Liam Boyce

[Stuttgart88]

I would suss out, and weed out by whatever legitimate means neccessary, any player in the Northern Ireland set up who has future designs on defecting to the Republic of Ireland.Maybe you should hire George Smiley?

[DannyInvincible]

I would suss out, and weed out by whatever legitimate means neccessary, any player in the Northern Ireland set up who has future designs on defecting to the Republic of Ireland.

For example, the IFA should be fast tracking a lot more players. Force their hand. As quickly and efficiently as possible.

Personally, I don't really have an issue with that. Ultimately, the choice is still left to the player. It's obvious what the IFA are trying to do, but if it forces a player's hand to the IFA's benefit and is entirely within the rules, then fair enough; what can you do? The reason I mentioned the fast-tracking and guilt-tripping was because the ill-tempered reaction of the two players concerned (those mentioned above who vowed never to play for Northern Ireland again) was exactly what you'd expect under such circumstances where someone is being hounded - or however you'd like to describe it - into doing something against their will.

I just find it a bit rich that certain Northern Ireland fans (not necessarily accusing yourself of this either, by the way) seem to criticise the FAI with sinister insinuations of child abuse and the like if they dare attempt to encourage a northern-born player to play for us. The fact is that the IFA are playing the very same game in guilt-tripping players into staying with them or enticing them to stay with the prospect of being fast-tracked into the first team. It's the moral inconsistency and seeming hypocrisy of this viewpoint that gets to me really, as if the IFA operate any differently from the FAI. Naturally, both associations will operate in favour of their own interests within the rules. They both exist to ensure that the best set of players available to them will line out for them. There should be nothing too difficult about acknowledging and accepting that rather than setting the FAI out as some sort of unique amoral/immoral pariah association.


Once their gone, there's no coming back under current rules - proper order.

Put up - or get out TF.

So, essentially, you have no opinion on Devine then? Or did you just forget I asked you specifically about him again?

[Noelys Guitar]

I would suss out, and weed out by whatever legitimate means neccessary, any player in the Northern Ireland set up who has future designs on defecting to the Republic of Ireland.

For example, the IFA should be fast tracking a lot more players. Force their hand. As quickly and efficiently as possible.

Once they're gone, there's no coming back under current rules - proper order.

Put up - or get out TF.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ui5ec35Toc4

[Mr_Parker]

I, for one, would expect the IFA to flush out those who they know to be waverers at the first opportunity


I take it you have written to the IFA demanding they follow your principled approach and call on them to immediately get rid of those waiverers who swung between England and NI?

[Not Brazil]

ill-tempered reaction of the two players concerned (those mentioned above who vowed never to play for Northern Ireland again) was exactly what you'd expect under such circumstances where someone is being hounded - or however you'd like to describe it - into doing something against their will.

So, essentially, you have no opinion on Devine then? Or did you just forget I asked you specifically about him again?

I am unaware that any player has ever represented Northern Ireland "against their will".

If they don't want to play, all they have to do is say "I'm off".

They shouldn't be hounded.

The two players mentioned earlier, rather than be hounded to play for us, should never be selected to represent Northern Ireland again.

As a supporter, I most certainly do not wish to see any player represent Northern Ireland, who doesn't really want to - in fact, on the contrary, I want any such players weeded out.

With regards to Devine, I'd call him up into the Senior squad later in this campaign. Suss his intentions out.

[Not Brazil]

I take it you have written to the IFA demanding they follow your principled approach and call on them to immediately get rid of those waiverers who swung between England and NI?

Not every English born player is eligible play for Northern Ireland, even if they wanted to.

But, you know that.

[bwagner]

Boyce played last night for the Norths under 21s

[DannyInvincible]

I am unaware that any player has ever represented Northern Ireland "against their will".

Nor I. Although the players in question clearly had reservations over being wherever they were on tour with the Northern Ireland under-18 squad given the outburst and the fact that at least one of them had previously expressed a wish to leave the Northern Ireland set-up a year previously only to be "hounded" (as the original OWC contributor described it) to stay by Paul Kee. I think they'd fit the definition of reluctant participants. I'd imagine there are plenty of others in two minds playing within the Northern Ireland footballing structure also.


If they don't want to play, all they have to do is say "I'm off".

They shouldn't be hounded.

The two players mentioned earlier, rather than be hounded to play for us, should never be selected to represent Northern Ireland again.

As a supporter, I most certainly do not wish to see any player represent Northern Ireland, who doesn't really want to - in fact, on the contrary, I want any such players weeded out.

No issues there really. The players have made their future intentions pretty clear.

