Does the success of one team in Europe benefit the league as a whole? [Archive] - Page 3

harleyleeds

04/08/2011, 8:43 PM

There isn't exactly overwhelming numbers attending inter-county GAA games anymore. Donegal v Kildare had 39,000 at it and outside of Dublin was one of the highest attended games this year. Given this was an All-Ireland quarter final you may have expected a lot more in the ground.
I think its a very fair comparison between Handball in Denmark and GAA in Ireland.
If you asked the Irish public, football would most definitely be the most popular sport too, yet the average attendance of the national league must be no more than 1500-2000 between the 2 divisions.

so with only 2000 or less at sligo gaa and same at Rovers is it the case that there is pretty much no sporting interest in the county and by extension the country?
those numbers are terrible really would've expected gaa to be supported somewhat in Ireland. I assume exceptions are like Dubs,Cork and Kerry so other counties must be attrocious.

legendz

04/08/2011, 9:52 PM

Limerick vs Cork in U21 hurling attracted a crowd of over 8000 last night. The GAA have their own problems though in attracting crowds and a much maligned championship structure.
Getting back on topic, I don't think only one club being successful will benefit the league as a whole. If a number of clubs are doing well, it does reflect well on the league. If clubs have their own support network and people who are buying in to what their club is about, I don't think it makes that much of a difference. It is good for the stock of the league though and good to have good news stories and focus on the game itself.

Ezeikial

04/08/2011, 11:17 PM

Limerick vs Cork in U21 hurling attracted a crowd of over 8000 last night. The GAA have their own problems though in attracting crowds and a much maligned championship structure.

If only the GAA had a pryamid or used the Danish model!

corkharps

04/08/2011, 11:33 PM

......NO!

legendz

05/08/2011, 9:59 AM

If only the GAA had a pryamid or used the Danish model!

They have in the club championships and it works brilliantly!! The introduction of Provincial & All-Ireland Intermediate and Junior Club Championships in both codes has been a great success. Provincial and All-Ireland Junior club championship games attract good crowds despite their low profile nationally.

Spudulika

05/08/2011, 10:28 AM

If only the GAA had a pryamid or used the Danish model!

Mock it, but it allows clubs to move up and down, plus it brings a realistic aspect to a game - right now we're stuck in the mid-atlantic and controlled by the whimsy of JD and his carpetbaggers.

Legendz is right to point out the manner in which the GAA have the model in place, you should know yourself how it works in Louth - and especially in hurling where the sport is enjoying a revival since the hurling clubs started kicking up and putting up.

legendz

09/08/2011, 8:47 PM

Derry have earned about €400,000 from McClean's move to Sunderland. What progress would they have had to have made in Europe to earn that amount?

Charlie Darwin

09/08/2011, 9:41 PM

It's the luck of the draw from the point of view of gates/TV/travel expenses. On prize money alone, it would take around 4 rounds. Derry would probably start in the third (maybe second) round of the EL though, so strictly speaking they'd have to qualify and then they'd make lots more than 400k.

SkStu

09/08/2011, 9:46 PM

Derry have earned about €400,000 from McClean's move to Sunderland. What progress would they have had to have made in Europe to earn that amount?

i dont know but that money that Derry will receive will surely benefit the league as a whole...

:)

Nah Nah Nah Nah

10/08/2011, 12:21 PM

Are the Derry players going to go on strike looking for a cut of the transfer fee?

dcfc_1928

10/08/2011, 12:23 PM

Aye - http://weplayonfridays.com/derry-city-players-in-strike-threat/

Are the Derry players going to go on strike looking for a cut of the transfer fee?

Mario

10/08/2011, 4:09 PM

Did McClean play for the previous Derry City club?

So is this club due a development fee to be divided amongst the creditors?

Charlie Darwin

10/08/2011, 4:31 PM

I'm not sure if you're being serious but it is a good question in the event McClean is sold on by Sunderland. I'm not sure whether, for the purposes of dividing the 5%, the new Derry City would be credited with all his development to this point or just the last two years.

horton

10/08/2011, 9:45 PM

Did McClean play for the previous Derry City club?

So is this club due a development fee to be divided amongst the creditors?

AFAIK one local youth team will get a cut of the transfer fee[region of �60,000 according to local paper].

legendz

11/08/2011, 12:47 PM

Will the Rovers EL play-off be on tv next week?

BonnieShels

11/08/2011, 4:56 PM

Yeah. Serbian tv.

legendz

11/08/2011, 5:44 PM

Yeah. Serbian tv.

Fantabulous! RTEngland and Setanta England must have other games to show.

BonnieShels

11/08/2011, 5:59 PM

Was just being facetious Legendz. But could be inadvertently correct.

BonnieShels

11/08/2011, 7:11 PM

Right, I emailed RT� sport. Got back to me straight away. They said there's nothing confirmed yet. Waiting on Setanta to respond.

Charlie Darwin

11/08/2011, 7:33 PM

I'd be surprised if both games weren't shown. It'll be RTE for the home leg and Setanta for the away leg.

culloty82

11/08/2011, 7:58 PM

The fatal flaw with using the Danish League as a model is that, like Belgium, teams tend to rise up the pyramid through mergers between lower-division clubs, so teams like Pats and Shelbourne north of the Liffey or Rovers and UCD on the other would have fused into superclubs.

