View Full Version : Does the success of one team in Europe benefit the league as a whole?
I think Derry are sliding back too. But fair enough
askmehoop
01/12/2011, 4:14 PM
i think success breeds success, the performances from the likes of pats, derry and cork over the last few years i think played a small part in rovers performances in europe. It showed to other teams and players that we can compete and win at this level, the teams going into europe next year will look at rovers and say if they can do it then so can we, maybe not group stage but certainly the latter stages of qualifying and who knows, with a bit of luck anything can happen.
Dodge
02/12/2011, 10:06 AM
i think success breeds success, the performances from the likes of pats, derry and cork over the last few years i think played a small part in rovers performances in europe
Without trying to claim any of your success, they played a HUGE role in rovers progressing as if it wasn't for others, you wouldn't have been seeded in the first round, when you faced a woeful Tallinn side. Lose in that round to a seeded side and you were done for the year
Beating Partizan was all your own work
legendz
02/12/2011, 2:16 PM
Was the removal of Derry and Cork from the Premier a few seasons back a help for Rovers? I don't want to take away from Rovers success but I think the league was a bit easier following the demotion of both clubs for non-football reasons. We've seen Derry do well this year in their first season back in the Premier. I doubt Cork can have the same impact of Derry on their return but in the next few years they should be back challenging near the top.
I agree with Charlie, unless Rovers can bring in better players from abroad, they are not going to pull away. I don't think they have that money? I think the top 3 from this year can push each other over the next few years. I can't see one at moment pulling away from the others. Cork will probably get into the mix as well. As for other clubs, I'm not so sure but who knows?
Spudulika
03/12/2011, 6:51 AM
Rovers have used their income wisely in the last few years, they have a purpose built stadium, support from the local council and a large fan base. They were consisent at ome when other clubs wobbled (on and off the field) and caught a good tail wind in Europe - which is what matters. If they want to make the group stage of the EL again next season they have to invest by bringing in more than rejects from english clubs, but they need to do it wisely. Cork, Derry and Pats can do the same with continued good fan support and stability at board level. Sligo have the fanbase and can round out the top 5. The rest of the league, with all due respect, is playing catch up. The Shels board are not going to repeat mistakes of the past, Dundalk are Dundalk, UCD will continue to pull off decent wins and be a feeder club, Bray will do the usual and punch above their weight, Drogheda are in Brays position. Bohs have the fanbase but problems closing in,while Monaghan with El Rod in charge are never more thn 24 hours away from the next crisis. But this is how leagues are around the world, a strong club leads the way and the rest play catch up.
As for how our league is reflected in the foreign media thanks to Rovers - we're actually mentioned! Here I've been reading and listening to almost all positive reports from media on how Rovers came and didn't just hang on for a draw, or how the fans kept supporting the team and how it's a good time for Irish football - Rovers and the LOI (including Pats) were even mentioned last night on Russia 1 during the draw for the Euro's, that wouldn't have been the case without this years improvements. It's now up to the other clubs to engage their fanbase to tap into the community for solid revenue streams. Next season I can see another club making the group stage.
mypost
03/12/2011, 7:39 AM
Was the removal of Derry and Cork from the Premier a few seasons back a help for Rovers? I don't want to take away from Rovers success but I think the league was a bit easier following the demotion of both clubs for non-football reasons.
It wasn't a help, we were already ahead of them by then.
The difference between us and other clubs in Europe is, we had the belief to go further, and they didn't. The rest were just happy to reach a certain round, and that was progress for them. We had to go to Partizan Belgrade in 35c of a sauna and win in their backyard. It would have been easy to give it up like the others did for years, but we just keep battling away. That's why we're in the groups. With a more favourable draw next year, we have reason to be hopeful of surpassing this year's European achievements.
legendz
03/12/2011, 9:32 AM
It wasn't a help, we were already ahead of them by then.
The difference between us and other clubs in Europe is, we had the belief to go further, and they didn't. The rest were just happy to reach a certain round, and that was progress for them. We had to go to Partizan Belgrade in 35c of a sauna and win in their backyard. It would have been easy to give it up like the others did for years, but we just keep battling away. That's why we're in the groups. With a more favourable draw next year, we have reason to be hopeful of surpassing this year's European achievements.
I would not disagree with that. I know Sligo had a tough draw but I didn't think they acquitted themselves well at all this year. Last year Rovers acquitted themselves well despite having to bow out against Juventus.
MMVIII
03/12/2011, 8:11 PM
It wasn't a help, we were already ahead of them by then.
