Seems Lizzy's on the way...

[old git]

There's a difference between grovelling and respect. The way those muppets go on, you'd think Liz herself invaded the country just yesterday and raped the natives one by one. It's just ridiculous in this day and age. Move on for god's sake, there are more important things to be protesting and worrying about. The country is in ruins, we could do worse than have a few british tourists over peope are entitled to their views no matter how much you disagree .. alot of people out their could not care about lizzy coming over .. the country is in ruins and we the taxpayers will be also be picking up the bill for her visit ... oh yes on respect what has she done for ireland to earn our respect .

[dahamsta]

People are certainly entitled to their opinions. As am I.

Since the visit hasn't even been agreed yet, you have no idea who'll be paying for it. I'd be very surprised if the costs weren't shared. I'd also be very surprised if the resulting tourism wouldn't cover a multiple of any costs to Ireland.

And respect is an individual thing. I wouldn't be a huge fan of monarchies on health grounds alone, but I have a lot of respect for Elizabeth. She'd kick your ass for a start. :)

[Red Army]

Why do you respect her hamsta? If people want to protest let them they have every right too I don't see why your getting your knickers in a knot

[Eminence Grise]

You just know a thread has taken a wrong turn when Newton Emerson makes more sense...

"Armoury of facts a perfect defence against anti-queen whingers"

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0309/1224291667802.html

My favourite line:
7. Her real name is Elizabeth Saxe-Coburg Gotha
Is anyone in Ireland seriously going to sneer about being ruled by Germans? Seriously?

[dahamsta]

Why do you respect her hamsta?

I think she's a strong, independent woman (bursts into song (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destiny%27s_Child)) that doesn't take crap from anyone. She also seems like quite a nice lady, someone I'd like to meet and talk to. I'd like to meet Charles too, isn't that awful?

Now it's your turn, what exactly did she do that makes you so keen to keep her out of the country?


If people want to protest let them they have every right tooThey do, and again, I have a right to think they're idiots. You're not really getting this whole free speech thing are you?

Thanks for that EG, this line tickled me:


Not exactly. Policing the protesters will cost a fortune. Policing the queen is completely unnecessary, while policing Prince Philip can usually be left to the queen.

[Red Army]

Never said I want to keep her out of the country. Did I? Personally I don't really care about it. Given the history of this country it's only natural some will still oppose her visit. Do I think they are idiots? Of course not but why is it when you don't agree with someone they automatically become idiots?
As for her been independent? I don't know would the average British tax payer agree with you on that one.

[dahamsta]

They're idiots because they're talking about protesting something as inane as this, when they should be protesting about something important. The rape of this country by the banks, for example, or the other bunch of idiots we've just gotten rid of. The closest they can come to that is this idiocy (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0225/harneym.html). Hence, idiots. They're a bunch of spastics.

And on independence, 10 gets you 20 that if the British public cut her off tomorrow, she'd have no problem surviving. Charles is a money magnet (http://www.duchyoriginals.com/), despite his morals and ethics. Not because of who he is, but because he knows what people want and how to sell it to them.

[Gather round]

.....

[Gather round]

I'd also be very surprised if the resulting tourism wouldn't cover a multiple of any costs to Ireland

A spokesman for the British lobby Republic claimed recently on the BBC that tourism here actually fell in 1981 (when Chas and Di married), compared with the pevious year. I think there was also a similar effect around Euro 96. Overall visitor numbers didn't rise, basically because the football crowds replaced other tourists, rather than adding to them.


And on independence, 10 gets you 20 that if the British public cut her off tomorrow, she'd have no problem surviving

So you respect her for being independently wealthy? It's hard to claim she's independent in other ways, when the whole point of her long era is never saying nor doing anything that hasn't been scripted for her by the government of the day. She's discreet- and since her uncle (King Edward 8, who resigned the job to marry his divorced girlfriend), husband, sons and grandson Harry clearly haven't followed her example, maybe the end of that era may prove a watershed.