BonnieShels

11/08/2011, 8:09 PM

I'd say you're right Charlie.

Eh Culloty, Pat's are firmly ensconced on the Southside. Unless you mean the Soccer team in the teacher training college in Drumcondra? Is there one?

BonnieShels

12/08/2011, 8:31 AM

Setanta got back to me this morning.

As was suspected they're looking at the second leg.

legendz

12/08/2011, 1:57 PM

RTE have confirmed first-leg coverage.

BonnieShels

12/08/2011, 2:03 PM

Yeah just read cuyahoga's post

Ezeikial

29/08/2011, 11:24 PM

Small anecdote from a conversation with someone I met today in the course of business:

On hearing of my interest in League of Ireland he said the normal predictable stuff - It's great for the league, It will really raise the profile, It shows that there is real quality here, it will boost attendances across the league etc etc.

I gently explored his sporting interests and he declared himself interested in all team sports. He has been to a few rugby internationals and a couple of Heinken Cup matches over the last few years, and has also been to Croke Park for a some of the bigger GAA matches. Occasional attendances at RoI internationals in the Jack Charlton era, but only twice since then. He also declared himself as "interested" in Man U and has been to UK for matches five times in the last 3 years.

It became clear that he is an "avid consumer" of TV sport and was able to dicuss in detail the Ireland V England rugby match, Dublin V Donegal GAA match and the Man U V Arsenal games all of which he watched this weekend on TV.

He lives in Dublin southside and after I talked up the LoI experience and in particular the good matchday experience and facilities at Tallaght Stadium I softly delivered the punch line question (remember all his superlatives about LoI attraciveness post Rovers Europa League breakthrough) - "would you consider going along to a match in Tallaght Stadium?"

"Naw - it's not really my cup of tea!"

Charlie Darwin

29/08/2011, 11:33 PM

Tell him we have tea too and you only need to cue for about 25 minutes to get it at half time.

Spudulika

30/08/2011, 3:26 AM

Let's face it, we all want a little bit of comfort. Comfort and LOI football (or football in Ireland in general) don't go hand in hand. People will go where there are crowds, so if it's a Junior Championship match in Dunleer where the whole community gets out in force, or some big event like Munster vs All Blacks, it's human nature. I always wonder if there is a disconnect between community and senior football because of the lack of local interest. Or I should say, perceived lack of local interest.

Macy

30/08/2011, 8:05 AM

Let's face it, we all want a little bit of comfort. Comfort and LOI football (or football in Ireland in general) don't go hand in hand.

Accepting your following point about the Irish loving a bandwagon to hop on, I'm not sure the above stands up that well. Especially if the proposition is Tallaght. Facilities is one of the worst excuses ever, imo. It never stopped people travelling to UK football when the grounds were (albeit more atmospheric) dumps.

TiocfaidhArmani

30/08/2011, 9:19 AM

Ezeikial, don't give up on that person. Keep chipping away. Attitudes won't be changed overnight. Person by person is how it'll be done if we're ever to change decades held attitudes.

peadar1987

30/08/2011, 11:15 AM

Ezeikial, don't give up on that person. Keep chipping away. Attitudes won't be changed overnight. Person by person is how it'll be done if we're ever to change decades held attitudes.

Getting someone into the ground the first time is the most important hurdle. If someone goes to a game with a group of Rovers supporters and gets caught up in the atmosphere, they'll be well on the road off the barstool. Of course, this works less well with Bray, as the games I bring people to are inevitably drab losses in the rain to teams from Louth.

Ezeikial

30/08/2011, 1:08 PM

Ezeikial, don't give up on that person. Keep chipping away. Attitudes won't be changed overnight. Person by person is how it'll be done if we're ever to change decades held attitudes.

I take your point - although it's a bigger priority for me to cajole, brow-beat, frog march or otherwise encourage people to Oriel park rather then Tallaght

freewheel30

30/08/2011, 2:50 PM

legendz

30/08/2011, 6:52 PM

Rovers only made the breakthrough last week. It'll take time for their profile to grow on the back of last week. Someone involved in marketing will no more about this but I think at least 6 weeks of good coverage is needed to promote any product, event etc. Rovers will be involved in the Europa League from mid September up until mid December. In that period their profile should grow a whole lot more. The green shoots were set last Thursday. They should grow over the next 3-4 months.

PartySaint

30/08/2011, 6:58 PM

Thought Cenny Kunningham made an interesting point on last night's MNS about how once one club from a country reaches a particular stage / level of European football, chances are a bunch of other clubs from that country will follow. Certainly happened with Cyprus.

I've been thinking about this, Does this mean our Champions will be expected to get into the Europa League group stages from now on?

I said last year that there will be an Irish club in the group stages of a European competition within the next 5 years, I know believe there will be another Irish club in the group stages in the next 5 years

legendz

30/08/2011, 8:03 PM

I've been thinking about this, Does this mean our Champions will be expected to get into the Europa League group stages from now on?

