UK Election

[ArdeeBhoy]

Clearly you are buying all the Tory propaganda, hook line & sinker in the British media;well done!
It's a contradiction to assume they'll 'ringfence' the NHS when it doesn't match up with their supposed austerity measures or an aging population.
So fine, just don't get ill.

The no.of bigoted Tories (et al) is based on substantial personal experience, statements by random MPs and regularly by their numerous friends in the media, spouting bile about different racial groups, gays, young people and the like. In fact, everyone, not, like them. Needless to say the few said same members of those minorities within their ranks, seem blinkered to the fact that there's elements of the same party who despise them.....
The criticisms of Labour re.tax and bureaucracy is relatively fair;DNA databases are almost essential (& uniform) across the EU whilst the rest is more anti-Labour hot air from the Brit.Establishment media friends who in the main are barely interested in any concept of, er, 'Society'.

[boovidge]

I don't read any Conservative-supporting media. I'm not assuming they'll ringfence the NHS, it's a clear manifesto pledge and one they've stressed throughout the campaign. There is quite a considerably high number of ethnic minority and gay Tory members who are involved not only at a lower level but also at the higher end of the party, I think that they may be a better judge of the party's overall character than someone who is not involved in the party at all. They first ethnic minority and female PM's were also both Conservative. The party is a broad church of social conservatives, "Thatcherites", classic liberals, "one nation Conservatives" etc. Although I agree with you that there is still an element on the fringe of the Tory party that is..."backward" in their outlook let's say, the suggestion that 90% or however many are racists doesn't wash at all.

There is no need whatsoever for innocent people never convicted of a crime, including babies, to be on a DNA database. Only people convicted of serious crimes should have their DNA stored. Trying to make it legal to be able to detain people for 90 days without charge is a serious attack on liberty and human rights, not just something cooked up by the "Brit establishment media" :rolleyes: I.D cards, also an unnecessary intrusion of the state and a further attack on liberty in Britain.

[culloty82]

The Tories have made an effort to change their image, but looking at it from a selfish Irish perspective, it's hard to see what we or the nationalists would gain if they formed a government. At max, they'll probably finish around 300, which brings up the nightmare scenario of them being propped up by the DUP, UUP and the indy unionists (can't see Lib Dems doing a deal when Cameron doesn't want PR).

[ArdeeBhoy]

Sounds like yer man would be more at home in UKIP anyway....

If that other shower get in they'll prove even more clueless than the current lot.

[culloty82]

The only opinion poll done in the North this month:

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/election/exclusive-poll-dup-and-sinn-fein-are-neck-and-neck-in-the-race-for-votes-14792015.html

Clicking on the graph gives you figures for each constituency.

[shakermaker1982]

I'm still not sure who's getting my x in the box even at this late stage. A month ago it was the Libs but I'm starting to swing back to Labour. ANYTHING is better than the Tories. I fear Cameron and his cronies. I didn't go to Eton, I'm not a right winger and I don't earn 100k a year so he doesn't cater for people like me.

[culloty82]

Prediction Time:

Feel free to give a rough estimate on what will happen tonight - Britain adds up to 632.

Great Britain:
Conservatives 282
Labour 248
Liberal Democrats 90
UK Others 12 (7 SNP, 4 Plaid Cymru, 1 Green)

Northern Ireland
DUP 8
SF 4
SDLP 3
UUP 1
Independent Unionists 2

[Mr A]

Just saw this on the BBC site:


#
0940: Reports are coming in that the UK Independence Party Euro-MP Nigel Farage has been involved in a light plane crash at an airfield near Brackley in Northamptonshire. Mr Farage, who is standing in the general election, is understood to have suffered non life-threatening injuries in the incident.

Am I the only person who immediately wondered if the right wing failed?

[Wolfie]

Just saw this on the BBC site:



Am I the only person who immediately wondered if the right wing failed?

I also note how the BBC have airily referred to it as a "light plane crash" as opposed to a fully fledged plane crash.

It's obviously the travel disasters equivalent to a "light lunch" or "a light work out".

[osarusan]

i think they meant it was a light aircraft.

[Wolfie]

Yeah, I know - but am also painfully aware that I have no way of proving I knew.

I'm basically relying on you all knowing I was intelligent enough in the first place to have known that but jeopardised that certainty for the sake of a joke.

[dahamsta]

That's what they all say. Albeit slightly more convoluted... ;)

[The Fly]

The BNP, and some voters in East London, have a frank exchange of views;
:rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8663681.stm

[Wolfie]

That's what they all say. Albeit slightly more convoluted... ;)

You're just going to have to trust me on this one.........................

[OneRedArmy]

The plane apparently was trailing a UKIP banner at the time.

