Giles calls for artificial pitches in LOI

[LOI_Fanatic]

honestly wouldnt like to see astro/3g pitches in LOI grounds,takes away from the real football for me!

the "fake" surface may look better,but i think they'd cause more injuries and any profit gained from people renting the pitch would be spent on the extra medical care for players!

[nigel-harps1954]

I feckin hate the astro pitches myself.
Used to go to the college in Athlone IT where they have one of these super amazing astro pitches.
Playing as a goalkeeper on one of those is a horrible experience. It just doesn't feel right and is sore as feck to dive on. It's too solid, sore on the back of your legs if you aren't used to it, and kicking a ball off it just isn't the same as regular grass.
I'm all for improving the state of pitches, but Astro or any other artificial surface is most certainly not the answer.

[Ezeikial]

honestly wouldnt like to see astro/3g pitches in LOI grounds,takes away from the real football for me!

the "fake" surface may look better,but i think they'd cause more injuries and any profit gained from people renting the pitch would be spent on the extra medical care for players!


I feckin hate the astro pitches myself.
Used to go to the college in Athlone IT where they have one of these super amazing astro pitches.
Playing as a goalkeeper on one of those is a horrible experience. It just doesn't feel right and is sore as feck to dive on. It's too solid, sore on the back of your legs if you aren't used to it, and kicking a ball off it just isn't the same as regular grass.
I'm all for improving the state of pitches, but Astro or any other artificial surface is most certainly not the answer.

Thanks guys, I think I got it now

Astro = non grass
3G = non grass

therefore Astro = 3G ???????

[redobit]

I feckin hate the astro pitches myself.
Used to go to the college in Athlone IT where they have one of these super amazing astro pitches.
Playing as a goalkeeper on one of those is a horrible experience. It just doesn't feel right and is sore as feck to dive on. It's too solid, sore on the back of your legs if you aren't used to it, and kicking a ball off it just isn't the same as regular grass.
I'm all for improving the state of pitches, but Astro or any other artificial surface is most certainly not the answer.

Ya 100% agree. I have played on a lot of them and use the fake one about twice a week at the moment. Its heavy going on the joints and I left a load of skin on it on day after going for my first and last sliding tackle. Seen a guy bang his head on the ground before too, it wasnt much of a bang but he was knocked out cold. Too solid as nigekl has said and not enough give in them.

Bit like a pair of fake titties really. They may look the business and have a nice shape but when you get down to it, it just not the same.

[passerrby]

Ya 100% agree. I have played on a lot of them and use the fake one about twice a week at the moment. Its heavy going on the joints and I left a load of skin on it on day after going for my first and last sliding tackle. Seen a guy bang his head on the ground before too, it wasnt much of a bang but he was knocked out cold. Too solid as nigekl has said and not enough give in them.

Bit like a pair of fake titties really. They may look the business and have a nice shape but when you get down to it, it just not the same.

your anology is all wrong if you "get down to it" your in tha wrong area completely thats astro turt area

[Spudulika]

1. 3G do not cause more injuries than natural grass (neither do astroturf - it's normally burns and grazes like the horrible old ones next to the UCD sports centre). However there is a higher risk of injury for players moving from one type of surface to the next without proper adjustment, I've seen that regularly in countries where 3G and grass co-exist. Knee and ankle injuries are common.
2. It is possible to do more than 8 hours on a 3G pitch, plus to accommodate other sports. In Oriel the club allowed the county hurlers use it when Dowdallshill was out of bounds.
3. When you use the proper 3G surface on a regular basis it's a dream to play on, you have less odd bounces of the ball, less impact injuries and the downside is if it's not watered properly then it can play more difficult.

I believe there is a UEFA scheme in place to co-fund the installation of 3G pitches for clubs. I saw this happen in Croatia, Malta and Russia, so surely Irish clubs, via the FAI, can go for it if it helps revenue and consistency?

[Mr A]

The thing that really attracts me to the idea of a 3G pitch is the idea is that instead of having people in your stadium once a fortnight or thereabouts they'll be in there every day. It's a great way to have your ground at the heart of the community, especially since you can host a lot more local finals etc than you would otherwise be able to.

