFA President Joseph Blatter and UEFA President Michel Platini.

A number of principles govern the arrangement. The signatories pledge to respect fully the FIFA and UEFA statutes and all international sport principles. Under the arrangement, the CFA, as a member of FIFA and UEFA, is deemed the governing body responsible for organising, administering and controlling football in Cyprus, as well as the body responsible for any international football activities in Cyprus.

In addition, the arrangement concerns only football-related matters, does not set any precedent for the Cypriot political issue, and remains provisional until a solution is found in relation to Cyprus, which has been partitioned since 1974. The arrangement comes into force upon the approval of the CFA and CTFA general assemblies.

"Today is a historic day for football in Cyprus, but also for the Cypriot people in general," said Mr Koutsokoumnis. "After 60 years of separation, it is now possible to reunite football. The fact that we have got to this stage, under the auspices of FIFA and UEFA, and drawn up and signed a road map for a united Cypriot football gives us all hope that we can solve all of the issues that lie ahead, provided the good will shown until now continues.

"To our Turkish Cypriot friends, I say that they have gained from our reunification," he added. "Our warmest thanks to President Blatter for his crucial role today, to President Platini, to the Turkish Cypriot delegation, with whom we shall be meeting with more often from now, and the CFA members delegation for the support that they have shown me."

"We live in a world in which it is more difficult to divide than to unite, which means that today is all the more exceptional," said Mr Platini. "It is a historic moment for Cypriot football, and I would like to congratulate the presidents of the two associations, who have shown exemplary courage and perseverance."

"Both the Cyprus Football Association and the Cyprus Turkish Football Association are today providing the whole world with an excellent example of how football can build bridges and bring people together after a long period of conflict," said Mr Blatter. "I would like to thank both associations and UEFA for their outstanding contribution to this milestone arrangement."

A number of provisions are to be implemented under the arrangement. The CTFA will become a member of the CFA as an association, in accordance with the CFA statutes and regulations, with all clubs registered under the CTFA automatically becoming indirect members of the CFA. The CFA will also recognise the CTFA's competences over CTFA football matters, including the right to organise championships among its members in accordance with FIFA and UEFA statutes and regulations.

Both associations agree to set up a steering committee to work for the implementation of the arrangement, and covering areas such as participation in CFA competitions; development programmes offered by FIFA and UEFA; club friendly and friendly international matches; participation in the UEFA Regions' Cup; UEFA coaching licence system for Turkish-Cypriot coaches; refereeing, match observers and international referees.

http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=cyp/news/newsid=2018929.html?rss=2018929+Landmark+arrangeme nt+for+Cyprus

[ArdeeBhoy]

Good stuff. Eminently sensible.
Though in our part of the world, some clowns would see this as an equivalent to political unification, which is still a long way off...

[Charlie Darwin]

So the Cyprus Turkish Football Association will soon be no more (than a regional FA)... a precedent for us splitters perhaps?



http://www.uefa.com/memberassociations/association=cyp/news/newsid=2018929.html?rss=2018929+Landmark+arrangeme nt+for+Cyprus
It's not the same though, is it? This is akin to Kosovo mending their differences with Serbia and rejoining the football association.

[citybone]

What does this mean? Will Turkish Cypriot clubs join the Cypriot league? Will the turkish players get a chance to play for the Cyprus national team? will north Cyprus still play in the non fifa competitions like the NF world cup.

[DannyInvincible]

A far as I understand, the Turkish Cypriot association was not a member of UEFA/FIFA - Northern (Turkish) Cyprus is not recognised as a state or separate entity by either body - but now they're joining the recognised Cypriot association and will fall under its wing as a "regional" association.

[citybone]

http://www.ktff.net/NewsDetail/Index/26

Participation of Northern Cyprus in Cypriot Competitions. I'm guessing the Cypriot Cup would be easily sorted. Im also guessing the North Cyprus league is a lower standard due to less international competition. Merging of leagues seems less feasible straight away especially without a political solution to the divide.

