Republic of Ireland V Norway - Wednesday, 17th November 2010 - Friendly

[SwanVsDalton]

Would rather see a player with a long-term future at CB - O'Dea or possibly Wilson - than an out of position Kelly at CB.

[tetsujin1979]

Ledger and Green out of the squad according to FourFourTwo: http://twitter.com/#!/FourFourTwo/statuses/4227123367641088
NEW NEWS: Sean St Ledger and Paul Green out of Republic of Ireland squad to face Norway through injury

[SwanVsDalton]

Bad day to be an Ireland player. If I was in the squad I'd be avoiding black cats/walking under ladders.

[TrapAPony]

At least there will be no game time for Kilbane, McShane and Green. :smirk:

[Predator]

I wonder will another centre half be called up as back up? Any worthy U21 candidates? I suppose Wilson is considered an alternative.
I'd like O'Dea and O'Shea to play in the centre, with Kelly at right back and Cunningham at left back.

[geysir]

If St Ledger is out, it would be strange not to use the squad CH (O'Dea) as a replacement.

I'd say Trap might well start with Kelly at RB and have Coleman come on at 1/2 time

[shakermaker1982]

Start Coleman at RM and let him entertain the crowd with his enthusiasm and skill.

[geysir]

RTE (http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2010/1115/ireland.html) are now reporting St Ledger & Green withdrawal

[rebelmusic]

Sledge is a miss, but im not bothered about Green. Kinda handy the way these injuries are forcing Trap to blood new players properly.

[SkStu]

I want to see this :

Given

Foley O'Shea Kelly Cunningham

Coleman Wilson Fahey Duff

Doyle Long

if i saw that line-up i would be surprised in a very good way. That would make me evaluate Trap's modus operandi all over again.

[Kingdom]

So what is the remaining squad?

Given; Joe Murphy;
Stephen Kelly; Kevin Foley: John O'Shea; Darren O'Dea; Greg Cunningham; Seamus Coleman
Aiden McGeady; Glenn Whelan; Marc Wilson; Keith Fahey; Liam Lawrence; Damien Duff; Stephen Hunt;
Kevin Doyle; Shane Long; Jon Walters;

Of that, I'd like to see (and just to clarify for P OShea, that is my preferred line up [given whats available] not what I'd expect the Mister to put out ;-)):

--------------------Given-----------------

Foley-------Josh (c)----Wilson-----Cunningham

Coleman----Whelan-----Fahey-----McGeady

-------------Doyle----Walters-------------


This is another possibility given the resources available:

--------------------Given-----------------

Foley-------Josh (c)----O'Dea-----Cunningham

-----Lawrence----Whelan-----Wilson---------

------------------McGeady------------------

---------------Doyle----Walters-------------

I'd just like to see something a bit different. And for the ball to be kept on the ground and in play for a bit of time.
In my mind, he must play Foley right back. He's been very good at Wolves this season, and crucially he can both defend and attack. He must make some sort of a decision on left back, either give Cunningham or Kelly the full game. Be decisive about it, because sooner or later the decision is going to be made for him in a sense. Give Walters the opportunity to play the battering ram role that we seem to always have. Don't make substitutions in dribs and drabs.

He needs to start being positive with the squad. This is the first in a series of games where he can legitimately experiment. Norway, Uruguay, Wales, Northern Ireland, Scotland and probably two American friendlies. That is enough time to decide on some current filler in the squad, and more than enough time to call time on a few careers.

All that imagining aside, I think Trap will go for this:

--------------------Given-----------------

Coleman-------Josh (c)----Wilson-----Cunningham

McGeady----Whelan-----Fahey-----Duff-------

-------------Doyle------Long-----------------

[SkStu]

Bad day to be an Ireland player. If I was in the squad I'd be avoiding black cats/walking under ladders.

why would you be avoiding Sunderland AFC?

[ifk101]

Based on how Trapattoni has picked his side in the past, I think he'll probably line-up as follows:

Given;
Kelly, JOSH, O'Dea, Cunningham;
McGeady, Whelan, Wilson, Duff;
Long, Walters.

