Does the success of one team in Europe benefit the league as a whole?

[paul_oshea]

Firstly bandwagon jumping is following someone cos there winning,second wasnt suggesting u move there and thankfully I hate basketball .

I know your latter two questions, my point was that I never felt like it was home or any affinity in the 5 years i was there. Therefore I didnt really feel like Bohs was my club. I did like to see them winning and enjoyed it,and keep/kept out for their results, but its pretty much like I do for Man united and always have done. But i don't have that feeling like the club is mine like skstu and all those try to drive home when they are feeling a tad insecure.:D

Sorry about lebron but anyone(and everyone) in cleveland hates him, bball fans or not.

[paul_oshea]

you keep trying to compare the league with something that it is not or that it cannot compete with. The League or the popularity of the league is an anomaly in a global sense. You cant pigeon-hole it into a particular structure that was successful in another location or sport. Anyone close to the League would acknowledge this. Very few Irish sports fans have the patience for a 30 something game league. Short sharp bursts of entertainment are what is required to capture the attention of the ADD sports fans of Ireland. Football League v. All-Ireland. League Football vs. International calendar. Heineken League vs. Magners League.

You are playing the victim here again. YOu act like you are in a complete bubble that no one knows what happens inside of, that is completely removed from anything else in the world. OPen your eyes stu, you appear an articulate and intelligent person so don't try and play off like its any different. Do you think all the munster fans go to ML games? NO they don't they go to the big games against Leinster or the odd bigger game against Cardiff/Llanneli whoever. For years they were getting average attendances of c1000 for home games. Does it matter if they sell out every game? No, it doesn't. Would it matter if every home game sold out for LOI clubs? No it wouldn't. LIke any "product" Irish fans will flock to it if they believe they are seeing top quality sport(IF they go see the likes of Rogers shipping 2 simple goals like tonight they might not be back) or perhaps "entertainment" on their doorstep. Playing against teams who compete in Europe or playing against European teams will provide this. Just like it has in rugby. Now what I would say is from a sustainability or perhaps those that could truly compete - and hope of winning some silverware- would be at most 4/5 clubs every season and probably spread geographically - perhaps Cork/Sligo/Derry/2 from Dublin(at any time id say so it could be 2 of pats/rovers/bohs all teams who already have a decent following) the rest would just be making up the numbers. But geographically you have the base to sustain this at a decent level, assuming European group stages was made every year. Just do the maths on even 8 games a season packed out at home. That in itself would be a very welcome addition to any budget. And that just one side of it - nevermind any commercial sponsorship/add revenue, some tv revenue etc.


I gurantee you this - any benefit that clubs would see from European success of another club would be, at best, incremental and temporary. Any benefit that "the club that makes the breakthrough" will see will be substantial but temporary. The goodwill will end when the particular journey ends and things will revert to norm until the next season. That is the result of success in an Irish context. The result of QUALIFICATION is slightly different but the end result for the Longford Towns etc is going to be pretty much the same - incremental and temporary. "The club that makes the breakthrough" will enjoy a dominance for a long period of time littered with additional qualifications or near misses. The near misses may prove costly in the eyes of the fickle public. Maybe, over time, the rest will catch up but when you look at the history and administration of Irish football i dont see that as a definite.


I don't disagree that to someone like Longford Town is going to have very little effect. I honestly don't think demographically that Longford Town could ever hope to be anything other than a 1st division club, as they are now.

[harleyleeds]

I know your latter two questions, my point was that I never felt like it was home or any affinity in the 5 years i was there. Therefore I didnt really feel like Bohs was my club. I did like to see them winning and enjoyed it,and keep/kept out for their results, but its pretty much like I do for Man united and always have done. But i don't have that feeling like the club is mine like skstu and all those try to drive home when they are feeling a tad insecure.:D

Sorry about lebron but anyone(and everyone) in cleveland hates him, bball fans or not.

yep hes a sellout like the ravens but honestly only basketball fans care.

[Mr A]

On the topic of Rosenborg, yes Shels quoted it, often, however it was the same nonsense spouted by many other clubs in smaller leagues who financially cheated their way forward.

Shels did not cheat. They may have sold out their future and lost their hold on their ground, which was mental, but they did not cheat- it was their decision to make. Since then they've paid their debts and have struggled to recover. Yes, they played a role in the wage inflation that damaged the league and made a lot of awful decisions, but calling them cheats is unfair in my opinion.