I'm guessing most people in RoI are basically indiferent to her visit, as they would be if it was the Queen of Belgium/ Norway/ Western Samoa. At the fringes there'll be a fuss in the sleb-obsessed press, and at the other extreme demos by some political lobbies. Hopefully the organisers/ Guards will be on top of ensuring neither brings the country to a standstill. (I'm not suggesting her political opponents are inherently likely to riot, btw).

[Red Army]

Good post gather round. Also Hamster do you think it will just be eirigh who will protest or do you think the actions of one protesters looking for media attention shares the views of all who will protest about the visit? To tar them all with the same brush is a 'idiotic' view. I should also add if your directing your comment at eirigh when you say they should be protesting at something important like banks. Well as far as I know that group have been doing plenty of protesting about banks and the last government.

[dahamsta]

A spokesman for the British lobby Republic claimed recently on the BBC that tourism here actually fell in 1981 (when Chas and Di married), compared with the pevious year.

I don't get the correlation with a visit from the queen to be honest. I would have thought it obvious that brits would be more likely to holiday at home when an event that created national pride happens. Did they call here on their honeymoon or something? (I was under the impression that although Charles has actually been here, he's never been on an official visit.)


So you respect her for being independently wealthy?That's not what I said, in fact that's almost the opposite of what you actually quoted me as saying. She isn't independently wealthy, by a long stretch. There's very little doubt in my mind that she could if she had to or wanted to though.

[Lionel Ritchie]

The closest they can come to that is this idiocy (http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0225/harneym.html). Hence, idiots.
. I wonder if Mary Harney had given yer wan from Eirigi a full-bodied slap of the shovel she was holding when she'd paint tipped on her...could she have claimed it wasn't an assault but rather her chosen form of legitimate counter-protest. Hmmm.

[dahamsta]

Oh that's fab. No better woman. :)

[Macy]

OT, but sod it - Disgraceful waste of resources Harney pushing that case. The country on it's knees after 14 years of mismanagement by a Government that included her around the cabinet table the whole time, and she wastes more garda, dpp, judge and court resources for a bit of bloody paint. She probably claimed the dry cleaning on expenses anyway. Minihan actually has the moral high ground regardless whether it was a legitimate protest in first place.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Conviction for criminal damage says to me the cops were pushing this case Macy -though they'd have needed Mary Harney to give them a statement. Minihan can pay up and then shove her high ground as far as I'm concerned. Assault is assault whatever your cause. If it was me I'd have lamped her a slap in return ala John Prescott and I'd have apologised to no-one for returning the serve.

[Macy]

Do you really think they went ahead regardless of Harney? And Is a bit of paint even assault and/or criminal damage? By that logic Noonan's custard pie in 2002 was assault as well? Just another waste of resources by Harney - I suppose in the scheme of everything shes done to the country, it's small fry.

[Mr A]

Actually I think she was dead right (assuming she had something to do with the case being brought). It was unacceptable behaviour and a self serving stunt from the Eirigi head, good enough for her.

[Eminence Grise]

The Guards didn’t need Harney to make a complaint. It was criminal damage, pure and simple. There’s a proper, civilised way to protest, and behaving like a yob isn’t it. For all her many faults, Harney carried on in a dignified way. The eirigi thug got what she deserved.


Still, you’d have to question Harney’s security. Isn’t that why ministers have Garda drivers? Maybe the Gardaí pushed the case as a deterrent to other similarly minded uncivil activists.


And maybe they’ll need to up their game when the Queen visits.

[Gather round]

I don't get the correlation with a visit from the queen to be honest

I'm suggesting merely that a high profile event in a country (be that Britain, Ireland, or anywhere else) doesn't necessarily mean a noticeable increase in tourism in/ visitors to that country. I don't claim any detailed knowledge of recent tourism trends in the RoI (other than, at the anecdotal level, that hotel prices have fallen during the recession).