I read this morning that Doyle might be carrying an injury so that would open up the way for Walters to start. Not to sure if Trapattoni sees Wilson as a defender or midfielder, but given his reluctance to try players in different positions (which effectively rules Fahey out in the centre) I feel Wilson is the only option left in the squad to partner Whelan. With two debutants in the team, added to a number of relatively inexperienced players at international level, I think Trapattoni will fill the rest of his team with as much experience as possible.

[drummerboy]

Keane was on to Trap, he reckons O'Dea, who is just returning to fitness, needs game time. If O'Dea is not going to feature tomorrow night, Keane wants him back in Ipswich for a friendly. So the fact that O'Dea is still with the squad, suggests that he will start tomorrow night.

[Stuttgart88]

I'd be quite excited by something like this but the papers this morning have barely mentioned Foley.

---------Given--------
Foley-JOS-DOD-Cunningham
Coleman-Wilson-Whelan-Duff
----Long--Doyle-----

Plenty of players to take a look at including Treacy and Walters, maybe Fahey in CM rather than wide. I'd be inclined to leave Lawrence & McGeady out of contention, we know what they're all about. I think there's a logic to not trying out too many new faces at once, but I think there's enough seniority in the XI above to introduce the newbies andthose with fewer caps. It looks like the FBs might get a bit exposed, but what harm? There are a lot of good ball players in the XI above. Let them play football.

[tetsujin1979]

I'd be happy with this lineup


Given
Foley O'Shea Wilson Cunningham
McGeady Whelan Fahey Duff
Walters DoyleColeman to come on for McGeady, or for Duff with McGeady swapping wings
I've said before I don't think Fahey can play in central midfield in Trapattoni's team so let's see what he can do there
Long/Walters is a judgement call at this stage TBH
Very attacking left side too

PS Doyle would have buried Coleman's cross at the weekend, how Cahill missed it is beyond me

[geysir]

Because a good footballers can miss a sitter, even Doyle can miss a sitter.

[tommy_c12000]

-------------Given----------------
Coleman-O'Shea-O'Dea-Cunningham
McGeady---Wilson---Fahey---Duff
----------Doyle-Long------------

This would be my starting team.
Half time changes would be: - Foley for McGeady, with Coleman moving to RW and Foley to RB
- Hunt for Duff
Late changes (80mins plus): - Whelan for Wilson
- Lawrence for Coleman (to a standing ovation. . . . .)

I would make no other changes. Kelly and Walters simply are not good enough at this level so it is a complete waste of time giving them game time. Stokes would have started in my team.

[Charlie Darwin]

Bit harsh on Kelly there. I do think he should be the unlucky one to sit on the bench while Foley and Coleman play RB, but he has a very good chance of being a very good full back for us.

[Crosby87]

Agree with many of you, give Coleman the start and see what happens.
Maybe McGeady scores here to get off the snide. I could see that happening.

[Wolfie]

Pity that Jamie McCarthy is injured, may well have got the nod due to so many drop outs.

[Charlie Darwin]

Ken Early on twitter:

given (c), kelly, o'shea, o'dea, cunningham, lawrence, fahey, whelan, duff, long, doyle

http://twitter.com/#!/kenearlys (http://twitter.com/#%21/kenearlys)

I assume Lawrence's inclusion is to accommodate Fahey in the centre and give him a little more protection. Perhaps second half it'll be Fahey on the left, Coleman on the right and Wilson in the middle. A little bit disappointing but at least we're seeing some new faces. Would have liked Walters to start instead of Doyle too, but I guess he needs to try the new combination in the event of Keane missing more games.

[geysir]

I expected him to go for Kelly and O'Dea starting.
Wilson and Coleman should get a decent stint with Walters coming on also.

[tetsujin1979]

Little surprised there's no debutants in the starting lineup, but overall I'm happy with that.