The difference between us and other clubs in Europe is, we had the belief to go further, and they didn't. The rest were just happy to reach a certain round, and that was progress for them. We had to go to Partizan Belgrade in 35c of a sauna and win in their backyard. It would have been easy to give it up like the others did for years, but we just keep battling away. That's why we're in the groups. With a more favourable draw next year, we have reason to be hopeful of surpassing this year's European achievements.
What a load of nonsense.
sligoman
03/12/2011, 8:23 PM
It wasn't a help, we were already ahead of them by then.
The difference between us and other clubs in Europe is, we had the belief to go further, and they didn't. The rest were just happy to reach a certain round, and that was progress for them. We had to go to Partizan Belgrade in 35c of a sauna and win in their backyard. It would have been easy to give it up like the others did for years, but we just keep battling away. That's why we're in the groups. With a more favourable draw next year, we have reason to be hopeful of surpassing this year's European achievements.Yeah sure we just went to Ukraine for the cheap fags so Cook could sell them when he got back. Didn't try to win the game at all.
placid casual
03/12/2011, 8:24 PM
It wasn't a help, we were already ahead of them by then.
The difference between us and other clubs in Europe is, we had the belief to go further, and they didn't. The rest were just happy to reach a certain round, and that was progress for them. We had to go to Partizan Belgrade in 35c of a sauna and win in their backyard. It would have been easy to give it up like the others did for years, but we just keep battling away. That's why we're in the groups. With a more favourable draw next year, we have reason to be hopeful of surpassing this year's European achievements.
Mypost -Rovers answer to that armani spanner!!
go mypost, go mypost!!
mypost
03/12/2011, 9:06 PM
Yeah sure we just went to Ukraine for the cheap fags so Cook could sell them when he got back. Didn't try to win the game at all.
That's not what I said, or meant. That's your interpretation.
Was the removal of Derry and Cork from the Premier a few seasons back a help for Rovers? I don't want to take away from Rovers success but I think the league was a bit easier following the demotion of both clubs for non-football reasons. We've seen Derry do well this year in their first season back in the Premier. I doubt Cork can have the same impact of Derry on their return but in the next few years they should be back challenging near the top.
While there is no doubt that not having Cork of 2005/2006/2007/Derry made it easier for Rovers - especially given Rovers' poor record in Cork - it can be argued that had both those clubs played by the rules instead, perhaps Rovers would've been able to negotiate them just as easily.
As for how our league is reflected in the foreign media thanks to Rovers - we're actually mentioned! Here I've been reading and listening to almost all positive reports from media on how Rovers came and didn't just hang on for a draw, or how the fans kept supporting the team and how it's a good time for Irish football - Rovers and the LOI (including Pats) were even mentioned last night on Russia 1 during the draw for the Euro's, that wouldn't have been the case without this years improvements. It's now up to the other clubs to engage their fanbase to tap into the community for solid revenue streams. Next season I can see another club making the group stage.
Excellent news on the mentions, more important than the results. Great report in the Independent after the game about local Kazan children singing "Shamrock Rovers champions" outside the ground in broken English to fans with Rovers scarves or shirts. There's 20-30 Rovers scarves (including mine) left behind in new homes in Russia too :cool2:
Spudulika
04/12/2011, 6:54 AM
dfx- it'd be worthwhile someone from the club going through the local media - even with rough translations, as there are some gems to be found. From every single source there is praise for the Rovers fans and to be honest it made me a little proud when good friends of mine from a client club, FC Volga, travelled up to Kazan and spent their time enjoying the organic Irish singing (you probaby noticed how the Russians are the same as Italians and Spanish in being unable to follow a game on their own). http://news.yandex.ru/yandsearch?cl4url=www.gazeta.ru%2Fsport%2F2011%2F1 2%2Fa_3853414.shtml - This gives a rough idea of the online media after the match. And Football Club (weekly tv show) had a special on yesterday which I missed but I believe is going to be online today/tomorrow. One odd thing, or good thing, is that the owner of the only Irish pub (newly opened) in Ulyanovsk and long term sponsor of FC Volga was up with the group. He's Tatar, from Kazan, but in love with all things Irish and is learning English and Irish in order to head over. Though he does have an odd take on Ireland and the Irish.