Tell me there isn't a God..........!

[Mr A]

The plane apparently was trailing a UKIP banner at the time.

Tell me there isn't a God..........!

There is no God. He survived.

[bennocelt]

The BNP, and some voters in East London, have a frank exchange of views;
:rolleyes:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/england/8663681.stm

Thats actually funny, Jesus I would vote for him just for that, he had a decent punch

[Dodge]

Chaos in several uk polling stations. Some electoral
lists weren't sent to stations, some ran out of ballot papers, some places closed doors at 10 with 100s locked outside, others allowed voting after 10.

All the broadcastors predicting hung parliament with Cons on 305-310. Given the state of Labour for the past year it looks like Cameron has missed an open goal

[Dodge]

Should say betfair still says over 325 for Cons

[Lionel Ritchie]

Wow Peter Robinson gone!

[Dodge]

Incredible result. Alliance with the seat

[culloty82]

State of Play at 8 a.m. with 601 seats finalised:

Tories 286
Labour 237
Lib Dems 51
SNP 6
Plaid Cymru 3

DUP 8
SF 4
SDLP 3
Alliance 1
Sylvia Hermon
Fairly level at the moment, realistically Cameron will be PM but either way there'll be another election in a few months. Fermanagh-South Tyrone is like Dick Spring 20 years ago, Connor was eight votes ahead after the first count, but after the second count, Gildernew leads by two!

[Macy]

Chaos in several uk polling stations. Some electoral
lists weren't sent to stations, some ran out of ballot papers, some places closed doors at 10 with 100s locked outside, others allowed voting after 10.
Running out of ballot papers is unforgiveable - they know how many voters are on each stations list, so should have enough for 100% turnout. Similarly, it seems in some areas there were queues all day which shows they didn't have enough people on the desks. However, one wagon I heard giving out on UK radio about not getting a vote only turned up 5 to 10!

Overall, you'd have to think a minority Tory Government, unless Lib-Lab have enough for a majority. Incidentally, Cameron "failed" on a bigger vote than Blairs '97 landslide, which is pretty funny considering they're the most opposed to any form of PR.

[OneRedArmy]

Libdem "collapse" is the big story for me. Regardless of what hindsight vision will say, it is completely unexpected. Their numbers held up in the polls right up until yesterday.

There was an interesting article in the Irish papers a few weeks back about the different attitudes in Britain vs Ireland and most of Europe re single party Government v coalition. Even the British term for it, hung parliament, has a strongly negative bias attached to it.

Doomsday scenario is the DUP holding the key for the Tories. Lets hope it doesn't get to that.

[endabob1]

I always felt that the lib dem vote would dwindle on the the day, but it has been a very poor election fr them after a particularly good campaign, if the predictions of the Tory's being short by 40 seats are accurate it'll still make Clegg the kingmaker though. It fortunately doesn't look likt your doomsday scenario will come to fruition but that has been my fear from the start.

[OneRedArmy]

Tories will likely only be short about 15ish, and the 326 number is actually a red herring as the Shinners don't take their seat's. Real number is 322/323.

An anti-Tory rainbow coalition involving SDLP, Alliance, Green would be hilarious, but probably unlikely, particularly as the SNP and Plaid Cymru refuse to go into coalitions IIRC.

[bennocelt]

Chaos in several uk polling stations. Some electoral
lists weren't sent to stations, some ran out of ballot papers, some places closed doors at 10 with 100s locked outside, others allowed voting after 10.

All the broadcastors predicting hung parliament with Cons on 305-310. Given the state of Labour for the past year it looks like Cameron has missed an open goal


Yeah and that was pretty much mentioned on BBC too, what with the recession, the wars, the expenses, etc

Just wondering what ye guys thought of the TV coverage
Rte - your having a laugh, didnt bother with that
C4 - great lineup, but was very dissapointed, jokes were rubbish (very badly written), and quickly turned off it (but flicked to see what Ron Liddle was really like - he is a XXXker)
BBC/BBC Norn Iron - was dissapointed with the Beeb, too much on graphics and Dimbebley can be a pain sometimes (did anyone see the way he dismissed Northern Ireland?). Norn Iron version was actually quite good
ITV - a surprise and the station I mostly stayed with, main chair was good, and Widcome and Reid were insightful
But Im knackered today and just hoping I have enough energy to go to a football match today:o

[Closed Account 2]

Running out of ballot papers is unforgiveable - they know how many voters are on each stations list, so should have enough for 100% turnout. Similarly, it seems in some areas there were queues all day which shows they didn't have enough people on the desks. However, one wagon I heard giving out on UK radio about not getting a vote only turned up 5 to 10!