[rebelmusic]

Made it pretty clear he'll change it around in the second half. Would actually prefer to see Coleman off the bench around the 50 min mark

Can't understand the Kelly start, Trap really doesn't have faith in Foley.

[geysir]

Re Kelly, it's a question of experience with the set up, rather than actual ability.

[drummerboy]

While I would have liked to see Foley start, Kelly has done well in the past, bar one mistake. He has also found himself back in favour at Fulham and has been playing well for them. However I would like to see Foley, Coleman, Wilson and Walters all getting 30 minutes at the very least.

[Charlie Darwin]

Kelly and Foley are both playing regularly at the same level in the same position. There's not an awful lot to tell between them but I think Kelly is the better defender.

More from Early:

"trap believes fahey has long-term potential at CM. says he has a good personality. also wants to look at wilson in that position"

Good to hear. My impression from the past year or so is that he didn't trust Fahey in the centre, so it's nice to see he's had a change of heart.

[tommy_c12000]

How Kelly can start ahead of Coleman or Foley is beyond me? Lawrence is a poor call as well, ahead of Coleman, McGeady and Hunt. Also, Whelan has been awful in recent games and isn't up to it. Would have loved to have seen Wilson start. Come off the stage Trapper u bluffer!

The only reason Kelly is starting at the moment is because of the rift between Mark Hughes and Paintsil. He simply isn't a premiership footballer. There is no doubt that he will be upgraded in January. Granted he can defend reasonably well, this pales into insignificance when he cannot pass or cross the ball.

http://cc.fulhamfc.com/forum/topics/kelly-cant-cross-his-crosses?id=3232738%3ATopic%3A503693&page=2#comments

[tommy_c12000]

Couple of positive notes are Cunningham starting and Fahey in at midfield. At last Trap has started a centre mid who can actually pass the ball. . . . . . . . . .

[geysir]

Can't remember a game without KK starting, he must be seriously injured.

[Charlie Darwin]

How Kelly can start ahead of Coleman or Foley is beyond me? Lawrence is a poor call as well, ahead of Coleman, McGeady and Hunt. Also, Whelan has been awful in recent games and isn't up to it. Would have loved to have seen Wilson start. Come off the stage Trapper u bluffer!

The only reason Kelly is starting at the moment is because of the rift between Mark Hughes and Paintsil. He simply isn't a premiership footballer. There is no doubt that he will be upgraded in January. Granted he can defend reasonably well, this pales into insignificance when he cannot pass or cross the ball.
So Kelly's starting because the manager prefers him to the other players? Give that man a free transfer.

Kelly is a first-team player for a Fulham side who've conceded 13 goals this season. Foley's team have conceded 23, the joint third-worst defensive record in the division. Is it that hard to believe that Trap's gone with the more solid defender?

[tommy_c12000]

So Kelly's starting because the manager prefers him to the other players? Give that man a free transfer.

Kelly is a first-team player for a Fulham side who've conceded 13 goals this season. Foley's team have conceded 23, the joint third-worst defensive record in the division. Is it that hard to believe that Trap's gone with the more solid defender?


If Trap had taken time out of his busy schedule of sipping on his apple martinis poolside at his villa to visit Craven Cottage he would have discovered (like every other fulham supporter) that Kelly isn't a Premiership footballer, simple as that. Foley has been having a great season as testified by Manc Irish Wolf on the Kevin Foley thread.
http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=54647 (http://www.molineuxmix.co.uk/vb/showthread.php?t=54647)
It is a no brainer, Foley should be in at right back.

So by your logic:
- Man Utd have conceded 15 goals this season, Aaron Hughes is a better player than Rio Ferdinand.
- Liverpool have conceded 17 goals season, that makes Kelly better than Glen Johnson as well, etc, etc, could go on but I've better things to do with my time.

Don't think looking at a team's overall statistics is a strong an indicator as you think it is when it comes to picking the best individuals for international football

[Charlie Darwin]

Maybe he should just call you up and get his opinions straight from the source.