What if they were to waver again and plead for selection with Northern Ireland again at some point in the future, however? In essence, Devine went one step further than they have by actually partaking in an FAI training camp - albeit without the explicit outburst to his coaches at the IFA - but you'd be willing to have him in a future Northern Ireland senior squad? That appears to be a contradiction, in my mind.

[seanfhear]

Its beginning to look like NI may fast track some outragously talented 4 year olds in some dead rubber qualifying match just to test their "reliability"

[Not Brazil]

What if they were to waver again and plead for selection with Northern Ireland again at some point in the future, however? In essence, Devine went one step further than they have by actually partaking in an FAI training camp - albeit without the explicit outburst to his coaches at the IFA - but you'd be willing to have him in a future Northern Ireland senior squad? That appears to be a contradiction, in my mind.

Personally, I wouldn't have them about the place.

Regarding Devine - the purpose of putting him in a future Senior squad (if he's any good) is to help him make his mind up. If he doesn't really want to play for Northern Ireland, I don't want him playing for Northern Ireland.

I think you'll see quite a lot of fast tracking by the IFA, going forward.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Hmm, 'fast-tracking' in competitive games, yeah right. Even the IFA aren't that stupid.
;)

Though I'm sure there'll be a few Irish cast-offs like Gorman about the place. Still good luck to him;He must be desperate!

[co. down green]

The IFA have been fast tracking players for years as a way of 'persuading' players to stay, or join their team. We saw this with Shane Duffy, it was also used as a carrot to tempt back Michael O'Connor, with the promise of a senior cap. Former Ireland u15international John Gorman seems to have got his reward for leaving the Ireland youth set-up to join the IFA team, by being included in recent senior squads. I expect to see Ryan Brobbel get the same fast tracking. Brobbel attended several Ireland training camps over a 12 month period before being 'persuaded' to join the IFA team. Former England international Oliver Norwood has also been rewarded with a senior cap for his decision to leave England.

Fast tracking by the IFA seems to be being used as a method of tempting players from other associations, as much as it is a desperate attempt to keep players who clearly have an allegience and affinity with Ireland.

[Not Brazil]

Hmm, 'fast-tracking' in competitive games, yeah right. Even the IFA aren't that stupid.


It didn't do any harm last night.:D

[Not Brazil]

as much as it is a desperate attempt to keep players who clearly have an allegience and affinity with Ireland.

It's a darn good way, going forward, for, emm, helping some players make their minds up.

Put up - or get out TF.

[ArdeeBhoy]

It didn't do any harm last night.

Good result, but Gorman on for one minute, how sad was that by NW. He might never play again.....
;)

[Not Brazil]

Good result, but Gorman on for one minute, how sad was that by NW. He might never play again.....
;)

No "sad" at all - NW rates the kid very highly. Got him nailed down for the future now. Well played Nigel.

Call ups for Ferguson and Boyce next month please.

[ArdeeBhoy]

Yeah, like Ferguson and Boyce will be pitched in, straight up v.Italy. As I said, even the IFA aren't that stupid?
But then maybe they are...

[co. down green]

Got him nailed down for the future now. Well played Nigel.


Surely he was already 'nailed down' as he had already changed associations ?

[Not Brazil]

Yeah, like Ferguson and Boyce will be pitched in, straight up v.Italy. As I said, even the IFA aren't that stupid?
But then maybe they are...

2 minutes at the end of the game in the Faroes perhaps - depending on how the match is going?

Or, if we are being tanked by Italy (quite possible) - get them on.

Of course, if they are not committed to Northern Ireland, they'll withdraw from the squad - win, win for us. We either keep them for good (that would be great), or, we suss them for not being committed to the Northern Ireland cause - that's good too...call their bluff, and get them OTF, if that's the case.

Help them make their minds up about their future - you know it makes sense.

[Not Brazil]

Surely he was already 'nailed down' as he had already changed associations ?

He'd only played schoolboys for the Republic?

[DannyInvincible]

Personally, I wouldn't have them about the place.

Regarding Devine - the purpose of putting him in a future Senior squad (if he's any good) is to help him make his mind up. If he doesn't really want to play for Northern Ireland, I don't want him playing for Northern Ireland.

You're really going about this the hard way. So you'd allow him to waver then, at least for now? Even though you said you wanted waverers "OTF" a page or two back. If he still has to make his mind up, he's clearly not yet fully committed to Northern Ireland, which is another way of saying he's wavering, right?

Is it more the way in which the other two announced their wish never to play for Northern Ireland again that you found objectionable? What is your opinion on Devine having joined an FAI training camp? Presumably, if you're happy to have him back in the IFA's set-up, you have no major qualms with what he did, but that seems at odds with what you've been saying previously. Say, instead of their outburst, the other two had decided to reject an under-age Northern Ireland call-up to join up with some FAI training camp at the same time, but then made themselves available for IFA selection again afterwards, presumably you'd be open to calling them into the senior Northern Ireland squad, if good enough? Or even, what if joining the FAI training camp on a once-off didn't involve turning down a Northern Ireland call-up?