I would have thought it obvious that brits would be more likely to holiday at home when an event that created national pride happens

I was thinking of foreign visitors to Britain. Just to clarify, that's what I meant by "tourism here".


Did they call here on their honeymoon or something? (I was under the impression that although Charles has actually been here, he's never been on an official visit

No idea.


That's not what I said, in fact that's almost the opposite of what you actually quoted me as saying. She isn't independently wealthy, by a long stretch. There's very little doubt in my mind that she could if she had to or wanted to though

She has a personal wealth of about £20 million even if you take the lowest estimate on her wikipedia page. She doesn't act independently in British politics, as I said. I'm not sure what point you are making?

[Macy]

Actually I think she was dead right (assuming she had something to do with the case being brought). It was unacceptable behaviour and a self serving stunt from the Eirigi head, good enough for her.
imo it's a case of two wrongs - Minihan shouldn't have done it, but Harney shouldn't have been vindictive enough to take it to court/ not stop it going to court. If anything it's made Minihan a martyr, as a lot of people agree with the sentiment she was conveying, if not the method used.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Do you really think they went ahead regardless of Harney? And Is a bit of paint even assault and/or criminal damage? By that logic Noonan's custard pie in 2002 was assault as well? Just another waste of resources by Harney - I suppose in the scheme of everything shes done to the country, it's small fry.

Maybe the cops'd like to send a message to the likes of eirigi that this form of "direct action" or wtf they rationalise it as being is going to cost them a few quid too. I contend a bit of paint is assault - be it a bit, a little or a lot. What if it got in her eyes? I know it didn’t but it easily could’ve.
It basically comes down to you either believe tipping things on people is a legitimate form of protest or you don’t. I don’t.

[bennocelt]

Maybe the cops'd like to send a message to the likes of eirigi that this form of "direct action" or wtf they rationalise it as being is going to cost them a few quid too. I contend a bit of paint is assault - be it a bit, a little or a lot. What if it got in her eyes? I know it didn’t but it easily could’ve.
It basically comes down to you either believe tipping things on people is a legitimate form of protest or you don’t. I don’t.

Mary Harney who had a hand in messing up the state of the nation, with the help of the smart Irish people who voted for a clearly corrupt FF led government THREE times. Now we vote for FG,we are clever now and that will sort out all our problems.
And complain about it all the time on the net cause we can.?

[dahamsta]

I'm suggesting merely that a high profile event in a country (be that Britain, Ireland, or anywhere else) doesn't necessarily mean a noticeable increase in tourism in/ visitors to that country.

It doesn't, but in this case I - personally, in my opinion - think it will. My logic is that although Britain is further along with it's recession than Ireland, I assume British people are still looking for cheap holidays, and that many of them will have holidayed in Britain last year and might like a change this year. And Ireland is cheap as chips for accomodation at the moment. Plus I think British tourism numbers have waned in recent years, so I don't think it'd take a lot to bring it up.

There's a lot of assumptions and speculation in there though I'll grant you. :)


I don't claim any detailed knowledge of recent tourism trends in the RoI (other than, at the anecdotal level, that hotel prices have fallen during the recession).Oh believe me, it's not anecdotal, I've been taking advantage of it as often as I can. Hotel prices in Dublin in particular have as much as quartered, you can get fine rooms there every day of the week for less than €50, and Travelodge have a €19 offer at the moment. You couldn't get a room in Dublin a few years ago for less than €100, and you'd likely pay €125 for a bog standard room. It's less obvious in the holiday areas though, which is of course a factor.


I was thinking of foreign visitors to Britain. Just to clarify, that's what I meant by "tourism here".Apologies, I didn't see your location, I just assume everyone one Foot.ie is in Ireland. :)


She has a personal wealth of about £20 million even if you take the lowest estimate on her wikipedia page.I'd be wary of that, to be honest, it's only relatively recently that the assets of the person and the Crown have been separated, and there's still a lot of crossover. However...


