Liam Boyce

[EalingGreen]

Welcome back EG, glad you've recovered from your bout of eligibilityitis :)Thanks for the kind wishes, but this thread is about Liam Boyce.

You know, the young kid who has been ignored by the FAI all this time...:rolleyes:

[DannyInvincible]

You know, the young kid who has been ignored by the FAI all this time...:rolleyes:

If the gentlemen's agreement agreed with the IFA in 1999 still stands due to the goodwill of the FAI - in spite, of course, of the IFA's recent irresponsible attempt to breach and dismantle it wholesale - then you'll know that Boyce has to volunteer his interest to the FAI before they call him into any team. :)

[backstothewall]

Oh and btw, Beaglehole drafted Boyce straight into the NI U-21's, when he had just turned 19 and had barely half a season with Cliftonville.


Yeah, but there are direct flights between Hamburg and Dublin, and he knows Shane Duffy. Its just easier for everybody this way.

:)

[seanfhear]

Go with your heart Liam.

Least that way if you have any regrets you can say that it was the heart that led ya.

[co. down green]

Thanks for the kind wishes, but this thread is about Liam Boyce.

You know, the young kid who has been ignored by the FAI all this time...:rolleyes:

Never fear EG, The FAI have a whole army of willing spies who track all possible recruits in the North, young Boyce's file was opened when he was playing for Rushlight Celtic in the Belfast Sunday league, afew years back. :)

[EalingGreen]

Never fear EG, The FAI have a whole army of willing spies who track all possible recruits in the North, young Boyce's file was opened when he was playing for Rushlight Celtic in the Belfast Sunday league, afew years back. :)In that case, does his non-inclusion at any level for ROI mean that he is not considered good enough by the FAI to be worth approaching, even at under-age level?

Or that he has been approached, but declined?

[irishfan86]

In that case, does his non-inclusion at any level for ROI mean that he is not considered good enough by the FAI to be worth approaching, even at under-age level?

Or that he has been approached, but declined?

Northern Ireland's world-class coaching facilities were decided as more suitable for his early footballing education.

But when it comes to senior international football, he might want to play for an actual nation... ;)

[NewryMan]

Is anyone monitoring Padraig Almond's transfer from Sligo to Paccos Ferriera in Portugal. Seems odd. Must be a player with good potential. Anyone know anything about him?

[fhtb]

I agree. He should be approached.


They should be crafty enough to have a third party guage his interest.


If so we should definitely approach him.

nice guys.

[EalingGreen]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/irish/8964485.stm
Steve Beaglehole applauds Liam Boyce transfer

Liam Boyce will cap a whirlwind week by starting for Northern Ireland Under-21s in their European Championship qualifier against San Marino on Friday.

The striker has returned to the squad's base after securing a dream move from Cliftonville to Werder Bremen.

U-21 boss Steve Beaglehole applauded the player for moving to Germany.

"Not everyone of his age would do that and it is to his credit that he was keen to go. I'm delighted and it could be the making of him," said Beaglehole.

Boyce is due to join the Bundesliga club's Under-23 side in one of the most surprising transfers of the summer.

"I know one or two clubs in England were looking at Liam but nothing came of it," said Beaglehole.

"Liam will get a great football education in Bremen - they have invested in raw potential and he can be anything he wants to be.

"He is an old-fashioned centre forward, who does his best work in the box - he is physical, brave and can finish.

"What Liam needs to do now is build up his fitness but that should come naturally as he switches from part-time to full-time football."

[Mr_Parker]

Thanks for the kind wishes, but this thread is about Liam Boyce.

You know, the young kid who has been ignored by the FAI all this time...:rolleyes:

Selected, no. Ignored...maybe he just hasn't posted his letter yet. http://www.irishleaguesupporters.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

[Not Brazil]

Selected, no. Ignored...maybe he just hasn't posted his letter yet. http://www.irishleaguesupporters.com/forums/images/smilies/wink.gif

If young Liam has his heart set on playing for the Republic, perhaps he will show some integrity and get his letter posted to the FAI soon - if he doesn't see his future with Northern Ireland, no point fcuking around (denying someone who really wants the shirt) eh?

And don't dilly dally on the way....

