Squad/Team v Russia/Slovakia

[Noelys Guitar]

Can't see many if any surprises. Not impressed with Walters today but he is now playing in the Premiership and for me is a better player than Keogh but still unlikely to be called into the squad at this time. Ward imploded after an excellent 70 mins for Wolves. Felt sorry for him and thought he had gotten the craziness out of his game this season. He was excellent for the whole game against Everton away but the peno and ball given away for Spurs second goal will probably scupper any chance of a call up. Wilson did not play today so unlikely to feature. McCarthy probably won't be called up either. So the starting eleven for the Russia game barring injuries is probably going to be
Given
O'Shea Dunne St Ledger Kilbane
McGeady/Lawerence Whelan Andrews Duff
Keane Doyle

Good to see Arshavin taken off today after a poor performance. Will still be a very dangerous player against us but not firing on all cyclinders yet and hopefully he stays that way for the next month or so. Of all the irish players available in the premiership I would still have Andy Reid in the Squad. This is going to **** off loads but he changes games and can still play a killer ball. My one and only only critisism of Trap.

[rebelmusic]

I dont expect any changes from the last 2 games barring injuries. And of course duffer coming back. I dont actually think andrews will start, hasnt played at all this year and i don't think he will before that game either. I think Gibson is still a better option personally, we'll see if he starts tomorrow.

Still annoyed about the LB position though. JOSH can play there no trouble at all, and we have 2 decent premier league starters in Foley/Kelly. Makes no sense for me to have Kilbane, who isnt getting his game for a team that could be playing league 1 next season, starting a crucial game like this.

[Noelys Guitar]

I dont expect any changes from the last 2 games barring injuries. And of course duffer coming back. I dont actually think andrews will start, hasnt played at all this year and i don't think he will before that game either. I think Gibson is still a better option personally, we'll see if he starts tomorrow.

Still annoyed about the LB position though. JOSH can play there no trouble at all, and we have 2 decent premier league starters in Foley/Kelly. Makes no sense for me to have Kilbane, who isnt getting his game for a team that could be playing league 1 next season, starting a crucial game like this.
How Bad is Andrews injury? I thought he would be back in Two weeks? Then Green is going to start against Russia. Scary on many levels. He is simply not good enough for this type of game and will be exposed. I championed him after his first few games but his limitations are really begining to show. Gibson won't get the nod and I'm not convinced he can change or control a game of this magnitude from the bench ie coming on as a sub. I trust Trap's judgement and it will be interesting to see the squad selected.

[Colbert Report]

Still annoyed about the LB position though. JOSH can play there no trouble at all,

I don't know why people think this about John O'Shea. He can't play left back.

[Stuttgart88]

McCarthy and Wilson are the newbies I'd most like to see called up, possibly Walters as cover.

Lack of game time or form is a big worry for over half our regulars. Full backs and Whelan's partner in CM are biggest concerns.

[mark12345]

"I trust Trap's judgement and it will be interesting to see the squad selected."

Would have agreed with you before the current campaign, but, sad as I am to say it, I think Trap is past his best for Ireland. I think there are mittigating circumstances in him not calling up players - ie. he doesn't get to see players as often as he should and he doesn't have Brady's experience of the English game and help in breaking the language barrier any more. But even so nothing in the world can explain him picking Kilbane and McShane time and again.

[rebelmusic]

I don't know why people think this about John O'Shea. He can't play left back.
You think Kilbane is a better option there? Really?

I'd still love to see Ward there, he makes the most sense. But yesterday's game would have really damaged his chances.

I'd like to compile all PL starters later and see what team we have based on them. Only player im 100% comfy from the championship is Lawrence. Sledge still hasn't convinced me the his dunne partnership is better than the dunne/o'shea one

[tetsujin1979]

I'd like to compile all PL starters later and see what team we have based on them.
From yesterday's games or total starts in the Premiership this season?

[rebelmusic]

This weekend would be interesting to compare - i'll do it this evening after the all ireland (assuming i can find a stream from egypt!)

[Predator]

"I trust Trap's judgement and it will be interesting to see the squad selected."

Would have agreed with you before the current campaign, but, sad as I am to say it, I think Trap is past his best for Ireland. I think there are mittigating circumstances in him not calling up players - ie. he doesn't get to see players as often as he should and he doesn't have Brady's experience of the English game and help in breaking the language barrier any more. But even so nothing in the world can explain him picking Kilbane and McShane time and again.I can see why Trapattoni persists in his selection of Kilbane and McShane. Regardless of their ability, they're both dedicated professionals who have plenty of experience and they both know Trap's system.