One gripe I have about Rovers is in their preparation, it just seemed to be lacking and also in the players attire (indulge me one last time). After the 3rd or 4th goal I noticed a Rovers player cupping his hands and blowing into them. I blinked and noticed he wasn't wearing gloves, and there were a couple more at least the same. 1st - you HAVE to wear gloves in that weather, 2nd - blowing into your hands doesn't warm them up, it makes them damp and freezing. What in the name of god were the Rovers backroom staff doing to let players do that?
mypost
04/12/2011, 7:01 AM
Apparantly, the players declined to wear them.
bennocelt
04/12/2011, 8:06 AM
Real men dont wear gloves in a football match, please!:)
El-Pietro
04/12/2011, 8:20 AM
While there is no doubt that not having Cork of 2005/2006/2007/Derry made it easier for Rovers - especially given Rovers' poor record in Cork - it can be argued that had both those clubs played by the rules instead, perhaps Rovers would've been able to negotiate them just as easily.
Sorry what rules did Cork City break again?
Dodge
04/12/2011, 11:57 AM
Sorry what rules did Cork City break again?
Revenue's
Spudulika
04/12/2011, 1:04 PM
Thanks mypost, and to a lesser extend bennocelt :-), seriously, what kind of idiot goes out in sub-zero temperatures with body parts exposed, surely the Rovers crew would have given the players a refresher course in having a brain and telling them to perform at their best they need to do x, y, z. Anyway, hopefully in the future it'll change.
Charlie Darwin
04/12/2011, 2:39 PM
Thanks mypost, and to a lesser extend bennocelt :-), seriously, what kind of idiot goes out in sub-zero temperatures with body parts exposed, surely the Rovers crew would have given the players a refresher course in having a brain and telling them to perform at their best they need to do x, y, z. Anyway, hopefully in the future it'll change.
Surely you haven't been away from Ireland so long you've forgotten that Irish men are prone to reckless and ultimately futile displays of masculinity?
Spudulika
04/12/2011, 3:26 PM
Surely you haven't been away from Ireland so long you've forgotten that Irish men are prone to reckless and ultimately futile displays of masculinity?
Now hang on, there's being a lad and there's being a lad :-) I know you're slagging, but jaysus I mean, they're playing in a major continental competition, little things like this make a difference. Rovers have a good team, a good manager (who has impressed me more in Europe than in domestic competition) and I still feel Rubin were there for a shock. Though you know, evreybody here reckons Rovers will snatch a point from Spurs, even if they send their 1st team.
Charlie Darwin
04/12/2011, 3:30 PM
I dunno man, remember the furore over snoods? I know they were banned because they're potentially dangerous but a lot of current and ex-pros were putting down the players who wore them, as if wanting to be warm was a sign of weakness. I agree it's unprofessional but I think where sort of 'manliness' is involved footballers at all levels are prone to doing stupid things like that.
Spudulika
04/12/2011, 5:44 PM
:-) Charlie you're right. I suppose it's just a common thread in football - especially when the english lead is followed. I'd forgotten about snoods. Next year when an Irish team plays in the money round of Europe and players have extremities falling off with the cold, I hope they'll learn. Cannot take away from the conduct of the team and supporters, really did Ireland proud, not just the LOI.
redobit
04/12/2011, 5:45 PM
I dunno man, remember the furore over snoods? I know they were banned because they're potentially dangerous but a lot of current and ex-pros were putting down the players who wore them, as if wanting to be warm was a sign of weakness. I agree it's unprofessional but I think where sort of 'manliness' is involved footballers at all levels are prone to doing stupid things like that.
Here's a thought. youre a professinal athlete - run around for 90 minutes.
Charlie Darwin
04/12/2011, 6:02 PM
I don't think you quite understand.
peadar1987
04/12/2011, 6:13 PM
Here's a thought. youre a professinal athlete - run around for 90 minutes.
Thank God the Nazis didn't know all you had to do to make the Russian winter a breeze was to run around a bit!
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2009/9/4/1252079739928/Three-German-soldiers-cov-001.jpg
One gripe I have about Rovers is in their preparation, it just seemed to be lacking and also in the players attire (indulge me one last time). After the 3rd or 4th goal I noticed a Rovers player cupping his hands and blowing into them. I blinked and noticed he wasn't wearing gloves, and there were a couple more at least the same. 1st - you HAVE to wear gloves in that weather, 2nd - blowing into your hands doesn't warm them up, it makes them damp and freezing. What in the name of god were the Rovers backroom staff doing to let players do that?
It was only Murray and Rice who weren't wearing gloves. You lose most of your heat through your head, so really you have to wear a hat to keep warm.