[Mr_Parker]

If young Liam has his heart set on playing for the Republic, perhaps he will show some integrity and get his letter posted to the FAI soon - if he doesn't see his future with Northern Ireland, no point fcuking around (denying someone who really wants the shirt) eh?

And don't dilly dally on the way....

His decision and no one elses. Whatever that is he will have my full support.

[Not Brazil]

His decision and no one elses.

Absolutely.

Best made sooner, rather than later.

[Mr_Parker]

Absolutely.

Best made sooner, rather than later.

No doubt he would do so when it suits him and not someone elses agenda.

[EalingGreen]

No doubt he would do so when it suits him and not someone elses agenda.So you believe players should be allowed to suit themselves come what may, without any consideration for principle or integrity etc?

We'll remember that the next time someone shafts Cliftonville or the ROI, purely out of self-interest...:rolleyes:

[Brendan 82]

So you believe players should be allowed to suit themselves come what may, without any consideration for principle or integrity etc?


I certainly do anyway. As long as the rules (FIFA & legal) are followed, I have no problem with the decisions that players make (self interested or not). Trying to ascribe values like "principle" and "integrity" to uneducated football players is folly. They'll make the decisions that suit them best

[Charlie Darwin]

So you believe players should be allowed to suit themselves come what may, without any consideration for principle or integrity etc?

We'll remember that the next time someone shafts Cliftonville or the ROI, purely out of self-interest...:rolleyes:
Check out the Shane Lowry thread - no bad feeling or sour grapes from anyone.

http://foot.ie/threads/124017-Shane-Lowry

[Not Brazil]

No doubt he would do so when it suits him and not someone elses agenda.

The only "agenda" I would have ( and, I'd be reasonably confident it would be shared by many of my fellow Northern Ireland supporters) is to ensure we are not dicked about by tosspots with an "agenda".

Message is very clear - if a player doesn't really want to play for Northern Ireland, clear off and let someone who does honour the shirt.

If a player does really want to play for Northern Ireland with pride in the honour bestowed upon him, he'll have unwavering support.

If a player wants to dick about, he'll be treated with appropriate contempt.

That's pretty fair, don't you think?

[co. down green]

If young Liam has his heart set on playing for the Republic, perhaps he will show some integrity and get his letter posted to the FAI soon - if he doesn't see his future with Northern Ireland, no point fcuking around (denying someone who really wants the shirt) eh?

And don't dilly dally on the way....

Well it would seem that some players have been attempting to make that decision, but are being pressurised by the underage IFA managers to stay.

According to a reliable source over on the 'Are We A Country' website.......

Lads alarming news from our u18s, by a nailed on source 2 players mouthing off on the tour being ****ed off, never again wanting to play for NI going to go to the ROI. One of the players apparently had told P Kee previously last year with the u17s he didn't want to play and apparently the manager hounded him over a period of months bending over backwards for him to return. He inturn went on this tour and after getting subed went mouthing off he's never playing for f**ckn NI again. His mate in the team is supposedly saying the same. Don't really want to mention the players in question but apparently their behaviour was rubbish.

[DannyInvincible]

So you believe players should be allowed to suit themselves come what may, without any consideration for principle or integrity etc?

What do you suggest should be done? As a dual citizen he has the choice to play for two teams. Players are always going to act in self-interest. Humans have a general tendency to do that. You're deluded if you think otherwise, or that they'd take your agenda into consideration. In this instance, "principle" and "integrity" are just words to mask your own self-interest. For whatever reasons, maybe it suits Boyce to give up his time for Northern Ireland now. And for other reasons, maybe it'll suit him to switch to us at some point in the future. Get off your high-horse.

[Mr_Parker]

So you believe players should be allowed to suit themselves come what may, without any consideration for principle or integrity etc?

We'll remember that the next time someone shafts Cliftonville or the ROI, purely out of self-interest...:rolleyes:

Declaring his footballing nationality, one way or the other, has nothing to do with his integrity nor could it be seen as him acting purely out of self-interest. Chosing either association is shafting no one. It will be an adult acting on his free will based on his reasons and as per his nationality allows him to do so within the FIFA Statutes.

[dantheman]

Liam should get involved with the NI U-21's to try and bring as many as possible over to the land of milk and honey that is playing for the FAI

[DannyInvincible]

Well it would seem that some players have been attempting to make that decision, but are being pressurised by the underage IFA managers to stay.

