Rovers Accounts

[MariborKev]

Short piece in the business section of the Turbine today about Rovers accounts(picture is bigger than the article).

Retained loses have increased to €620,570 from €476,606 in 2009.

Apart from that, nothing else of any real note in the piece.

[peadar1987]

Sligo or Shams?

[Mark]

The last time I saw decent LOI coverage in the Turbine was back when St James Gate were in the league. I never read it.

[Ciaran W]

Is that an indian newspaper ?

[Dodge]

Yep, they hate the league. Doesn't mean they haven't got their facts right about Rovers accounts

[Louth4sam]

Sligo or Shams?

Seeing he isn't from Sligo then it's obviously Shamrock Rovers

[northwestexile]

"League of Ireland side Shamrock Rovers had retained losses of E620,570 in it's last financial year, newly files accounts for the club reveal.
The loss for the year to the end of November 2009 widened from E476,606 in the previous year, according to the abridged accounts. Despite a deficit of more than E200,000 in shareholders' funds, the accounts were prepared on a going concern basis.
However a note to the accounts said this "depends upon the company receiving future support from the backs, trade creditors, the Revenue Commissioners and from the shareholders and also a sustainable business plan for the foreseeable future".
The Hoops, which went into examinership five years ago, are owned by 400 fans. It is Ireland's most successful club, winning the league 15 times and the FAI Cup 24times. Rovers are currently joint top of the Airtricity league with St Patrick's Athletic.
Last week the team lost 3-0 on aggregate to Italian giants Juventus in the UEFA Europa League. The first leg, played in Rovers; Tallaght home ground, drem a crowd of 6,000" John Ihle, Sunday Tribune 8-8-10

[northwestexile]

Can somebody explain what the sentence in bold means

[Schumi]

Retained loses have increased to €620,570 from €476,606 in 2009.

Does this mean that they lost 620k last year or 144k?

[Charlie Darwin]

Does this mean that they lost 620k last year or 144k?
144k.


Can somebody explain what the sentence in bold means
Assets minus liabilities.

Haven't seen the article because the Tribune was sold out this afternoon so I'll have to wait until it goes online during the week. Journalists tend to be useless at reading clubs' accounts though so I wouldn't read too much into it.

[Dodge]

Journalists tend to be useless at reading clubs' accounts though so I wouldn't read too much into it.

They're as good as most armchair accounts around here (and thats not a slight on those who work in that profession)

Obviously haven't seen them but for Rovers to lose that much in the year they trebled their attendances, and increased income streams in pretty much every area bu multiples of that, it has to be a concern for them

[northwestexile]

Haven't seen the article because the Tribune was sold out this afternoon so I'll have to wait until it goes online during the week.

That is the whole article so wouldn't waste E2.50 unless you want the picture that goes with the article that is 3 times the size of the writing. In fairness it is more text about the league than is in the sports section.

[Poor Student]

Does this mean that they lost 620k last year or 144k?

Charlie gave you the answer there but just to explain further, wikipedia defines retained losses/earnings as "In accounting, retained earnings refers to the portion of net income which is retained by the corporation rather than distributed to its owners as dividends. Similarly, if the corporation takes a loss, then that loss is retained and called variously retained losses, accumulated losses or accumulated deficit. Retained earnings and losses are cumulative from year to year with losses offsetting earnings".

[SMorgan]

That's about the same as Dundalk FC lost last season.

[pineapple stu]

Doesn't mean they haven't got their facts right about Rovers accounts
Yeah, they were filed a couple of weeks ago with the CRO, so that's presumably what they were looking at. Actually making any sort of intelligent interpretation instead of just regurgitating the figures does seem to be beyond any sort of business journalist though. (Which isn't to challenge your later post that the results are a bit worrying.)

[Rasputin]

How are they losing so much money?
I thought they were operating with a profit last season.

[A face]

How are they losing so much money?
I thought they were operating with a profit last season.

I thought the same, is that not the case now?

[mrtndvn]

How are they losing so much money?
I thought they were operating with a profit last season.

Season and FYE are probably two different things.

[pineapple stu]

Nope; November year end. I think it was a Genesis Report recommendation that all clubs should change their accounts to that.

[dcfcsteve]

Season and FYE are probably two different things.

Even if it was, unless they found a big bag of money with their name on it somewhere it wouldn't change much.

I suspect most people to be surprised to hear that the 'model club' with the highest attendances are running with an increasing year-on-year deficit.

It really does show how unsustainable financially things are in the league.

[mrtndvn]

Even if it was, unless they found a big bag of money with their name on it somewhere it wouldn't change much.

I suspect most people to be surprised to hear that the 'model club' with the highest attendances are running with an increasing year-on-year deficit.

It really does show how unsustainable financially things are in the league.

I would be very surprised Steve, but I'd like a look at the accounts before I believed it.