[Spudulika]

Mr A, while I understand your version of cheating (same as mine I guess), they did cheat. They cheated the club faithful by pouring money into chasing glory in a haphazard way, without having a firm base and structure underneath. They cheated themselves more than anything else by having zero administration and everything being done by one man and a few hangers on. Ollie cheated by not doing the sensible thing and putting in place a strong administration to ensure that money coming in went where it should and that any extra cash investments were a) honoured, or b) organised.

[BonnieShels]

That's not cheating. It's stupidity but in no way was it cheating.

[Spudulika]

That's not cheating. It's stupidity but in no way was it cheating.

How far removed is cheating from stupidity? I'll make a single athlete comparison. In order to get better an athlete soups up with drugs thinking that "well, everyone else is doing it, why don't I." Is that cheating or being stupid? It's both. Shels (or rather Ollie and his cheerleaders) tried to shortcut their way to success and not do it in a way that would have anything other than a disastrous ending. The cheating was inherent - the old biscuit tin anyone? I saw it first hand and it was sad as while the fans turned out and cheered, underneath the stand there was an ever deepening abyss waiting to swallow the club once Ollie left.

[legendz]

European football can increase the profile of some clubs and also reflect well on the league, enhancing it's stock. Shels are being used as a reference for a successful club that did nothing for the league. Fair play to them for having a good run in the summer of '04. It wasn't a sustained success however, more a one hit wonder.
Someone involved in marketing might be better placed to discuss this but I would think the league would need at least 6 weeks of sustained high coverage to get more people to sit up, take notice and buy into what the league is about. I don't think group stages are on the horizon yet. They are something that could provide the sustained coverage needed. At this present time and for the next one to two years a club or two getting to the play-off stages is the least required.
In terms of having people supporting their local or nearest club, for kids to get behind a club at a young age there'd want to be a club nearby who's games they can go to. I'd imagine the second way if there is not a club in the region is for the game being shown on TV and that interest is taken up that way.

[marinobohs]

Mr A, while I understand your version of cheating (same as mine I guess), they did cheat. They cheated the club faithful by pouring money into chasing glory in a haphazard way, without having a firm base and structure underneath. They cheated themselves more than anything else by having zero administration and everything being done by one man and a few hangers on. Ollie cheated by not doing the sensible thing and putting in place a strong administration to ensure that money coming in went where it should and that any extra cash investments were a) honoured, or b) organised.

Wow ! football team risks all for success - would never happen anywhere else :rolleyes: Shels sold their ground and misused the proceeds, silly probobly, maybe even crazy but not cheating however much certain people want to rant about it.

So,in summary, a team qualifying for the group stages is going to (1) increase TV revenue (2) heighten the profile of the LOI (3) increase transfer fees for players in LOI.
(1) as with much beloved EPL model any increased revenue would gravitate towards one/two teams thus making LOI less competitive. Unlikely to see any tiered approach (as with EPL) here
(2) Would heightening the profile of LOI really generate so much more sponsorship etc ? far from convinced where it would come from in current climate,but again would focus on one/two clubs.
(3) some possibility in this although LOI clubs often sell cheaply because of financial constraints and other factors,none of which would be addressed by one team having success.

Success of Munster rugby was a combination of factors - setting up professional League etc - and certainly not just down to the fact that they were on TV more. Again Shels had a large crowd at Lansdowne (Deportivo) yet a week later were back to the more meagre pickings for a LOI game. Simialrly the Norway "success" (in my very limited knowledge of the subject) was part of a bigger development than just Rosenborg.

[pineapple stu]

There's a difference between cheating the rules and cheating people. Clearly Spud is using the latter meaning, and arguing against the former meaning is a bit silly.

[marinobohs]

There's a difference between cheating the rules and cheating people. Clearly Spud is using the latter meaning, and arguing against the former meaning is a bit silly.

No, he compared Shels action with an athlete taking drugs - one is stupid one is illegal. Stu, try reading the posts before suggesting any reply is silly.

[pineapple stu]

The initial post that people (including you) were commenting on was -


They cheated the club faithful by pouring money into chasing glory
I don't see anything wrong in using that definition of the word "cheat".