[TrapAPony]

"I trust Trap's judgement and it will be interesting to see the squad selected."

Would have agreed with you before the current campaign, but, sad as I am to say it, I think Trap is past his best for Ireland. I think there are mittigating circumstances in him not calling up players - ie. he doesn't get to see players as often as he should and he doesn't have Brady's experience of the English game and help in breaking the language barrier any more. But even so nothing in the world can explain him picking Kilbane and McShane time and again.

Would actually agree with this. He is not doing enough to bring new players through (McCarthy, Wilson, Coleman, Stokes, Walters, Ward etc.) and won't look at others ie. Kevin Foley (been in squads but never given a chance), Andy Reid etc. Some of his squad selections are strange to say the least where he continues to pick some very limited players. Trap is untouchable at club level but certainly not at International IMO.

[geysir]

. Sledge still hasn't convinced me the his dunne partnership is better than the dunne/o'shea one
It isn't a question of whether Dunne /St.Ledger is the best partnership, but a competent enough one to allow Josh to play RB.

[Charlie Darwin]

There's no way Foley is getting anywhere near the Ireland team. Trap will have watched yesterday's game at White Hart Lane and seen him miraculously stay on the pitch after diving in twice on Bale. These are the silly mistakes that Trap always talks about, the ones that have led us to concede goals in the past. Ward was guilty of even worse when he gave away the penalty. Dunne used to have a similar tendency but he's a far more talented player than either and has managed to cut it down considerably. I think if Kelly keeps his starting spot for Fulham he will be a serious option at full back for us - miles ahead of Foley at this stage.

[Lenny82]

Not expecting any changes or surprises in this squad and fully expect McShane and Kilbane to be named in all Trap's squads in this campaign as long as they are fit regardless of their situation at club level. McShane will get games at Hull and Kilbane has so much international "experience" that Trap's decision to include them will be justified in his opinion.

Hopefully we see some new players get game time in the November friendly and if they continue to get game time at club level, they could find themselves included in the Macedonia squad next March. Coleman, Ward, Wilson, McCarthy, Stokes and possibly Walters to name but a few.

[tetsujin1979]

This weekend would be interesting to compare - i'll do it this evening after the all ireland (assuming i can find a stream from egypt!)
done and done
Total starts for Irish Players in the Premier League so far this season


Player Name Home Starts Away Starts Total Starts
James McCarthy 4 1 5
Richard Dunne 3 2 5
John O'Shea 3 2 5
Stephen Carr 2 3 5
Kevin Foley 2 3 5
Stephen Ward 2 3 5
Rory Delap 2 2 4
Damien Duff 1 3 4
Stephen Kelly 1 3 4
Kevin Doyle 1 3 4
Jonathan Walters 2 1 3
Stephen Ireland 1 1 2
Robbie Keane 1 0 1
Marc Wilson 1 0 1
Andy O'Brien 0 1 1
Glenn Whelan 0 1 1
Keith Fahey 0 1 1

[rebelmusic]

So...no keeper, but that spot has never been up for debate

Based on PL starts

----------------Given
Kelly-----Dunne-----O'Shea------Ward

Fahey----Whelan---McCarthy----Duff
---------------Doyle
---------------Keane


Typical Trap team

----------------Given
O'Shea-----Dunne-----Sledge------Kilbane

Lawrence----Whelan---Green----Duff
---------------Doyle
---------------Keane


Same old story, Whelan's partner and left-full. Altho i spose in fairness we are basically shagged for the left-full position. Ward is decent...but he's not amazing either in fairness.

[SkStu]

agree overall on your opinion of Ward. He has a tendency to lose concentration on occasion BUT he has done more on form over the last 18 months to warrant a squad place at LB ahead of Cunningham, Nolan and Kilbane (not a slight on Kilbane just that Ward has more form on him at LB over the last year or more) and anyone else Trap has looked at for the LB spot.

[Junior]

I think if Kelly keeps his starting spot for Fulham he will be a serious option at full back for us - miles ahead of Foley at this stage.

Playing LB at the moment for Fulham as well, which is no bad thing for Ireland as that is our weaker FB position. Interestingly, Pantsil has started the season very poorly for Fulham at RB (World Cup hangover?) so Kelly might get a run there also (They have signed a South American LB I believe but he's not fit or has visa issues or something).