I'm not sure what point you are making?I'm not sure what point you were making either, so let's leave that one... ;)

[Eminence Grise]

Mary Harney who had a hand in messing up the state of the nation, with the help of the smart Irish people who voted for a clearly corrupt FF led government THREE times. Now we vote for FG,we are clever now and that will sort out all our problems.
And complain about it all the time on the net cause we can.?

You forgot to include the encryption key. (I'm guessing anything this unintelligible has to be in code, right?)

[bennocelt]

Funny guy:rolleyes:

[dahamsta]

Ordinarily I'd give an infraction for that sort of thing in here, but to be perfectly frank I didn't understand a word of it either. I was waiting for Mel Gibson or Tom Cruise or Charlie Sheen to come along to back you up.

[bennocelt]

That your complaining about people who did Harney over with paint, she deserved it - so what? Better than moaning on the internet all the time and doing nothing.

[dahamsta]

Have you met the kettle? Do you need a hand down off that horse?

[bennocelt]

Have you met the kettle? Do you need a hand down off that horse?

Not really cause Im supporting what that person did not criticizing it.

[The Fly]

Anthony Stokes' father is on liveline at the moment making a sterling contribution to this debate.........http://209.85.122.87/5902/57/0/e5001357//e5001357.gif

[SwanVsDalton]

I'm sure Lizzie will be very disappointed she can't call into the Players Lounge for a quick Sherry. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-12745846)

I love when he says 'it's just a bit of craic' before launching into a 'three-fold' rant on why she shouldn't be coming.

[Mr A]

"I might have to close the pub down, but some things are more important than money."

Yeah. Like publicity seeking.

[osarusan]

If the Queen took her crown off and came in here with a pair of jeans and a shirt on as an ordinary person she would be welcome here for a pint of Guinness

She'd still be the head of state you dingbat.

[Eminence Grise]

How Times change....

The Irish Times prepares to welcome the Queen... in 1900.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2011/0316/1224292257743.html

[gustavo]

Funnily enough he's happy enough to have his son paying taxes to support the Queen's lifestyle

[thischarmingman]

Publican to remove banner barring Queen

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/publican-to-remove-banner-barring-queen-2582620.html


"This is nothing against English people. We've a lot of English people in the pub, we show English football and we're quite happy to do that," he said.

[BonnieShels]

I heard that in liveline. God I get angry with myself when I listen to that toss.

[Macy]

Just back from an evening in A&E - Fook it, Minihan was right. Absolutely disgusting to see the way patients are expected to tolerate their stay. She has blood on her hands and she deserves everything she gets. Ye can ponce all you want about civilised protest and acceptable behaviour - nothing too civilised or acceptable with Harney's Legacy.

[dahamsta]

I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on Harney. The system was screwed before she arrived and she implemented some reforms that have been applauded by people in the service. The health service is (a lot) bigger than one minister.

[Mr A]

Back on Anthony Stokes parents: http://www.u.tv/News/Celtic-stars-parents-arrested-in-raid/b74e7b41-316d-4a29-96d2-fb0ab1b777db


An estimated €500 of cocaine and an amount of bullets were found as upwards of 100 officers raided properties across the city on Friday morning.

Three people were arrested, including 54-year-old John and 55-year-old Joan Stokes, parents of Celtic player Anthony Stokes. Another man, aged 46, was also detained.

The Royal party will probably pass up drinkypoos in their bar light of this.

[Macy]

I don't think it's fair to put all the blame on Harney. The system was screwed before she arrived and she implemented some reforms that have been applauded by people in the service. The health service is (a lot) bigger than one minister.
And she did what to improve the A&E situation? It was worse by the end of her term than the bloody start. To invoke Godwins Law on myself - I'm sure some in Germany still applaud the autobahns and the beetle...