I don't agree with the athlete comparison.

[Acornvilla]

granted co-effieicents are useful. But they are useful primarily to one team and thereafter only to approximately one quarter of all the teams in Irish football - the ones that get to play in Europe - in a given five year period. What did Shels success do for Kilkenny City? What will a Rovers success do for Longford Town? Its extremely hard to find any tangible benefit.

Craig walsh and don cowan (and a few others) :D

[A N Mouse]

So when does it become cheating?

Flouting the rules by paying players for secondary roles, they may or may not perform at a club, that's ok.

But blatently having a second contract supercedeing the first official one, that's cheating. Am I close?


No, he compared Shels action with an athlete taking drugs - one is stupid one is illegal. Stu, try reading the posts before suggesting any reply is silly.

Were shels actions illegal? Because an athlete taking drugs is not illegal - sure certain prohibited substances may result in a lifetime ban from the sport if you're caught using - that's cheating by the way.

But I think the point to be taken from the example was that of everyone else is doing it so why can't I.

Also the list of banned substances is subject to change. So in light of the current rules would shels be cheating today?

Back on topic.

I'm all for any loi club progressing to the group stages of a european competition.

I don't think it'll happen this year. While shams are capable of winning next week, there's little hope of them winning by two clear goals. And if they win 1-0 on the night, well we all saw the cup final.

That the chnages last year should mean that from now on it will be a regular occurence for our champions to be similarly positioned to qualify for the el, and it will happen sooner or later.

[peadar1987]

So when does it become cheating?

Flouting the rules by paying players for secondary roles, they may or may not perform at a club, that's ok.

But blatently having a second contract supercedeing the first official one, that's cheating. Am I close?



Were shels actions illegal? Because an athlete taking drugs is not illegal - sure certain prohibited substances may result in a lifetime ban from the sport if you're caught using - that's cheating by the way.

But I think the point to be taken from the example was that of everyone else is doing it so why can't I.

Also the list of banned substances is subject to change. So in light of the current rules would shels be cheating today?

Back on topic.

I'm all for any loi club progressing to the group stages of a european competition.

I don't think it'll happen this year. While shams are capable of winning next week, there's little hope of them winning by two clear goals. And if they win 1-0 on the night, well we all saw the cup final.

That the chnages last year should mean that from now on it will be a regular occurence for our champions to be similarly positioned to qualify for the el, and it will happen sooner or later.


As far as I know, there were no financial regulations like the 65% cap when Shels were spending more than they were taking in. If they spent that much on wages now, it would have to circumvent the 65% cap somehow and therefore be cheating. Back then, it wasn't getting round any rules, so was just stupid. There is actually a slightly vague line though, as Bohs' dodgy dealings a few years back to increase their overall income by moving money to (I think) Albion and back again, and increase the 65% cap without any actual extra income is cheating in my book.

[BonnieShels]

Good thing the book was thrown at them in that case.

[legendz]

Is The Star accurate with their figure of €3.6m for Rovers if they get through to the play-off round?

[peadar1987]

Good thing the book was thrown at them in that case.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_GaaU_fgN89Y/TGHPPQ9AQ0I/AAAAAAAAAEA/FU17VahT5gQ/s1600/throwing+book.jpg

The view out Nutsy's window when the story broke.

[BonnieShels]

Groundhog day for nutsy.

[Spudulika]

Let me support PS while also supporting what I pretty clearly said - they were cheating the people following the club, cheating the club itself. Ollie and well, Ollie, did some dreadful things (lots of other clubs can row in there I know) and while skimming on tickets or borrowing massive amounts on future possible income might not be archetypal cheating, though it easily falls into the category of cheating those who believe that their club is going the right way about things.

The athlete analogy is to say whether this can be deemed cheating or stupid when others are doing the same thing. Was Ben Johnson cheating or unlucky in that he was caught in 1988, especially when 3 of the first 4 were also caught, and 7 of the 8 finallists were done for doping at one time or another? Did they do it to cheat or keep up with the rest, or were they just stupid and ill informed? Shels could have built in a more sustainable way but decided to speed things up by using their own form of steroids, as in 1988, the fans were cheated from seeing an honest spectacle.

