Marathon

[passinginterest]

Any runners out there?

The girlfriend has got it into her head that she wants to do the marathon in 11 weeks time to raise money for MD which one of her good friends, who passed away recently, suffered from.

Would it even be possible for her to get through it with approximately 10 weeks training, considering she's coming from a base of zero?

Once she gets an idea into her head it's very hard to talk her out of it! I think she'd be better of starting a training programme now with a view to doing next years. :question:

[pineapple stu]

Would it even be possible for her to get through it with approximately 10 weeks training, considering she's coming from a base of zero?
It really depends on what you expect. The nearest I've come to doing a marathon is one leg of the Cork marathon - 5.3 miles - based on a conversation the night before. I jogged bits and walked the rest (did it in 1:09, which wasn't bad at all, I thought). So I'm sure it's possible to finish a full one on reasonably little training provided you're sensible about what you can do - you might take eight hours, but you should get around. Bear in mind too that it's actually really boring; particularly over a longer distance like a marathon, it's a mental as well as a physical test. Also, the slower you are, the less likely you are to get water on the way around.

Aberdonian Stu has done plenty though - which you, shall we say, wouldn't guess from looking at him - and is doing this year's one again, so he'll give you better advice.

[Aberdonian Stu]

10 or 11 weeks of prep is fine so long as she doesn't plan on running too much of it.

There are a few underlying factors she should look at which you/her could do well to think about (as I'm not going to ask you for personal details online, well at least not on this website).

1. What's her general level of fitness? And I mean fitness not weight, would she be knackered after running a mile for example?
2. Injuries, has she any underlying leg or back issues?

While I emphasised fitness over weight that's more because I know some incredibly unfit thin people. Overweight people, like myself, do have the extra burden of forcing more load onto their joints, thus increasing impact and pain etc.

If she has a good level of total fitness as of now, as in before she starts prepping, than realistically running 5/6 miles of the 26 isn't unthinkable. Just dear God don't let her think of doing them consecutively. If she alternates between running and walking (1st mile run, 2nd mile walk, 3rd mile run etc) and walks the rest that would be doing pretty well.

Personally I would suggest she walks the whole thing if its her first unless she's comfortable with her fitness. Well not quite the whole thing. One thing I always do is at every mile marker, as they are easy to spot landmarks, I run for 50 to 100 yards. It's a fairly simple reason. You use different muscles when you run as to when you walk so those short jogs loosen you up a little.

I'll try to post a more detailed response tonight or tomorrow as it's that time of year when people have questions about marathons and my, um, unique physical traits mean I'm well placed from the side of someone who knows the bad bits to help out.

If you want to PM me feel free with any questions feel free and I can go into more specific detail.

[bennocelt]

How many marathons have you ran Aber Stu?

[Mad Moose]

I've always been a runner and until the last 3 years since moving to England I considered myself a lazy runner. I've competed at varying levels since moving here which started off as running at work in Ipswich and competing in a series of five friday 5 mile runs at various Suffolk towns. Since then I've moved onto 10k runs and my longest run to date is the worlds first Kilomathon (26km/16.3 miles) from Nottingham to Derby. That one hurt alot though I ran quite well and was happy with my time. I've pushed it on and have half marathon's in Budapest and Amsterdam this year. I have applied for a place in the London marathon 2011.

I guess the advice i'd give and you may get from above is start off at comfortable distance and work your way up. I've struggled with serious injuries and so I've varied in fitness. If your doing a marathon I'd expect a good level of running fitness and give yourself a year training on top of that. I'm comfortable and strong at half marathon distance and I'm still taking a year to give a marathon a good shot.

You want to enjoy a marathon and 11 weeks is not a realistic time frame to prepare. My 16 mile run from Nottingham to Derby was for a hospice for terminally ill children and young people. I raised quite alot of money and it encouraged me in the run. The last thing I wanted was to raise money for a cause and not have it in me to compete.

On top of that she needs to look after her health. A marathon is not to be taken lightly.

[Aberdonian Stu]

How many marathons have you ran Aber Stu?