According to a reliable source over on the 'Are We A Country' website.......

Lads alarming news from our u18s, by a nailed on source 2 players mouthing off on the tour being ****ed off, never again wanting to play for NI going to go to the ROI. One of the players apparently had told P Kee previously last year with the u17s he didn't want to play and apparently the manager hounded him over a period of months bending over backwards for him to return. He inturn went on this tour and after getting subed went mouthing off he's never playing for f**ckn NI again. His mate in the team is supposedly saying the same. Don't really want to mention the players in question but apparently their behaviour was rubbish.

It's well-known that Shane Duffy was put under similar pressure to stick with Northern Ireland. In fact, Worthington, as well as guilting him and Beaglehole having fast-tracked him through their youth set-up, even called him into the senior squad for a game after Duffy had made it very clear that he wanted to play for us simply in order to make a scapegoat out of Duffy and draw attention to his "dropping out" of the squad. On the back of the illusion that Duffy was in a similar set of circumstances to Darron Gibson et al and the subsequent publicity the stunt garnered, the IFA breached the gentlemen's agreement with the FAI and went off to CAS with Daniel Kearns.

[Mr_Parker]

The only "agenda" I would have ( and, I'd be reasonably confident it would be shared by many of my fellow Northern Ireland supporters) is to ensure we are not dicked about by tosspots with an "agenda".

Message is very clear - if a player doesn't really want to play for Northern Ireland, clear off and let someone who does honour the shirt.

If a player does really want to play for Northern Ireland with pride in the honour bestowed upon him, he'll have unwavering support.

If a player wants to dick about, he'll be treated with appropriate contempt.

That's pretty fair, don't you think?

Who in the NI squad out in Slovenia doesn't want to play for them? Surely once they have declared they have shown that your assertion is not true? If on the other hand you are refering to underage players, that's what they are, underage as viewed by FIFA and free to choose for themselves.

[irishultra]

hope it works out for him :) who knows

[Predator]

Well it would seem that some players have been attempting to make that decision, but are being pressurised by the underage IFA managers to stay.

According to a reliable source over on the 'Are We A Country' website.......

Lads alarming news from our u18s, by a nailed on source 2 players mouthing off on the tour being ****ed off, never again wanting to play for NI going to go to the ROI. One of the players apparently had told P Kee previously last year with the u17s he didn't want to play and apparently the manager hounded him over a period of months bending over backwards for him to return. He inturn went on this tour and after getting subed went mouthing off he's never playing for f**ckn NI again. His mate in the team is supposedly saying the same. Don't really want to mention the players in question but apparently their behaviour was rubbish. As DannyInvincible has noted, plenty of players were and evidently still are being 'hounded' to stay. Obviously it's the manager's job to try to keep his best players, but I would hope that there is a point where a manager has the courtesy to respect a player's decision. No player should be given a guilt trip to make him stay, nor should he be fast-tracked.

[Predator]

nice guys.Oh, so you're still here, troll? Magnificent. We were wondering if you were ever going to actually address the posters who took the time to reply to you.

[Not Brazil]

Lads alarming news from our u18s, by a nailed on source 2 players mouthing off on the tour being ****ed off, never again wanting to play for NI going to go to the ROI. One of the players apparently had told P Kee previously last year with the u17s he didn't want to play and apparently the manager hounded him over a period of months bending over backwards for him to return. He inturn went on this tour and after getting subed went mouthing off he's never playing for f**ckn NI again. His mate in the team is supposedly saying the same. Don't really want to mention the players in question but apparently their behaviour was rubbish.

You left out the bit from the same source which stated:

"it causes unrest with the other players as one actually passed comment as to" why don't you f**ck of then." Enough said i think."

Shame on Paul Kee and ther coaching staff for "hounding" such individuals.

They should simply have asked the same (extremely salient) question as the player above - perhaps a little more "diplomatically".

No place, and no compromise, for those who don't want the shirt.

Simple as that.

[greendeiseboy]

You left out the bit from the same source which stated:

"it causes unrest with the other players as one actually passed comment as to" why don't you f**ck of then." Enough said i think."

Shame on Paul Kee and ther coaching staff for "hounding" such individuals.

They should simply have asked the same (extremely salient) question as the player above - perhaps a little more "diplomatically".

No place, and no compromise, for those who don't want the shirt.

Simple as that.

Have to say, I agree wholeheartedly with you there.

[Not Brazil]

No player should be given a guilt trip to make him stay, nor should he be fast-tracked.

Why should a player not be fast tracked - provided it doesn't compromise the overall team effort?

Flush those who aren't committed to the Northern Ireland cause out as quickly as possible - if they are good enough for selection for the senior team, pick them. If that causes them a dilemma - good!

If they don't wish to commit - fcuk them. It's "goodbye, and good luck".

[dantheman]

Have to agree with Not Brazil here, only the establishment of FAI training camps in the North will resolve this matter once for all.

[Not Brazil]

the establishment of FAI training camps in the North will resolve this matter once for all.

That's an, err, interesting thought - on many levels.

However - whatever it takes to weed out those who are not committed to the Northern Ireland cause as quickly and efficiently as possible gets my vote. No compromise.

[Predator]

Why should a player not be fast tracked - provided it doesn't compromise the overall team effort?

Flush those who aren't committed to the Northern Ireland cause out as quickly as possible - if they are good enough for selection for the senior team, pick them. If that causes them a dilemma - good!By all means, if a player is good enough to be included in the senior team, select him. However, what I find to be objectionable is the deliberate fast-tracking of players, not based on talent, but simply because they've been considering changing. The inclusion of unproven 16 and 17 year old players who have a handful of U17/U19 caps in senior teams is almost farcical in my opinion.

[Not Brazil]

By all means, if a player is good enough to be included in the senior team, select him. However, what I find to be objectionable is the deliberate fast-tracking of players, not based on talent, but simply because they've been considering changing. The inclusion of unproven 16 and 17 year old players who have a handful of U17/U19 caps in senior teams is almost farcical in my opinion.

Have you anyone specifically in mind, whose inclusion in a Northern Ireland Senior squad you found "objectionable"?

Why do you find it "objectionable"?

I find it "objectionable" when players in a Northern Ireland shirt start mouthing off they're "never playing for f**ckn NI again", and threaten to go to the Republic team.

I say - get them OTF asap. Don't let the door hit their arse on the way out.

[Stuttgart88]

Who said that NB? I haven't been paying attention.

[Predator]

Have you anyone specifically in mind, whose inclusion in a Northern Ireland Senior squad you found "objectionable"?Take Shane Duffy for example. It's well documented that Worthington singled him out for fast-tracking. He was called into an IFA U21 squad aged just 16, after he had attended an FAI training camp and he was later included in the squad to play Italy, aged 17 and still just playing U18 football for Everton, with the main reason being to deter him from switching to Ireland. I'd say we might see a few more players fast-tracked for the same reason.


Why do you find it "objectionable"?I've explained why I find it to be objectionable. I think it makes more sense if players are selected on merit, rather than as an incentive to stay with a certain association. A player who has shown desires of switching shouldn't be lured back with the empty promise of an international future.


I find it "objectionable" when players in a Northern Ireland shirt start mouthing off they're "never playing for f**ckn NI again", and threaten to go to the Republic team.That's a legitimate objection to have, since you're an IFA supporter. However, that report from one of OWC's posters is anecdotal and we don't know if any players have actually said such things.


I say - get them OTF asap. Don't let the door hit their arse on the way out.What would you say to players like Michael O'Connor or Tony Kane? Those players obviously were not fully committed to the IFA when they played for the FAI. How about players such as Dan Devine, who attended an FAI training camp, but decided to stay with the IFA. What is your opinion of them?

[Not Brazil]

Take Shane Duffy for example. It's well documented that Worthington singled him out for fast-tracking. He was called into an IFA U21 squad aged just 16, after he had attended an FAI training camp and he was later included in the squad to play Italy, aged 17 and still just playing U18 football for Everton, with the main reason being to deter him from switching to Ireland. I'd say we might see a few more players fast-tracked for the same reason.

I've explained why I find it to be objectionable. I think it makes more sense if players are selected on merit, rather than as an incentive to stay with a certain association. A player who has shown desires of switching shouldn't be lured back with the empty promise of an international future.

That's a legitimate objection to have, since you're an IFA supporter. However, that report from one of OWC's posters is anecdotal and we don't know if any players have actually said such things.

What would you say to players like Michael O'Connor or Tony Kane? Those players obviously were not fully committed to the IFA when they played for the FAI. How about players such as Dan Devine, who attended an FAI training camp, but decided to stay with the IFA. What is your opinion of them?

1. NW rated Shane Duffy very highly indeed. He saw him as an integral part of the Senior Northern Ireland team for years to come. The IFA tried, and failed, to protect their asset. I, for one, would expect the IFA to flush out those who they know to be waverers at the first opportunity, and by the most effective means. For an exceptional prospect, I would expect them to be fast tracked into the Senoir squad - make them commit or get OTF. No compromises, no softly softly. You either commit to Northern Ireland, or get out. It doesn't matter who you are, or how good you are (or might be) - all, or nothing.

2. Frankly, if you find a comparatively small Association taking whatever legitimate measures neccessary to protect their interests in the face of the CAS Ruling, and a competitively hostile, much larger, neighbouring Association, "objectionable", you are a fool.

3. I support all players who commit fully to the Northern Ireland cause. I have no time whatsoever for waverers. I want them OTF. Those in our ranks who think "I'll string things boys along, whilst it suits me", should be sussed out and hounded out of our setup as quickly as possible.

[DannyInvincible]

3. I support all players who commit fully to the Northern Ireland cause. I have no time whatsoever for waverers. I want them OTF. Those in our ranks who think "I'll string things boys along, whilst it suits me", should be sussed out and hounded out of our setup as quickly as possible.

You kinda dodged the question there. Wouldn't O'Connor, Kane and Devine fit the bill as "waverers", given their past actions? Should they have been shunned for good once they made contact with the FAI, in your view?

[Predator]

1. NW rated Shane Duffy very highly indeed. He saw him as an integral part of the Senior Northern Ireland team for years to come.Worthington could have rated him as having the potential to be the next Franz Beckenbauer, but did he merit being included in the NI U21 team at 16 and the NI senior team at 17, when he was still only playing U18 football for Everton? Why not let the player make his own decision, which is afforded him by FIFA, in due time? Some will commit, some won't. Forcing it to be an issue causes nothing but trouble and bad publicity, as the IFA have found over recent months.


2. Frankly, if you find a comparatively small Association taking whatever legitimate measures neccessary to protect their interests in the face of the CAS Ruling, and a competitively hostile, much larger, neighbouring Association, "objectionable", you are a fool.Now, now, don't get wound up and resort to name calling. I accept that the IFA (like the FAI) and managers act in the interests of their team. That's fine. However, I feel that forcing it to be an issue, pressurising young players, giving them guilt trips, hounding them, after they've expressed their intentions to play for the FAI, is objectionable.


3. I support all players who commit fully to the Northern Ireland cause. I have no time whatsoever for waverers. I want them OTF. Those in our ranks who think "I'll string things boys along, whilst it suits me", should be sussed out and hounded out of our setup as quickly as possible.A diplomatic response. O'Connor and Kane were 'waverers'. Dan Devine could possibly be considered a 'waverer'. I'm sure there are quite a few in the IFA youth set up who could be 'waverers', as a result of their support for Ireland. What you have no time for is opportunists.

[Not Brazil]

Worthington could have rated him as having the potential to be the next Franz Beckenbauer, but did he merit being included in the NI U21 team at 16 and the NI senior team at 17, when he was still only playing U18 football for Everton? Why not let the player make his own decision, which is afforded him by FIFA, in due time? Some will commit, some won't. Forcing it to be an issue causes nothing but trouble and bad publicity, as the IFA have found over recent months.


No room for the likes of Duffy, going forward. I'm delighted he's made his choice, and gone. Players like him need to be sussed out (and flushed out, if neccessary) at the earliest opportunity.

Commit, or go.

Rather a bit of "bad publicity", than a player wearing a shirt he doesn't wish to honour - I hasten to add, I see nothing "bad" whatsoever in getting shot of any such player. In fact, I would expect the IFA to become much more ruthless in dealing with such players. Call their bluff.

Once a player indicates in any shape or form that they have desires to defect to the Republic of Ireland, that should be the end of their Northern Ireland career. No "hounding" for them to stay.

Simple as that.