It's an utter disgrace, and the UK can no longer wax lyrical about supposedly "rigged" elections in the Ukraine, Lebanon, etc...

Even turning up at 21:55 should still be ok, the vast majority UK votes will be working office hours, assuming someone finishes work at 6pm, they are likely to be home at say 7pm, then it could well be say 8pm by the time they're ready to vote. They should either make the day a bank holiday or close the ballot at midnight.

[Macy]

Even turning up at 21:55 should still be ok, the vast majority UK votes will be working office hours, assuming someone finishes work at 6pm, they are likely to be home at say 7pm, then it could well be say 8pm by the time they're ready to vote. They should either make the day a bank holiday or close the ballot at midnight.
I don't really agree - it's much easier to get a postal ballot in the UK, and polls are open before work too. What happens at 5 to midnight, when the same people again leave it to the last minute? There were people who were there an hour before who didn't get in to vote and that is a disgrace, but turning up 5 minutes to go and then giving out about being disenfranchised is nonsense.

[Closed Account 2]

They should be allowed into the building at 21:55 or 23:55 all issued with ballot papers and then the doors sealed at 22:00 or 00:00, they can then vote while the doors are sealed.

I think pushing it out to midnight would be better, those extra two hours could be vital for people working. For instance if a commuter is at work to 18:00, they might not get home til 19:00 and if they have kids etc it could be 21:00 by they time they're ready to vote, another 20 mins to get the polling station and then suddenly there is no margin for error if there is a glut of people.

By the way some booths "ran out" of ballot papers, how can they make such a basic error ?!?

[osarusan]

I don't really agree - it's much easier to get a postal ballot in the UK, and polls are open before work too. What happens at 5 to midnight, when the same people again leave it to the last minute? There were people who were there an hour before who didn't get in to vote and that is a disgrace, but turning up 5 minutes to go and then giving out about being disenfranchised is nonsense.

It's got nothing to do with it being easier to get a postal ballot.

The point is that if the rules are that you can turn up before 10pm and you will be allowed to cast your vote, then when you turn up before the time the polling centre is due to close and are told that you can't cast your cote, you have every reason to be angry.

The reason for people not being able to vote is not people 'leaving it to the last minute', it's screw-ups in the polling centre, like it being undermanned, not having enough ballot papers, and it one instance in Sheffield, students being asked to produce polling cards which they didn't have because it specifically said on the polling card that it wasn't necessary to bring them to the polling centre.

[Closed Account 2]

Apparently anyone who was denied the right to vote can sue for breach of human rights (under EU law) and might be entitled to £750 in compensation.

[pineapple stu]

How do you prove that?

[Closed Account 2]

I would guess that you have to be on the electoral register and not have your name crossed off on the voting list (which happens when they hand the ballot paper to you), but I agree it's hard to prove that someone attempted and was denied the right to vote as opposed to someone who just didnt turn up - unless they kept records of who was shut out when they closed the doors.

[Mr A]

Very interesting the way things are panning out. The arithmetic points to a LD-Tory deal but the Tories just won't concede what the LDs need on electoral reform. Labour-LD makes more sense but they still won't have the numbers.

Tory minority government (with DUP in there) anyone?

[Closed Account 2]

Would a tory minority government even be that viable (ignoring the ins and outs of who they form a coalition with)? They usually have a large number of maverick MPs who wont tow the party line, and there is the whole Europe issue the Tories still havent made their minds up over it and that could divide the party or cause defections to UKIP.

I think Clegg could go down as the worst leader in the history of the Lib Dems if he joins in with Cameron. The Liberals and Tories have the least in common of all the major parties, and on top of that Clegg, now ending up as a kingmaker, needs to push for PR if he is to have any sort of positive legacy in Lib Dem history. On the other hand the Tories are highly unlikely to grant PR as it goes against all that they stand for (and all they campaigned for). Furthermore, the Lib Dems were anti-cutting and the Tories were pro cutbacks.

[Dodge]

Id argue that the LibDems have more in common with the Tories than they do with Labout but for them, Electoral Reform is the key, and the Tories won't budge an inch on it.

[Closed Account 2]

I am not sure where there is any common ground between the Lib Dems and the Tories. I would view the Lib Dems as left wing, Tories and right wing and Labour (in it's current guise) as a sort of central/left party. The Tories have put forward policies such as higher tax-free limits on inheretance, the Lib Dems have put forward mansion taxes. The Lib Dems want to scrap Trident, the Tories want to keep it (as, nominally, do Labour). The Tories are anti-Euro, Cameron stating that under his leadership the UK will never go into the Euro, the Lib Dems are more pro Europe and pro Euro, Labour are non-commital (muttering about key currency tests before joining the Euro).

I think you could end up seeing Labour ditching Brown, re-branding themselves as more left, dropping right wing pledges such as Trident, and teaming up with the Lib Dems.

[Macy]

The reason for people not being able to vote is not people 'leaving it to the last minute', it's screw-ups in the polling centre, like it being undermanned, not having enough ballot papers, and it one instance in Sheffield, students being asked to produce polling cards which they didn't have because it specifically said on the polling card that it wasn't necessary to bring them to the polling centre.
For some it is, and I stated that wasn't right in my first post on this and in the post you quoted, but there were some that were turning up at that time and then feeling the need to go on radio and give out. Obviously some people see that as a right to turn up as late as possible, fair enough, even if I see it as totally impractical.

If the only time you have is 5 minutes in the whole time the stations are open, and a postal vote is an option (as it is in the UK), then you can't abidicate yourself of any responsibility for not getting a chance to vote.

[shakermaker1982]

I'm always amazed how many Irish people not living over here are fascinated with the quirks of British politics! It has been a crazy day over here. The majority of people here haven't got a clue what is happening. Hung parliaments, we're all doomed, who has won etc will be heard in many an office/workplace today.

Fingers crossed the Lib Dems don't go over to the dark side (Tories). Labour should offer em PR down the line and whatever else they want to get them on board.

[culloty82]

Looks like the Lib Dems are headed for government as both Brown and Cameron are offering a full coalition. I agree they should go in with Labour - things are looking more optimistic than they were this morning, because as things stand they have 319 including SDLP and the Alliance, and leaving out SF's 5, they only need 323. All that needs to be done then is offer more autonomy to the nationalists and they would put them over the line from the sidelines, while the Tories are fairly stuck unless Clegg bites. In any case, most Lib Dem members would be centre-left and would be tempted by Brown's PR proposals, whereas Cameron is only floating vague waffle at the moment.

[The Fly]

Iris Robinson phoned Peter after the election result and said: "Now you know what it is like to get a good hammering by a youngster a three in the morning."

[Poor Student]

I still think Gildernew might scrape Fermanagh South Tyrone. The move to put forward a Unionist unity candidate might galvanise the nationalist vote around Sinn Fein. The SDLP have ran Tommy Gallagher every time since 1992 until now and McKinney might not be able to retain the support base from his work over the last couple of decades. The Alliance are also running for the first time since 1997 although it's hard to guess how many votes they'll take off both sides. Connor will be the favourite but I don't think it's a dead cert.

Looks like I was right on this one.;)

[Closed Account 2]

Scotland the brave has spared the rest of the UK from the horror show that would have been an outright David Cameron victory. There was something of the Thatcher about him and luckily depsite all the Ashcroft/Goldsmith funding, voter conscience and memories of the 80s seems to have jolted the population back from the brink.

I hope Clegg doesnt turn into some Manchurian Candidate....

[superfrank]

On the whole problems with voters being turned away, etc., I found this piece to be quite interesting. Especially the Tanzanian guy saying: "This wouldn't happen in my country."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8668395.stm

[The Fly]

Reg Empey is sunk. Apparently, Mike Nesbitt is to be the new party leader, and they're going to rebrand as Ulster Conservative and Unionist New Team..... or UCUNT for short. ;)

[culloty82]

No white smoke yet, but I'd imagine things will finish either way by this time tomorrow. Brown seemingly met Clegg today, so no options being kept off the table yet.

[thischarmingman]

Brown to stand down:


STATE OF PLAY: Lib Dems start formal talks with Labour as well as Tories; Brown to quit




5.07pm Swift reversal

This is astonishing. A Lib/Lab coalition is once again on the cards - and Gordon Brown falls on his sword to help it happen.

We could be in line for another unelected prime minister, and David Cameron may have let the keys to number 10 slip through his fingers.

5.05pm Brown to stand down

This is it. He'll see through coalition talks, then stand down in time for a leadership election at the Labour Party conference.

So, farewell then, Gordon Brown.



http://timesonline.typepad.com/election10/

[osarusan]

Brown to stand down:



http://timesonline.typepad.com/election10/

This was always going to happen. Clegg was never going to work with him.

Labour just waited so the resignation as leader is portrayed as "stepping down to help bring about a government" instead of "stepping down after losing an election".

[culloty82]

What a dramatic day - Brown stepping down, the Libs talking to both parties at once, and now the Tories are panicking and offering a referendum on the Alternate Vote PR system. Who knows, maybe if Clegg holds out another 24 hours, he might squeeze STV out of Labour. I'd say it'll take til Thursday until a deal is done either way.