[OneRedArmy]

I suspect most people to be surprised to hear that the 'model club' with the highest attendances are running with an increasing year-on-year deficit.Au contraire Steve, if you did a regression of attendence to loss over the last two decades, you'd find a very strong correlation between the clubs with the largest attendences and the largest losses.

Its like those steak houses in Texas that let you eat free if you eat a 72oz steak. If you don't eat it you pay a small fortune. Large ego'ed lads generally take up the challenge, and fail, whilst more sensible women realise they could never manage it and have a 6oz girls cut.

That analogy sounded better in my head, but the point stands: there is a very strong link between increased revenue leading to increased losses. LoI clubs almost inevitably grow themselves out of business (until they get bailed out in one shape or form).

[galwayjames]

the 400k they got for the juventus game would wipe that out wouldn't it?

[SkStu]

Au contraire Steve, if you did a regression of attendence to loss over the last two decades, you'd find a very strong correlation between the clubs with the largest attendences and the largest losses.

Its like those steak houses in Texas that let you eat free if you eat a 72oz steak. If you don't eat it you pay a small fortune. Large ego'ed lads generally take up the challenge, and fail, whilst more sensible women realise they could never manage it and have a 6oz girls cut.

That analogy sounded better in my head,.

so youre saying that Rovers are playing for high steaks?


*grabs coat*

[Dodge]

the 400k they got for the juventus game would wipe that out wouldn't it?

Depnds when they get it and whether they've incurred any more "day to day" losses this year. They had the Real Madrid game last year

[pineapple stu]

I suppose technically Platinum 1 had the Madrid game last year; I'd imagine the Juve game was worth much more to Rovers directly than the Real game (plus UEFA bonuses for two rounds in Europe, etc)

[hoopy]

the 400k they got for the juventus game

Don't believe everything you read

[Dodge]

I suppose technically Platinum 1 had the Madrid game last year; I'd imagine the Juve game was worth much more to Rovers directly than the Real game (plus UEFA bonuses for two rounds in Europe, etc)

The Juventus game would have incurred a massive amount of costs too; not just for the away leg (arranged at short notice) but at home too (rent, security etc)

[A face]

I suspect most people to be surprised to hear that the 'model club' with the highest attendances are running with an increasing year-on-year deficit. It really does show how unsustainable financially things are in the league.

It really does bring into the lime light the administrators of the league and how they operate. Given all that's gone on in this league the last few years to take the eye off the ball now is completely demoralising. Heres the question ... do they know what is actually happening? If they do then i hope they are freaked out over this because couldn't be described as the best way forward. Is anyone answerable for this?

Surely someone in the FAI is culpable for this? Or is 'more of the same' what we have to expect in the future? If so, when can we expect the league to be run correctly?

If this really is the case and i were a member of the 400 club, having entrusted the running of the club to the current board while paying i dont know how much of my money over the last few years, i'd be looking for the people responsible to step aside immediately and without incident and hand the controls over to someone who'll make a better hand of it.

Can we believe anything we've heard from the club over the last while? Seriously, is it all noise and dream with no substance behind it?

[L.T.F.C.]

Town made a profit last year. :D

[Shedendinvisibl]

so youre saying that Rovers are playing for high steaks?


*grabs coat*

It's a "rare" sight when a LOI club makes a profit to be fair but your example is "bull" ;)

[Lim till i die]

It really does bring into the lime light the administrators of the league and how they operate. Given all that's gone on in this league the last few years to take the eye off the ball now is completely demoralising. Heres the question ... do they know what is actually happening? If they do then i hope they are freaked out over this because couldn't be described as the best way forward. Is anyone answerable for this?

Surely someone in the FAI is culpable for this? Or is 'more of the same' what we have to expect in the future? If so, when can we expect the league to be run correctly?

If this really is the case and i were a member of the 400 club, having entrusted the running of the club to the current board while paying i dont know how much of my money over the last few years, i'd be looking for the people responsible to step aside immediately and without incident and hand the controls over to someone who'll make a better hand of it.

Can we believe anything we've heard from the club over the last while? Seriously, is it all noise and dream with no substance behind it?

http://tribewithted.mlblogs.com/shocked_woman-700490.jpg



Jaysus Face have a sit down man, where's the fire?!

Those figures aren't too shabby at all. :confused:*









*I apologise if you were being sarcastic as opposed to hysterical.

[Dodge]

Can we believe anything we've heard from the club over the last while? Seriously, is it all noise and dream with no substance behind it?

Well you haven't heard what the members have heard, and as long as they're told the story, and they're happy with it then I cna't see how anyone else can be angr about it

[Charlie Darwin]

I'd probably wait to see the actual accounts before demanding the board step down.

[A face]

Those figures aren't too shabby at all.

If they spend more than they bring in then they are seriously shabby


*I apologise if you were being sarcastic as opposed to hysterical.

