Trap out now!

[Spudulika]

Is it just me or are members of the media, step forward the Indo writers, on a vendetta to get rid of Il Trap? Given we've just seen Ireland go one up on Slovakia will tomorrow morning's papers have more of the same? I keep reading - the honeymoon is over, he's lost the players etc. Why do our media try to hard to ape their cousins on the "mainland"? It's beyond pathetic and is lapped up by the barstoolers!

[Razors left peg]

I had one such muppet call us the Republic of Flop today to me... didnt even bother arguing with the clown and just walked away

[Spudulika]

It amazed, is amazing, me how absolutely pathetic the Irish media are being. It's The Sun light, and they have an excellent audience, people who were saying, before the game, "sure Russia don't have anyone, only Arshavin, hardly any of them play in England, sure they wouldn't even get a game up in Scotland." Total pig ignorance of people who wouldn't allow their shadow in an LOI game. It's sad, and the media agenda is plain to be seen, they want Trap out because he didn't do what they've told him. Dunphy started it all when he got the job, now it's getting worse.

[Billsthoughts]

this thread remnded me of "the president has died......his hair"

[SkStu]

a concerted media campaign to remove Trap based on pettiness is one thing. There are a number of valid questions that need to be asked of this regime though.

[sullanefc]

Then you have the likes of Cathal Dervin in the Star who never gave Trap a chance. He was a big fan of Venables at the time of the appointment. His ilk are delighted with results at the moment. Clown.

[Spudulika]

SkStu, as soon as you use the word..."regime" .....you've betrayed your bias. When you see how similiar sized or smaller countries develop their young players, and the leagues they play in, we're so far behind it's scary. There is a major push on to get Trap out, it's been dormant since Paris, where all the self-satisfied and smug writers who couldn't cross their legs let alone a ball, lined up to say how our players were better than this. They tried to make out that the Sky league is something other than helter skelter kick and rush, when that is what makes it exciting. The nastiness is building against the manager.

[elroy]

Its a UK media style disease that has taken on here in recent times. The treatment of Stan (one of our greatest players) by the media in particular was terrible.

We expect alot from our football team, we are small country with limited resources. Look at us compared to Scotland or Wales or even where we were a couple of years ago. We are a decent team, making progress and with a prospect for a bright future. After tonights result, we look set to be in the hunt for qualification right till the very end again, it remains to be seen if we achieve it. Overall like his style/system or not, Trap has done a good job with Ireland, called up more players than previous managers and in general has the team on an upward curve.

[Charlie Darwin]

It's a bit simplistic just to call it a "UK media" thing - yes, they're savage over there, but it's hardly the only place in the world where the media generates hysteria where it's not really warranted (although, to be fair, rather they keep it to sport than the insidious role the US media plays in politics).

[osarusan]

SkStu, as soon as you use the word..."regime" .....you've betrayed your bias.
As soon as you accuse somebody who makes a valid point of 'bias', you have displayed your bias.

[tetsujin1979]

feared the worst when I saw the thread title, but you are right.
McDonnell in the Independent (and the Indo in general) has been stirring up sh!t for a few months now, and I'd love to know where he gets his stories from.

[SkStu]

SkStu, as soon as you use the word..."regime" .....you've betrayed your bias..

i would have thought my position on Trappatoni was quite clear at this stage. Though im not sure how saying "regime" indicates anything other than that he is in charge....

I just dont enjoy watching this Irish team at all. Its worse football than the Charlton era. Turgid stuff. I dont see the future of this Irish team at all. Some will say that is not Trappatoni's remit and, while i think that it should be, it is a valid point. I would rather have someone else paid a few hundred grand if all they are going to do is coach a team of championship players to play hoofball and defend in 2 lines of 4. But 2 million quid? Pfffft. Ridiculous.

If there is a genuine discontent with Trap from the Irish media based on tactics and squad selection then i have no problem with that. There is a case there against Trap. If there is a campaign to have him removed which is founded on their journalistic ego being bruised then it is petty and pathetic and solves nothing.