Seriously, "Kelly isn't a Premiership footballer"? Half a dozen managers would disagree.

I wasn't claiming defensive records are the sole indicator of ability, and you're right to point out evidence to the contrary, but it's fairly clear to me that Foley's main attributes are going forward while Kelly is a very solid defender.

[KK77]

Can't believe Coleman isn't starting. Joke.

[tommy_c12000]

Maybe he should just call you up and get his opinions straight from the source.

Seriously, "Kelly isn't a Premiership footballer"? Half a dozen managers would disagree.

I wasn't claiming defensive records are the sole indicator of ability, and you're right to point out evidence to the contrary, but it's fairly clear to me that Foley's main attributes are going forward while Kelly is a very solid defender.

I probably am being a bit harsh on Kelly. He is a viable option if O'Shea, Foley and perhaps Coleman (still not convinced by his defensive capabilities) aren't available. But I would have definitely started Foley ahead of Kelly for this friendly. I really do hope Trap would pick the phone up and give me a shout, not sure if the conversation would end amicably though. . . . . .

[SwanVsDalton]

Would've liked to see Coleman get a start, but have no doubt he'll have serious impact off the bench and hope he gets a good run. I'd expect at least half hour / 40 mins for him, Wilson and Walters. Team's OK, could've been a bit more exciting but I'm very interested to see Fahey at CM, not to mention O'Dea, Cunningham and Long getting to develop their claims.

EDIT - And there isn't much to choose between Foley and Kelly imo. Kelly shades it thanks to experience but hope Foley gets a decent run too.

[Charlie Darwin]

I probably am being a bit harsh on Kelly. He is a viable option if O'Shea, Foley and perhaps Coleman (still not convinced by his defensive capabilities) aren't available. But I would have definitely started Foley ahead of Kelly for this friendly. I really do hope Trap would pick the phone up and give me a shout, not sure if the conversation would end amicably though. . . . . .
I'd have started Foley too for this game but I still think Kelly is the better player. It's a sensible enough decision - O'Shea isn't getting much football, Dunne has been struggling with injuries for a long time and Sledge isn't quite right, so he may well need a new face to step up for the next competitive game. I don't think Coleman is going to be that player for at least a couple of years (or he could turn out to be a sensational winger who's wasted at full back) and it won't hurt to have Kelly for a bit of continuity.

[shakermaker1982]

Extremely disappointed with that line up.

If Keane, Dunne, Kilbane and Green were fit we'd have seen them in the starting 11 as well.

[SwanVsDalton]

Extremely disappointed with that line up.

If Keane, Dunne, Kilbane and Green were fit we'd have seen them in the starting 11 as well.

I don't see why people get disappointed. Blooding new players is always about balance, about experienced faces beside them to help them out but also about getting a result. There'd be nothing worse than a bunch newbies taking a thrashing on their debut.

Coleman's the main one to lose out, but that's a side with four players developing on the international stage, O'Shea back at CB and Kelly staking a claim at RB. All healthy competition, all intriguing for any fan.

[Stuttgart88]

Very disappointed that Foley isn't picked over Kelly - though Foley's error for Elmander's (superb) goal seems to have been overlooked by everyone here and criticism of Kelly above is unfair. He's a decent enough player, but probably no more than that.

I've no doubt Coleman and Wilson will see a fair bit of action and in Coleman's case I wouldn't be surprised if they're accomodating Moyes by giving Coleman only 45 minutes.

I hope Fahey grabs his chance.

[Lenny82]

Extremely disappointed with that line up.

If Keane, Dunne, Kilbane and Green were fit we'd have seen them in the starting 11 as well.

Couldn't agree with you more, those 4 defo would have started. Trap's hand has been forced with these injuries but after the stick he has received recently, he has no choice but to go with as many experienced players as possible. Very inexperienced international defence which is why he's gone with Kelly, Fahey in at CM which is why he's stuck with Whelan, was no need to start Lawrence and Doyle starting is puely down to experience and the 100% he puts in in every shift. He also missed the Slovakia game so I'm sure he was keen to play in Green again!!!

