Marathon

[Stuttgart88]

tcm, I have never heard of anyone going OVER the distance in marathon training. For 10ks and a half-marathon, yes, but not for the full thing. Unless a reputable coach or book says otherwise I'd avoid that.

There are two books I used:

The Jack Daniels Running Formula - quite technical but it includes a very good table from which you can look up your "v-dot" score. So, if you run 10k in 50 mins for example, it'll give you a v-dot score that corresponds with that time. In the subsequent chapters you can then look up your recommended pace for any given session by looking up your v-dot score.

The best book for me was "Run Less Run Faster" by the FIRST Institute. It's on Amazon

http://www.amazon.com/Runners-World-Less-Faster-Revolutionary/dp/159486649X

It has a load of pages in annex where you can look up your target time (so for you - 4 hours, say) and it prescribes a weekly mix of sessions and tells you what pace. You need to develop a "feel" for what pace is what over the longer runs though. I can run relatively easy, and guess that it's 8:30 a mile, but it's only my guess, unless you have convenient mile markers. If you can afford it it'd be worthwhile buying a GPS stopwatch (Garmin, Timex, Suunto all do good ones) but they're pricey.

The FIRST book is also very motivational and explains all the science in simple terms. However, I didn't follow the long run schedule as prescribed so suffered a bit on race day, but only from 20 miles onwards.

This is also very good:

http://www.mcmillanrunning.com/mcmillanrunningcalculator.htm

And your man Greg McMillan has loads of stuff about marathon training on the web.

I'd be genuinely interested in hearing how you progress.

I'm getting twitchy at home. I've got the Windsor Triathlon on Sunday and am "tapering". Was really hard not to drink watching Ireland last night!

[Stuttgart88]

Did Cork yesterday, very hilly course and not as scenic as you'd imagine for a hilly course. Happy to have it done.Good man, well done.

[Aberdonian Stu]

Cheers. I wouldn't do it again but it's a course worth doing once. Put it this way, if you are doing your first one don't do it in Cork as it might put you off doing others but it's not awful if you have a few under your belt.

[thischarmingman]

Furthest run yet, 11.4 miles in 1:53. Doing my first 10K on Sunday, would like to manage 45 min but reckon I'll probably be somewhere around the 54/55 min mark. Maybe going over the distance is a bit much- I'm wrecked after tonight's run, to imagine doing the entire run again, plus a bit more is utterly unthinkable to me at the moment, let along going further! I'm going to do either a 9.5 or 11.4 tomorrow and Friday and then take it easy on Saturday. The only thing I'm worried about is eating- I'll have to eat in the early morning (which I hate doing, I just don't have the stomach for it) a couple of hours before the run which is at 9:15. Yuck!

Thanks for all the info Stuttgart. I read it, meant to get back to you and then have had a mad busy last few weeks leaving my job and that so haven't been on the forum much. I'm going to order the JD book this week as I've heard a few good things about it. I'm prob end up getting one of the other ones too- I could do with something that explains all the science stuff as I have a total black spot in my head for all that sort of stuff. I have been eating lots more fruit though! I've found Runners World forums quite good to browse through- reading it always makes me want to go for a run.

[Stuttgart88]

Furthest run yet, 11.4 miles in 1:53. Doing my first 10K on Sunday, would like to manage 45 min but reckon I'll probably be somewhere around the 54/55 min mark. Maybe going over the distance is a bit much- I'm wrecked after tonight's run, to imagine doing the entire run again, plus a bit more is utterly unthinkable to me at the moment, let along going further! I'm going to do either a 9.5 or 11.4 tomorrow and Friday and then take it easy on Saturday. The only thing I'm worried about is eating- I'll have to eat in the early morning (which I hate doing, I just don't have the stomach for it) a couple of hours before the run which is at 9:15. Yuck!
You're welcome!

Porridge with a blob of honey is a great pre-run meal. It's very easy to digest, and because it's low-GI (i.e., slow releasing carbohydrate) it will release energy slowly. I've been reading the running & tri magazines a lot recently, and apparently there's been a lot of recent research into caffeine. A coffee or two an hour or less before a race improves performance, according to the scentists. It also helps to, eh, get things moving. The worst thing before a race is feeling "fully loaded" and it's always nicer to go at home, rather than having to use the public toilets or portaloos at the race venue. It's the details that count!

Well done on the long run.

If you're doing a 10k on Sunday I think you'd be mad to do a long run on Friday. You'll have nothing left on Sunday, especially if you're going to try and inject some pace. 10k's can be tricky - 6.25 miles is a long way if you're pushing the pace. I think 45 mins is way too ambitious. Aim for 52-55 mins i.e., be happy with 55 mins, be delighted with 52.

