Stephen Ward

[SkStu]

Rumors on the Bohs mb that he is set for a €1m move to Sunderland with Bohs to scoop €100k from the move. I say it's all a load of b*llix but thought I'd throw it in here anyway...

[Colbert Report]

They have a major whole at left-back, and have had for years. I can't see him being the answer to their problems, not at left-back, anyway. I'd like to see him get a run of games as a striker.

[Charlie Darwin]

Useless full back Stephen Ward puts Wolves 1-0 up at home to Barnsley.

[paul_oshea]

Ok all his ailes are now forgotten.

[tetsujin1979]

Goal online here: http://www.101greatgoals.com/gvideos/wolves-3-barnsley-1/
quality finish, to be fair

[Charlie Darwin]

Call him up Trap!

[Murfinator]

Call him up Trap!

please don't listen to him trap

[SolitudeRed]

please don't listen to him trap

I think he may have no choice in the matter! Ward has his faults I mean he has at times played as a Striker and winger and this is reflected in his ability to get forward and score goals. However what other suitable LBs do we have? Harte is 34 and Wilson needs to take his chance in a friendly before he can replace ward? Cunningham is still with the U21s.

[Murfinator]

34 or not Hartes playing at the higher level, playing better and even scores more.

[geysir]

I think he may have no choice in the matter! Ward has his faults I mean he has at times played as a Striker and winger and this is reflected in his ability to get forward and score goals. However what other suitable LBs do we have? Harte is 34 and Wilson needs to take his chance in a friendly before he can replace ward? Cunningham is still with the U21s.
Very good goal there by Ward.
I'd say Wilson will be called up to the next squad, though Cunningham must be close to a call up and seeing as the u21's are on the way out, who knows what may transpire.

[TrapAPony]

'Nottingham Forest have had a £1m bid accepted for Wolves’ Stephen Ward. However, the two clubs are attempting to reconcile money the player is owed on the remainder of his contract. This one looks in the balance, although with determination to do it on both sides, it is more likely than not.
'

[Charlie Darwin]

Interesting - he'll be trading a mid-range Championship team with a trigger-happy approach to managers with another. Bohs will surely be due a bit of a pay-out if it goes through.

[tetsujin1979]

forest sold one Irish full back to replace him with another!

[Charlie Darwin]

Telegraph reporter John Percy is giving a different story: "#nffc (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23nffc&src=hash) have returned with an improved offer for #wwfc (https://twitter.com/search?q=%23wwfc&src=hash) defender Stephen Ward. Bid was accepted but deal looks unlikely due to personal terms"

[Crosby87]

Looks like he is turning his nose up a bit with reporters here about the prospect of leaving.
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS9JKpmbTmvipUOm77tksFlFr2axHFu_ Yb1-Mi-YnxhoJ4hKb1VWw

[SkStu]

Interesting - he'll be trading a mid-range Championship team with a trigger-happy approach to managers with another. Bohs will surely be due a bit of a pay-out if it goes through.

pretty certain those types of clauses are time-limited. For example, i dont think we received anything for his international caps... Not sure that we would be entitled to anything further...

[geysir]

pretty certain those types of clauses are time-limited. For example, i dont think we received anything for his international caps... Not sure that we would be entitled to anything further...
The caps thing would have to be in the transfer contract, Wolves have no obligation on that matter unless the contract says they do.

If Wolves did sell him for £1m, they are obliged to pay a % of the transfer fees to the clubs that Ward was with (previous to Wolves) up to the age of 23. It's called solidarity contribution. Or in Bohs case, it would be a solitary fix.

[SkStu]

sorry - for clarification - Bohs had negotiated a clause about international caps. I believe that the time limit associated with the clause expired and we ended up without a payment. There was talk about a sum from Wolves but not sure that it happened...

I think you are wrong about solidarity payments. I thought solidarity payments were only applicable in a transfer between different footballing jurisdictions? For example, Kevin Doyle had a transfer clause built into his move from Cork to Reading which would have covered the transfer between Reading and Wolves had Cork not cashed it in. If they were going to receive a solidarity payment from the transfer why would they have bothered? Bohs received a solidarity payment from Coventry for Gary Deegan but didnt receive anything for his transfer to Hibernian.

[Charlie Darwin]

pretty certain those types of clauses are time-limited. For example, i dont think we received anything for his international caps... Not sure that we would be entitled to anything further...
They're only time-limited if they're specifically made that way, and I don't see why Bohs would agree to that. I assumed they'd have a sell-on clause.

[geysir]

sorry - for clarification - Bohs had negotiated a clause about international caps. I believe that the time limit associated with the clause expired and we ended up without a payment. There was talk about a sum from Wolves but not sure that it happened...