[tetsujin1979]

Passed through the Phoenix Park on my way home earlier, there's notices up that the roads are to be closed for repairs, due to finish just in time for Liz's arrival.
What a happy coincidence.

BTW, the main road through the park, from the entrance to the Castleknock exit, has been in bits since the heavy snow at the beginning of the year, it's so bad on one side that you're better off driving in the middle of the road to safeguard your car's suspension

[BonnieShels]

Passed through the Phoenix Park on my way home earlier, there's notices up that the roads are to be closed for repairs, due to finish just in time for Liz's arrival.
What a happy coincidence.

BTW, the main road through the park, from the entrance to the Castleknock exit, has been in bits since the heavy snow at the beginning of the year, it's so bad on one side that you're better off driving in the middle of the road to safeguard your car's suspension


Yeah drove up Chesterfield Avenue for the first time since last year; Road's in rag order. A disgrace... I distinctly remember Noel Dempsey saying we had no money for road repairs...

God Save Lizzy for this road improvement.

[tetsujin1979]

call me cynical, but the last time a road was badly in need of repairs and completed before a major international event came to Ireland was the upgrade of the Naas dual carriageway, completed just in time for the Ryder Cup.

[Macy]

There was water or sewage works on in the Park a few weeks ago, iirc from Live Drive on Dublin City FM (not my route, so don't pay that much attention).

[dahamsta]

And she did what to improve the A&E situation?

I'm not talking about A&E specifically, but if you want me to: A&E was in the horrors long, long before Harney came along. Of course she should have improved the situation, but it's not like A&E is the sole remit of Health.

[awec]

I think this is a good thing to be honest. Shows that everyone has grown up (bar the few usual morons that you'll see out protesting no doubt). It's more about the symbolism than anything else.

[SkStu]

I'm not talking about A&E specifically, but if you want me to: A&E was in the horrors long, long before Harney came along. Of course she should have improved the situation, but it's not like A&E is the sole remit of Health.

agree with this totally.

To develop the point a bit further, I always felt that the Health Ministers in Ireland got a very, very raw deal. Health truly is a poisoned chalice. Show me an efficient health system anywhere in the world that could easily be transposed into the exisiting Irish health framework. Its nearly impossible. Canada and France are commonly considered as being two of the most efficient and fair health systems in the western world but even they are extremely vulnerable to the black hole effect.

Dont get me wrong, I still dislike Harney intensely but healthcare is a disaster everywhere.

[tetsujin1979]

dated a nurse many, many moons ago and she reckoned that the South Korean healthcare system was the best in the world. The minister for health was a former surgeon, and he reorganised the whole setup

[Macy]

agree with this totally.

To develop the point a bit further, I always felt that the Health Ministers in Ireland got a very, very raw deal. Health truly is a poisoned chalice. Show me an efficient health system anywhere in the world that could easily be transposed into the exisiting Irish health framework. Its nearly impossible. Canada and France are commonly considered as being two of the most efficient and fair health systems in the western world but even they are extremely vulnerable to the black hole effect.

Dont get me wrong, I still dislike Harney intensely but healthcare is a disaster everywhere.
She did nothing to try and change the system at all though. The HSE was made into a mechanism to sheild her, and she tried to enshrine the two teir system with co location. Apart from that, she did and attempted nothing, and never accepted any responsibility. She's held up as some feckin radical thinker, but what did she actually do? Rob a Green party policy on smokeless fuel back in the 80's seems to be the height of it. Oh and she didn't need a script to do a speech. She was just another gombeen politician, only her constituency was business interests rather than attending funerals.

Maybe the FG/ Labour plan won't work (I have reservations about the particular form of universal care that FG are following), but at least it is an attempt at root and branch reform of the system to give us some equality of access. Any figures I've seen dissing the plan or inflating the cost, don't appear to include what people pay outside of health insurance for GP's, Nurses etc.