For Friday, maybe do a 10 min jog to warm up, then a quick mile or mile-and-a-half, and jog for 5 mins to finish.

Alternatively (I tend not to do them) "recovery runs" are supposed to be a good idea. A recovery run is a jog at a ridiculously slow pace, just to avoid stiffness setting in. Even a 30-45 minute cycle, followed by a stretch* and a hot bath is a good idea.

Food / drink is also important. It's worth buying some Nesquik or similar chocolate powder, and mixing a spoonful with a large glass of semi-skimmed milk. After a long run it's exactly what your body needs. Hydration, protein (essential post-effort, because it aids muscle recovery) and a little carbohydrate (sugar) to replenish lost energy.

If you're into gadgets and all the kit, buy a pair of compression tights to wear vegging in front of TV after a long run. This also helps you recover a bit quicker.

Remember this: you don't get fit while running, you get fit by recovering in between runs. It's like weight training - you damage yourself during the work effort, but you repair yourself, and gradually get stronger, when you rest.

* I find stretching is really important, especially as I'm getting on a bit. It's brilliant to prevent injury. I went to a few yoga classes in my gym (not as embarrassing as you might expect) and learnt some great stretches.

wrt books, maybe read the Run Less, Run Faster before JD. JD is more scientific but RLRF also has the science stuff - just in more digestible form.

------

A few other hints:

Think of each month as follows:

week 1 - think of this as your base effort
week 2 - do week 1 again , just a bit harder
week 3 - week 2, just a bit harder again
week 4 - a bit easier than week 1

week 1 - use week 2 in month 1 as your new base
week 2 - week 1, just a bit harder
...and so on.

-----

Another useful concept is "breakthrough" training.

So, you can run 11 miles now. On Sunday you'll know what your 10k race time is.

Set yourself a new target for the end of the next month, your "breakthrough" goal. By the sound of things, for you this should be to run a half-marathon in 2 hours(ish) in about 6 weeks' time, and be able to run 10k about 2 mins faster than you can now.

Every month set yourself a new goal (but new breakthrough thresholds must be manageable / realistic).

An example, for me, is a local hill that is very steep and takes me about 1:40 to run up. I used to struggle to do 3 reps (it's 3.5 miles from home, so it's a 7 mile round trip). Every month I added 1 rep and now I'm doing it 7 times - when I can be bothered!

----

PS: Quite chuffed with my Windsor Triathlon 10k run split - I did 45 minutes on a tough route after swimming a mile (dida swim PB) and biking 42k (did a sh1t bike split). Next year 43 minutes run. :)

[Macy]

I've been reading the running & tri magazines a lot recently, and apparently there's been a lot of recent research into caffeine. A coffee or two an hour or less before a race improves performance, according to the scentists.
Caffeine used to be on the banned list for cycling as a performance enhancer, above certain limits. Not sure if it still is. How about a few pro plus rather than the coffee?

[Stuttgart88]

Coffee is nicer!

[thischarmingman]

Cheers Stuttgart that's a lot of useful info! I might start printing them all off, to compile my own personal guide to running :) I got Nesquick and porridge in our shop this week.

Anyway, I did the 10K in 1:02, which I was a bit disappointed with, although it was scorchingly hot despite the morning start. I managed 56 mins later on in the week, in the evening, with no pressure.

I also managed my best training week ever last week, clocking 40 miles altogether, running 6 days and culminating in a 15 mile run on Sunday evening which was tough at the time but which I recovered fairly quickly from (the furthest I'd previously run was 12miles). I managed it in 2:26 which left my first ever half marathon time around 2:20, which I'm happy enough with for now. I'm be wanting to break 2 hours at the end of September though.

I don't want to overdo it though, and I did try and make sure I had a good mix of sessions during the week (although I played football for 2 and a half hours on Sunday morning- I might have to change my long run day!) I have a loop of around 3.7 miles I do once or twice depending on the day and on one of the days I just tried to do one lap as quick as I could. I think the football is good too as it involves some steady jogging with a lot of sudden sprints and bursts of pace (I play on the wing).

Congrats on the triathlon time by the way, I'd like to get into that sort of thing eventually.

[bennocelt]

Heh TCM - have you seen the London Marathon Shop near Covent garden heading towards Drury lane - something I think you might be interested in?

[Stuttgart88]

I know it well. Limited range imho - I prefer Runners Need shops (various locations).

[thischarmingman]

:Well, not much gone on in here for a while. I did my first half marathon on Sunday- London's Run to the Beat. I was targeting 2 hours and managed 1:58. I'm fairly content but also a little disappointed as the first half was the fastest I'd run the distance (54min 10K time as opposed to the standalone 1:02 I posted above way back in June), and I just started to get really hungry and light-headed. I thought I'd eaten properly beforehand but maybe not. I had to walk about a quarter of a mile around mile 11 and then managed to continue to the end. My legs and all were fine, it was just entirely my stomach.

Anyway, I really enjoyed the day. I know some runners prefer the smaller events and regard these kind of events as overpriced lures to charity runners, and I saw some of the bad reviews from the race last year but they whole experience was just brilliant for me. The event has been taken over by Nike in the past year and they seem to be running it better than any of the previous organisers, going by some of the comments online. There were supporters along most of the route cheering you on, and they really did make a difference, especially the guy who convinced me to start running again at mile 11. It helped that the weather was perfect, and the whole thing had a kind of carnival atmosphere with music and DJs and all the rest. Well pleased with it. Incidentally, my friend who ran with me did a rather impressive 1:37.

Anyway, I have 8 weeks to go until the full marathon so back training (lightly) again this evening. I'm following this (http://www.runnersworld.co.uk/racing/runners-world-smartcoach/3057.html?uan=3057&hour=1&mins=58&secs=55&rlen=half&rdst=mara&mpwe=31&startf=123xyz&diff=vhard&lrdy=0&slen=8&trainstart=ds1317071411302&metr=miles#smartcoachtop) RW programme. It's going to be tough, but at least it's only 8 weeks of sustained effort. Anyone can keep at something for 8 weeks, right?

[bennocelt]

Good luck with that, sounds tough - but does that mean I wont see u in a footballing capacity again(and all that that brings -ie lager and pies)? LOL

[Kingdom]

Stuttgart and TCM loved reading back over those posts.
Stutts in particular, you've posted loads of great tips. Will be getting back into running as soon as I buy my nice shiny new runners on Thurs, so there's loads there to work on.

On that, can anyone recommend a pair of shoes? Not going to buy the cheapest on the shelf for the sake of being a skinflint, but don't want to go mad either.

Have only ever had Asics or Adidas runner shoes and neither were top range. If something was very worthwhile and durable, I'd be prepared to spend a bit more.

[Stuttgart88]

No shoe is "durable" in the sense that they all lose a bit of life or bounce after about 6 months. The shoe will last ages, but not as a well performing shoe. Price is neither here nor there really - a shoe less than £70 probably ain't great, and the max you'd ever spend is £120. I tend to buy around the £85 mark. So £20 or £30 quid over what you feel comfortable spending is worth it because yiou spread the cost out and I think £30 over 6 months isn't a biggy.

I use Brooks Adrenaline and have done for 2 or 3 years now. As a mild over-pronator I like the moderate stability they offer, and just like them. They fit me well and perform well.

Good effort at going sub-2, TCM.

The RW plan looks good but make sure you stick to it. They 18 mile and 20 milers will be key. Do them all. Think of easing off any boozing for a month too. A couple of kilos lighter will make it much easier.

[bennocelt]

Dont know if this is any good
http://performance.fourfourtwo.com/fitness/what-your-game-can-learn-from-long-distance-running

[thischarmingman]

I have a quick question about long runs. I'm running the marathon on Nov 27th which means I have 4 more 'long run' Sundays to go before it. I did 18 miles for the first time last week, and 20 yesterday. For the next 4 weeks I'm thinking of doing 22, 24, 12, 8. Does this sound about right, or should I be doing more or tapering better?

[Stuttgart88]

Not sure to be honest! I'd say it looks about right, but if anything the 24 mile run looks a little long to me. 21 or 22 is probably enough.

It sounds like you've come on a lot. If you can do 18 and 20 miles you can do a marathon already I reckon. The next few weeks will adapt your body even more so you're well placed.

The big danger now is catching a cold that sets you back by ten days. Although fitness boosts immunity, being run down reduces it. So make sure you recover well after your long runs, get good sleep and eat & hydrate well.

[thischarmingman]

Cool, thanks for your speedy reply. I just feel that the 20 miles were quite tough yesterday and I feel I might not be fully prepared for doing another 6 on top of that. Running the long distances gives me confidence as well for the actual race. I'd like to do 22 at least. Maybe I should aim for something like 22, 20, 12, 8 instead. I've read conflicting advice.

I lost the week before last to a chest infection so hoping that that's it as far as illness goes for a while!