[Nesta99]

Very important intangible benefit Mr A. It is great to see Oriel a hive of activity most nights of the week, often a first time at the ground for some. Add in the YDC and its increasing role in the town (eg if it wasnt for another event the recent election count for Louth would have been held in Oriel Park) well we kinda have taken the Mountain to Mohammmed!

[passerrby]

very true mr A gortakeegan full most evenings with inderage and Junior games great to see it at the heart of the community while i have my doubts about revenue generating on a pitch used for LOI the worth to the community is very positive.

[Ezeikial]

The thing that really attracts me to the idea of a 3G pitch is the idea is that instead of having people in your stadium once a fortnight or thereabouts they'll be in there every day. It's a great way to have your ground at the heart of the community, especially since you can host a lot more local finals etc than you would otherwise be able to.

Last year there were 25 first team games in Oriel Park.

I don't know the exact numbers but because of the 3G pitch Oriel Park hosted matches on about 350 days.

[juan]

Thanks guys, I think I got it now

Astro = non grass
3G = non grass

therefore Astro = 3G ???????
Whats the signal strength like in the more remote areas though?

[Ezeikial]

It appears that Crusaders are sufficiently happy about their 3G pitch that they want to incorporate the same again into their new proposed ground development:



The Crues are also smiling off the pitch as the £61million cash injection for local football from government moves them a step closer to realising their dream of a new stadium with Newington YC.
A club statement read: “Crusaders and Newington are pressing ahead with our ambitious Sports, Educational and Media Village.
“We were pleased that the project is within the Minister's thinking and anticipate a measure of government support towards the end of the 2011-15 budgetary spending round. Currently we are preparing a bid to the Belfast City Council public ‘Expression of Interest’ call, with a deadline of March 24.
“This is an open, competitive process and our two clubs, along with our design team and financial backers will submit a strong bid, focussing on economic viability, employment, state of the art leisure facilities and, most importantly, cross-community shared space.
“We intend that our bid will provide a ‘wow’ factor for north Belfast and the city as a whole. Thereafter, the council will deliberate on who to chose as a lead developer. In addition to the stadium and sports business park, the bid will propose a public ice-rink, an indoor arena hosting pro-basketball and a full size, 3G, GAA pitch, as well as an international standard training suite.
“This project has been a long time in gestation, but we're at the ‘business end’ now and expect to have the opportunity to ‘raise the bar’ in terms of the quality of facilities to be provided.”
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/local/crusaders-5-cliftonville-0-15120326.html#ixzz1HSKWMmk2



A stg£61 million cash injection from government? We should apply to rejoin the UK straight away!!

[Mr_Parker]

Crusaders initialintention was to lift the turf and take it with them. Their stadium scheme has fallen behind by at least a year so I'm not sure if that is still their intention.

[jinxy lilywhite]

To be honest and for the attention of the the nay sayers of the artificial/astroturf/3G the reality is that surfaces like ours opens OP at time when it was never before available and the revenue streams is of a great benefit to the clubs. No club in the land is cash rich or even asset rich that they can look down their noses at this surface and say that on principle that could do without the extra revenue stream.
In regards to payback I think before you do that you need to look at the purchase and installation of the surface only. and for the primary costs of clearing, adding in the kerbing, the tarmac thingy, installing the surround on a longer term as these will not need to be replaced when you need to replace the surface so you can factor in this cost over a longer period of time (10 yrs)
Also in that time you can move the old surface to another location (as we will be putting our old surface into the YDC, this is open to correction) so we'll soon be able to utilise two pitches.
Also we need to factor in the non finacial aspects of it and the promotion is does of the club to the north east area. every one of us who plays football relishes playing on the oriel surface and the effects on the body, injurywise are non existent compared to the cabbage patches i played on when i limped off with twistes ankles or shin splints

[Guinney]

The Crues are also smiling off the pitch as the £61million cash injection for local football from government moves them a step closer to realising their dream of a new stadium with Newington YC.
Thats some cash injection if true.

