Tallaght Stadium or Aviva Stadium for Shamrock RVS??

[nigel-harps1954]

The games aren't going to fill Aviva anyway so it's a moot point. The only one that would probably sell out is Spurs and it would be insane to offer the tickets at such a low price.

The problem being if you try charge 25 quid for a game against PAOK you'll get no more than 15,000 in the Aviva. If you're charging €15 you could get 25,000 and potentially more in the ground. I don't know about you, but I'd much rather make the same amount of money and have 10,000 more people in the ground creating a better atmosphere and not making the league look like a bunch of fools in a 1/4 full stadium.
I'm sorry for trying to use logic. I know it's not entirely welcome here.

[legendz]

I hope Rovers get their preferred choice. If they have to go with the Aviva, I'd imagine they'll have to go with a 3 match package.

[Rasher]

Rovers prepare to bring Europe to Tallaght

Soccer : Shamrock Rovers have provisionally been given permission to use Tallaght Stadium for their upcoming Europa League group games.

Uefa have given League of Ireland champions the green light, providing the stadium passes a routine inspection next week when the additional seats are added to bring the attendance up to at least 8,000.

Rovers, who will host Tottenham, Rubin Kazan and PAOK Salonika, were keen to stay in their home ground for the games after making history by reaching the group stages with a 3-2 aggregate win over Partizan Belgrade last week.

Rubin Kazan will be the first to visit on September 15th before the visits of PAOK on November 3rd and Spurs on December 15th.

http://www.irishtimes.com/sports/soccer/2011/0830/1224303229766.html

[nigel-harps1954]

I thought temporary seating wasn't allowed in group stages of european competition? Or is there some sort of super quick McDonalds/Aldi/Lidl type building going up in a week?

Fair play to them whatever the case. Excellent news for the club.

[sheao]

Has to be Tallaght . Has no problem holding the games with seats brought in, just look at the Real Madrid game a few years back.

[mypost]

I thought temporary seating wasn't allowed in group stages of european competition? Or is there some sort of super quick McDonalds/Aldi/Lidl type building going up in a week?

Fair play to them whatever the case. Excellent news for the club.

Temporary seating is allowed. Temporary stands is a different matter.

[nigel-harps1954]

Temporary seating is allowed. Temporary stands is a different matter.


So...how exactly are they putting it up? Just letting the seats lay on the ground? Where's the space for them? Not a dig, just, won't they have to put up some sort of stand to install the seats?

[mypost]

They will have to put up a stand to put the seats in. The definition of "permanent" depends on who you talk to, I guess.

They have this set up in Germany everywhere. For league games they have standing room, and for UEFA games they have temporary seats put in. The difference is, the stand is already there to put them in.

[nigel-harps1954]

Well I'd imagine what they have in Germany is probably something similar to Hill 16 in croke park?
Rovers don't have anything there at all. Unless they had concrete steps put in immediately then obviously something like what Bray have in the Carlisle grounds would be disallowed? Could be wrong with this of course but it's my opinion on it.

[fionnsci]

Richmond Park has a "temporary stand" that has been used in Europe. Has taken a battering alright. RDS also has similar structures anyway.

[nigel-harps1954]

Richmond Park has a "temporary stand" that has been used in Europe. Has taken a battering alright. RDS also has similar structures anyway.

Not in group stages though. They're allowed for qualifying matches

[dfx-]

Not in group stages though. They're allowed for qualifying matches

I'm going to gamble on a whim and say there's more to upgrade Richmond to category three or four than a few seats...

[fionnsci]

I'm going to gamble on a whim and say there's more to upgrade Richmond to category three or four than a few seats...

That's not the issue at all. It's that these structures have been allowed before and, obviously, are allowed at the moment, hence the stands being put in.

[mypost]

Well I'd imagine what they have in Germany is probably something similar to Hill 16 in croke park?

It possibly is, but it shows that temp seating is allowed. The structure has to be permanent though. Tallaght looks a radically different stadium with all 4 sides open. After the first game, we've no home group game for 7 weeks, so as to allow us have the last game at home, then 2 in 5 weeks. But we have some big home league games for the rest of the season, and we could use them then too, if the demand was there. Put the seats in, and leave them there for 3 months.

[nigel-harps1954]

My point being though, surely a set of concrete steps can be put up in the space of a week or 2? Metal frame, reinforced concrete slabs, build a wall around it, slap on a bit of plaster, bobs yer aunt. Thats permanent. Then its a case of the temporary seating being put in. How hard can it be.

[peadar1987]

My point being though, surely a set of concrete steps can be put up in the space of a week or 2? Metal frame, reinforced concrete slabs, build a wall around it, slap on a bit of plaster, bobs yer aunt. Thats permanent. Then its a case of the temporary seating being put in. How hard can it be.

I reckon if the long-term plan is to build a 4-sided stadium like the original plans contained:

http://img45.imageshack.us/img45/6971/stadiumag6.jpg
(Image courtesy of rebelarmyexile)

It would probably be cheaper in the long run not to build a slapdash reinforced concrete structure that would be very hard and expensive to remove if the stadium ever was developed to this level.