A N Mouse
05/12/2011, 3:59 PM
It was only Murray and Rice who weren't wearing gloves. You lose most of your heat through your head, so really you have to wear a hat to keep warm.
Nonsense (http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2008/dec/17/medicalresearch-humanbehaviour)
marinobohs
06/12/2011, 10:12 AM
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2009/9/4/1252079739928/Three-German-soldiers-cov-001.jpg
.....Shamrock Rovers fans en route to Europa Lge game. Still not convinced about "My Post" suggested short cut :o
.....Shamrock Rovers fans en route to Europa Lge game. Still not convinced about "My Post" suggested short cut :o
What was most unsettling was the 95 minute processing time from plane to the 'terminal' in Kazan. Lucky Sligo fans don't visit there 6 times a season, being used to five minutes in Dublin..
poster
06/12/2011, 2:24 PM
"ll take home a Russian vodka? No, we've all had a drink that is bought!"
Jeez, MO'N must have been scuttled!
TiocfaidhArmani
06/12/2011, 2:25 PM
Thank God the Nazis didn't know all you had to do to make the Russian winter a breeze was to run around a bit!
http://static.guim.co.uk/sys-images/Observer/Pix/pictures/2009/9/4/1252079739928/Three-German-soldiers-cov-001.jpg
I nearly spat my coffee over my computer in work reading that:D
*tips hat*
TiocfaidhArmani
06/12/2011, 2:29 PM
Mypost -Rovers answer to that armani spanner!!
go mypost, go mypost!!
I thought personal abuse wasn't allowed on here?
Rovers got one result and you'd swear they were revolutionary to Irish soccer. Get over yourselves. Every bog has its day. You had yours. And that's all it was - a day.
Your right we did get one result, a result that most top teams in europe would be more the happy with
Am already on record as saying Rovers result was magnificent. But its magnificient for you
Most top teams in europe would be disgusted with having to go to extra time with a serbian team. Trying to hype your result makes it aesier for the likes of Armani to use his awful logic to go the other way
Spudulika
06/12/2011, 4:22 PM
What was most unsettling was the 95 minute processing time from plane to the 'terminal' in Kazan. Lucky Sligo fans don't visit there 6 times a season, being used to five minutes in Dublin..
Didn't you guys fly in via Moscow? Why the delay? Kazan is one of the best airports to get through here, especially since they've ramped up investment ahead of the Universiade. I usually am in and out by train or car, but the airport is good. The worst used to be Sheremetyevo in Moscow, one time we were about to touch down in the wrong part of the airport, then pulled up and went into the right one.
Big mess here today, Sligo and Shels and Bohs fans can blame Rovers fans stirring. Troops everywhere in downtown Moscow and St. Petes, arrests of any dissenters and on Sunday I can happily say I was allowed to vote - despite not being Russian or allowed. :-) I even took a pic of my ballot paper, the grandkids will be so proud!
askmehoop
06/12/2011, 4:23 PM
Am already on record as saying Rovers result was magnificent. But its magnificient for you
Most top teams in europe would be disgusted with having to go to extra time with a serbian team. Trying to hype your result makes it aesier for the likes of Armani to use his awful logic to go the other way
On paper, yes, any top side should expect to beat Partizan. But going to an extremely hostile environment to play a football match is not easy, and belgrade is hostile. its really on that basis that i made the statement. as for the armani fella, his opinions dont really count as he generally see's things in black and white
Spudulika
06/12/2011, 4:33 PM
On paper, yes, any top side should expect to beat Partizan. But going to an extremely hostile environment to play a football match is not easy, and belgrade is hostile. its really on that basis that i made the statement. as for the armani fella, his opinions dont really count as he generally see's things in red and white
Corrected.
El-Pietro
06/12/2011, 4:49 PM
On paper, yes, any top side should expect to beat Partizan. But going to an extremely hostile environment to play a football match is not easy, and belgrade is hostile. its really on that basis that i made the statement. as for the armani fella, his opinions dont really count as he generally see's things in green and white hoops
corrected spudulikas correction
HulaHoop
06/12/2011, 6:13 PM
Didn't you guys fly in via Moscow?
No straight to/from Kazan. If Kazan is one of the best Russian airports for getting through immigration/security I'd hate to fly into the worst!
mypost
06/12/2011, 6:23 PM
Most top teams in europe would be disgusted with having to go to extra time with a serbian team.
Such as?
Trying to hype your result makes it aesier for the likes of Armani to use his awful logic to go the other way
The result hasn't been "hyped". It was a great result. Bar the usual suspects, most LOI fans have recognised it as a great and groundbreaking result. It has opened people's eyes abroad, to SRFC and LOI football. That in itself leaves a bigger legacy than the group results.