[TrapAPony]

Playing LB at the moment for Fulham as well, which is no bad thing for Ireland as that is our weaker FB position. Interestingly, Pantsil has started the season very poorly for Fulham at RB (World Cup hangover?) so Kelly might get a run there also (They have signed a South American LB I believe but he's not fit or has visa issues or something).

Carlos Salcido from Mexico is the guy you are talking about I presume? He played left back at the weekend while Stephen Kelly played at right back ahead of Pantsil.

[Junior]

Cheers for that, haven't had chance to check out yesterdays games yet.

Central American / South American / Canadian they're all the same to me ;)

[rebelmusic]

I agree on Ward being the best choice, just if Trap watches the DVD of the tottenham game his chances will be reduced. It's a no brainer though, we have one left back playing week in and out in the premier league and he's not being selected probably because he missed some training camps. Those camps are where Trap instills his system in the player's minds so the importance of them can't be underestimated.

[Colbert Report]

I'd much rather have Kilbane than Ward in at left back, at least you know what you're getting. I haven't been impressed at all by Ward, he looks like a total joker the few times I've seen him play.

[Closed Account]

No Suprises

Shay Given
Keiren Westwood
Joe Murphy

John O’Shea
Richard Dunne
Sean St Ledger
Greg Cunningham
Kevin Foley
Stephen Kelly
Paul McShane
Darren O’Dea
Kevin Kilbane

Keith Andrews
Glenn Whelan
Darron Gibson
Paul Green
Liam Lawrence
Aiden McGeady
Andy Keogh
Damien Duff
Keith Fahey
Keith Treacy

Robbie Keane
Kevin Doyle
Shane Long
Cillian Sheridan

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=101273:trapattoni-names-26-man-preliminary-list-for-qualifiers&catid=1:senior-men&Itemid=8

[greendeiseboy]

I'd love to know what the situation is with regard to McCarthy given that he' s a regular in the Premiership and also what's going on with Wilson and Coleman.

Surely these lads are every bit as good if not better than Long, Keogh, Green and O'Dea.

I'm seriously concerned about McCarthy at this stage.

We need to be giving these lads experience.

[Charlie Darwin]

I'm not sure you're comparing like with like there - O'Dea is a centre half who can play left full, unlike any of the players you've mentioned that are omitted.

I'm not worried about Coleman not being in the squad. I think his chances of breaking into the Everton team are better if he stays at home, even though Trap could surely give him a few tips to improve his defending. McCarthy and Wilson are paying the price for missing friendlies and training camps - the manager has never brought new players in for a competitive match, so it's true to form that they'll have to wait for the next friendly (if fit) to impress.

[bwagner]

Andrews an injured player named - shocked to my core ! not
The wheels will fall off after these two games bug time
Green is NOT an international footballer , its so embrassing that he wont he call in regular premier league players( Mc Carthy, Coleman , Ward, Delap etc)
and no one please mutter on that they are not expericened enough GREEN was not experienced ands he threw him in because "he can tackle and break up play " we shouldnt have to break up play we should be the ones trying to play football not anti footnall
Trap is a over payed jumped up old fool

[Roo69]

There's no way Foley is getting anywhere near the Ireland team. Trap will have watched yesterday's game at White Hart Lane and seen him miraculously stay on the pitch after diving in twice on Bale. These are the silly mistakes that Trap always talks about, the ones that have led us to concede goals in the past. Ward was guilty of even worse when he gave away the penalty. Dunne used to have a similar tendency but he's a far more talented player than either and has managed to cut it down considerably. I think if Kelly keeps his starting spot for Fulham he will be a serious option at full back for us - miles ahead of Foley at this stage.

It was a bit unlucky, Hutton actually had a really bad last touch before Ward went in, it brought the ball towards Ward, he thought he could get it but Hutton was that split second faster. I think if Hutton's touch had of been better and not bought the ball slighty towards Ward he would not ave tried to make the challenge.

[greendeiseboy]

I'm not sure you're comparing like with like there - O'Dea is a centre half who can play left full, unlike any of the players you've mentioned that are omitted.

I'm not worried about Coleman not being in the squad. I think his chances of breaking into the Everton team are better if he stays at home, even though Trap could surely give him a few tips to improve his defending. McCarthy and Wilson are paying the price for missing friendlies and training camps - the manager has never brought new players in for a competitive match, so it's true to form that they'll have to wait for the next friendly (if fit) to impress.