I've done 5 to date but 'ran' only parts of them. Most I ever ran in one was 7 miles, I walk the rest. I also walked 500 miles in 28 days last year (well a little over, averaged about 20 miles a day). I love doing marathons, they hurt like hell but so long as you're not an eejit they aren't dangerous. I know a lot of people are nervous before them, heck I still get nervous before every one I do, but once you're under way it's generally grand. It's all about knowing your limits and not being stupid.

[passinginterest]

Thanks for all the advice, I'll pass it on. If I can get my shin splints sorted I'd consider giving a try next year myself.

[Stuttgart88]

I've been running & doing triathlons for years. I stepped up to Marathon distance last October (Dublin) and struggled, despite having trained well. However, I rarely went over 18 miles in training & I completely underestimated that last 6 miles. Also, I entered the race with a specific time target in mind, which I missed. I picked up a cold 3 days before the race and this was a factor, but so too was not putting in enough long runs.

If her goal is simply to finish rather than achieve a time target then I'd say 11 weeks is just doable as long as, as Stu recommends, she walks at regular intervals during the race. I personally think 6 months is the approx. required period to start from scratch - but this would require diligence and would run the risk of permanently deterring one from running ever again! It'd be far preferable to run for a year, building slowly and developing a love for it. I can't pass a trail, or a canal tow path or a park without plotting a running route incorporating it. Regardless of the distance, pick interesting and scenic routes as this makes it far more fun than just doing repetitions of the same block all the time.

www.runnersworld.com is a great source of training tips & programs. The book "Run Less Run Faster" by the FIRST institute (it's on Amazon) is very good although the programmes it prescribes are for experienced distance runners looking to improve rather than beginners. However, the early chapters are very good at describing the science behind distance running, introducing the key concepts of VO2 max, lactate threshold, endurance and running economy. Only by improving all of these components of your overall fitness can you improve as a distance runner and the book shows you how to improve each and for this alone I'd recommend it.

The good news is that it doesn't prescribe huge weekly mileage like most other programmes - in fact it recommends only running 3 times a week, cycling or swimming 2 or 3 times also.


If she already has a good base then it's a different story.

[Mad Moose]

Just booked my place for Marathon de Paris 2011. Takes place 2 weeks before London so if I get my London place I'll defer it it until the following year. Only a half an hour to go but registration for Paris opened today for the first 9,000 entrants at the lowest price. I was 4,085 or so so a few places left if anyone wanted something amazing to plan for.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Best of luck.

[passinginterest]

Just to update seeing as I started the thread, she decided against the Marathon and will be walking on hot coals instead. The shorter distance was the clincher :D

[Aberdonian Stu]

Ah yeah, I've heard that's great craic. A few friends of mine have done it before.

[Mad Moose]

Running is quite strange. I did a half marathon in Budapest a week and a half ago. Now having done that distance a few times I didn't have any real concerns other than I might not feel great on the day. Beautiful city, beautiful event and beautiful weather. I thought my training deserved a more comfortable run but 2/3's the way around I told myself I'm not ready for a marathon. Once I crossed the line and warmed down and chilled out I wanted to do more again. I've got one more half marathon this year and then its Paris. I'll see how I feel after October's but I need to up my training for the coming 6 months to do this. I'll probably do it for charity and that usually gives me a few more miles. I might even ask for support here too.

[Stuttgart88]

Harps, for me the difference between a half and a full marathon is that in a half you kind of think you can put a bit of welly into it. You know it's only (!) 13 miles and when you start to feel it hurting, there really isn't that much longer left. You know you can do it and, as you say, after you cool down you're raring to go again.

The marathon is different in my experience (of one)- you run at a slower pace for fear of not having enough left so even at the halfway point you feel OK. By the time you know you're struggling you have 6+ miles left and the end is effing torture. It takes days if not weeks before you feel raring to go again. I had to walk up and down stairs sideways for 3 days afterwards.

I sat down on the steps on Merrion Sq after Dublin last year. I had to get help getting off the steps - my body was stuck rigid!

Enjoy Paris.