[Spudulika]

SkStu, the Irish media are in complete depression mode - listen to Joe Duffy or watch Frontline, or read the Indo or Times, it's a case of who gets in the knife in first and deepest. Using the word regime is usually attributed to "winning" nations pointing out how bad other ones are. Junta, generals and ruling elite are 3 others that convey an image that often betrays the mindset and actuality of those who are saying it. Though fair play to Osarusan for mentioning my own bias, it is firmly against poor journalism and pettiness.

From before qualifying started for Euro '88 Jack was under scrutiny by the media, I was at the Wales and Uruguay games and remember people griping about how poor we were. Dunphy led the line against him as he had wanted Giles to be back in the hotseat, so too did Giles. So when Ireland began to tighten up and be competitive, the bandwaggon began to roll, though not fully until after the MacKay goal, then it dawned on the country that something was happening. The doubters were silenced and it was only when the team began to age and wobble that knives really came out, plus Jack messed up himself with his infamous interviews! However since then there is a major market with barstoolers and non-sports fans to receive wisdom dispensed by those whose sole aim it is to sell copy or themselves. Numptys will take Dunphy seriously yet not question how he hasn't the foggiest about the LOI or leagues outside of what is shown on Sky, he's the best in the world! I would love to see Ireland play fancy football, though a return to Jack's tactics of put them under pressure was needed against Russia to knock them off the game and then we could play, however we don't seem to be able to switch up our game. Is this the manager or players? The media will place the blame squarely on the manager, with sly digs at the barstoolers least favourite players in order to keep the negative balance.

[tommy_c12000]

In today's Independent:

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/vendetta-is-an-italian-word-2382953.html

I would agree with many of the arguments in this article. There are a couple of things in it that I wouldn't necessarily go along with.

- Wilson was in fact in the squad for the two games.
- Reid had only a couple of minutes of premiership football under his belt all season so calling him in for the two qualifiers perhaps wasn't viable. But he certainly should have been in the squad before that. Also Fahey has the best dead ball delivery by a country mile. Reid floats it a bit too much for my liking. I've watched Fahey's technique in delivering the cross yesterday for Zigic a number of times, it is flawless. Using Reid as your main argument against Trapattoni is questionable. I would have honed in on the case for McCarthy more. A truly great player in the making. Also, Trap not knowing that he wasn't tied to us after a friendly international is criminal. Paid 2 million a year and not having the basic knowledge of what ties a player to your country is incomprehensible.

- I have seen Ward a few times and he hasn't impressed me. Going by posts on Wolves fan's forums, they don't rate him too highly either. A stronger argument would be to play Foley at RB freeing O'Shea to cover LB.

- He did a good job with Green - likening his inclusion to Maurice Flitcroft's participation in the 1976 Britis Open is outstanding. Shooting a 121 in golf is probably close enough to the footballing equivalent of how Green performed in all of his competitive games.

- I would have also mentioned the libability of KIlbane at LB and the bizarre inclusion of Cunningham.

Still though I agree with the essence of the message. The stubborness Trap has shown since his appointment has been disgraceful. His ability to alienate players would make Roy Keane proud.

I was ecstatic when Trap took over in 2008. But this ecstasy was shortlived, when it dawned on me that Trap was treating the Irish job as a hobby to ease himself slowly in retirement. A 2 million sweetener, how bad?? O'Neill would be a great appointment but he will be back in club management by the time the FAI move for a new coach. Vendetta is an Italian word

[tommy_c12000]

Oh ya, and the author's referral to the "immensely promising" Darron Gibson is optimistic in the extreme.
Apparently, Trap's treatment of Gibson has "affected the Manchester United man's confidence to such an extent that he looks much diminished in the Irish shirt these days." He never looked remotely competent in an Irish shirt when he was given game time. Delusional out of the author

[tetsujin1979]

Dear God, where to begin with that article


Giovanni Trapattoni is making a mess of the Irish manager's job. And if he doesn't get his act together pronto, the FAI should give him the boot
Ok then, and replace him with whom exactly? Also, given that the Independent have harped on (and on, and on) about the state of the FAI's finances, should they really be advocating sacking a manager, which will result in paying off the rest of his contract, as well as the backroom staff, and then start paying a new man at the helm?