I'm not comparing like with like - what I'm saying is how can players who are better be left out while others can get into to the squad.

Cunningham is another with dubious credentials i.e. cant even get on the bench at City- so there's your Coleman argument gone.

So bloody what if they missed the training camps - they proved that they were not fit at the time - they're available now and on merit should be in the squad.

Trappatoni often uses the argument if they're not playing regular football then they wont be in the squad so he's contradicting himself.

Maybe I'll be proved wrong but if we dont get at least 3 points from the next two games a lot of people will be asking questions.

The performances against Armenia and Andorra were at best average and for a lot of the time poor. OK we got the 6 points but if we play like that against better teams we'll be found out.

[Charlie Darwin]

It was a bit unlucky, Hutton actually had a really bad last touch before Ward went in, it brought the ball towards Ward, he thought he could get it but Hutton was that split second faster. I think if Hutton's touch had of been better and not bought the ball slighty towards Ward he would not ave tried to make the challenge.
But that's the definition of a bad tackle - misjudging your chances of getting to the ball and diving in.


I'm not comparing like with like - what I'm saying is how can players who are better be left out while others can get into to the squad.

Cunningham is another with dubious credentials i.e. cant even get on the bench at City- so there's your Coleman argument gone.

So bloody what if they missed the training camps - they proved that they were not fit at the time - they're available now and on merit should be in the squad.

Trappatoni often uses the argument if they're not playing regular football then they wont be in the squad so he's contradicting himself.

Maybe I'll be proved wrong but if we dont get at least 3 points from the next two games a lot of people will be asking questions.

The performances against Armenia and Andorra were at best average and for a lot of the time poor. OK we got the 6 points but if we play like that against better teams we'll be found out.
But they're not going to play anyway. At least in the friendlies they have a decent shout of seeing game time. I would have had McCarthy and Wilson in earlier squads too but we all know how Trap works and they were never going to be brought in for a competitive game ahead of other guys who've done the course and know the system.

[IsMiseSean]

Squad as expected... I think the Norway friendly we'll see some of the new faces.

[Roo69]

But that's the definition of a bad tackle - misjudging your chances of getting to the ball and diving in.

I know what you saying but there is a difference in badly mistiming a challenge and a player miscontrolling the ball and leaving the door open for a challenge. It's not as if he does it week in/week out.

[greendeiseboy]

But that's the definition of a bad tackle - misjudging your chances of getting to the ball and diving in.


But they're not going to play anyway. At least in the friendlies they have a decent shout of seeing game time. I would have had McCarthy and Wilson in earlier squads too but we all know how Trap works and they were never going to be brought in for a competitive game ahead of other guys who've done the course and know the system.

A lot of the squad wont play either and dont have the potential that some of those omitted have.

Surely the time for these players to get the experience is to be involved with the competitive squads where they'll be at the coalface and not in friendly squads where the atmosphere is bound to be more relaxed.

My opinion is that since Brady has left the setup the scouting has gone to pot and Trap is taking a lazy approach to squad selection and eyeing up new players.

[bwagner]

i think we r gona be routed by both these teams . russia will be very eager to make amends and Slovakia are at a all time high, It was the same crap under Kerr lazy picking routine and no element of surprise, the attack and midfield are so toothless and well known that no half decent side would fear playing us.

[TrapAPony]

Squad as expected... I think the Norway friendly we'll see some of the new faces.

I doubt Trap will pick too many new players for Norway. I think that he will pick the exact same squad as the one above while rubbishing on about keeping this winning mentality BS.

[SkStu]

I doubt Trap will pick too many new players for Norway. I think that he will pick the exact same squad as the one above while rubbishing on about keeping this winning mentality BS.

exactly what i was going to say. Trappatoni doesnt make changes for friendlies. Its a bit ridiculous at this stage. Paul effing Green.

[geysir]

Should Andrews be unfit, Green is the only player that I would have alongside Whelan for these 2 games.
Possibly Josh, but anybody else in there means a free fast lane through CM for the opposition, space which even Andorra could exploit.
Green has a defined job to do and he does it well enough, at least better than anybody else would. He fits in there like a glove. He is made for our team. Howl at the moon all you want.