[Mad Moose]

I've got Amsterdam Half in a few weeks and can only improve on my time in Budapest which I didn't enjoy as much as I thought I might. My training is quite good at the minute and I'm quite strong so I expect a better performance in Amsterdam. Crept in 30 seconds short of 2 hours at Budapest which is going back a bit for me but thats an age thing. Its spurred me to better my time.

Fitting my increased training in, with Paris in mind, is difficult at present and so thats something I need to look at seriously. I don't think I'll have a problem doing it. My problem is pacing myself and I'm not good because as soon as the race comes there's an increase in my pace which means I struggle later. Something I need to work on.

[Mad Moose]

I started a blog to document my efforts for April as this will be a move for me from running a 16 mile race to a 26 mile race and thats a huge effort. I decided to focus all those thoughts I have when I'm out on the road into a blog. I haven't gotten the hang of it yet as such so its very much work in progress but I'll keep on at it.

The site is here

http://longlonelyroadtoparis.blogspot.com/

[eamo1]

Doing the DCM this Monday.One of my life goals was to run a marathon and this year i said i'd go for it.Started off from near zero to running a few half marathon's in recent weeks and now am ready(i think) for the marathon.Started doing initial training last January on those very cold evenings and now i cant believe 10 months have flown by and its just day's till the race:).
In individual sports like running the mental side of things can be very difficult.I have done enough training but there's still lingering doubts that have been wrecking my head all week.Plus i keep hearing about these last 6 miles.

[Aberdonian Stu]

It's my 6th one, I imagine I'm a lot bigger than you (close to 20st) and that isn't muscle. If I can manage to still be doing these I reckon you'll be grand. The first one isn't so bad, just basically hang on for the last few miles and you'll be grand. Dublin is a nice course as it flattens considerably after the 19 mile mark so once you hit Foster Avenue it's plain sailing.

[Dodge]

Fair play Aberdonian. I'd be another big lad and myself and 3 mates have given ourselves 2 years to do it. Fairly daunting task when I think about it but we've decided to talk the slow route to building up to it.

[passinginterest]

Just to update seeing as I started the thread, she decided against the Marathon and will be walking on hot coals instead. The shorter distance was the clincher :D

She did the hot coals thing this day last week and raised well over €1,000 for MDI in the process so she was delighted.

Best of luck to all you marathon runners. I'd love to give it a try myself one day.

[Kingdom]

The town I live in organised a 10k run for local funding. Mrs Kingdom suggested we both do it, as it turns out I ended up doing it on my own. I started really from scr, hadn't done any form of training in about 5 years and the lumps were well showing. There was a meet and train group, with a coach and really it was baby steps from the first day. I love sport but have always hated running just for runnings sake. I was a mess on the first day, puffing and ruined after 1 x 700m lap of the trail. We seemed to be doing very short distances, lots of stretching etc, but after about 4 weeks (only 3 x 1hr sessions a week) the fitness really improved, so much so that he surprised us into doing a 7k run one evening, and couldn't believe how easy it was. I had hoped to do the 10k in under an hour (not really an achievement - but from the starting point it did not look realistic).
We were very lucky insofar as the course was well mapped out from the first days training. The day itself was tough, it was hotter than anything we'd trained at, and the course itself took in a very steep hill right in the middle of the course. I was very happy with how it was going and three of us had grouped together and that was a massive difference. However the finishing line was changed on the day (something I wasn't aware of) and all the motivation of "keep going - only this corner to go" completely went when I realised the finishing line was another 500m away. It was like someone had stuck a blade in my back, couldn't believe afterwards how badly it affected me. I literally stopped in the street, and it took at least a minute for me to get going to do the last half kilometre.

I know it's not a marathon but it's giving an idea of the mental aspect that I would have scoffed at previously. I was very happy to do it in 57:53, achieving the goal. I'll keep doing them and then consider the big one in a couple of years.

[eamo1]

Dodge dont be discouraged about taking up the challenge.I did an 8km last year with little or no training and kinda got bitten by "the bug" then and went for the big one this year then.Running is addictive,which helps alot.My best mate talked for years about doing it together but showed no signs of actually making the effort so i struck out on my own this year and didnt wait for him.Consider doing the same if your mates dont make a move within those 2 years:).