I think you are wrong about solidarity payments. I thought solidarity payments were only applicable in a transfer between different footballing jurisdictions? For example, Kevin Doyle had a transfer clause built into his move from Cork to Reading which would have covered the transfer between Reading and Wolves had Cork not cashed it in. If they were going to receive a solidarity payment from the transfer why would they have bothered? Bohs received a solidarity payment from Coventry for Gary Deegan but didnt receive anything for his transfer to Hibernian.

Doyle was transferred before this solidarity thing came into force, probably explains why Cork would not have known. Even if they had known they would have conspired to make a loss anyway :)
Having a quick read of this page FAI page (http://www.fai.ie/football-services-a-education/player-a-club-services/fifa-solidarity-and-compensation-payments.html) it looks to me that,
"Training compensation is paid to all clubs who've trained the player from age 12 to 21"
It applies only to cross juridstiction transfers and applies all down the line to all the clubs the player was registered to in Ireland
but "In the event of any subsequent transfer, compensation is only paid to the previous club."
I assume that means the last club the player was with before leaving Ireland.
It could mean the previous club in England, but that doesn't fit.

If it means the last club in Ireland, then that club is entitled to the solidarity payment for "any subsequent transfer".
All imho.

edit
there is also a calculation there at the bottom of the page
Solidarity Contribution - Payment breakdown
for age when at the Irish club and that calculation covers from age 12 to age 23.

[SkStu]

They're only time-limited if they're specifically made that way, and I don't see why Bohs would agree to that. I assumed they'd have a sell-on clause.

What I'm saying is that these clauses are usually associated with a time limit.


Doyle was transferred before this solidarity thing came into force, probably explains why Cork would not have known. Even if they had known they would have conspired to make a loss anyway :)
Having a quick read of this page FAI page (http://www.fai.ie/football-services-a-education/player-a-club-services/fifa-solidarity-and-compensation-payments.html) it looks to me that,
"Training compensation is paid to all clubs who've trained the player from age 12 to 21"
It applies only to cross juridstiction transfers and applies all down the line to all the clubs the player was registered to in Ireland
but "In the event of any subsequent transfer, compensation is only paid to the previous club."
I assume that means the last club the player was with before leaving Ireland.
It could mean the previous club in England, but that doesn't fit.

If it means the last club in Ireland, then that club is entitled to the solidarity payment for "any subsequent transfer".
All imho.

edit
there is also a calculation there at the bottom of the page
Solidarity Contribution - Payment breakdown
for age when at the Irish club and that calculation covers from age 12 to age 23.

Doyle moved in 2005, solidarity & comp came into effect in 2001.

Either way, I think you are missing the most important part of that page...


These regulations deal with the status and eligibility of Players as well as the rules applicable whenever Players move between clubs belonging to different national associations.

also...


Solidarity Payments
If a transfer occurs between different juristictions when a player is in contract, the fee is then negotiable and 5% of this amount is then distributed pro rata to all clubs involved in his training since the season of his 12th birthday.

How I interpret that page is that it can only apply in that trans-jurisdictional transfer. What happens after that is subject to negotiation at the time of that transfer....?

IMHO... :)

[Charlie Darwin]

What I'm saying is that these clauses are usually associated with a time limit.
How do you know? That sounds most unusual to me.

[SkStu]

I don't know for sure but I've been told by a few people who'd know about these sorts of things that this is quite common.

I do not think this suggestion is as unusual as you seem to think it is - time dependent conditions/clauses are pretty common in all contracts, I don't see why it'd be any different in football.

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't know for sure but I've been told by a few people who'd know about these sorts of things that this is quite common.

I do not think this suggestion is as unusual as you seem to think it is - time dependent conditions/clauses are pretty common in all contracts, I don't see why it'd be any different in football.
What's the selling club's incentive though? A sell-on clause is a sell-on clause, I really don't see what's in it for the selling club if it expires. Buying clubs use additional clauses to bring down the initial cash outlay so they're the ones who need to make concession.

[SkStu]

We're talking about international caps clause, right? I believe that promotion related clauses are also usually time dependent too...

[Charlie Darwin]

Sorry, no, I'm still talking about a sell-on clause. But I don't understand why an international caps clause would expire either, unless the player was actually sold before the event. I can see the need for certain clauses expiring with time but I think for a professional football club, there's no reason why clauses would need to be time-specific.

[geysir]

Doyle moved in 2005, solidarity & comp came into effect in 2001.
I see that but I'm not convinced that it was common knowledge or that it was defined. At least I remember that this issue came up up for discussion in my lifetime on this board as if it was a recent development.
Possibly the rule was there in 2001 but was it doing anything?