We've become so used to Reid's omission from the Irish international squad that there's a tendency to treat it as a fait accompli.
Andy Reid has played a grand total of 39 minutes this season, only 6 of which were in Premier League games, and didn't make it off the bench in a further two league games. You really think he would have made the difference against Russia?
Also, the phrase is "au fait accompli"


Stephen Ward of Wolves, injured at the moment, was left out of the squad when he would have been a better bet than the increasingly ludicrous Kevin Kilbane at left-back.Ward isn't injured, he played yesterday. He's only been omitted from the starting XI in two games for Wolves this season, both League Cup games. He's started every Premiership game, so it's not like he was injured in the build up to the Russia/Slovakia double header either. Seriously, who is doing the research (or lack thereof) at the Independent lately?


Marc Wilson moved up from Portsmouth to Stoke in the same deal that took Ireland first-teamer Liam Lawrence in the other direction. No place for him either.Not only was he in the squad, he was on the bench against Slovakia. An error of McDonnell-ian proportions.

The title of the article is "Vendetta is an Italian word", which is pretty ironic considering the tone and direction of articles in the Independent about the Ireland team in recent months.

That entire article boils down to "Giovanni Trappatoni should be sacked because he plays Paul Green instead of Andy Reid".

<EDIT>

I've been going increasingly annoyed with the Independent's coverage of the Irish team and management in recent weeks, so I've sent a slighly amended version of this post to the editor of the Independent. Let's see if it gets published.

[EastTerracer]

Good luck with that Tets! When you see the two letters they printed this morning slating Robbie Keane for diving for the penalty (despite the evidence to the contrary we've already seen) it's obvious that the Indo has lost all editorial integrity.

[SwanVsDalton]

One thing having a legitimate gripe with Trap's methods/selections, another throwing journalistic quality out of the window in favour of petty moaning and biased tub-thumping. The article has some decent points - pity it's wrapped in very obvious point scoring with very little reference to the reality. Ward should be included instead of the 'ludicrous' Kilbane (who played well against Russia and Slovakia)? Reid should be in despite barely playing all year? Gibson's being destroyed by Trap? Yawn.

[tetsujin1979]

for the sake of transparency, I've published the letter as an open letter on my blog: http://tetsujin1979.blogspot.com/2010/10/open-letter-to-irish-independent.html
feel free to share on facebook/twitter/etc

[Spudulika]

It's going to get worse over the winter and ramped up to fever pitch if we don't beat Norway. I don't know if it was the coach or the players who got it wrong against Russia, they knew they had to get stuck into them, kick Arshavin up the arsene a a few times and keep their defence pressurised. The Russians were, and are, a shambles, yet after last Friday they were suddenly a "world class side" tm. Dunphy. Which is a joke, after the Macedonia game there was war in the camp and now Arshavin is leading the charge to get rid of the coach. Of course the learned colleagues of the 5th estate in the Irish media (can't call them 4th estate as that bestows something decent to them in this matter) are out for sales - not blood. Dunphy has been the puppet for all of this and the newswriters try to ape his style. He got rid of a good coach and decent man in Eoin Hand (anyone remember his rants when we lost last time to the USSR?), made sure to undermine Jack Charlton, he slaughtered Mick McCarthy, destroyed Brian Kerr, went after Steve Staunton because he took Roy Keane's spot (who then became the object of his ire when he publicly humiliated Dunphy) and he's been after Trappatoni non-stop (with some brief respite after the first two group games). There will be blood.

[weldoninhio]

He has been in the job 2 and a half years now, picking up E2 million a year and for what exactly?? Doesn't bother going to games to scout out players, is completely rigid in his thinking and has no plan B for when plan A doesn't work. He must think Irish people are mugs, getting money for old rope. The fact that he hasn't even bothered to pick up the language to a decent level shows what contempt he has, how can you communicate to the players through a translator and get across exactly what you want???? Ridiculous!!!



TRAP OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[The Fly]

He has been in the job 2 and a half years now, picking up E2 million a year and for what exactly?? Doesn't bother going to games to scout out players, is completely rigid in his thinking and has no plan B for when plan A doesn't work. He must think Irish people are mugs, getting money for old rope. The fact that he hasn't even bothered to pick up the language to a decent level shows what contempt he has, how can you communicate to the players through a translator and get across exactly what you want???? Ridiculous!!!



TRAP OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Could we have a "No Thanks" button please?

[brine3]

He has lost only two competitive matches, against France and Russia. For a nation as small as Ireland that's good going.

While I don't always agree with his team selection, his motivational skills and his ability to train players and get more out of a team than the sum of its parts is second to none. When it comes to training and motivation, he's probably one of the best managers the game has ever seen. Yes, he can be tactically rigid and his player selection can be confusing. But on the whole, he's very good at what he does and knows what he's doing. A lesser manager might pick a starting XI I'd prefer, but he wouldn't do as well as Trap because Trap is a fantastic trainer and motivator. There's more to management than picking a starting XI, as Stan clearly demonstrated.

And still, sometimes Trap's selections can surprise me. I had never heard of Liam Lawrence. At the time, I wondered how he could pick Lawrence ahead of Stephen Hunt. Lawrence has been nothing short of a revelation for Ireland. St. Ledger, the same.

Trap is similar to Rafa Benitez. Benitez is tactically rigid, makes strange player selections but is great at training and manages to get everything out of his team. Look at Liverpool since he left. Losing 2-0 to Everton as I write this and deep in relegation territory.

Anybody who says "Trap Out" is frankly delusional.

[weldoninhio]

He has lost only two competitive matches, against France and Russia. For a nation as small as Ireland that's good going.

While I don't always agree with his team selection, his motivational skills and his ability to train players and get more out of a team than the sum of its parts is second to none. When it comes to training and motivation, he's probably one of the best managers the game has ever seen. Yes, he can be tactically rigid and his player selection can be confusing. But on the whole, he's very good at what he does and knows what he's doing. A lesser manager might pick a starting XI I'd prefer, but he wouldn't do as well as Trap because Trap is a fantastic trainer and motivator. There's more to management than picking a starting XI, as Stan clearly demonstrated.

And still, sometimes Trap's selections can surprise me. I had never heard of Liam Lawrence. At the time, I wondered how he could pick Lawrence ahead of Stephen Hunt. Lawrence has been nothing short of a revelation for Ireland. St. Ledger, the same.

Trap is similar to Rafa Benitez. Benitez is tactically rigid, makes strange player selections but is great at training and manages to get everything out of his team. Look at Liverpool since he left. Losing 2-0 to Everton as I write this and deep in relegation territory.

Anybody who says "Trap Out" is frankly delusional.

*sigh* You ever read the story of the emperors new clothes?? He was a great manager, he was a great coach, nowadays he can't even be bothered to speak the language of the team he is in control of. He is an old man making a mint off us silly paddys while living on past glories.

[SwanVsDalton]

His English is occasionally better than most Irish people's.

[brine3]

*sigh* You ever read the story of the emperors new clothes?? He was a great manager, he was a great coach, nowadays he can't even be bothered to speak the language of the team he is in control of. He is an old man making a mint off us silly paddys while living on past glories.

We were within a kick of qualifying for the World Cup in Paris, lest you forget. He got us into the playoffs and we just missed out.

Ireland has never, under any manager, won a qualifying group. Trap might be the first.

What has he done wrong? You think we should be beating everyone 3-0?

[Charlie Darwin]

One thing having a legitimate gripe with Trap's methods/selections, another throwing journalistic quality out of the window in favour of petty moaning and biased tub-thumping. The article has some decent points - pity it's wrapped in very obvious point scoring with very little reference to the reality. Ward should be included instead of the 'ludicrous' Kilbane (who played well against Russia and Slovakia)? Reid should be in despite barely playing all year? Gibson's being destroyed by Trap? Yawn.
I happen to think Andy Reid is so good he should play even when he's injured.

[SwanVsDalton]

I happen to think Andy Reid is so good he should play even when he's injured.

I feel the same about Gary Doherty.