[Mad Moose]

Have a read of my blog Dodge. It gives a little bit about what you might achieve. I remember getting sick after about 3 miles on a lunchtime run within the last 2 years. I'm half way to wear I need to be but as my blog says 'anything and everything is possible'. What you'll find as your fitness improves is you'll be surprised just how much you can do actually.

[Mad Moose]

I know it's not a marathon but it's giving an idea of the mental aspect that I would have scoffed at previously. I was very happy to do it in 57:53, achieving the goal. I'll keep doing them and then consider the big one in a couple of years.

For most non runners or new to running runners they tend to look at a sub 60 10k. Your time isn't bad actually. I'm around the 50 minute mark for a 10km at the minute and I want to break into the 40 - 50 minute time band at that distance at some stage. I'll be happy with a personal best sub 50.

[eamo1]

Just completed the marathon earlier today,first time ever and a lifelong goal complete,a great buzz crossing the line.Was tough but i'd recommend anyone to give it a go with good preperation first obviously:).

[Aberdonian Stu]

Well done, I'm recuperating after it now.

[eamo1]

How did you do Stu?Around what time did you get?Well done,hope it went well for you.I found it tough and not as flat as i had kept hearing it was meant to be.Did it in around 4.30.

[Aberdonian Stu]

I'm still a bit stiff but pretty much grand. Did it in 7:03:16 which was about what I was hoping for. Hoping to fit in 3 over spring then skip the summer and finish the 5 race plan I have with Letterkenny in September.

[osarusan]

I know this is off-topic but the weekend saw the tearful retirement of Haile Gebrselassie - one of the greatest runners I've ever seen.

[KK77]

Doing the Liverpool half marathon the last Sunday in March. It will be my first one. Done a few 10k's but nothing more. Training 3 nights a week at the moment but should really be doing 4 nights. As it stands i do 3/4 miles twice a week and then on the third night i do the longer run. At the moment i am up to 7 miles on the longer run which i ran on Friday night. Felt ok being honest. A bit tired towards the last mile or so but ok overall. Have to say nervous enough about it all but especially training towards 8 miles then 9 and so on. Have diabetes but so far seem to have the sugars at the right level heading out on my runs.

[thischarmingman]

Running half marathon in London in September, first kind of running event I've ever done. I can so about 5/6 miles non-stop at the moment and I'm hoping to hit around 1 hour 45/50. Anyone got any more stories, anecdotes, tips or horror stories since this thread was last bumped?


Doing the Liverpool half marathon the last Sunday in March. It will be my first one. Done a few 10k's but nothing more. Training 3 nights a week at the moment but should really be doing 4 nights. As it stands i do 3/4 miles twice a week and then on the third night i do the longer run. At the moment i am up to 7 miles on the longer run which i ran on Friday night. Felt ok being honest. A bit tired towards the last mile or so but ok overall. Have to say nervous enough about it all but especially training towards 8 miles then 9 and so on. Have diabetes but so far seem to have the sugars at the right level heading out on my runs.

Well, how did it go?

[tetsujin1979]

The world record was broken in the Boston marathon yesterday

[Aberdonian Stu]

thischarmingman

Well if you can run that far non-stop now the good news is you should be fine. There really is no bad news. Essentially what you want to do is build in increments.

For example my work schedule means I only get to do one long run each week in addition to a bunch of short ones. The big difference is as time goes on I can increase the long on. So say I do 3 x 3 miles midweeek, and then 5 miles at the weekend. The next week I can up that to 3 x 3 miles midweek and 7 at the weekend, then 9, 11, 13, etc. It's all about building up rather than taking one huge leap at a time.

It's remarkable how quickly the body adapts.

[Stuttgart88]

The world record was broken in the Boston marathon yesterdayI don't think it's allowed to count though, as Boston is classified as a "downhill" course.

