Squad/Team v Russia/Slovakia

[Jicked]

The only reason I'm posting this stuff is because I feel Green was fastracked into the squad and team over the likes of Gibson, and McCarthy. Gibbo might see 10 minutes thats it. Green and Kilbane will be exposed over the next 2 games.

Have to laugh at this ridiculous argument, like when people say "Ah sure Trap wouldn't know who Jon Walters even is" when he's playing a guy like Paul Green most people hadn't heard of 6 months ago.

If you actually think Gibson is being ignored in favour of a player who's been fast-tracked in to the side...can you not think back 2 years ago when Gibson was thrown in to a starting position in a big qualifier at home to Cyprus (I believe it was). Like every other performance Gibson has had in a green shirt, he was ok, didn't get close to imposing himself in an attacking sense and failed to act as the effective defensive shield that we like to operate with. If Gibson played tomorrow I've no doubt he'd get the usual 5/10 and people saying he didn't get involved enough. If he doesn't play at all and we don't win, naturally he'll ave been the man who would have got on the ball, sprayed passes around, used his impressive physical build in a destructive capacity and scored a winner from a long range shot.

[ShamrockIreland]

Have to laugh at this ridiculous argument, like when people say "Ah sure Trap wouldn't know who Jon Walters even is" when he's playing a guy like Paul Green most people hadn't heard of 6 months ago.

If you actually think Gibson is being ignored in favour of a player who's been fast-tracked in to the side...can you not think back 2 years ago when Gibson was thrown in to a starting position in a big qualifier at home to Cyprus (I believe it was). Like every other performance Gibson has had in a green shirt, he was ok, didn't get close to imposing himself in an attacking sense and failed to act as the effective defensive shield that we like to operate with. If Gibson played tomorrow I've no doubt he'd get the usual 5/10 and people saying he didn't get involved enough. If he doesn't play at all and we don't win, naturally he'll ave been the man who would have got on the ball, sprayed passes around, used his impressive physical build in a destructive capacity and scored a winner from a long range shot.

I watch all the Irish players in England Prem-Div 3 and the SPL and the LOI and I always have. I run an Irish board you have to keep on top of these things and I know exactly who is and isn't up to the job at Inernational level. Gibson has had some 50-50 performances but so has Kilbane and look how long he's in the Irish shirt. Even if he was playing in the blue square Premier he'd be picked. Gibson will make it he looks like a good player and has just taken time to grow. Green is 27 and is about a 2-10 player if Gibbo is 5-10

[Wolfie]

There's a lot of people in too much of a rush to rubbish Green.

I'd reserve judgement to see how he fares tomorrow. Personnally, I'd be happier with Andrews starting but he's just not available.

Noone will know better than Green himself that he needs to turn in the performance of his life tomorrow.

All and sundry can make a better informed judgement on Green after the game tomorrow night.

[Philly]

Team confirmed as:

Shay Given (Manchester City), John O'Shea (Manchester United), Sean St Ledger (Preston NE), Richard Dunne (Aston Villa), Kevin Kilbane (Hull City); Liam Lawrence (Portsmouth), Glenn Whelan (Stoke City), Paul Green (Derby County), Aiden McGeady (Spartak Moscow); Robbie Keane (Spurs), Kevin Doyle (Wolves).

www.fai.ie

[SwanVsDalton]

There's a lot of people in too much of a rush to rubbish Green.

I'd reserve judgement to see how he fares tomorrow. Personnally, I'd be happier with Andrews starting but he's just not available.

Noone will know better than Green himself that he needs to turn in the performance of his life tomorrow.

All and sundry can make a better informed judgement on Green after the game tomorrow night.

Agreed. Whelan got very similar criticism when he came in and he's turned into our most consistent and important midfielder imo. When he's not there, we really miss him. Here's to Green picking up his game.