If a LOI team were to make the group stage of the EL or CL, it would boost football as a whole in Ireland, though only for as long as they lasted and as long as the FAI got off their rearends to do something, which means nothing will happen. BATE Borisov turned around from being beaten by Bohs to being a group stage club and winning matches there, but the Belarus league hasn't lifted itself. In a parallel way the Cypriot league has improved itself by building from the ground up and engaging wealthy locals (as well as russkis who want to avoid/evade/plan taxes).

[Charlie Darwin]

Is The Star accurate with their figure of €3.6m for Rovers if they get through to the play-off round?
Clubs that make the group stages of the Europa League can expect to make 2-3 million.

I think it's interesting that in a thread primarily about money, you're the first person to bring up an actual figure.

[maksimir]

Clubs that make the group stages of the Europa League can expect to make 2-3 million.

I think it's interesting that in a thread primarily about money, you're the first person to bring up an actual figure.

I believe (roughish figures) these are pretty close:

640,000 for the group stages (set fee) +
60,000 bonus per game +
140,000 per group match win +
70,000 per group match draw
etc.

So if an Irish side got to the group stages and had six games and won 1, drew 2 and lost 3 they'd roughly get 1.28 million from UEFA alone? Even with gate receipts sponser bonuses and TV money it would be pushing the 3.6 million figure. Now if they moved their home games to the Aviva then this may reach the figure and drawing a German team helps - they're TV companies are famous for throwing money at teams so they switch to 5 pm kick-offs, etc.

[peadar1987]

This is from a very tenuous unreliable source (Championship Manager), but in a European game, are the gate receipts split 50:50 between the two teams, or does the home team get it all? Was this ever the case outside my computer?!

[redrevival]

This is from a very tenuous unreliable source (Championship Manager), but in a European game, are the gate receipts split 50:50 between the two teams, or does the home team get it all? Was this ever the case outside my computer?!

Home team keep the gate receipts.

[WexCar]

Is The Star accurate with their figure of €3.6m for Rovers if they get through to the play-off round?

This may help clarify (http://www.uefa.com/uefachampionsleague/season=2012/finance/index.html)

At end of article: (these are figures for last season)

Some €55m was allocated exclusively to the UEFA Champions League play-off round, meaning each of the 20 sides participating in the play-offs earned a fixed amount of €2.1m.

[DannyInvincible]

This is from a very tenuous unreliable source (Championship Manager), but in a European game, are the gate receipts split 50:50 between the two teams, or does the home team get it all? Was this ever the case outside my computer?!

I'm not sure. Hold on 'til I check my copy of Football Manager 2011 for confrimation...

[marinobohs]

Let me support PS while also supporting what I pretty clearly said - they were cheating the people following the club, cheating the club itself. Ollie and well, Ollie, did some dreadful things (lots of other clubs can row in there I know) and while skimming on tickets or borrowing massive amounts on future possible income might not be archetypal cheating, though it easily falls into the category of cheating those who believe that their club is going the right way about things.

The athlete analogy is to say whether this can be deemed cheating or stupid when others are doing the same thing. Was Ben Johnson cheating or unlucky in that he was caught in 1988, especially when 3 of the first 4 were also caught, and 7 of the 8 finallists were done for doping at one time or another? Did they do it to cheat or keep up with the rest, or were they just stupid and ill informed? Shels could have built in a more sustainable way but decided to speed things up by using their own form of steroids, as in 1988, the fans were cheated from seeing an honest spectacle.

If a LOI team were to make the group stage of the EL or CL, it would boost football as a whole in Ireland, though only for as long as they lasted and as long as the FAI got off their rearends to do something, which means nothing will happen. BATE Borisov turned around from being beaten by Bohs to being a group stage club and winning matches there, but the Belarus league hasn't lifted itself. In a parallel way the Cypriot league has improved itself by building from the ground up and engaging wealthy locals (as well as russkis who want to avoid/evade/plan taxes).

Fine RE shels-although it was not cheating as most here define it - no rules were broken by Shels. Totally disagree RE athletics thing (and appears to contradict above clarification). What Ben Johnsn did was cheating - he broke the rules of the sport. What Shels did was stupid - no rules broken. Incidentally, issue for another day but what Ollie Byrne was doing was hardly a state secret (even if extent of it was) but dont recall any opposition from Shels fans
So an Irish club qualifying for group stages would boost football here but as (in your opinion) FAI wont get off rearends it wont boost football here ?