Looking fwd to kearing KK77's time. There's a school of thought that 3 runs a week is fine as long as you do some "cross training" - cycling or swimming on top of it. Just running drives me mad.

[thischarmingman]

thischarmingman

Well if you can run that far non-stop now the good news is you should be fine. There really is no bad news. Essentially what you want to do is build in increments.

For example my work schedule means I only get to do one long run each week in addition to a bunch of short ones. The big difference is as time goes on I can increase the long on. So say I do 3 x 3 miles midweeek, and then 5 miles at the weekend. The next week I can up that to 3 x 3 miles midweek and 7 at the weekend, then 9, 11, 13, etc. It's all about building up rather than taking one huge leap at a time.

It's remarkable how quickly the body adapts.

Cool, that's what I'm going to try to do. I reckon 2 short and 1 long per week. I know people of a similar or slightly worse fitness who started training about 8-10 weeks before and I have a lot more time than that so hopefully I'll be fine. Meant to ask, how important are shoes really? I'm running in a fairly cheap pair of not-really-built-for-running trainers at the moment. Can I get away with this for a while or should I be looking to splash out on a decent pair asap?

[Aberdonian Stu]

Actually the one thing I'd do above all else is get a decent pair of runners. Like no need to get some crazy fangled pair promise all sorts of bull. Just get a pair of Asics. They're super-reliable.

[Stuttgart88]

I like Brooks shoes. I use Brooks Adrenaline. It's worth getting your running style assessed which they'll do in most good running shops. I need "moderate stability" shoes meaning the inside side of the shoe is harder than the outside, preventing injuries due to natural "over pronation". I used to get nasty achilles and other lower leg muscle strains until I discovered this.

Shoes are very important. Don't ever race in brand new shoes though. Give them one or two decent runs before a race, just in case they eat into your feet.

[Mad Moose]

I am a Marathon Runner

I haven't been on here in ages. With so much going on with work, Uni and trying to keep up my fitness. I have joined the band of merry men who can say they have run a marathon. For such a monumental prospect I found it somewhat more comfortable than I imagined and despite my knees protesting in the days running up to the event they carried me well and it was a massive achievement.

Having gotten a place for London this year I had to turn it down as I was running the Paris Marathon the week before. To say I was gutted and disappointed was an understatement as I would have chose London everytime. As its a massive undertaking I did it for charity and more specifically a condition m girlfriend suffers from, namely Fibromyalgia. Fibro, in short, is a very painful muscular arthritic condition and so she can very rarely do much exercise or sleep with the pain. To say she has a tough life is an understatement and so in recognition of this I ran for Fibromyalgia Association UK and more specifically the local support group branch in Burton Upon Trent. In short we have raised nearly 800 pound to date and can guarantee the support group a roof over their head for their support group meetings for the next year. www.justgiving.com/BrendanGrufferty

The event proved to be a great choice with a great atmosphere and despite the baking heat I made a last minute decision to run and enjoy it ad comfortably finish rather than get myself a time I was aiming for. If your doing a first marathon this is the way to go. I had planned for 4 hours. I did it in 4hrs 58 and so while its miles away from where I wanted to be its still an achivement and one I'll consider doing again.

I have the racing bug. I am addicted. I have a familiar pattern of countryside routes which have been beautiful and always served me well and in the current weather I'm getting out there to enjoy them. You can read more about my marathon efforts on my blog (in my signature) which to date hasn't exactly seen much life or throughflow of people. Pictures will be put up on it at sme stage. I never really got the hang of the blog set up etc.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Well done. I did Belfast myself there on Monday, cracking day for it as well. Next time I'll remember to use sun cream!

[Stuttgart88]

Well done lads. I spoke with a guy who did Paris also, and he said the heat made it very tough.

[Mad Moose]

Thank you. The heat was difficult. Running in heat really throws you. Paris was a great choice. I'm set for a few more and liningt up Rome or Jerusaleum in March next year. I think I might do an international event a year just to keep up the running goal and motivation.