[Razors left peg]

Andrews an injured player named - shocked to my core ! not
The wheels will fall off after these two games bug time
Green is NOT an international footballer , its so embrassing that he wont he call in regular premier league players( Mc Carthy, Coleman , Ward, Delap etc)
and no one please mutter on that they are not expericened enough GREEN was not experienced ands he threw him in because "he can tackle and break up play " we shouldnt have to break up play we should be the ones trying to play football not anti footnall
Trap is a over payed jumped up old fool

Coleman has never started a Premiership game

[greendeiseboy]

Should Andrews be unfit, Green is the only player that I would have alongside Whelan for these 2 games.
Possibly Josh, but anybody else in there means a free fast lane through CM for the opposition, space which even Andorra could exploit.
Green has a defined job to do and he does it well enough, at least better than anybody else would. He fits in there like a glove. He is made for our team. Howl at the moon all you want.

Are you serious?

Andorra did exploit and only for poor finishing Armenia would have done the same.

You make a good point tho for John O'Shea to be utilised in this position.

But i dont think Green comes near McCarthy, Wilson, Ward and for that matter Andy Reid.

[TrapAPony]

Coleman has never started a Premiership game

Neither has Paul Green.

[SkStu]

Coleman has never started a Premiership game

he said regular premier league players. Didnt mention starters anywhere.

[bwagner]

Coleman has never started a Premiership game

Bla Bla Bla
Neither has St.Ledger !

[SkStu]

Should Andrews be unfit, Green is the only player that I would have alongside Whelan for these 2 games.
Possibly Josh, but anybody else in there means a free fast lane through CM for the opposition, space which even Andorra could exploit.
Green has a defined job to do and he does it well enough, at least better than anybody else would. He fits in there like a glove. He is made for our team. Howl at the moon all you want.

keep banging that Trappatoni drum.

"better than anybody else"? Crazy talk.

[Razors left peg]

I agree that Green isnt good enough but Im happy with the way the group has started so Im not gonna start bitching about the squad at this stage

[TrapAPony]

I agree that Green isnt good enough but Im happy with the way the group has started so Im not gonna start bitching about the squad at this stage

Anything less than beating Armenia and Andorra would have been hugely embarrassing. However, the Slovakia & Russia games are going to tell an awful alot about where we are right now.

[Charlie Darwin]

I know what you saying but there is a difference in badly mistiming a challenge and a player miscontrolling the ball and leaving the door open for a challenge. It's not as if he does it week in/week out.
Yeah but how many penalties have Ireland given away in the last 2.5 years? For all of KK's obvious limitations, he's a very disciplined player.


A lot of the squad wont play either and dont have the potential that some of those omitted have.

Surely the time for these players to get the experience is to be involved with the competitive squads where they'll be at the coalface and not in friendly squads where the atmosphere is bound to be more relaxed.

My opinion is that since Brady has left the setup the scouting has gone to pot and Trap is taking a lazy approach to squad selection and eyeing up new players.
The difference is the players in the squad could step in for frontline players and essentially do the same job. McCarthy, Wilson and Coleman haven't been in squads before so they don't have the experience of Trap's rigid system.


exactly what i was going to say. Trappatoni doesnt make changes for friendlies. Its a bit ridiculous at this stage. Paul effing Green.
Surely Green was a change made for a friendly?

[Razors left peg]

Anything less than beating Armenia and Andorra would have been hugely embarrassing. However, the Slovakia & Russia games are going to tell an awful alot about where we are right now.

Andorra yes, but winning away in Armenia was a very good result considering some of their results at home in recent years

[SkStu]

Surely Green was a change made for a friendly?

friendlies that were part of the career defining training camps.

[TrapAPony]

Andorra yes, but winning away in Armenia was a very good result considering some of their results at home in recent years

We even managed to concede against Andorra. Not many teams can brag about that one. IMO not beating Armenia would have been a disaster.

[Razors left peg]

We even managed to concede against Andorra. A draw against Armenia would have been a disaster IMO.

yeah it was sloppy to give a goal away against Andorra and we should have scored more but its not just under Trap that we havent hammered weak teams. We always seem to drop to the level of the opposition for years now.

Anyway, we can argue about the merits of the squad all we want but if we get 4 or 6 points from these 2 games then it will have been justified.

[Charlie Darwin]

friendlies that were part of the career defining training camps.
Of the current frontline players, Lawrence, Green, Andrews and St. Ledger were all brought in mid-campaign for friendlies. He's not very adventurous in his choice of player but I see no reason why he wouldn't bring in Wilson to compete with similar-minded players like Andrews and Whelan.