[Eminence Grise]

Sweeney's article is just a hatchet job, an opinion piece space filler that makes up for what it lacks in facts in good old fashioned verbiage.

I think the photo ed got the picture bang on for the tone of the article: Trap with two fingers raised aloft to the great Irish football public. Maybe I've spent too long dipping in and out of semiotics, but that is a very clever juxtaposition of text and image.

Could there be some nefarious scheming in INM that sees having a go at Trap as a subtle way of having a go at the man who pays half his wages, and who is a pain in the side for the O'Reilly clan, Denis O'Brien?

[Spudulika]

Sweeney's article is just a hatchet job, an opinion piece space filler that makes up for what it lacks in facts in good old fashioned verbiage.

I think the photo ed got the picture bang on for the tone of the article: Trap with two fingers raised aloft to the great Irish football public. Maybe I've spent too long dipping in and out of semiotics, but that is a very clever juxtaposition of text and image.

Could there be some nefarious scheming in INM that sees having a go at Trap as a subtle way of having a go at the man who pays half his wages, and who is a pain in the side for the O'Reilly clan, Denis O'Brien?

Never thought of that and it could be just that simple. INM have gone after him before, as well as other "enemies", so this makes sense. Also it plays to the ignorant crowd who are swayed by lies, mistruths and poor research, aka tabloid journalism. I'm not suprised it was given to Sweeney to do, he's have a bit more gravitas as a sports writer, though some of his articles are beyond poor. I liked his Sligo Rovers book, but he's been consistently poor and often ridiculous writing for the Indo, he's trying to be the Myers of the sports section!

[osarusan]

Also, the phrase is "au fait accompli"
I don't think so. Are you sure you're not mixing it up with 'au fait' meaning 'up to date with'?

[The Fly]

I don't think so. Are you sure you're not mixing it up with 'au fait' meaning 'up to date with'?


You're correct, the phrase is expressed without the 'au' prefix.

[tetsujin1979]

I don't think so. Are you sure you're not mixing it up with 'au fait' meaning 'up to date with'?


You're correct, the phrase is expressed without the 'au' prefix.

Really? I've only seen it written "au fait accompli"

[The Fly]

This may help - http://www.phrases.org.uk/meanings/fait-accompli.html

[Charlie Darwin]

Au means "to the," so "au fait" means "to the point"

"Fait accompli" means "done deal" or literally "fact accomplished"

edit: or what Fly said

[Alf Honn]

For a nation as small as Ireland that's good going.

That excuse went out the window when Greece, with just over 2.5 times our population, won the Euro Championship six years ago. We haven't even qualified for over 20 years.

It still doesn't stop Trap's chief apologist Brady bringing it up as a defence, despite Trap having enough English Premier League players at his disposal to pick two teams.

[boovidge]

we should definitely get rid of trap.

options for his replacement are:

paul jewell
terry venables
Steve Staunton in shock return.

[EastTerracer]

He has been in the job 2 and a half years now, picking up E2 million a year and for what exactly?? Doesn't bother going to games to scout out players, is completely rigid in his thinking and has no plan B for when plan A doesn't work. He must think Irish people are mugs, getting money for old rope. The fact that he hasn't even bothered to pick up the language to a decent level shows what contempt he has, how can you communicate to the players through a translator and get across exactly what you want???? Ridiculous!!!



TRAP OUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!

First post in 4 months - at least he's dropped his Glaswegian alter-ego, Aidinhio!

[BonnieShels]

Can we wait til November 2011 and worry about it then?
The Norway game should give us a real insight as to what his plans are from March onwards...

He indicated that he would be mixing the squad around so I say we just let him get on with it. I read and listen to all of the anti-Trap stuff and I let it not cloud any judgements or criticism I may have. I suggest that the rest of ye knowledgeable and more discerning types here do the same.
The media are going to frustrate the crap out of ya due to their need to sell papers and their journo's need to be on the Last Word and Off The Ball to keep their high opinion of themselves on the go so let them at it.

At the end of the day we'll be the ones in Lansdowne next October whether the game against Armenia is meaningless or not. We'll be the ones shouting from the first til the last minute. And we will be the ones who will do the whole thing again in September 2012 when we try to qualify for Brazil 2014.

[The Fly]

That excuse went out the window when Greece, with just over 2.5 times our population, won the Euro Championship six years ago. We haven't even qualified for over 20 years.


It's hardly gone out the window, since a victory like Greece's still remains a fairly rare occurrence. One has to go back to 1992, with Denmark's victory in the tournament, to find a parallel. Denmark, with a population much more comparable to our own, had initially failed to qualify for the tournament - trailing Yugoslavia in second place.

However, due to international sanctions resulting from the Yugoslav wars, Yugoslavia was barred from the tournament, and Denmark entered as the second-placed team in its group.

Greece were 150-1 outsiders to win Euro 2004. Indeed, they had only qualified for two other major tournaments - in 1980 and 1994, and their win in the opening match in 2004 was the first time they had even won a game in a major tournament.

Needless to say, both sides were victorious playing a structured, defensive game, Greece to tedious lengths, and Denmark less so - relying on Peter Schmeichel's defence, and Brian Laudrup's creative spark. Michael Laudrup had retired from international duty during the qualification campaign.

The fact that we haven't qualified for nearly 20 years should tell you something about our status/merits as a footballing nation. Trapattoni has done well with the talents at his disposal, and we are still in with a good chance of qualifying for this tournament. The glass is half-full!



It still doesn't stop Trap's chief apologist Brady bringing it up as a defence, despite Trap having enough English Premier League players at his disposal to pick two teams.

What matters is the quality of those players, not the quantity.

[hoops1]

It still doesn't stop Trap's chief apologist Brady bringing it up as a defence, despite Trap having enough English Premier League players at his disposal to pick two teams.

Ye cant see the point of Brady being on the panel any more. He lost his impartiality because he was involved in the set up. His refusal to say anything critical about Ireland and Arsenal is farcical at this stage.

[paul_oshea]

*sigh* You ever read the story of the emperors new clothes?? He was a great manager, he was a great coach, nowadays he can't even be bothered to speak the language of the team he is in control of. He is an old man making a mint off us silly paddys while living on past glories.

Is that you from the sunday world?

[bennocelt]

Ye cant see the point of Brady being on the panel any more. He lost his impartiality because he was involved in the set up. His refusal to say anything critical about Ireland and Arsenal is farcical at this stage.

Def. and its funny how he always moaned about Big Jacks style of play yet involved himself with the current long ball set up of Traps

[Drumcondra 69er]

We were within a kick of qualifying for the World Cup in Paris, lest you forget. He got us into the playoffs and we just missed out.

Ireland has never, under any manager, won a qualifying group. Trap might be the first.

What has he done wrong? You think we should be beating everyone 3-0?

We actually topped the qualifiers for Euro 88.

But some of the posts here are nonsense, we were a missed penalty away from our best away result since 87 against Scotland, we have a number of friendlies in advance of the next qualifier to freshen up the squad and going on the last campaign new players will be introduced and embedded in the squad during the campaign. The indo nailed their colours so firmly to the VEdnables camp prior to Trap's appointment that any chance they get they'll peddle the negative line.

I can remember Ireland and Charlton being slated after drawing 0-0 at home to Belgium and Scotland in the Euro 88 qualifiers. We also went 1 down to Luxembourg at home that campaign and the knives were out. Was all forgotten at the end of the campaign, same old same old.

[paul_oshea]

Yes drumcondra, thats assuming we qualify. Its not just as simple as that.

[tommy_c12000]

Absolute disgrace. Do our country a favour and please resign now!!

[elroy]

Get real FFS will ya. It was a friendly. Not a good performance but get real. Its important not to overstate friendlies, win, lose or draw. The big games are the qualifiers against Macedonia next year that will shape 2011 for us.

[weldoninhio]

Is that you from the sunday world?

I'm not a journalist. More a realist.

[MariborKev]

I'm not a journalist. More a realist.

Neither are most of them......

[tetsujin1979]

what a shock, Ireland lose and weldoninhio makes an appearance on the forum