[peadar1987]

So what happens to a 3G pitch when it deteriorates? If it doesn't become unsafe, and the cost wasn't too high, it could build a lot of goodwill in the community if it was donated or sold to a local club or youth group. Alternatively, it could be lifted and used as a training pitch and revenue generator. I have no idea about the practicality of moving an already-laid 3G pitch though.

[Dunny]

Another IL club: http://www.carrickrangers.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=205

[Macy]

To be honest and for the attention of the the nay sayers of the artificial/astroturf/3G the reality is that surfaces like ours opens OP at time when it was never before available and the revenue streams is of a great benefit to the clubs. No club in the land is cash rich or even asset rich that they can look down their noses at this surface and say that on principle that could do without the extra revenue stream.
I definately wouldn't be a naysayer, however you can't transpose those revenue streams to every club. I'm not sure Longford would have the population base for it to get the revenue that ye have for example. A few other "rural" clubs would be the same. It has to be an individual club decision based on a realistic cost benefit analysis.

That'd all be before you get into how clubs are going to fund it in the first place - you might not have noticed but the banks are fecked, and they'll hardly see a LoI club as a good credit risk! Won't be too much Government funding either. The FAI aren't going to put money to anywhere except filling the advantage club black hole for the foreseeable, so it'd probably come down to the international organisations as mentioned previously.

[pineapple stu]

And given Longford have 3G (?) 5-a-side pitches beside the ground, would there be a need to make the main pitch 3G too?

Same could apply for Monaghan.

[Macy]

And given Longford have 3G (?) 5-a-side pitches beside the ground, would there be a need to make the main pitch 3G too?

Good old astro, none of this fancy crap!

[Nesta99]

So what happens to a 3G pitch when it deteriorates? If it doesn't become unsafe, and the cost wasn't too high, it could build a lot of goodwill in the community if it was donated or sold to a local club or youth group. Alternatively, it could be lifted and used as a training pitch and revenue generator. I have no idea about the practicality of moving an already-laid 3G pitch though.

The majority cost of laying the pitch i'd imagine are the ground works and foundation layers as Jinxy mentioned. When the pitch in Oriel was relayed it was only the surface layer that replaced. The surface layer itself wouldnt be much use on its own. If a local club wanted to save on a pitch installation they could maybe use a second hand surface layer but the foundation work would still be needed. The savings as such wouldn't be huge in the overall costs. In saying that we will be using our old surface in the YDC, i will actually be very interested in how it will be installed and how it will subsequently play as i doubt you will have the extensive sub layers as you do with the main pitch.

[Ezeikial]

I definately wouldn't be a naysayer, however you can't transpose those revenue streams to every club. I'm not sure Longford would have the population base for it to get the revenue that ye have for example. A few other "rural" clubs would be the same. It has to be an individual club decision based on a realistic cost benefit analysis.


To be fair, I don't think anyone here (or J Giles) suggested for a moment that this would work for every club.

I imagine the "naysayers" that Jinxy Lilywhite referred to are those who refuse to understand the basic differences between Astro and 3G or the Flat Earth folk whose thinking operates on the closed mind idea that if it is not a grass pitch its no good

[peadar1987]

To be fair, I don't think anyone here (or J Giles) suggested for a moment that this would work for every club.

I imagine the "naysayers" that Jinxy Lilywhite referred to are those who refuse to understand the basic differences between Astro and 3G or the Flat Earth folk whose thinking operates on the closed mind idea that if it is not a grass pitch its no good

And ironically, many of those grass pitches are anything but flat earth!

[Réiteoir]

Another IL club: http://www.carrickrangers.co.uk/newsdetail.aspx?id=205

The make up of stadia in the top two divisions in Norway:



Aalesund - Color Line Stadion - Artificial
SK Brann - Brann Stadion - Natural
Fredrikstad - Fredrikstad Stadion - Natural
FK Haugesund - Haugesund stadion - Natural
Lillestrøm SK - Åråsen stadion - Natural
Molde FK - Aker Stadion - Natural
Odd Grenland - Skagerak Arena - Artificial
Rosenborg BK - Lerkendal stadion - Natural
Sarpsborg 08 - Sarpsborg Stadion - Artificial
Sogndal - Fosshaugane Campus - Natural
Stabæk - Telenor Arena - Artificial
IK Start - Sør Arena - Natural
Strømsgodset - Marienlyst Stadion - Artificial
Tromsø IL - Alfheim Stadion - Artificial
Viking FK - Viking Stadion - Natural
Vålerenga Fotball - Ullevaal Stadion - Natural