I know i'm going over the top, but i do want to labour the point i'm making. Dont get me wrong, i loved the rags to riches story, LOI vagrants come good, moses and their little piece of heaven, walt disney stuff, it was up there with Bambi and the rest of them .... i lapped it up, but its a crock. I am ticked off man, i'm not going to hide it but if those figures are real then i'm not going to listen to one more bit of pontificating for Rovers or the FAI


Well you haven't heard what the members have heard, and as long as they're told the story, and they're happy with it then I can't see how anyone else can be angr about it


I'd probably wait to see the actual accounts before demanding the board step down.

I know that lads, i was careful to say 'If the figures are true' (or words to that effect) but are you not ticked off of having to listen to people, mostly the powers that be using 'the model club' as a get out clause, going on about how great Rovers are.






And i geniunely think that if clubs dont go down the route of Rovers (and do not over spend) then the league wont progress.

[Lim till i die]

If they spend more than they bring in then they are seriously shabby



Name me 4 of the 22 clubs that don't consisently spend more than they bring in??

100k on a turnover of what, say, 2 million*, isn't exactly Cork City1 levels of lunacy



I know i'm going over the top, but i do want to labour the point i'm making. Dont get me wrong, i loved the rags to riches story, LOI vagrants come good, moses and their little piece of heaven, walt disney stuff, it was up there with Bambi and the rest of them .... i lapped it up, but its a crock. I am ticked off man,



You're definitely being sarcastic here, or are having some kind of seizure!! :D

"You don't understand. The League coulda had class. The League coulda been a contender. The League coulda been someone Charley, instead of a bum, which is what The League is , let's face it. The League is a bum. It was you, Charley."



i'm not going to listen to one more bit of pontificating for Rovers or the FAI



The last "Model Club" was Galway United. :bulgy:

I'd be worried for you if you've been listening to any of it to be honest.






*This figure is plucked completely out of my aras and is open to correction.

[Rasputin]

We ended last season with an operating profit, 6 figure one at that.

[dfx-]

If this really is the case and i were a member of the 400 club, having entrusted the running of the club to the current board while paying i dont know how much of my money over the last few years...

The 400 club has been subsumed into the Rovers member's club, the 400 club no longer exists. :)

[OneRedArmy]

We ended last season with an operating profit, 6 figure one at that.A few weeks of paying Boco's wages will soon undo that.

I presume you're not paying him two grand a week this time?

[pineapple stu]

Think you want to look at changing your location there, dfx-. ;)

[Dodge]

We ended last season with an operating profit, 6 figure one at that.

Even with the couple of "lads we need money this week or else..." type scares?

[dfx-]

Think you want to look at changing your location there, dfx-. ;)

Touche, our pr ickly fruited moderator...

I would do had I said profitability ;)

[pineapple stu]

I think solvency is wrong too. :p

(Unless you want to go to the really technicaly definition of insolvency, in which case Bohs are solvent too)

[Dodge]

Assets minus liabilities.


Just getting back to the issue. What assets would Rovers have? Can't think of too many in fairness

[Lim till i die]

Just getting back to the issue. What assets would Rovers have? Can't think of too many in fairness

Goodwill. It's intangible but potentially worth LOADS!!!

[pineapple stu]

Just getting back to the issue. What assets would Rovers have? Can't think of too many in fairness
For what it's worth, their balance sheet at Nov 09 and Nov 08 was -


2009 2008
Intangible assets 1214 2023
Tangible assets 87412 13303
Investments 0 100

Debtors 112818 60939
Cash 10226 10226

Creditors -414653 -145714

Nett liabilities -202983 -59123

By way of supposing, tangible assets may be training gear? Debtors is presumably up because of more prize money due at the year end. Cash is presumably a dormant no 2 account cos the balance hasn't changed. Creditors are broken down as follows -


2009 2008
Overdraft 39645 34918
Loan 2501 0
Leases 21605 3434
Trade creditors 108873 11817
Other 5091 0
Accruals 128623 20099
PAYE 108315 73443
Interesting figure there is the trade creditors flying up. There's also no mention of stock anywhere; do the club or Umbro run the shop?


Well you haven't heard what the members have heard, and as long as they're told the story, and they're happy with it then I cna't see how anyone else can be angry about it
You've been watching events unfold in Dalymount as voted for by the fully-informed members, yeah? :p

[Dodge]

Umbro run it. John Coutney gave a basic outline of how it works on the Pats forum (previous one). They source all non Umbro products too

An icrease of 35k in PAYE indicates how much their wages have went up

[Schumi]

What assets would Rovers have? Can't think of too many in fairness

Neal Fenn.

[OneRedArmy]

Goodwill. It's intangible but potentially worth LOADS!!!Its very hard to put an accurate present value on every single Dublin taxi driver having religiously attended games in the Milltown era but no longer attending for a variety of reasons....

[hoopy]

Its very hard to put an accurate present value on every single Dublin taxi driver having religiously attended games in the Milltown era but no longer attending for a variety of reasons....

http://www.irishexaminer.com/sport/columnists/liam-mackey/hoops-dreams-and-nightmares-127428.html They not only don't attend but don't drop off at Milltown either :weep: