Ireland ask FIFA to be 33rd team in WC

[Emmet7]

I don't think any of this is about sour grapes.

It is all about fair play. There is a difference. Had we lost fairly and we complained that would be sour grapes.

If someone steals your wallet, is it sour grapes to complain? That's what some of the forgive and forget folks make out.

Anyways, the hypocrisy of FIFA is pretty blatent. It is a sham of an organisation, a mickey mouse institution. The WC will be more like EuroDisney than a serious football competition because of FIFA.

[Bluebeard]

Anyways, the hypocrisy of FIFA is pretty blatent. It is a sham of an organisation, a mickey mouse institution. The WC will be more like EuroDisney than a serious football competition because of FIFA.

Did it take this to make that clear? The world cup is a football themed marketing exhibition, and FIFA is an advertising agency. It has not been about the football since at least the 1970s, if it even was then. Good of the game me ***** ******.

[tiktok]

So handling the ball is not a serious infringement of the rules now?

Now?
It has never been a serious infringement of the rules.
Intentional handball is a yellow card offence, that's the extent of it.

As for your nonsense about stealing our wallet....
Just close the thread, please!

FIFA are a shambles, but they have been for decades, and they would have been exactly the same shambles run by exactly the same idiots even if we had qualified. It's not like FIFA = Farce is new information.

[jbyrne]

Quelle Suprise?
"The disciplinary committee reached the conclusion that there was no legal foundation for the committee to consider the case because handling the ball cannot be regarded as a serious infringement as stipulated in article 77a of the FIFA disciplinary code."


could they not have charged him with the catch-all ungentlemanly conduct or bringing the game in to disrepute?

if they really wanted to punish him in some way they could have found a way. when cantona kicked that fan that time he wasnt on the field of play but still got a lengthy ban


Now?
It has never been a serious infringement of the rules.
Intentional handball is a yellow card offence, that's the extent of it.


use of the hand to stop a goal is a straight red so why shouldnt scoring (or setting up a score) be deemed a red also?

[dr_peepee]

I'm glad they haven't done anything. If they slapped a ban on him who's the real losers? It's still us. They'd be recognising that he cheated, but he'd still have the chance to play in the World Cup. It was be hypocritical of them to do that.

Have to disagree with you there. The VERY least that should have emerged out of all this is that something should have been put in place to ensure it doesn't happen again. I could just about stomach it then. Henry had everything to gain and absolutley nothing to loose by breaking the rule, and that gap is still there to be exploited. It shows how little regard FIFA have for the integrity of the sport.

I hope the ***** in FIFA get the tournament they deserve. FYI There's companies selling Stab Vests in the colours of respective countries competing. FIFA are snapping. More about how it reflects on their "brand" rather than the fans safety I'd imagine. I hope the tournament riddled with security problems and drug scandals. (No deaths obviously for anyone about to mount their pedastel)

[tetsujin1979]

bleating about no legal foundation for punishing Henry is making me sick, FIFA are the ones who set the laws, so why not do something about it?
I've a terrible feeling that the next time something like this happens (and it will happen again) the powers that be will just point to this ruling, shrug their shoulders, and let it happen over and over again

[jbyrne]

bleating about no legal foundation for punishing Henry is making me sick, FIFA are the ones who set the laws, so why not do something about it?
I've a terrible feeling that the next time something like this happens (and it will happen again) the powers that be will just point to this ruling, shrug their shoulders, and let it happen over and over again

it suits FIFA that they can do nothing in this case but you can be sure if it was a lesser country they would have found a way to punish the player involved.

which was worse henrys cheating or liam bradys alleged clip round the ear that he gave the bulgarian player in '87? brady got a three match ban yet henry gets off scot free :confused:

[monsexile]

http://notthenuacht.com/?p=177
Punished at last

[tiktok]

use of the hand to stop a goal is a straight red so why shouldnt scoring (or setting up a score) be deemed a red also?

It's a straight red because that's the ruling when someone denies a clear goalscoring opportunity, the mode of the offence [handball, tackle etc.,] is irrelevant.

There is no parallel rule for unfairly scoring a goal being a red card offence.

[dr_peepee]

bleating about no legal foundation for punishing Henry is making me sick, FIFA are the ones who set the laws, so why not do something about it?
I've a terrible feeling that the next time something like this happens (and it will happen again) the powers that be will just point to this ruling, shrug their shoulders, and let it happen over and over again

I think the opposite actually. If it happens again but hinders one of the big dogs, it'll be acted upon and closed out.

[tiktok]

which was worse henrys cheating or liam bradys alleged clip round the ear that he gave the bulgarian player in '87? brady got a three match ban yet henry gets off scot free :confused:

A player raising his hands to the face/head of an opponent is always going to draw a stronger reaction than a handball.

[jbyrne]

It's a straight red because that's the ruling when someone denies a clear goalscoring opportunity, the mode of the offence [handball, tackle etc.,] is irrelevant.

There is no parallel rule for unfairly scoring a goal being a red card offence.

but it is still a red. i know the opposite does not apply and thats the question i was posing.... why not? its double standards and discriminates against defenders


A player raising his hands to the face/head of an opponent is always going to draw a stronger reaction than a handball.

agree. but which had a greater impact on the result of the game? clearly henrys

[osarusan]

I don't think it is realistic to expect FIFA to make up a new rule and punish Henry retrospectively for it. I would be a terrible precedent to set. Any punishment should be in line with existing rules.

So, what are some existing rules under which he could have been punished?

[jbyrne]

I don't think it is realistic to expect FIFA to make up a new rule and punish Henry retrospectively for it. I would be a terrible precedent to set. Any punishment should be in line with existing rules.

So, what are some existing rules under which he could have been punished?

bringing the game into disripute?

[newrynyuk]

Once again it needs to be pointed out that Ireland are out of the World Cup not because of the handball goal. But because we failed to take our chances to score a second.

Remember at the time of that goal, we were drawing. At best it would have gone to penalties. A second goal and we would have won the tie, even with Henry's handball goal we would have won on away goals.

[tiktok]

but it is still a red. i know the opposite does not apply and thats the question i was posing.... why not? its double standards and discriminates against defenders

The offence being punished is denying a clear goalscoring opportunity, not the handball in of itself, that's just the vehicle by which the offence is committed [as in, violent conduct is the offence, the rules don't break it down further, whether you use your fist, a headbutt or a kick is irrelevant, the violent conduct is the offence you're punished against]


agree. but which had a greater impact on the result of the game? clearly henrys
Henry's did certainly, but that's irrelevant because incidents and fouls have to be judged on an objective basis. Now whether that should be the case, you can argue, but the fact of the matter is that it's the way things are.

[jbyrne]

The offence being punished is denying a clear goalscoring opportunity, not the handball in of itself, that's just the vehicle by which the offence is committed [as in, violent conduct is the offence, the rules don't break it down further, whether you use your fist, a headbutt or a kick is irrelevant, the violent conduct is the offence you're punished against]

yes, but its about time that clear cheating such as deliberate handball, pulling back a player in the box etc before putting the ball in the net should be treated the same as offences that deny a goal scoring chance are. at the moment someone can fist the ball into the net in the hope of getting away with it and if they are caught, ah well, heres a yellow and dont do it again. defenders dont get such leniency

[tiktok]

yes, but its about time that clear cheating such as deliberate handball, pulling back a player in the box etc before putting the ball in the net should be treated the same as offences that deny a goal scoring chance are.

Yeah, I think that'd be fair enough. Costing a goal by cheating should carry the same weight as scoring a goal by cheating.

However, applying that retrospectively isn't a runner. You can only charge people against the rules that were there at the time of the offence, so henry really doesn't have a case to answer in terms of a ban, even if they did place one on him, he'd win on appealing it.

[Wolfie]

which was worse henrys cheating or liam bradys alleged clip round the ear that he gave the bulgarian player in '87? brady got a three match ban yet henry gets off scot free :confused:

Could stand corrected on this one, - wasn't Brady's ban a UEFA imposed band as opposed to FIFA?

[pineapple stu]

Wasn't Brady sent off in that match? As the ref took no action against Henry, the matter ends there.

[osarusan]

However, applying that retrospectively isn't a runner. You can only charge people against the rules that were there at the time of the offence, so henry really doesn't have a case to answer in terms of a ban, even if they did place one on him, he'd win on appealing it.
I'd agree with all this (indeed I posted the same thing on the last page, so tiktok probably just stole my idea).

What will be interesting to see is if / how FIFA so to try and make sure it doesn't happen again. It's all very well to say that "there are currently no rules under which he can be punished", but FIFA make the rules, and rules could be changed or introduced so that next time, there is a rule under which a player can be punished.

However I think FIFA are very very reluctant to introduce rules whereby foul play missed by the referee at the time can be reviewed and punished by video evidence afterwards. I'm guessing that they are worried about undermining the authority of the referee (which is the reason they're so against using video evidence during play as well).

Their message seems to be along the lines that it's a shame players get away with these kinds of things, but the situation is still preferable to introducing video evidence.

[dr_peepee]

But there are other options aside from retrospective punishment , if they don't want to go down that route. Umpires? Technology etc?

There should at the very least be some lessons learned here, but no.

The level of apathy to what we lost due to the breaking of the fundemental rule of the game is shocking. It's galling. The fat **** was mocking us at one stage.

I hope the tournaments a disaster for them on every level.

[elroy]

As fans I think we have moved on from the desperation, the anger, the hurt etc that we felt in Paris that night. That doesnt mean that we have got over it or that what has happened is now ok. Our dream of a WC died that night in the worst possible fashion and for anyone to belittle that, doesnt understand imo.

The real issue here is that if the game was replayed tomorrow and Henry did the exact same thing, he would get away with it again. At the least lessons should be learned from this saga but it now looks like none will.

[jbyrne]

Could stand corrected on this one, - wasn't Brady's ban a UEFA imposed band as opposed to FIFA?


Wasn't Brady sent off in that match? As the ref took no action against Henry, the matter ends there.

was using the brady incident as an example of how a player can get a ban that affects his participation in a finals for something trivial that does not affect the scoreline or result yet a blatant cheat affects a result and gets to participate fully in the finals

[pineapple stu]

All well and good, but it's no precedent for a ban against Henry, as my post showed.

[tetsujin1979]

This is kinda the point Stu, it's time a precedent was set to deter this in the future
Put it this way - how many players do you think missed a drugs test before Rio Ferdinand? And how many missed one after?

[jbyrne]

All well and good, but it's no precedent for a ban against Henry, as my post showed.

i didnt say it set a precedent. just a comparison to illustrate how unbalanced the "rules" are

[tiktok]

This is kinda the point Stu, it's time a precedent was set to deter this in the future

Agree completely tets, but you can't pin that on Henry.

They could put the rule in, as jbyrne has suggested, to level the playing grounds between denying a goalscoring opportunity and gaining false advantage to create a goalscoring opportunity [or some such Blather for Blatter] and punish both with Red Cards. Then if the Henry situation was to pop up again, you could point to what the player had done as a Red Card offence, therefore warranting a ban, and give him a ban.

The Rule has to come first, but sure we all know how likely that is with FIFA.

[weldoninhio]

Henry handled the ball once in the match, the referee did not see it. Why should he be banned?? Robbie Keane handled it at least three times in the same match, but the referee did see these and gave free kicks, should he be banned too?? Or is it different for him because your wearing green tinted glasses??

[cavan_fan]

Henry handled the ball once in the match, the referee did not see it. Why should he be banned?? Robbie Keane handled it at least three times in the same match, but the referee did see these and gave free kicks, should he be banned too?? Or is it different for him because your wearing green tinted glasses??

Is it possible you have posted the same irrelevant point 161 times. I know you think this is a really clever point but we've all heard it now.

On the Henry decision it's a huge missed opportunity. It will be used to justify any cheating in future and shows the whole fair Play initiative as irrelevant

[Stuttgart88]

I still don't really see how they couldn't have applied the "gross unsporting behaviour" charge that they charged Rivaldo and Materazzi with, and that UEFA slapped at Raul (also for handball).

[Razors left peg]

I still don't really see how they couldn't have applied the "gross unsporting behaviour" charge that they charged Rivaldo and Materazzi with, and that UEFA slapped at Raul (also for handball).

maybe because Materazzi and Rivaldo werent clever enough to cry on the phone to Sepp Blatter about how unfair it was that they were being made out to be such a bad guy

[weldoninhio]

I still don't really see how they couldn't have applied the "gross unsporting behaviour" charge that they charged Rivaldo and Materazzi with, and that UEFA slapped at Raul (also for handball).


So if FIFA turned around and banned Henry for 3 games tomorrow, would you be happy if the said, after reviewing the game we have decided to ban Thierry Henry for 3 competitive games, we will also be banning Robbie Keane for the same offence??

[Acornvilla]

but robbie got punished at the time i.e feekick. and also didnt cost a country millions of euro and breaking countless hearts, by cheating and failing to admit it, as aparently a world renound sportsman, icon and 'rolemodel' can be seen to say cheatings ok if your not caught.. henry let the sport down.... you dont justify your point of view by repeating it over and over. its time for change thats what everyone is trying to say.
its not ok to cheat period.

[endabob1]

So if FIFA turned around and banned Henry for 3 games tomorrow, would you be happy if the said, after reviewing the game we have decided to ban Thierry Henry for 3 competitive games, we will also be banning Robbie Keane for the same offence??

You seem to be unable to seperate the severity of the offences & the actions taken by the officials.

To use the Rivaldo example FIFA fined him because it was an especially bad case of feigning injury to try and get another player sent off. Personally the punishment did not go far enough because on a world cup stage it was again a great opportunity to hand out a ban and send a message but FIFA bottled it because it was Brazil. In the same tournament there were loads of other dives that went unpunished beyond a fee kick but FIFA did not need to act on these because they had acted on the worst offender(s).
You pick the most blatant offenders and punish them severely, it sends a message to the wannabe’s but as an English friend said to me, International football is like the premiership, its run for the big boys who are most marketable & can bring in the most cash.

[jbyrne]

Henry handled the ball once in the match

actually 3 times in about 1 sec if you look closely enough

[Stuttgart88]

Words fail me Weldoninhio.

[Junior]

I didnt want Henry banned.

I did want FIFA to take the opportunity to ensure this doesnt happen again.

They didn't.

[elroy]

So basically if any of you guys are coaches, you should now train the kids to handle the ball where at all necessary because they may gain an incredible advantage that will not be punished. :o:mad::rolleyes:

[tetsujin1979]

So basically if any of you guys are coaches, you should now train the kids to handle the ball where at all necessary because they may gain an incredible advantage that will not be punished. :o:mad::rolleyes:
that does seem to be the message Blatter is giving doesn't it?
From absolving him of the foul, and then commenting that he himself bent the rules as a player, he really doesn't seem to be aware of what he's saying and what it means to football fans in general

[Leeside Swagger]

Any organisation that has that kind of money coming in and is self regulated is going to be corrupt. Why do you think their HQ is in Switzerland? Football at the top is completley disconnected from the grass roots level and things arent going to change anytime soon. Its sad but im not suprised.

[Junior]

Ok so they have used a cop out in saying there are no existing laws to punish Henry.

However, have any of the media pushed FIFA in to responding on what they plan to do about that? How will they stop it in the future?

The general consensus seems to be that FIFA have dealt with this whole issue, from start to finish, shockingly but I dont see/hear any real pressure from those in positions of influence to make changes for the good.

[jbyrne]

Ok so they have used a cop out in saying there are no existing laws to punish Henry.

However, have any of the media pushed FIFA in to responding on what they plan to do about that? How will they stop it in the future?

The general consensus seems to be that FIFA have dealt with this whole issue, from start to finish, shockingly but I dont see/hear any real pressure from those in positions of influence to make changes for the good.

quite simple really.... nobody cares except us. all the big money making football nations are there and the party moves on without us

[Junior]

quite simple really.... nobody cares except us. all the big money making football nations are there and the party moves on without us

Come on Donald Macintyre your country needs you!:D

[weldoninhio]

Can this thread be closed now??? Trap forgives Henry.


http://www.football365.com/story/0,17033,8652_5880641,00.html

[Razors left peg]

I just heard on Sky Sports that because Togo pulled out of the African Nations cup because of the gun attack, they have now been banned from the next 2 tournaments. Im in total disbelief of that sort of attitude by the governing body but it really shows what kind of horrible pr1cks are running football in the world.

[carloz]

I just heard on Sky Sports that because Togo pulled out of the African Nations cup because of the gun attack, they have now been banned from the next 2 tournaments. Im in total disbelief of that sort of attitude by the governing body but it really shows what kind of horrible pr1cks are running football in the world.

Exactly. It gives you an idea of the ********s who run football. they think they know best when in truth they know **** all and are holding the game back. What in gods name were the CAF were thinking kicking out Togo is beyond me. It is not like they pulled out for the craic

[back of the net]

I just heard on Sky Sports that because Togo pulled out of the African Nations cup because of the gun attack, they have now been banned from the next 2 tournaments. Im in total disbelief of that sort of attitude by the governing body but it really shows what kind of horrible pr1cks are running football in the world.

OMG!!!!!!!

Razor, when i read your post , i wasnt sure whether you were takin the p*ss , as the idea of banning Togo under the related cirumstances is quiet astounding and so heartless. I was sure you had got the story wrong mate.

So i did a check and to my shock and horror, you are bang on the money mate

http://www.timeslive.co.za/sport/soccer/article284032.ece

What kind of assh*les are these ppl who run the game we love...i am in utter disbelief at this.
I feel sick to the stomach, the football world were appalled at the way Ireland were treated over Henrygate....but this is a whole more serious issue...People lost their lives....what kind of animals are running C.A.F!!!!

[Razors left peg]

I know I should have posted it in the World Football forum but the reason I posted it here is to show that if the powers that be have such a disgusting and insensitive attitide to what happened to Togo then we never had a hope of getting any sort of justice for what was a irrelivant issue in comparison to Togo

[Yard of Pace]

That's disgusting. I wouldn't march or sign petitions when our situation happened but I'd gladly join any demonstration in support of Togo.

One has to wonder exactly how far football can go before something gives.