Alta - Finnmarkshallen - Artificial
Asker Fotball - Føyka Stadion - Artificial
Bodø/Glimt - Aspmyra Stadion - Artificial
Bryne - Bryne Stadion - Natural
HamKam - Briskeby Arena - Natural
Hødd - Høddvoll Stadion - Natural
Hønefoss - AKA Arena - Artificial
Kongsvinger - Gjemselund Stadion - Artificial
Løv-Ham - Varden Amfi - Artificial
Mjøndalen - Nedre Eiker Stadion - Natural
Nybergsund-Trysil - Nybergsund Stadion - Artificial
Randaberg - Randaberg Stadion - Artificial
Ranheim - DnB NOR Arena - Natural
Sandefjord - Komplett.no Arena - Natural
Sandnes Ulf - Sandnes Idrettspark - Natural
Strømmen - Strømmen Stadion - Artificial

[pineapple stu]

Norway's probably a bit different given the likes of Alta play indoors, and others are very far north (Tromso inside the Arctic Circle for example), meaning grass pitches are a practical problem as much as anything else. Not really the case here.

[peadar1987]

Norway's probably a bit different given the likes of Alta play indoors, and others are very far north (Tromso inside the Arctic Circle for example), meaning grass pitches are a practical problem as much as anything else. Not really the case here.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't Ballybofey also inside the Arctic circle?

[pineapple stu]

That's Bray you're thinking of.

[passerrby]

And given Longford have 3G (?) 5-a-side pitches beside the ground, would there be a need to make the main pitch 3G too?

Same could apply for Monaghan.
the mons have fours astro courts for 5 a side plus a full size 3g floodlight pich for rental and community programmes both are used seven days a week

[Dodge]

It's no wonder Roddy went there

[Jofspring]

Limerick will be playing their first A league game of this season on an articfical surface.

Sean Choill (http://www.seanchoill.com/spec.html)

I know the club have used this for training already and I think the underage teams are using it too. Will be interesting to see how they get on on the pitch because I think it is different from the 3G pitches. Have played on it before myself and its a great surface to play on.

[KevB76]

Limerick will be playing their first A league game of this season on an articfical surface.

Sean Choill (http://www.seanchoill.com/spec.html)



They'll be playing on the new grass pitch just above the astro.

[Macy]

They'll be playing on the new grass pitch just above the astro.
Is that a 4G?

[KevB76]

Is that a 4G?

its the future : )

[colonelwest]

Purely looking at the financial aspects of the 3g pitch in Oriel with regard to income generated, barring times that the squad are training and playing on weekdays, it's being used constantly from 6pm to 11pm and then Saturday and Sundays all afternoon and evening for the mostpart. The local winter league uses it for the majority of their games and some of the summer league teams use it too, thats not even including general kickabouts, junior district league games/ finals etc etc. €220 for a full 90 min match/ 2 hours booking conservatively works out at least 3 or 4k a week and thats 52 weeks of the year. We even have a few community events over the summer every year on it. Of course there'll be times when it's not completely booked up or being used but the financial benefits are absolutely worth it for the initial outlay in the medium to long term. It's benefit to turning the financial situation the club was in is woefully underestimated for those looking from the outside in.

With regard to the inspections, we had to relay it a few years back for the reasons already mentioned and in January last year it passed the league licencing, then in May/ June the Uefa for the Euro games and again this January for the league with absolutely no issues whatsoever. A lot of the reticence from people is pretty much ignorance of the facts, memories of the old style 80s ones or experience of JJB/ Astropark/ Sportslink ones which are of a far less standard and basically astroturf lolz sort of stuff. Anyone who has any misgivings on it if you can get up and play a game on it in Oriel you'd realise though it may be a wee bit hard on the feet and legs to get used to initially it'd change your perception of it entirely.