[SwanVsDalton]

I watch all the Irish players in England Prem-Div 3 and the SPL and the LOI and I always have. I run an Irish board you have to keep on top of these things and I know exactly who is and isn't up to the job at Inernational level. Gibson has had some 50-50 performances but so has Kilbane and look how long he's in the Irish shirt. Even if he was playing in the blue square Premier he'd be picked. Gibson will make it he looks like a good player and has just taken time to grow. Green is 27 and is about a 2-10 player if Gibbo is 5-10

Again, as many on this thread (and elsewhere) have said, no one is really making a compelling case to replace Killer. Cunningham is too young, Ward is error prone and Delaney has disappeared. As good a servant he's been, I think it's time for Kilbane to be moved on, certainly, but not before we have a reliable player to take his place. I believe Cunningham, and perhaps Ward, will get game time in the upcoming friendlies but until then Kilbane's the best we've got and we just have to get behind him.

As for Green, I'd rather have Andrews to be honest, and possibly Gibson, but again no one is really making a case for the system Trap plays. Possibly McCarthy, but I would imagine Trap considers him too inexperienced and possibly too attack-minded to have the discipline to do the job Trap wants (protect the CB's, defend the middle). Again, expect him to be involved in the friendlies and I've no doubt if he makes a good case he'll get more chances (like Lawrence, Sledge and the others Trap have brought in).

Now at this point you can have an issue with Trap's selection policy - many do, me included - but the evidence indicates he's picked a slew of players and he has, contrary to some, blooded a lot of them into permanent squad members. I don't think that's lazy management - stubborn or entrenched, sure, but not lazy.

And his results, with what many would consider a generally middling bunch of players, back his methods. You, or others, might suggest an extra bit of attack here, a blooding of McCarthy there and we could be in the World Cup. Or winning it. But just as likely we could be back losing 5-2 to Cyprus.

No point what if-ing. We're doing OK - the squad is not perfect but is progressing and so far the results have been good. The next two games will give us the perfect chance to see how far the squad, team and manager have come but until then come on YBIG.

[Maroon 7]

There's a lot of people in too much of a rush to rubbish Green.

I'd reserve judgement to see how he fares tomorrow. Personnally, I'd be happier with Andrews starting but he's just not available.

Noone will know better than Green himself that he needs to turn in the performance of his life tomorrow.

All and sundry can make a better informed judgement on Green after the game tomorrow night.

Hopefully he does well but you would have to be a bit worried. He looked out of his depth at times against Armenia and you have to think the Russians will be a lot more clever around the middle.

[Charlie Darwin]

I wouldn't be over-critical of Green against Armenia. The Armenians were technically good, as most European nations are, but they only really went side to side which is basically the situation our midfielders are required to create. The Russians will be better but it only means Green will have to do what he does more often, not necessarily better. Better would be nice too though.

I think he misjudged a few balls and was hesitant to go into contact at times but I'd just put it down to him being a bit nervous and inexperienced (I want to say green but it's too awful a pun) at this level.

[Sullivinho]

Russians to target Kilbane:

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/soccer/russians-set-to-target-kilbane-132783.html

Ooh, crafty.

Regarding Paul Green, I think he froze in the Armenia game. Shellshock from the first whistle. Can't make much in the way of observation when Andorra is the opposition but tomorrow should be the pudding from which the proof is derived.

[geysir]

It would be no big earth shattering revelation to Trap or Killer, if Russia use their speedy winger to make waves down the right.
I assume McGeady will be targeting a path around their full back, that hardly bears a mention because it is so obvious.

[Charlie Darwin]

Lads, worrying news. It looks like Glenn Whelan has defected to the Russians. Trapattoni will surely freeze him out after this.

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01734/arshavin_1734613c.jpg

[elroy]

think it was Armenia? he's definitely on a yellow anyway, which was why he was substituted against Andorra, to keep him available for Russia

It was Dunne who picked up a needless yellow card against Andorra.

[Supreme feet]

Any chance you've saved the list? It'd be interesting to see.

I have indeed, I scribbled it down longhand though, so when I'm bored in work later on I'll put it up

... and here it is.

List of players Trapattoni has called into the Irish squad since May 2008:

Goalkeepers: Given, Kiely (retired), Westwood, Joe Murphy, Brian Murphy, Colin Doyle.

Full-backs: Finnan (retired), O'Shea, McShane, Kelly, Coleman, Foley, Kilbane, Delaney, Nolan, Cunningham, Ward.