Good result, but Gorman on for one minute, how sad was that by NW. He might never play again.....
;)

Ha, I had been aware he had come on, but not that it was for a mere minute.


Surely he was already 'nailed down' as he had already changed associations ?

I think it depends on whether he would have been originally registered with the FAI for a competitive under-age fixture. I don't know if he ever did appear for us in a competitive game or not though.

[Not Brazil]

You're really going about this the hard way. So you'd allow him to waver then, at least for now? Even though you said you wanted waverers "OTF" a page or two back. If he still has to make his mind up, he's clearly not yet fully committed to Northern Ireland, which is another way of saying he's wavering, right?

Is it more the way in which the other two announced their wish never to play for Northern Ireland again that you found objectionable? What is your opinion on Devine having joined an FAI training camp? Presumably, if you're happy to have him back in the IFA's set-up, you have no major qualms with what he did, but that seems at odds with what you've been saying previously. Say, instead of their outburst, the other two had decided to reject an under-age Northern Ireland call-up to join up with some FAI training camp at the same time, but then made themselves available for IFA selection again afterwards, presumably you'd be open to calling them into the senior Northern Ireland squad, if good enough? Or even, what if joining the FAI training camp on a once-off didn't involve turning down a Northern Ireland call-up?


DI,

Firstly, you and I both know that nothing has really changed in terms of eligibility pertaining to Northern Irish born players, in spite of all the recent hullaballo.

Unfortunately, some in the IFA were slow learners on the issue, and we had to witness the cringeworthy charade that culminated in the recent CAS ruling.

Now, given that the penny might have finally dropped with the IFA (or, at least, begun to drop), perhaps it's an opportunity for the IFA to draw a line in the sand and devise new strategies to deal with the hand they have been dealt.

Specifically with regards to Devine - I understand he went to FAI "camp" pre CAS ruling?

Going forward, the IFA need to test the commitment of players like Devine - it's as simple as that.

I think the acid test - for those good enough - is to call them into a Senior squad for a competitive game at the earliest opportunity - I don't believe Devine is near there yet btw.

My rule of thumb is very straightforward on this issue - if you really don't want to play for Northern Ireland, don't.

If you do, you'll have my full support.

[ArdeeBhoy]

My rule of thumb is very straightforward on this issue - if you really don't want to play for Northern Ireland, don't.

So presumably you're not in favour of Messrs. Gorman, Darville & Norwood playing for other international teams then??

The choice lies with players up until they get a full competitive cap. Just be grateful UEFA haven't insisted on a GB or even an AI team to facilitate ending your alleged ambiguity....
;)

The rest is irrelevant.

[Not Brazil]

The choice lies with players up until they get a full competitive cap.


Err, yes, we know.

And...was there some other point you are trying to make, other than stating what we all know already?

[Not Brazil]

Just be grateful UEFA haven't insisted on a GB or even an AI team to facilitate ending your alleged ambiguity....
;)


Eh?

You haven't really thought that through AB.

In your fantasy world of a singular UK team, and a singular Ireland team, you are aware that "ambiguity" would still exist for players born in Northern Ireland?

You are aware that players born in Northern Ireland would be eligible to play for both, and could switch (in accordance with current FIFA Statutes) in exactly the same way as now?

What a strange, but not wholly unsurprising, thing for you to post.

[ArdeeBhoy]

So why keep banging on about 'integrity' ?

[Not Brazil]

So why keep banging on about 'integrity' ?

I'm not banging on about it - I'm merely pointing out that if a player really doesn't want to play for Northern Ireland, in my opinion, he displays a gross lack of integrity every time he represents Northern Ireland.

I don't want players who don't want to play for Northern Ireland, playing for Northern Ireland.

Nothing unreasonable about that.

[Mr_Parker]

Not every English born player is eligible play for Northern Ireland, even if they wanted to.

But, you know that.

And that comment is relevant how? Either you demand that waiverers are shunned by the IFA or else toddle on.

[Mr_Parker]

I'm not banging on about it - I'm merely pointing out that if a player really doesn't want to play for Northern Ireland, in my opinion, he displays a gross lack of integrity every time he represents Northern Ireland.

I don't want players who don't want to play for Northern Ireland, playing for Northern Ireland.

Nothing unreasonable about that.

What a stupid statement. If a player doesn't want to play for a national association he won't.

[gustavo]

Closing thread until such time as Liam declares for us.The usual suspects who wish to continue going round in circles over eligibility and declaration can do so at the Player Eligibility thread