[Spudulika]

Fine RE shels-although it was not cheating as most here define it - no rules were broken by Shels. Totally disagree RE athletics thing (and appears to contradict above clarification). What Ben Johnsn did was cheating - he broke the rules of the sport. What Shels did was stupid - no rules broken. Incidentally, issue for another day but what Ollie Byrne was doing was hardly a state secret (even if extent of it was) but dont recall any opposition from Shels fans
So an Irish club qualifying for group stages would boost football here but as (in your opinion) FAI wont get off rearends it wont boost football here ?

I didn't want to be very obvious about Ollie's biscuit tin, I never would have believed it until I saw it first hand the day before the KR game and then before the Hajduk one. I know there is a long history of this in sports (Mill Street was famous for this), though most businesses will try to hive off some petty cash for varios types of payments.

The athletics comparison came from a conversation I had with someone a few years back in regards to "steroid finance" and how he saw it happening in Ireland from top to bottom. A sort of get rich quick process with long lasting and possibly fatal consequences. Financial doping goes on all the time, keeping up with the Joneses is part and parcel of humanity. Clubs do it and those who tried to compete with Shels suffered as a result. Though as you rightly point out, there weren't too many voices of discontent when all was well, this goes down to the control the man himself held.

A club getting into a group of the EL or CL would boost football in Ireland, but it won't last unless the FAI and LOI sustain it. As with Shels back in 2004, full house for the match with Hajduk and then a few days later a tough match with Derry and less than a thousand (if I remember rightly). We've all discussed this on numerous threads, it isn't just one obstacle that will kill the momentum, though a bit of leadership will go a long way.

[Dodge]

As with Shels back in 2004, full house for the match with Hajduk and then a few days later a tough match with Derry and less than a thousand (if I remember rightly)

Nowhere near a full house for the Hajduk game. You might be thinking of the crowd that went to Lansdowne to see Deportivo. The principle remains, of course.

ROvers making group stages will boost them, and make it harder for Pats to compete with them for sponsors, players and fans. For that reason, I have to hope for a Copenhagen win tonight.

For the record the following teams have been one game away from UEFA/Europa group stages; Shels (v Lille) in 2004, Cork (v Slavia Prague) in 2005, Derry (v PSG) in 2006, Pats (v Hertha Berlin & Steau Bucharest) in 2008 & 2009. So the 'breakthrough' has been coming.

[Spudulika]

Over 9,000 tickets were sold for the Hajduk game, that would push it close to a full house, but you're right it's not a full house. Lansdowne was a revelation, though you're right, the follow on for the league wasn't there.

[A N Mouse]

Fine RE shels-although it was not cheating as most here define it - no rules were broken by Shels. Totally disagree RE athletics thing (and appears to contradict above clarification). What Ben Johnsn did was cheating - he broke the rules of the sport. What Shels did was stupid - no rules broken. Incidentally, issue for another day but what Ollie Byrne was doing was hardly a state secret (even if extent of it was) but dont recall any opposition from Shels fans
So an Irish club qualifying for group stages would boost football here but as (in your opinion) FAI wont get off rearends it wont boost football here ?

It hasn't been mention above but, I believe, it's generally accepted that you can break the rules in deed or in spirit.

A lot of these financial shenanigans most definitely fall into the latter category - Man City's stadium naming right are a great example of this. So while they aren't cheating in terms of actually breaking any rules, they are cheating by gaming the system in their favour. Usually the door gets closed on these loopholes. (As an aside I think fifa have actually punished teams for, on field, breaking the spirit of the game/rules)

While an Irish team qualifying for the group stages of a uefa competition would, financially, throw the cat among the pigeons. Without using the money wisely it would likely result in another shels scenario, as they would need to repeatedly qualify in order for any kind of major increase in spending to be sustainable. And the ranking should be affected in such a way as to make it easier for other teams to emulate the success.

[redarmyfaction]

The Danish Superliga increased its average attendance from just under 4000 in 2001 now to over 8000 now, FCK dominted the intervening years winning I think 7 from 10 and competing at a top level inEurope. So it is possible, if you have football fans, which I think we may not.