I said last year that there will be an Irish club in the group stages of a European competition within the next 5 years, I know believe there will be another Irish club in the group stages in the next 5 years

I agreed with that call of 5 years as well. I definitely wasn't expecting it this season but within 2-3 years seemed a good possibility. I thought the league was going to have 1 or 2 years of getting to the play-offs consistently but having near misses on the group stage while knocking on the door. Shamrock Rovers blew the door right off it's hinges.

Rovers have lifted the bar. It's a good point in some respects that other clubs could follow. A monkey, planet of the apes even, has been taken off of the league's back.

We need to be cautious as well though. There will be set-backs along the way. This seasons champions could easily suffer defeat in the Champions League Second Qualifier Round next summer and have no Europa League safety net whatsoever. Teams plotting a course from Europa League Qualifier Round 2 have no room for error, having to get though 3 rounds.

peadar1987

30/08/2011, 8:08 PM

I agreed with that call of 5 years as well. I definitely wasn't expecting it this season but within 2-3 years seemed a good possibility. I thought the league was going to have 1 or 2 years of getting to the play-offs consistently but having near misses on the group stage while knocking on the door. Shamrock Rovers blew the door right off it's hinges.

Rovers have lifted the bar. It's a good point in some respects that other clubs could follow. A monkey, planet of the apes even, has been taken off of the league's back.

We need to be cautious as well though. There will be set-backs along the way. This seasons champions could easily suffer defeat in the Champions League Second Qualifier Round next summer and have no Europa League safety net whatsoever. Teams plotting a course from Europa League Qualifier Round 2 have no room for error, having to get though 3 rounds.

Although if Shams can pick up some good results, it could raise the league's coefficient, and mean that Irish teams have to go over fewer hurdles by entering at a later round. I think it's the league's coefficient, and not the team's own coefficient that determines at which round you enter

legendz

31/08/2011, 1:24 PM

Although if Shams can pick up some good results, it could raise the league's coefficient, and mean that Irish teams have to go over fewer hurdles by entering at a later round. I think it's the league's coefficient, and not the team's own coefficient that determines at which round you enter

The best we'll get is into the top 27. This will allow the cup winner, like Sligo this year, start in Qualifier Round 3. Ireland will be 31st for next seasons rankings. 15th is needed for league champions to join CLQ3, 15th is also needed for the cup winner to join ELQ4.

Shannonsider

22/09/2011, 4:40 PM

It has been seen in so many other countries over the years. One club pulls away both on footballing terms and economically after success in Europe. Everybody seems to think that Shamrock Rovers qualification to the Europa League will help the League as a whole but in my opinion it will only help Shamrock Rovers and it will leave the rest of the clubs trying to catch up, therefore leading to greater debt for the chasing clubs. Just a thought. Discuss your opinions.

legendz

22/09/2011, 4:43 PM

This has been discussed before.

http://foot.ie/threads/154560-Does-the-success-of-one-team-in-Europe-benefit-the-league-as-a-whole

Shannonsider

22/09/2011, 4:50 PM

My bad

legendz

22/09/2011, 10:13 PM

No worries. To answer the question, personally I think the likes of Derry and Sligo can do well in the Europa League. Both are well in contention for the league at the moment but if they are in the Europa League, they can look to make the play-off stage at least. Derry picked up a good fee for the McClean sale as well. The only way I can see a side possibly getting a real strong upper hand is by competing in the Champions League group stages. That's where the bigger bucks are earned.

Acornvilla

23/09/2011, 4:43 PM

Yep rovers already held all the aces before making the groups, I don't think it will make much difference unless they can make the groups again next season.

Shannonsider

28/09/2011, 5:00 PM

Yep rovers already held all the aces before making the groups, I don't think it will make much difference unless they can make the groups again next season.

It will certaintly make a difference to Rovers. But as an experience games like this do not help attendances as a whole in the League. For example I often talk about LOI in college with the lads in my course and they turn a blind eye to it. People want to ignore the LOI because it makes them feel less gulity about walking around in their United, Liverpool jerseys etc.. so when Rovers are knocked out of the Europa League and the hype is over, do you thinl these people will began attending games. Not in my opinion? Its a deep lying problem as discussed on here. Maybe it may help Shamrock Rovers financially but hopefully they will progess in Europe without pulling away from the rest of the League both on and off the pitch.

legendz

01/12/2011, 2:07 PM

Are Rovers likely to pull away from Sligo and Derry? I wouldn't be so sure as as mentioned, Derry got good money for McClean. There are other good revenue streams.

I'd rate Rovers getting to the group stages being good for the league but for the league it will have to be consistent and not consigned to being a once off. Rovers have had it tough going but the experience will do them good. If the league can have 1 or 2 clubs in that stage on a regular basis, the league will deserve certain respect for being at a certain level.

Charlie Darwin

01/12/2011, 2:51 PM

Money doesn't have anything to do with it. Unless Rovers start making so much money they can buy better players from abroad, the dynamic's not going to change that much because you can still only have so many players in your squad. If anything, it looks like Rovers, Sligo and Derry are pulling away from Pat's, Bohs and Dundalk.