Centre-backs: Dunne, St. Ledger, Bruce, O'Dea, Duffy, Paddy McCarthy.

Central midfielders: Whelan, Steven Reid (retired), Miller, McPhail, Rowlands, Potter, Garvan, Joey O'Brien, Gibson, Andrews, Wilson, Meyler, James McCarthy, Green.

Wide midfielders: Duff, McGeady, Stephen Hunt, Houlihan, Andy Reid, Lawrence, Treacy

Strikers: Keane, Kevin Doyle, Keogh, Long, Daryl Murphy, Scannell, Noel Hunt, Best, Folan, Stokes, Sheridan.

55 in total.

[paul_oshea]

Swan costing us 4 points is certainly a compelling case to be replaced. how worse can anyone else do? Against armenia had that been a decent side with a decent right winger they would have put us away.

[paul_oshea]

It would be no big earth shattering revelation to Trap or Killer, if Russia use their speedy winger to make waves down the right.
I assume McGeady will be targeting a path around their full back, that hardly bears a mention because it is so obvious.

yes but is their full back as poor as our full back, we use mcgeady because of his speed and trickery, they use their right winger because of kilbane.

[shakermaker1982]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/07/russia-ireland-euro-2012-qualifiers

It's only a little over two years since Russia beat Holland in the Euro 2008 quarter-final. It was the best non-Spanish performance of the tournament, and has arguably been the best performance by any international side other than Spain in the past five years. As fans celebrated in the streets of Moscow it seemed the match could be an epoch-defining moment, when Russian football, at last, came of age. CSKA and Zenit St Petersburg had won the Uefa Cup, the national side had shown itself capable of the sort of rapid pass-and-move football for which Russian teams were noted in the late 1940s, and Vladimir Putin was speaking of "a golden age of Russian sport".

Since then, though, Russia have failed to qualify for a World Cup and, having been defeated in their last qualifier at home by Slovakia, there is a serious possibility that they may not qualify for Euro 2012. The away double-header against the Republic of Ireland and FYR Macedonia always looked tricky but now appears vital. "Both matches will be very difficult but we are ready for tough battles," said Dick Advocaat, who replaced Guus Hiddink as the national coach after the World Cup qualifying campaign. "From now on every match will be a decisive battle for us. We lost to Slovakia at home, now we have no other choice but to win in away matches."

The ghosts of that World Cup campaign continue to haunt Russia. They played well enough in the group games, and finished as runners-up after two narrow defeats by Germany, setting up a play-off against Slovenia. It was as they swept into a 2-0 lead in the first leg, though, that expectation mutated into complacency. Nejc Pecnik nicked a late goal for Slovenia and when Zlatko Dedic then scored the only goal of the second leg in Maribor, Russia were out on away goals.

While they hadn't played well, Russia had been unlucky in that second game, having Alexander Kerzhakov sent off for an innocuous challenge on the Slovenia goalkeeper, Samir Handanovic. Other issues, however, stood out. First there was the Sergei Semak factor – both Russia goals were scored when he was on the pitch; both Slovenia ones when he wasn't. His form has been enough to earn a move to Zenit St Petersburg from Rubin Kazan – and he should this season complete a hat-trick of league titles – but at 34 his international career appears over and it's unclear whether Russia have found a replacement at the back of the midfield.

The explanation that has dominated Russian media coverage of the national team since, though, has suggested that a number of players went drinking in the days before the game. The reports have never been confirmed but they add to a general sense of players – particularly those who have moved to western Europe – getting above themselves, neglecting the industriousness and professionalism that underlay their performances in Euro 2008.

Of course every nation, after a couple of poor results, tends to question how much wealthy footballers really care. But the feeling that the players are moving away from their roots is probably more acute in Russia, which had never previously had to deal with large numbers of their players moving abroad, than elsewhere. Whether based in reality or not, the doubts have led to an atmosphere of mutual suspicion between squad and press that is only adding to tensions. Hiddink tended to be fairly open but Advocaat has reduced media activities to a minimum and shifted the players from their former base in the Moscow Marriott to the Radisson, which lacks the communal areas where players and journalists used to mix. Andrey Arshavin, in particular, has come in for criticism, with many suggesting he lacks the leadership qualities necessary in a captain.

Advocaat insists that not much is wrong with the team. "In the match against Slovakia we were the better side and it was Russia who deserved the win," he said. "We should continue playing our style in the upcoming matches, controlling play and forcing our opponents to adjust to our style, not vice versa. That's the key to success in the upcoming matches."

He has recalled Kerzhakov, who is in a run of astonishing form and has scored eight goals (one a penalty) in his last four club matches, including a hat-trick away at Anderlecht in the Europa League. There has been much excited talk about him replacing Pavel Pogrebnyak (although he has five in five for a struggling Stuttgart this season) and lining up with Arshavin, and so reprising a partnership that was once devastating for Zenit.

With Advocaat seemingly committed to 4-3-3, though, they would not be a partnership in the traditional sense. It was not uncommon for them to operate as part of a three at Zenit but if that is to happen there is need for natural width on the right. At Zenit that used to be provided by Vladimir Bystrov, who is now back in form after his traumatic return to St Petersburg. (He was seen as having betrayed Zenit by joining Spartak, and then as having betrayed Spartak by rejoining Zenit, meaning he was hated by two sets of fans who usually hate each other.) He seems likely to come in on the right ahead of Alan Dzagoev, who is more comfortable in a central attacking midfield role that doesn't exist in Advocaat's formation. That is why many in Russia would prefer to see a switch to 4-2-3-1, with Arshavin, Dzagoev and Bystrov arrayed behind a lone striker.

The real weakness – leaving aside the potential for comic slip-ups always presented by the selection of one or both of the Berezutsky twins (although with Denis Kolodin injured, there are few options alongside Sergei Ignashevich) – is the midfield. Roman Shirokov will presumably again be flanked by Konstantin Zyryanov and Igor Semshov, but while all are fine ball players, none has the energy or aggression of Semak. CSKA's Pavel Mamayev has been called up in place of Dmitri Torbinsky, who is short of match fitness, but it would be a major surprise were he to start.

Four years ago Hiddink's Russia, after a nervy start to qualifying, went to Skopje with a side that was heavy on ball-players and short on ball-winners and played superbly to win 2-0, raising self-belief for what followed. This double-header in Dublin and Skopje has taken on a similar aura of significance.

[elroy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/blog/2010/oct/07/russia-ireland-euro-2012-qualifiers



The real weakness – leaving aside the potential for comic slip-ups always presented by the selection of one or both of the Berezutsky twins (although with Denis Kolodin injured, there are few options alongside Sergei Ignashevich) – is the midfield. Roman Shirokov will presumably again be flanked by Konstantin Zyryanov and Igor Semshov, but while all are fine ball players, none has the energy or aggression of Semak. CSKA's Pavel Mamayev has been called up in place of Dmitri Torbinsky, who is short of match fitness, but it would be a major surprise were he to start.

Four years ago Hiddink's Russia, after a nervy start to qualifying, went to Skopje with a side that was heavy on ball-players and short on ball-winners and played superbly to win 2-0, raising self-belief for what followed. This double-header in Dublin and Skopje has taken on a similar aura of significance.

Good to see that their apparent weakness is midfield. Its not exactly our strong area either.

[shakermaker1982]

Has anybody watched Russia since Dick took over? (If anybody has then it's Edmundo!!!) When they say 4-3-3 is it a proper 4-3-3 or do the wide players get back and make it 4-5-1 when defending? I'm hoping it's the former because if they do only play 3 in midfield then at least we'll outnumber them in midfield. My main worry tonight is that they will hog the ball like Bulgaria did in Dublin. Our reliance on 4-4-2 does mean we struggle when we come up against teams with 5 in midfield.

[ShamrockIreland]

Swan costing us 4 points is certainly a compelling case to be replaced. how worse can anyone else do? Against armenia had that been a decent side with a decent right winger they would have put us away.

Excellent point OShea we should have an option already blooded for that position. Otherwise use JOS as a LB and Foley as our RB. KIller has cost us dearly over the years. It just sentiment that is making people who adore him want him to play on there. He was never a left back to begin with.