Just as an aside (and it probably really belongs in the stadium updates thread), the cost for building a new stadium is supposedly around £1000-£4,000 per seat (http://www.toffeeweb.com/club/business/BusinessCaseforStadium.pdf), although this might be less for stadia with much of the infrastructure already in place. At €15 a ticket, that's about 85-300 sold-out games you need to make your money back (A big range, I know). At the moment, Shams would sell out perhaps ten games a season at increased capacity (four derbies against Bohs and Pats, Dundalk or Sligo if it was a big game in the title race, a couple of European games), so it would probably take in the order of 15-20 years to pay back the costs of building a new stadium, maybe less if the increased attendances at the big games have knock-on effects in the smaller games. Whether that's an acceptable time frame for return on the investment would be up to the Rovers board.

[osarusan]

It's not Shamrock Rovers' stadium. They'd be absolutely insane to start building anything unless they had a million-year lease, and the SDCC aren't likely to build extra stands under any circumstances, especially when Rovers don't even fill the existing stadium more than a few times a season.

[passinginterest]

I think the potential usage for an extra stand from SDCC viewpoint would be to use the Stadium as an outdoor concert venue. It's still highly unlikely that they'd be willing to invest any funds at the moment. And, as has been pointed out, it would be madness for Rovers to go about spending huge sums on stands if they haven't got a watertight, extremely long term, lease.

[Charlie Darwin]

The council and the club have obviously agreed something, though we don't know what. I'm not an expert on leases but I think the club would have a similar right to tenancy as renters do in houses, i.e. as long as they pay their rent and abide by reasonable increases, they can't be thrown out. And, let's face, there's no other football club in Dublin that could afford the rent. If the council and club both feel it would be beneficial to raise capacity, then they'll hammer out an agreement where both pay in proportion to what they expect to gain from it. The cost of construction is also at its lowest point in recent memory so it might be deemed prudent to invest now rather than later.

[poster]

Not bothered with reading through the thread, so...

Is there not a UEFA rule with group stage games that all home games have to be in the same ground.

[pineapple stu]

Yes, there is.

[peadar1987]

It's not Shamrock Rovers' stadium. They'd be absolutely insane to start building anything unless they had a million-year lease, and the SDCC aren't likely to build extra stands under any circumstances, especially when Rovers don't even fill the existing stadium more than a few times a season.

As Charlie Darwin said, Shams do have certain rights as tenants, especially, I think, if they've made their own improvements to the ground. And it hardly makes sense for SDCC to kick them out of Tallaght at any point in the future, they've spent money on the stadium, and they need the rent!

Someone was saying in the thread I lifted that picture from that Marlay Park is no longer being used for concerts. If that's true, Tallaght would be an ideal place to move them to. Nice stadium, with good transport links to town.

Not that I necessarily think it is the right thing to do, but Shams wouldn't have to be mad to consider the possibility of carrying out ground improvements.

[Charlie Darwin]

The Marlay Park concerts this summer were astonishingly unsuccessful. Only the Coronas sold out (though some would say they had nothing to sell out from). The problem with using Tallaght for concerts would be summer football - I don't see how you could have a concert season without destroying the field. It's not like Croke Park.

[peadar1987]

The Marlay Park concerts this summer were astonishingly unsuccessful. Only the Coronas sold out (though some would say they had nothing to sell out from). The problem with using Tallaght for concerts would be summer football - I don't see how you could have a concert season without destroying the field. It's not like Croke Park.

I know nothing about pitch maintenance, but how long would it take to get the pitch right again after a concert? If there was a concert or two before the mid-season break, and Shams put in a request to play their games immediately before and after the break away from home, you could have 3 or 4 weeks after the concerts to get the pitch back to a perfect playing condition.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd think it was more about money than time. Croke Park had to be relaid after the U2 concerts - Tallaght probably wouldn't need anything that drastic but I can't see it being economical for the promoter.

[thejollyrodger]

I hope Shams get their games at Tallaght and not be out the €200,000 (whatever it costs) to rent Aviva for all 3 home games. The solutions for Shams would be to complete the stadium and bring it up to 10,000 seater capacity which would solve any European criteria for a long time to come. It would cost a few euro though and attendance during the year would never really justify it.

[freewheel30]

What are this guy's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiY4tb_P2sE#t=2m05s) chances of getting a ticket . . .

[HulaHoop]

Our chairman was on off the ball on newstalk last night where amongst other things he said there will be permanent seating installed in Tallaght in time for next Tuesday's UEFA inspection.

Can be listened to here http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/22/wednesday/2/popup

[fionnsci]

How permanent is "permanent"? As in forevermore?

[Spudulika]

A question a Rovers insider can answer - have the club signed a lease with the SDCC and for how long (if they have signed).

[passinginterest]

How permanent is "permanent"? As in forevermore?