[Kingdom]

Instant impression is one of disappointment, but if I let my imagination run away with itself the past few days with all the withdrawals and got carried away, it's still an interesting team selection, albeit one done with a hand tied around the back.

He obviously doesn't see Wilson as a centre half. We were warned by Drummerboy that O'Dea would start.
Fahey in the middle really could be interesting. I'm very disappointed he's picked Duff over McGeady, the only reason I can think of is that he feels Duff will offer Cunningham more protection given his inexperience.
I have to say I'm disappointed he's picked Lawrence on the right. I like LL, but we know what he can offer, and I would have preferred to see either Coleman or McGeady start there.

I'm trying to temper my disgust that Foley isn't starting with the fact that kelly is there longer and is equally deserving of a pick, but the kid has been very good so far this season, and has been around the fringes long enough. I suppose he ain't really a kid anymore either.

I hope he'll make the following changes as the game wears on.
Foley -> Kelly
Coleman -> Lawrence
Wilson -> Whelan
Treacy -> Duff
Walters -> Doyle

[tetsujin1979]

I think Fahey's starting position might have come at the expense of Coleman's. Including those two, plus Duff in a four man midfield would give it a very weak defensive outlook. Lawrence adds a bit more stability, he's not going to go forward as often, or as fast as Coleman, but he's not going to leave Kelly as exposed as I think Coleman would.

[Predator]

Re Kelly, it's a question of experience with the set up, rather than actual ability.I think it's the combination of greater experience and ability. Kelly's not terrible. Having said that, ability has never always been a prerequisite for getting into Trap's sides.


How Kelly can start ahead of Coleman or Foley is beyond me?It's fairly simple. Experience. This may be a friendly, but it's still a fairly important game, in terms of having experience and consistency within the team. Interestingly, Trap actually started Foley in CM in one of the behind closed doors friendlies - shifting McShane to right back to accommodate the Duffy O'Dea partnership. I wonder will McShane still be in contention for the RB slot after this game, with three prospective right backs in the squad?

Lawrence is a poor call as well, ahead of Coleman, McGeady and Hunt.Disagree. Lawrence is a solid, hardworking winger who has been fit and playing well. Coleman has had limited experience on the wing, McGeady is suspect when it comes to tracking back and Hunt is just returning from injury and naturally has yet to find good form.

Also, Whelan has been awful in recent games and isn't up to it. Would have loved to have seen Wilson start.Experience. Depending on how awful Whelan may be, Wilson should get a decent run out.

[geysir]

Egil "Drillo" Olsen at Lansdowne Rd.
Drillo wants to win this game, while he considers the performance more important than the result nevertheless he thinks they will win 1-0.
http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF654/472987.jpg

[Kingdom]

I appreciate that Tets. The problem (a good problem) is that we actually have the players available (for one night only) to play a quick-passing, fast-tempo game.

Foley- Coleman/Foley-McGeady & Cunningham-Duff/Cunningham-McGeady with a middle pair of Glenn & Fats and Doyle and Long is an extremely skillful team. Pace is something we've not been genuinely blessed with for a while. It can be utilised.

Also it's a slight team, but I'm not sure LL is more aggressive than Coleman, Kelly probably is a bit more so than Foley though.

[Kingdom]

Egil "Drillo" Olsen at Lansdowne Rd.
Drillo wants to win this game, while he considers the performance more important than the result nevertheless he thinks they will win 1-0.
http://www.sportsfile.com/winshare/watermarked-b/Library/SF654/472987.jpg

The mad genius.

[Stuttgart88]

We were warned by Drummerboy that O'Dea would start. It's hardly an apocalyptic selection. O'Dea did well for us in May and we were stuck for options. At least he's actually a CB. If he plays well he may well keep ahead of McShane in the reserve CB pecking order.

I agree with your suggested substitutions.

[geysir]

O'Dea hasn't played in a while for Ipswich. he is a barebones selection.