[Dodge]

The Danish Superliga increased its average attendance from just under 4000 in 2001 now to over 8000 now, FCK dominted the intervening years winning I think 7 from 10 and competing at a top level inEurope. So it is possible, if you have football fans, which I think we may not.

Whats the average without FCK? I think their average is about 20k.

[Oldred]

The Danish Superliga increased its average attendance from just under 4000 in 2001 now to over 8000 now, FCK dominted the intervening years winning I think 7 from 10 and competing at a top level inEurope. So it is possible, if you have football fans, which I think we may not.
The Danish FA do'nt have to compete with a "GAA like" organisation for crowds. So, you're probably right that we just do'nt have the numbers, except maybe in Dublin.

[legendz]

The Danish FA surely have other sports to compete with. Is olympic handball a major game over there? European football is not the cure for all the ills of the league but it is certainly good for the league. If both Rovers gain a higher profile from their European football, it should have some knock on affect that their away games would draw bigger crowds for the home team. That in turn gives the home team a chance to work on growing their support. If either of the Rovers were playing a game within my region, I'd definitely want to be going. What was the attendance at the Rovers game tonight? I'm guessing about 6000? If the Premier could ever get an average attendance in and around that figure it would be decent progress for the league.

[pineapple stu]

The Danish FA do'nt have to compete with a "GAA like" organisation for crowds. So, you're probably right that we just do'nt have the numbers, except maybe in Dublin.
The handball final (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parken_Stadium#Notable_matches) drew a crowd of 36000+ just this year.


Whats the average without FCK? I think their average is about 20k.
Attendance stats here (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm) for 2011 and here for 2001 (http://www.european-football-statistics.co.uk/attn.htm). The actual average crowd increase is from just under 6000 to just over 7000 (though this year is the lowest since 2002, partly because Aarhus got relegated).

[Spudulika]

Maybe we're talking about apples and oranges here in terms of crowds. Anybody been to a Danish ground? Those who have will comment that they're rather more attractive that what we have in Ireland.

[Dodge]

Well its a chicken and egg situation. IF LOI clubs were averaging 4k per game, I'm sure we could quickly develop our facilities to help drive further growth

But we're not, and we've sod all investment from TV and sponsors (unlike the danes), so we're left scraping around

[Eminence Grise]

To answer the OP: in my opinion, no.

Until every club in the league can go for three consecutive seasons without threatening financial meltdown and at least breaking even, I’m sceptical that there are enough people with the money smarts to help a club dominate. Like a kid in a sweetshop, too many clubs have a track record of impulse spending that ends up in tears and needing strong, nasty-tasting medicine.

The temptation would be to invest in players to qualify again next year (if 42 week contracts can actually be called an investment, but that’s a debate for another day...). Eventually – injuries, form, new manager, etc - that stops working. Patient, sensible building from the ground-up– youth teams, ground improvements, fan facilities, training facilities, investment in revenue streams (they don’t even have to be football-related) – seems to be the exception rather than the norm.

I’d like to think that a team in the EL or CL group stages would attract better players, but just as likely is that the kind of players needed to raise the league would still prefer to go to similarly ranked leagues where the facilities are better and all/most clubs are fulltime, so the only result would be that the best players already in the league would be hoovered up by the breakthrough club on inflated wages, and the madness of the last few years would begin again.

[punkrocket]

....partly because Aarhus got relegated).

Madness.

[Mr A]

In the middle of our street.

[Mario]

Whats the average without FCK? I think their average is about 20k.

Current league average ~ 8000

12 team league so total attendences = 12 * 8000 = 96000

Suppose FCK get 20000 average so 96000 - 20000 = 76000

Wikipedia saying Brondy get 16000 average

So 76000 - 16000 = 60000

60000 / 10 = 6000 is average gate minus big two clubs

Suppose take Rovers and Derry, Sligo or Pats out of Premier Division and I doubt the average here is barely 1000.

So your average Danish team get maybe 6 times ish the average LOI gate!!!

[BonnieShels]

In the middle of our street.

Damn. You.

[harleyleeds]

Current league average ~ 8000

12 team league so total attendences = 12 * 8000 = 96000

Suppose FCK get 20000 average so 96000 - 20000 = 76000

Wikipedia saying Brondy get 16000 average

So 76000 - 16000 = 60000

60000 / 10 = 6000 is average gate minus big two clubs

Suppose take Rovers and Derry, Sligo or Pats out of Premier Division and I doubt the average here is barely 1000.

So your average Danish team get maybe 6 times ish the average LOI gate!!!


Twice the population density as well . so 3 times. and no GAA , dont see handball as a fair comparison. Closer urban areas make better rivalries unlike ROI with teams like Rovers so far away from all others.

[nigel-harps1954]

Twice the population density as well . so 3 times. and no GAA , dont see handball as a fair comparison. Closer urban areas make better rivalries unlike ROI with teams like Rovers so far away from all others.

Why don't you see handball as a fair comparison?

Off topic I know, but had a few die hard EPL fans who couldn't give a feck about LOI ask me about the match last night and how they enjoyed it. "Sure there was a difference in class but it was a good game" and suchlike. Almost refreshing to hear from the same fans who scoff at me watching Harps week in week out which was strange for me.

[harleyleeds]

Why don't you see handball as a fair comparison?

Off topic I know, but had a few die hard EPL fans who couldn't give a feck about LOI ask me about the match last night and how they enjoyed it. "Sure there was a difference in class but it was a good game" and suchlike. Almost refreshing to hear from the same fans who scoff at me watching Harps week in week out which was strange for me.


looking at a few things about it and numbers didnt seem to compare but of course i could be wrong

As a sport with about 120,000 active players handball is the 4th most popular sport in Denmark and the Danish Handball Association as we know it today was founded on 2 June 1935 and will celebrate its 75th birthday just before the Euro 2010.

[Dodge]

So your average Danish team get maybe 6 times ish the average LOI gate!!!

For the record I was asking as I was curious. I've been to football in Denmark. no doubt at all, their League is a priority there

[nigel-harps1954]

looking at a few things about it and numbers didnt seem to compare but of course i could be wrong

As a sport with about 120,000 active players handball is the 4th most popular sport in Denmark and the Danish Handball Association as we know it today was founded on 2 June 1935 and will celebrate its 75th birthday just before the Euro 2010.

There isn't exactly overwhelming numbers attending inter-county GAA games anymore. Donegal v Kildare had 39,000 at it and outside of Dublin was one of the highest attended games this year. Given this was an All-Ireland quarter final you may have expected a lot more in the ground.
I think its a very fair comparison between Handball in Denmark and GAA in Ireland.
If you asked the Irish public, football would most definitely be the most popular sport too, yet the average attendance of the national league must be no more than 1500-2000 between the 2 divisions.

[DannyInvincible]

Thought this might be somewhat relevant: http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/14402785.stm

The SPL's chief executive, Neil Doncaster, is basically outlining why Rangers' dropping out of the Champions League will affect not just that club financially, but the whole SPL.


It has cost them a guaranteed £8m in prizemoney plus TV revenue.

"It's a huge disappointment for Rangers fans but also has an impact on the whole of the SPL," said Doncaster.

...

There is also the loss of match-day revenue, but it is from television income that the greatest loss from not qualifying for the Champions League is felt.

A large part of the distributed revenue from the Champions League is linked to the "market pool", the distribution of which is determined by the value of the television market in each country which for British clubs is high.

"With a team in the group stages of the Champions League, that means much larger solidarity payments from Uefa for all our clubs," chief executive Doncaster told BBC Radio 5 live.

"With Rangers going into the play-offs for the Europa League, that means much smaller payments for our clubs."


Despite there being no Scottish team in the group stage of the Champions League for the first time since 2002-03, Doncaster defended the quality of the SPL.

"We've got players like David Goodwillie who has just gone to Blackburn for a multi-million pound sum," he said.

"And we've certainly got a very good representation of managers south of the border."

Interesting way to big up the SPL. Times are certainly desperate.

[legendz]

Well its a chicken and egg situation. IF LOI clubs were averaging 4k per game, I'm sure we could quickly develop our facilities to help drive further growth

But we're not, and we've sod all investment from TV and sponsors (unlike the danes), so we're left scraping around

It's chicken and egg alright. 4k should be attainable for a good number of clubs. Leaving out UCD, the four Dublin clubs, Derry, Sligo and three Munster clubs should see that as an attainable. Not easy in practice I know but I don't think it's an unrealistic target. If all goes well for Limerick with the return to their spiritual home it's an achievable target.