[NeverFeltBetter]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24942820

Gibraltar get started as a UEFA member tomorrow.

[ArdeeBhoy]

More fool UEFA...

They haven't even got their own ground, but are playing their games in Portugal, until they build a new one.
Bit of a farce to put it mildly.

Monaco and The Vatican have more legitimate claims.

[pineapple stu]

Gibraltar 0-0 Slovakia at half time, per their twitter

[citybone]

More fool UEFA...

They haven't even got their own ground, but are playing their games in Portugal, until they build a new one.
Bit of a farce to put it mildly.

Monaco and The Vatican have more legitimate claims.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Victoria_Stadium-west_stands.JPG Looks ok to me/better than andora. Vatican have no claim, they have no pitch within the countries boundaries.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/79/Victoria_Stadium_(Gibraltar).jpg Might have a problem with wind when planes are landing/taking off.

[NeverFeltBetter]

They're hardly the first UEFA team to have to play games outside of their territory. Was it a farce when Andorra did it? Like them, they'll play at home when they're capable of it. Your obvious hostility to the very idea of Gibraltar might be colouring your opinion of their playing arrangements.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/24961656

A credible 0-0 result, for a team destined to be forever 6th seeds.

[DannyInvincible]

Vatican have no claim, they have no pitch within the countries boundaries.

For now, they'll have to stick to the tried and tested downloading of illegal copies of Football Manager 2014 to get their football in the Vatican.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Andorra is a country and full U.N. member, Gibraltar is neither and probably never will be.
As a Brit.territory, it's got more right to send MP's to Westminster than be a member of UEFA, FFS.

The Vatican has definitely got more right too. And something in common with Ireland. See if you can guess, before clicking the link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vatican_City_national_football_team

[geysir]

And I'm sure there are plenty of good pitches in the neighbourhood of the Vatican that could be used. I see the problem/drawback more to do with sex for procreation purposes not being allowed and the lack of a maternity unit as the killer blow.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Not really.

There's a constant supply of fresh blood...

[NeverFeltBetter]

A random thought occurred to me after my "Be A Pro" signed on with Barcelona in FIFA: What would happen to that club in the event of Catalan independence? And Espanyol? Both seen as big symbols of Catalan culture and independence (in a way), but Barca at least would be looking to follow Derry City's lead right?

[bennocelt]

Correct me if I am wrong, but i think Espanyol represent the people who want to remain with Spain, and are very much hated by Barca fans.

[DannyInvincible]

A random thought occurred to me after my "Be A Pro" signed on with Barcelona in FIFA: What would happen to that club in the event of Catalan independence? And Espanyol? Both seen as big symbols of Catalan culture and independence (in a way), but Barca at least would be looking to follow Derry City's lead right?

There are quite a few examples around the globe of clubs playing in leagues outside of their own geographical jurisdiction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_association_football_clubs_playing_in_the_ league_of_another_country). I can't imagine it would be difficult to grant Barcelona similar "exception" if all parties concerned were in favour and stood to benefit.

Trivia question; which three football clubs have won the top-flight league championship of another country or jurisdiction?


Correct me if I am wrong, but i think Espanyol represent the people who want to remain with Spain, and are very much hated by Barca fans.

I suspect you're probably right. I'd never really thought about it before, but the club's name does seem a bit of a give-away. It translates into English as Royal Spanish Sports Club of Barcelona.

[pineapple stu]

Trivia question; which three football clubs have won the top-flight league championship of another country or jurisdiction?
Derry, TNS (Oswestry) and - a Canadian team winning the MLS maybe?

Edit - or is it that Brunei team playing in Singapore and Indonesia?

[nigel-harps1954]

Trivia question; which three football clubs have won the top-flight league championship of another country or jurisdiction?




FC Vaduz of Liechtenstein in Switzerland?

Does Monaco qualify for this? They've surely won the French league a few times?