Well done on Belfast Stu. I know a few people who did it though I havent as yet followed up to check how they found it. They go back to that one every year as they love it. That said they are doing Benidorm this year also!!! I'm not really feeling it. Added to that quite a few people at the club are doing Man v Horse this year. There truly is a running event that just about captures every eventuality.

[Stuttgart88]

How long after Paris was it before you could walk up a stairs properly? I think I was about 3-4 days before I could stop having to walk up & down stairs sideways!

[thischarmingman]

Guys, have any of you done any of Budapest (I know Harpsbear's done this one), Berlin, Istanbul, Warsaw or Athens and if so, could you give me a quick run-down on how it was? I'd be a first-timer, btw.

They're are marathons around Sept/Oct/Nov this year when I'd like to try and do one. The full list I'm trying to select one from is here: http://www.marathonrunnersdiary.com/races/europe-marathons-list.php

[thischarmingman]

Actually the one thing I'd do above all else is get a decent pair of runners. Like no need to get some crazy fangled pair promise all sorts of bull. Just get a pair of Asics. They're super-reliable.

Got a pair of these bad boys for £40, going to test them out tonight. :)

http://www.ruvilla.com/main/wp-content/uploads/nike-air-dictate-blk-white.jpg

[thischarmingman]

Signed up for the Florence marathon (http://www.firenzemarathon.it/index.php?lang=en)in November.

I'm going to die aren't I?

[Stuttgart88]

You'll be grand.

What stage of fitness are you at?

Feel free to ask for any advice. There's more than one way to skin a cat but am happy to try and help.

[thischarmingman]

Cool, will probably do over the next few months. I'm running 10 miles in 1 hour and 25 mins. I'm going to go for my first 12/13 mile run in about an hours time.

Officially, I would be dead pleased if I finish in 4 hours or so, but secretly I want to do better.

[Stuttgart88]

1:25 is decent for 10 miles. You'll take chunks out of that by interval training, which is one part of what you need to be doing as part of your training anyway.

How did the long run go?

When I started training for Dublin I tested myself just to see how long I could jog for. I did 3 hours so knew I was already a long way there.

I think it makes sense to do a long run once a fortnight, once weekly if your legs are up to it. If you can do 13 miles now, by adding a mile every second week you'll be at 20 miles soon enough. As far as I know, you don't want to be doing 20 miles very often. Doing 21 or 22 a month before the race is probably a good idea, and something I regret not doing. I left it at 18 miles thinking the rwest will come on the day - it did, but it was awful.

Your key sessions should be speedwork once a week, no more than 3 or 4 miles, half a mile or a mile at a time at a good clip, but taking a short rest in between each set.

A 60-70 minute run with about 35-40 minutes at just less than your 10k pace, so a decent pace but not too testing. I try to do this at my 10k pace, but the books all say slower works better.

A long slow run at very manageable pace, just to build your endurance and get all the muscles and ligaments etc. used to the stress of slow repetitive slog.

Breaking up your sessions to improve V02 max, lactate threshold and endurance is the way to do it, but it also makes training a bit more focused and interesting. Just doing the same long run over and over would drive you mad.

[thischarmingman]

Stuttgart, thanks for taking the time to write that. It's really good advice. At the minute I'm training rather haphazardly with no real structure but I've been meaning to try to formalise it a bit more. I just seem to do a long (10M) run twice a week. I did 12.2 last night and found it really tough going, but I had done a good bit of walking the previous two days and my feet were a bit sore before I'd even started. Getting to 13.1 will be a big deal for me and hopefully with a bit of work like the training you mentioned I can reach it soon enough.

I know what you're saying about not doing too many long runs, but I think if I can do a couple of 26-28 mile runs in September (giving me weeks to recover), knowing I've already done the distance will be a tremendous boost.

I also got a couple of books from the library because I know absolutely nothing about food and nutrition. I've taken pride in studiously avoiding it throughout my life because any mention of words like calories, carbohydrates, nutrition just bore me to death! So I'm trying to learn about how everything works, and what I should be eating and lactate thresholds and that. :)

Thanks again.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Did Cork yesterday, very hilly course and not as scenic as you'd imagine for a hilly course. Happy to have it done.