Hopefully, Shane Ferguson and Liam Boyce are named in our squad to face Italy next month. So we get the jist of what their intentions are, nice and early.:o

[seanfhear]

No room for the likes of Duffy, going forward. I'm delighted he's made his choice, and gone. Players like him need to be sussed out (and flushed out, if neccessary) at the earliest opportunity.

Commit, or go.

Rather a bit of "bad publicity", than a player wearing a shirt he doesn't wish to honour - I hasten to add, I see nothing "bad" whatsoever in getting shot of any such player. In fact, I would expect the IFA to become much more ruthless in dealing with such players. Call their bluff.

Once a player indicates in any shape or form that they have desires to defect to the Republic of Ireland, that should be the end of their Northern Ireland career. No "hounding" for them to stay.

Simple as that.

Hopefully, Shane Ferguson and Liam Boyce are named in our squad to face Italy next month. So we get the jist of what their intentions are, nice and early.:o
It would be interesting if the FAI named them in their squad.

We would find out then which preference each player has.

Perhaps FIFA should allow the FAI a couple of extra places in squads just to get these choices decided;)

[Not Brazil]

You kinda dodged the question there. Wouldn't O'Connor, Kane and Devine fit the bill as "waverers", given their past actions? Should they have been shunned for good once they made contact with the FAI, in your view?

As you are no doubt aware, under current eligiblity rules, such questions are irrelevant.

[Not Brazil]

It would be interesting if the FAI named them in their squad.

We would find out then which preference each player has.


Yip - that would work too.

Whatever it takes to suss them out, and force their hand.

[seanfhear]

Yip - that would work too.

Whatever it takes to suss them out, and force their hand.
Tis best to let the players decide alright.

[Not Brazil]

Tis best to let the players decide alright.

Absolutely - just so long as they don't dick the IFA about in the process.

Let them decide nice and early - if they are incapable of that, give them a helping hand.

[DannyInvincible]

As you are no doubt aware, under current eligiblity rules, such questions are irrelevant.

I'm sure, as a Northern Ireland fan especially, there are rules governing football with which you don't fully agree, but you wouldn't dismiss your opinion on them as irrelevant and, therefore, not worth talking about, surely? So, don't be disingenuous (again) and answer the question. I was asking you for your view - as irrelevant as you may feel it is - out of interest, merely to garner whether or not your overall point was what you might call morally consistent. Or is it only wavering under the current rules to which you object then? Besides, the question is nothing but relevant; if the above information is correct, it was since the rules in their current format were introduced that Devine took part in an FAI training camp. As you are no doubt aware... ;)

[Predator]

Once a player indicates in any shape or form that they have desires to defect to the Republic of Ireland, that should be the end of their Northern Ireland career. No "hounding" for them to stay.

Simple as that.Thanks for answering my question.


Hopefully, Shane Ferguson and Liam Boyce are named in our squad to face Italy next month. So we get the jist of what their intentions are, nice and early.:oShane Ferguson is unlikely to change, considering he has been capped at senior level (even though that doesn't bind him). Boyce has been included in the IFA U21s and should only be included in the senior squad if he's good enough.

[Not Brazil]

I'm sure, as a Northern Ireland fan especially, there are rules governing football with which you don't fully agree, but you wouldn't dismiss your opinion on them as irrelevant and, therefore, not worth talking about, surely? So, don't be disingenuous (again) and answer the question. I was asking you for your view - as irrelevant as you may feel it is - out of interest, merely to garner whether or not your overall point was what you might call morally consistent. Or is it only wavering under the current rules to which you object then? Besides, the question is nothing but relevant; if the above information is correct, it was since the rules in their current format were introduced that Devine took part in an FAI training camp. As you are no doubt aware... ;)

I would suss out, and weed out by whatever legitimate means neccessary, any player in the Northern Ireland set up who has future designs on defecting to the Republic of Ireland.

For example, the IFA should be fast tracking a lot more players. Force their hand. As quickly and efficiently as possible.

Once they're gone, there's no coming back under current rules - proper order.

Put up - or get out TF.

[Not Brazil]

Shane Ferguson is unlikely to change, considering he has been capped at senior level (even though that doesn't bind him). Boyce has been included in the IFA U21s and should only be included in the senior squad if he's good enough.

I'd be supportive of calling them both up to the Senior squad next month.

Let them take their decision from there - nice and simple.