[thischarmingman]

Going through a real purple patch at the moment, at just the right time. Did 23.1 miles (my longest distance by 3.1 miles) on Sunday in 3:30 and then ran a 50 minute 10K this evening (the one I did in July was 1:02). Feeling really happy with my running, and only worry that my present enthusiasm might see me burn myself out a little before the marathon, which is Sunday two weeks.

Hoping to do long run of 15 or so this Sunday before dramatically reducing my mileage next week. I'll prob just do 5/6 miles the Sunday before the race itself. Just can't wait for it at this stage.

[Stuttgart88]

Sounds like you're on the pig's back. Good man.

[thischarmingman]

5 days to go...

0

[Stuttgart88]

Good luck. My colleague is flying out this morning.

[Stuttgart88]

Well, how did it go?

My colleague did 3:08. He said all the Italians were cheating, cutting corners etc.!

[thischarmingman]

Sweet lord, 3:08 is a brilliant time, I hope he's suitably chuffed with himself!

I ran it in 4:02. I'm relatively happy with this but slightly disappointed as I was running 3:55 right up to mile 23. Fell apart badly in the last 5km.

I don't think I hit 'the wall' or anything- more that my legs and feet were just so sore I could barely lift them. At the water stop 5km from the end I stopped to have a drink and starting again was like trying to run through thick treacle. I remember thinking at the same mark, "Right, 5km, that's the same distance as your standard run around the block- you know how easy that is to do." Literally 30 seconds later I just remember feeling utter despair at the thought of another 3+ miles and feeling almost close to tears at how much I didn't want to do it.

Anyway I somehow managed to stumble around, losing quite a lot of time and seeing the 4-hour pacers pass me for the first time in the whole race with around 4 km to go. About half an hour after I finished I felt a bit stupid at how I'd felt at 5km and wanted to go back in time and tell myself to stop being so silly and get running but I genuinely did feel horrendous for those last 7/8km- c'est la vie!

Ran it with a friend and we both stuck together until 18 miles when he went on ahead (he finished in 3.50). We stayed a couple of mins ahead of the 4 hour pacers, who had started a couple of mins ahead of us at the start and that enabled us to keep our timing for most of it. It's maybe the case that I pushed too hard though in those first 18 miles (my HM time, at 1:54, was 4 mins faster than the time I actually ran Run to the Beat HM two months ago), though I was targeting 4 hours so it didn't feel wrong at the time.

I also didn't use any energy gels when training, just eating chocolate on the way around- I didn't want to change anything in the weeks leading up to the marathon. Do you think they would have had an effect on my legs? Maybe I should look to start incorporating them into my training for next time?

Thanks everyone, for all the tips and advice- in particular Stuttgart88 for the time you've taken in your responses- it's been both inspirational and immensely informative reading this thread over the past few months and I appreciate it.

Anyway, we're already talking about doing another next Spring- I feel I have unfinished business- so the whole experience of our first marathon just made us more enthusiastic about the whole thing. Florence was lovely, weather was perfect, just had a really enjoyable (for the most part) weekend and I'd recommend the course to anyone. Didn't notice any cheating Italians but to be fair I didn't notice much after the 20km mark. One thing I did find was that a lot of the runners were pretty brusque about pushing past you- I wasn't going particularly slowly but I lost count of the number of (mostly male) runners who bumped me hard as they ran past and didn't have the courtesy to acknowledge it!

Anyway, before April, although I was reasonably fit, I'd never even contemplated running 5km- I hadn't spent a second, let along my life, dreaming of running a marathon- and since then I've managed a 10km, a HM, a 5km, and a marathon- I'm happy to regroup over Christmas and come back fitter, leaner and better prepared next Spring.

[Stuttgart88]

Great effort. Serious respect. You've come so far so quickly.

I've been running for years, though only in the last 3 or 4 years have I stopped thinking that anything longer than a HM is too extreme (I think age naturally steers you towards distance - fast twitch v slow twitch etc.).

Your experience wasn't far off mine. I found the first 20 miles grand. I was on target though I'd definitely liked to have stopped. "Sure I only have 6 miles to go - that's what I do when I haven't got time to go running properly. No distance." That's what the brain said anyway. The legs just told me to feck right off. They were the boss. The brain can only think, the legs are the ones who do the work. They wanted to go on strike. I don't think it was the wall either, just not enough training beyond my comfort zone & boredom threshold which is about 18 miles. I do triathlons (I even represented Ireland at a World Champs in 2008 - get that!) and am well used to pushing myself through the pain barrier. Not then though.

In reality I think you can train to get ready for a marathon and do OK, but I think your body needs hardening over more than a few months. I reckon you need a few under your belt to actually achieve what you're capable of achieving.