Dewie101
06/12/2011, 10:28 PM
I thought personal abuse wasn't allowed on here?
Rovers got one result and you'd swear they were revolutionary to Irish soccer. Get over yourselves. Every bog has its day. You had yours. And that's all it was - a day.
I'll assume you meant "Dog"
On the ball there if thats the case, bohs, shels "imaginary" money fueled "day" was exactly what "dogs" get, inevitably feeding off scraps in the not too distant future. Rovers on the other hand will have that "day" for most seasons to come on the back of money that actually exsists, that "day" is something we've done to date since playing in Europe over the last 2 years. dont be bitter at us, aim your bitterness towards the mong who nearly put shels on the brink of extinction and run your club the right way.
With Cork and Derry running their ships in the right direction that "day" will also come to them, good things... ect....
Didn't you guys fly in via Moscow? Why the delay? Kazan is one of the best airports to get through here, especially since they've ramped up investment ahead of the Universiade. I usually am in and out by train or car, but the airport is good. The worst used to be Sheremetyevo in Moscow, one time we were about to touch down in the wrong part of the airport, then pulled up and went into the right one.
Nope straight to Kazan and back. Two queues for 150 people. I don't think they were quite prepared to handle so many people at once..
Big mess here today, Sligo and Shels and Bohs fans can blame Rovers fans stirring. Troops everywhere in downtown Moscow and St. Petes, arrests of any dissenters and on Sunday I can happily say I was allowed to vote - despite not being Russian or allowed. :-) I even took a pic of my ballot paper, the grandkids will be so proud!
Herald - "Russian Federation in ruins after Rovers visit"
Acornvilla
08/12/2011, 11:52 AM
Standards are dropping around here..
Silly question coming up but I've not been paying much attention to the football world of late, is the Shams - Spurs game next week?
Charlie Darwin
08/12/2011, 12:10 PM
Yep, Thursday at 6pm.
marinobohs
08/12/2011, 1:10 PM
Yep, Thursday at 6pm. Fancy your chances CD ? Hopefully a weakened Spurs team might be there for the taking. Would be nice to round the campaign off with a point (or three)
Charlie Darwin
08/12/2011, 1:28 PM
Fancy your chances CD ? Hopefully a weakened Spurs team might be there for the taking. Would be nice to round the campaign off with a point (or three)
Wouldn't have too much hope, no. Players looked exhausted after 50 minutes in Kazan, even the ones who were wearing gloves. Then again, they may be able to raise one more big performance considering the opposition, so who knows.
marinobohs
08/12/2011, 2:09 PM
Wouldn't have too much hope, no. Players looked exhausted after 50 minutes in Kazan, even the ones who were wearing gloves. Then again, they may be able to raise one more big performance considering the opposition, so who knows.
Getting to group stage was an achievement in itself but would be nice to crack the duck egg in the "pts for" column. Cant imagine Spurs will be up for it and a cold wet night in Tallaght..... :D
Always nice to see a LOI team do well against our EPL "superiors" even if it is just to hear the barstoolers tell us how "its only because Spurs didn't care about the result" :rolleyes:
Charlie Darwin
08/12/2011, 2:17 PM
Ah yeah, it'd be great to get something. I think we were just very unlucky to draw PAOK as a third seed since they're clearly far better than that.
ped_ped
08/12/2011, 3:18 PM
Fancy your chances CD ? Hopefully a weakened Spurs team might be there for the taking. Would be nice to round the campaign off with a point (or three)
Wouldn't have too much hope, no. Players looked exhausted after 50 minutes in Kazan, even the ones who were wearing gloves. Then again, they may be able to raise one more big performance considering the opposition, so who knows.
Getting to group stage was an achievement in itself but would be nice to crack the duck egg in the "pts for" column. Cant imagine Spurs will be up for it and a cold wet night in Tallaght..... :D
Always nice to see a LOI team do well against our EPL "superiors" even if it is just to hear the barstoolers tell us how "its only because Spurs didn't care about the result" :rolleyes:
Really scarey how the pleasantries and general . . . non-aggresiveness of these posts stood out like a sore thumb in this thread . . .
Either way, best of luck to Rovers tonight. Point or a narrow win would definitely not be beyond the bounds! (Though nor would a four goal loss . . :p
its next Thursday...
It'll be more difficult to get a result so, what with Spurs being there and all ...
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