It's hard to know. Permanent to fulfill the UEFA criteria doesn't have to mean permanent at all for the stadium. It could well be put up now and removed in December. I suppose it should become a bit clearer in the next day or two. I must remember to have a look on the way home to see if there's any activity there this evening.

[Macy]

It'd be interesting to know whether the likes of Brays stand count as "permanant". If they do, that'd have to be the route if this seating is to be in by the inspection on Tuesday?

Roche did well on Off The Ball - it's always good to hear Early being uncomfortable out of his premier league comfort zone, and he must have been disgusted that the LoI infiltrated the football show. Roche also made all the right noises about investing in the training facility as well, rather than blowing it on players (again, the off the ball lads sounded a bit disappointed imo).

[CuanaD]

Our chairman was on off the ball on newstalk last night where amongst other things he said there will be permanent seating installed in Tallaght in time for next Tuesday's UEFA inspection.

Can be listened to here http://media.newstalk.ie/listenback/22/wednesday/2/popup
Any idea how many minutes of that toss I have to listen to before he comes on?

[Charlie Darwin]

Murray's interview is the last 15 minutes of the linked clip. Jonathan Roche comes on about 15 minutes into part 3.

[oldfan]

A question a Rovers insider can answer - have the club signed a lease with the SDCC and for how long (if they have signed).
I believe they have a four year "agreement" and are allowed to use it on a stated number of occasions throughout the year ( 40 I heard mentioned) but no lease as it's a publicly owned,built and paid for and maintained facility
Rumours ( from Bohs and Pats sources so...) that the rent they pay is only about half of what would be the economic value.

[Charlie Darwin]

There's no fixed "economic value" for a stadium. The market value is whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. As far as I'm aware, Rovers are the only soccer club in a position to pay the rent and generate income from the stadium. Capacity is too small for the egg chasers and the pitch is too small for GAA.

[passinginterest]

Work on the new seating in full swing today and UEFA inspection was completed earlier according to Tallaght Stadium's Facebook page. Hopefully it'll get the green light.

[dfx-]

There's no fixed "economic value" for a stadium. The market value is whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay. As far as I'm aware, Rovers are the only soccer club in a position to pay the rent and generate income from the stadium. Capacity is too small for the egg chasers and the pitch is too small for GAA.

Junior or reserve rugby games - as in the Argentina Jaguars match and junior gah games are ok, but obviously not that much of a market for it, in comparison to Rovers. Bohs and Pats sources are not good sources..

[legendz]

Any pictures of the development work going on?

[Candystripe]

Hopefully all the games will be played in tallaght.

I know when we got through to the play-off round V PSG we done everything possible to get the game played in the Brandywell even though we could have made treble the gate money by moving it.

The atmosphere was unreal.

fk the barstoolers, look after your own fans and if their are any spares try and sell them to other L.O.I. fans who will be fully behind you's during the games.

[Cuyahoga]

Decision from UEFA tomorrow Wednesday.

[HulaHoop]

Any pictures of the development work going on?

Courtesy of ashbourne on srfcultrasforum.eu

http://i53.tinypic.com/2ewlkll.jpg

[gormacha]

There's no fixed "economic value" for a stadium. The market value is whatever the highest bidder is willing to pay.

[GEEK MODE]

That depends on what economic text book or theory you read. What you are referring to is exchange value. Their are many other ways to calculate value.

In today's climate, many would argue that it would be very dodgy if anyone were to use a State asset at less than its Full Economic Cost (FEC). I sincerely doubt that any LOI club renting community facilities pays enough to cover the FEC, including both Shamrock Rovers and Waterford United. This is a de facto subsidy. Does this offer an unfair advantage to the club renting community facilities? It's unclear, as although they are subsidised, they can't use the facility to raise monies, or to use it as collateral. It'd be very interesting to know what the various costs are. Cork City would also be interesting to analyse.

[/GEEK MODE]

[cob655]

Didnt know that could be classed as permanent.Do you know if Sham Rvs bought it or are just renting it?
And is it just one end of the goals or both?
It would be great if its passed.

[ger121]

Decision from UEFA tomorrow Wednesday.

Any news of a decision yet?

[legendz]

Any news of a decision yet?

No news since the previous update:

Tuesday, 06 September 2011 15:34
Venue decision expected tomorrow (Wednesday) following today's UEFA inspection at Tallaght.

Earlier today, a representative from UEFA inspected the works at Tallaght Stadium that are underway to have the stadium passed for UEFA Europa League Group stage games. A decision on the suitability of the venue is expected from UEFA tomorrow (Wednesday).

Shamrock Rovers F.C., South Dublin County Council and the FAI have been working together to put in place the plans and infrastructure necessary to comply with UEFA regulations.

[Dunny]

Still no word yet.

[soccerc]

It's Tallaght

[passinginterest]

Great news!

[Candystripe]

Well done rovers. So is it both ends and what will be the capacity when it's finished?