I doubt not taking gels while training was detrimental. In fact there's a doctrine "train low, race high" meaning that training without energy supplements trains your body to be economical with fuel, so on race day a good dose of sugar actually works rather than just delivering what your body expects. I have a slightly different take on this: train hungover, race clean. I love running on a Sunday morning but I'll be ****ed if I'm going to nopt drink on a Saturday unless it's race day.

Anyway, I'm thinking of doing Edinburgh in May.

[thischarmingman]

In reality I think you can train to get ready for a marathon and do OK, but I think your body needs hardening over more than a few months. I reckon you need a few under your belt to actually achieve what you're capable of achieving.

I doubt not taking gels while training was detrimental. In fact there's a doctrine "train low, race high" meaning that training without energy supplements trains your body to be economical with fuel, so on race day a good dose of sugar actually works rather than just delivering what your body expects. I have a slightly different take on this: train hungover, race clean. I love running on a Sunday morning but I'll be ****ed if I'm going to nopt drink on a Saturday unless it's race day.

Anyway, I'm thinking of doing Edinburgh in May.

Cheers, that was kind of my thought on it. We both only signed up on the basis that neither of us would have to stop drinking to train- we feared becoming the sort of people who can only talk about running and running gear and running times and running this and that when out with a group of friends. Apart from the last couple of weeks I don't think either of us would have put training ahead of drinking, which isn't to say we didn't do plenty of training and were well prepared! It might be nice to be a 'serious' runner when I'm a bit older but I want the best of both worlds now!

Anyway, we're looking at Spring marathons now. Milan or Prague look like they fit the bill - easy to get to, beautiful courses etc. If anyone#s ever done one of them I'd be interested in how you fared?

[Stuttgart88]

Just entered Edinburgh. 27th May.

TCM, got any training tips? :)

[thischarmingman]

Just entered Edinburgh. 27th May.

TCM, got any training tips? :)

I just came on to ask everyone what their plans for 2012 were :)

There's a couple if guys from work running Copenhagen on May 20th but another friend (the guy I ran Florence with) can't make it due to work so not sure what I'm going to do. The thought of 4 of us heading to Denmark, and staying a couple of days afterwards to sample the local nightlife is almost irresistible. I'd certainly think about Edinburgh, not least as it's easy to get to and a nice place to visit.

Also, I got a Forerunner 205 for Xmas and have done a couple of runs with it (it's gale force conditions up here in Derry or I would have done more!) but the data it gives you and the ease of use is brilliant. Training for Florence I only really did distance work and little or no speedwork as it's very difficult to do interval training when you're only using an app on a phone attached to your upper arm and can't work out distances easily. I'm hopeful speedwork will make a big difference come whatever Spring marathon I do. It's a super cool wee gadget though!

[Aberdonian Stu]

For a change I'm going to focus on just the one marathon this year. Plan is to build up to Dublin in autumn.

[thischarmingman]

Looks like I'll be doing Vienna on April 15th. Depending on how the money situation is, I might be able to do Copenhagen on May 20th with a few guys from work but Vienna is the big one I'm setting my sights on. Anyone ever done Vienna before? It sounds pretty good, and it will be nice to visit somewhere I've never been. http://www.vienna-marathon.com

Targeting 3:45. Can't wait, looking forward to getting back into the training after a lazy December.

[BonnieShels]

Starting my training tomorrow. The ultimate aim is Dublin 2012 but I'm not going to pressure myself.

[Stuttgart88]

Targeting 3:45. Can't wait, looking forward to getting back into the training after a lazy December.You're getting cocky now!

TCM & Bonnie - Dublin is agreat race. I was really impressed by the atmosphere and the organisation.

I've entered Edinburgh on 27th May. I have been keeping fit since my last race (Windsor Triathlon, June 2011) and have a solid foundation to build on.

I started the formal training yesterday with a run of 1 hour 55 mins at a decent clip. When I did Dublin in 2009 I didn't do enough long running so I'm going to be more dedicated about doing plenty of 2.5-3+ hour runs. Ideally once weekly with the occasional switch to a long bike ride.

I've ordered the new Garmin 910X GPS watch, but it won't arrive until Feb. Once that arrives I can train more "scientifically".

Formal plans and goals for 2012 season.

- Start cycling to work again daily. That's nearly 80 miles per week.
- Lose 5kg, maybe 7kg prior to Edinburgh.
- March 2012 - Fleet Half Marathon - goal is 1:35 (last year 1:38).
- April 2012 - Fullers Thames Towpath Ten Miler - goal is 70 minutes (course PB is 72 minutes)
- May 19th 2012 - Super Sprint Triathlon Dorney Lake - goal is (a) 1:07 (course PB is 1:09) and (b) place in top 5 in my age group. I move up into the 45s category this year. My 1:09 from 2011 would have placed me 7th in the 45s.
- May 27th 2012 - Edinburgh Marathon. Ambitious goal is to break 3:30, but I'll be happy with 3:40 probbaly.
- June 2012 - Going to Poznan and Gdansk. Put back on 5kg!
- June 2012 - one or two days after Italy game - Windsor Triathlon, Olympic Distance. Goal is to go low 2:30s. Course PB is 2:36 but it's a tough course - my PB elsewhere is 2:27
- Break my 10k PB at an event TBD. PB is 43:28 so I think if I drop 5-7kg I can go close to 40 mins.
- One more race TBD.

[Stuttgart88]

Edit to above: Fleet H/M is full so I've entered Milton Keynes H/M on 4th March and Reading H/M on 1st April, which includes a finish in the Majedski Stadium.

[Stuttgart88]

Does anyone agree with / object to posting a weekly training diary up here? It'll be useful to look back on after the event to analyse whether the training plan works or doesn't work. It's also a useful motivational tool.

I'm going to use a variation of the "3+2 programme" I advocated previously.

That's 3 quality run sessions per week, plus 2 other forms of exercise. The 3 quality runs are:

(1) Approx. 5k of intervals at fast pace - goal is to improve Vo2 max. The program sets out a plan, but my running club has a similar session every Tuesday so I'm going to do the weekly club session instead.
(2) One lactate threshold run - counter-intuitively this is slower than 10k race pace, and is "comfortably hard".
(3) One long run p/w - anything from 13 to 20 miles, as per the programme. Slower than race pace.

I started the weekly long runs on 1/1, with a run of just under 2 hours. A week later I did 2:15, but faster than I should have gone. I start the fast intervals tonight.

My 16 weeks doesn't start until February so I'm still building my base and basically faffing about as I feel like, but I plan to run for at least 2:40 once a week, with up to 6 or 7 3 hour runs. I did way too few of these in 2009. Come March / April I'm going to add a weekly long bike ride (3+ hours).

I've started cycling to work and am doing at least one spinning class p/w, starting tomorrow

[Stuttgart88]

On track so far.

This week I've done a tough interval session at running club - basically did 8k with rests, at 5k pace. 2 days later I did 90 mins at a decent clip 2 days later, and then on Sunday I ran 18 miles in 2:45 - slow pace but that's the idea for now.

Club interval run again tomorrow. I've cycled to work every day now for last 2 weeks.

[peadar1987]

Can I join in?

Just registered as a charity runner for the Edinburgh marathon. The plan is to start with 3 training days a week (plus playing hockey as well), one "long" run, starting 10k, building it up gradually, to about 30-35k come marathon time, one "short" run, about 5k, trying to knock down my time, and one set of intervals, thinking push really hard for a minute, gentle jog for a minute, starting at 16 minutes, building that up as I go as well.

I'd be delighted with anything under 4:30 to be honest, and would be pretty happy just to get round

[Stuttgart88]

Good luck Peadar, sounds like a half decent plan. I'd start your long runs a bit longer than 10k though - assuming you're up for it. They don't have to be at any decent pace.

I went skiing last week with some mates which was a worklout in itself, but since coming back I did a hardish 2 hours on a hilly circuit on Friday. Back to the weekly routine again, starting with a tough club session on Tuesday - 5 x 7 minute intervals at faster than than 10k pace, 90 secs between work efforts.

[peadar1987]

Good luck Peadar, sounds like a half decent plan. I'd start your long runs a bit longer than 10k though - assuming you're up for it. They don't have to be at any decent pace.

I went skiing last week with some mates which was a worklout in itself, but since coming back I did a hardish 2 hours on a hilly circuit on Friday. Back to the weekly routine again, starting with a tough club session on Tuesday - 5 x 7 minute intervals at faster than than 10k pace, 90 secs between work efforts.

After all those good intentions I bailed after just one week of training because it was too cold! Hoping to get back to it this week now the snow and ice have melted, and I won't skid into the canal! The only thing making me feel a bit less guilty is the fact that my fellow charity runners are doing even worse than I am!

[Stuttgart88]

I'm kind of on track. Did 18 miles at average 8:50 p/m on Sunday. Slow compared to my target time, though it didn't feel that slow. I'm 16 weeks out now and want to be doing an 18-20 miler at least 10 more times. Did the usual spped and tempo sessions in between, I'm maybe two or three sessions down on my schedule over a 4 week cycle. Not bad.

[Stuttgart88]

Was at home in Dublin over the w/e so training was curtailed.

I did 11 miles approx. out to Belfield and back to Rathfarnham on Friday. Nice to see the alma mater again. Both ways were via Foster Evenue, Mount Anville, Taney Hill, so undulating is a fair description.

Early on Sunday am I did around 13 miles in 1:50 out to and around Phoenix Park and back, before heading out to the airport (by car!). Dublin is weird at 8am on a Sunday morning. Eeerily still and quiet.

Club speed session tonight.

Next long run is in next few days and then HM on 4th March in Milton Keynes, so only some short, fast sessions before that.

[peadar1987]

I've been mainly doing 5ks recently to try and build up my fitness, and because work is manic, and it's easier to fit in a 25 minute 5k than see how much distance I can get through in an hour and a half.

I'm still putting in two two-hour hockey sessions a week, and either one or two matches at the weekends, so hopefully that's making some sort of contribution. I know I'm going to have to start putting in some long runs soon though, I'm just conscious of the fact that I don't want to overdo things and get injured.

[Stuttgart88]

Formal plans and goals for 2012 season.

- - March 2012 - Fleet Half Marathon - goal is 1:35 (last year 1:38).


Edit to above: Fleet H/M is full so I've entered Milton Keynes H/M on 4th March and Reading H/M on 1st April, which includes a finish in the Majedski Stadium.

Did MK half-marathon yesterday. Nailed it - 1:34. Awful weather, it was so cold it started snowing just after the race.

Good to get an early season form marker in.

[Stuttgart88]

How's everyone else doing?

I'm pretty much on track. I decided not to run the Reading Half last Sunday. The MK Half took a bit out of me at race pace, and I had to ease off training while my 44 year old legs recovered. I decided a 20 mile training run on Sunday would be better for me than another half marathon race.

That's two 20 milers I have done in the last 10 days and my track interval sessions and mid-distance tempo efforts are mainly up-to-date. I've been cycling a heavy mountain bike in and out of work for 3 months now. I've done the 20 miles in 2:45 which is slower than race pace, but in line with my programme. Next 2 or 3 should be progressively quicker. I have to say that I don't like running for more than 2 hours though. Boredom and lower back pain take over.

Touch wood I can continue to meet my training milestones and stay injury free and healthy.

I need to add some proper swim and cycling training to my routine now so that will put more pressure on.

[nigel-harps1954]

Yer all mental if you ask me. I struggle to stand in nets every week playing football in a junior league I'm that unfit.

Considering running the North West 10k and Danny McDaid 15k races up in Letterkenny, but aside from that Marathons are a mad battle. Sister is running the Dublin one but since running a marathon on a treadmill for charity 2 years ago I don't think I'll be at that again any time soon.

Fair play to you though, tis a tough ask for anyone and takes a lot of committment.

[Stuttgart88]

- April 2012 - Fullers Thames Towpath Ten Miler - goal is 70 minutes (course PB is 72 minutes)
Close enough - did it in 71 mins and 7 seconds. 8 seconds quicker and I'd have been able to say 1:10 something, or 70 mins!

I had a few drinks the night before and I'm recovering from a cold, so happy with that. Nearly 90 secs better than my PB on that course, and 2.5 mins quicker than my time 12 months ago.

6+ weeks to Edinburgh now.

[Stuttgart88]

Yesterday I did my last long-ish run before Edinburgh on 27/5. I only did 2 hours and got bored and I still hadn't recovered fully from a hard interval session on Tuesday.

I did 2.5 hours the previous week. All my early season time targets have been met and I'm definitely a better 6-15 mile runner than I was last year. My big worry is that I've only once or twice done close to 20 miles in training and my other long runs have all been within my comfort zone of about 16-18 miles. Even that's too long really - too boring and just too much of a slog.

I've a couple of triathlons coming up too, including a super-sprint next Saturday which I've got to train for. My marathon training has been at the expense of proper swim and bike training so I'm off to do a bit of a spin now.

My prediction for Edinburgh? My lack of regular really long runs will see me struggle for the last 6+ miles. I'll be doing well to get inside 3:30.

[Stuttgart88]

May 19th 2012 - Super Sprint Triathlon Dorney Lake - goal is (a) 1:07 (course PB is 1:09) and (b) place in top 5 in my age group. I move up into the 45s category this year. My 1:09 from 2011 would have placed me 7th in the 45s.OK, so another good performance. I finished 40 seconds quicker than last year and in spite of a botched T1 (swim exit / start bike - where I couldn't undo the zip on my wetsuit, wasting a minute). The bike course was 1.5k longer than last year due to roadworks, so in effect I was probably closer to 4 mins quicker than last year, like for like. I nailed the 5k run in 20:10, my fastest effort ever over that distance.

I didn't get a placing in my age group though - 13th out of about 90 starters I think. The standrad was higher than last year.

5 days to Edinburgh marathon now. I'll train tonight and tomorrow (swim & bike) as I'm still training for an OD Tri in June, but then that's it. Despite being on great form and having lost a few kg I'm still anxious about 26 miles - I don't think I've done enough long running to make the last 6-7 miles anything but pure torture. Let's see...

[Stuttgart88]

May 27th 2012 - Edinburgh Marathon. Ambitious goal is to break 3:30, but I'll be happy with 3:40 probably.


My prediction for Edinburgh? My lack of regular really long runs will see me struggle for the last 6+ miles. I'll be doing well to get inside 3:30.


Did Edinburgh yesterday in......3:30:14 in baking heat, so pretty pleased.

With only a few miles to go (can't remember exactly - 6?) I was 4 minutes ahead of 8min p/m pace, so was heading for 3:26. My pacing up to then had been spot on. 3:30 is 8 mins p/m exactly, and I had planned to plug away doing 7:50 ~ 8 min miles and was doing just that, with a few sneaky 7:35s / 7:40s thrown in when I was feeling good. It's great being sligtly ahead of target as then you've got something to hold onto, rather than having something to chase when you are least able to. Despite feeling great all the way up to miles 19 and 20 I never felt cocky as I knew that the marathon can land a lethal punch at any time.

The first heavy blow came around mile 21 or 22, as predicted in my recent posts. My first 8:30 mile came in, then another and then a 8:59. The fitness was there, but the legs and hips were sore and started stiffening up. My 3:26 was now gone but 3:28 was still there if I could just whack out another 8 min mile (or thereabouts) for each of the last two miles. In ordinary circumstances I could practically hop an 8 minute mile but even with such a big prize in sight I could only manage another 8:29 and then a disappointing 8:58, and then the last 300+ yards to the finish went pretty quick.

15 seconds quicker and I could have said I was a 3 twenty-something marathon runner but I said at the start of the year I'd like to do 3:30 and I did just that. Paul O'Shea's mate did the race too and can testify just how hot it was.

I took a drink at every water station which kept me hydrated. I took 4 or 5 gels. One on one hour, another at two hours and then a few more later on. My best decision was to wear a £10 Nike white lightweight running cap which kept the sun of my shaved slaphead.

I know I can do quicker, especially if it's colder, but I am not committed enough to put in the regular long slow miles required. My lower back and hips have too much astroturf football in them from over the years and I know deep down that this marathon lark ain't good for me. Nor do I like an event that mainly requires hanging on rather than going out to attack something (10k, 10 miles (my favourite) or half-marathon are more positive). The heart rate just doesn't get high enough for most of a marathon. That's why that's my last marathon for a few years and it's back to triathlon for me now. Edinburgh was a good event, lovely coastal route and well-supported, but I just haven't got the marathon bug.

The kids thought the pandas in Edinburgh zoo were great.

Poznan and Gdansk up next and then my favourite event of the year - Windsor Triathlon.

[peadar1987]

I'd forgotten about this thread!

Ran it in 5:08:04, but I reckon the heat added about 20-25 minutes onto the time. Got to half way in 2 hours, and was still managing okay, but it just kept getting hotter and hotter, so I ended up walking nearly half of the second 21k. I was raging, because in cooler conditions in training I'd been able to run 30k in 3:15-ish, without too much bother.

To be honest, I though that time would see me right near the back of the field, but I ended up 6646th out of 23,000, not sure how that worked, but a lot of people must have been struggling even more than I was!

That's a super time anyway Stutts, I was knocking off 9:30 miles for the first half, and was pretty happy with that.

Still, there's always next time. I'm looking at doing the Glasgow half in September, and going for under 2 hours. Then possibly the full shebang in Dublin at the end of October, I know it won't be roasting then!

[Mad Moose]

Looking at my second marathon following Paris 2010. Berlin is one of the big 5 and I should have moved sooner but participation limit reached. Looking now at Munich on the 14th October. A nice time of year to do it too and places available albeit at 69 Euro entry. I recently completed a local Half Marathon The Potteries Half and it was hell. I tend to do my distance runs on the flat and this was anything but. Climb after climb after horrific climb and made it in just under 2 hours. Looking to again do Munich under 4 hours. Thats always my aim.