Either way, I think you are missing the most important part of that page..

'These regulations deal with the status and eligibility of Players as well as the rules applicable whenever Players move between clubs belonging to different national associations.'
That would appear definitive, but this is the FAI page and maybe their wording causes this interpretation to appear definitive.
When there is ambiguity, it's best to go to the horse's mouth and read the FIFA regulations :party:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/27/64/30/regulationsstatusandtransfer2010_e.pdf

There are two schemes, Training compensation and Solidarity payments,
Training compensation (article 20 and annex 4), it appears is only paid when the transfer of a young professional is cross jurisdiction, but does mention subsequent transfers and do those transfers also have to be cross jurisdiction?
Solidarity payment (article 21 and annex 5 page 65) is different and is a payment scheme to clubs who were involved in his training.

Edit, It would appear to be a 100% certainty that both training and solidarity payments only apply to international transfers. Ward would have to be transferred to another jurisdiction in order for Bohs to get the crumbs.
This article highlights this irregularity in the regulations and more than suggests that this is a designed flaw in the system.
http://www.legal-league.com/law/1498.html

[SkStu]

Sorry, no, I'm still talking about a sell-on clause. But I don't understand why an international caps clause would expire either, unless the player was actually sold before the event. I can see the need for certain clauses expiring with time but I think for a professional football club, there's no reason why clauses would need to be time-specific.

i dont know! These are football clubs we are talking about... hardly the bastions of good decision making!

[SkStu]

I see that but I'm not convinced that it was common knowledge or that it was defined. At least I remember that this issue came up up for discussion in my lifetime on this board as if it was a recent development.
Possibly the rule was there in 2001 but was it doing anything?

Id say it was in fairness!


That would appear definitive, but this is the FAI page and maybe their wording causes this interpretation to appear definitive.
When there is ambiguity, it's best to go to the horse's mouth and read the FIFA regulations :party:

http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/affederation/administration/01/27/64/30/regulationsstatusandtransfer2010_e.pdf

There are two schemes, Training compensation and Solidarity payments,
Training compensation (article 20 and annex 4), it appears is only paid when the transfer of a young professional is cross jurisdiction, but does mention subsequent transfers and do those transfers also have to be cross jurisdiction?
Solidarity payment (article 21 and annex 5 page 65) is different and is a payment scheme to clubs who were involved in his training.

Edit, It would appear to be a 100% certainty that both training and solidarity payments only apply to international transfers. Ward would have to be transferred to another jurisdiction in order for Bohs to get the crumbs.
This article highlights this irregularity in the regulations and more than suggests that this is a designed flaw in the system.
http://www.legal-league.com/law/1498.html

me after reading that... ;)

http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/01043/World_Cup_1982_280_1043416a.jpg

[geysir]

Sure, I do understand that trying to survive in a constant -20C temperature, would leave a man truly demented.

But I'm not sure that you appreciate that it takes true grit for a man to do the tedious research in order to prove himself wrong, after a lesser mortal tried in vain to convince him :)

[SkStu]

It's been between -28 and -48 (with wind chill) for the last couple of days so yes, I'm feeling slightly bonkers.

The only ones who need to do research are those who doubt what they think they know... :D just kidding, good work.

[gastric]

Mick taking his Wolves team to Ipswich including our Stephen it seems!

https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?id=258318594249952&story_fbid=484422511639558

[Grafter]

Stephen Ward: Style Connoisseur:rolleyes:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/23756018

[Charlie Darwin]

Nothing wrong with that - if we ever have to resort to using him again, it's good he'll be playing decent football. His technique on the ball was never really in question.

[Fixer82]

Always saw him as more of a winger/attacking player than a defender.
He's not a good defender really and was turned into a left back by McCarthy to fill a gap.

Apparently he was a cracking stiker underage

[Closed Account 2]

Interesting to note that when Andrews and Ward made their debuts for Brighton they got their first win for Oscar Garcia, in what was potentially their hardest game in league and cup thus far.

[Grafter]

If we do manage somehow to get to Brazil then his nod back to Doyle against the Kazaks will have proven priceless.

[Fixer82]

If we do manage somehow to get to Brazil then his nod back to Doyle against the Kazaks will have proven priceless.

True, the natural striker coming out in him

[Stuttgart88]

It looks like Andrew Lloyd Weber has been so impressed by how Stephen overcame his Euro 2012 disappointment, changed club and got back into the Ireland set up he has written a musical about him. (http://www.stephenwardthemusical.com/)

[paul_oshea]

He looked good last week in the Bournemouth and Brighton game, full of running.

[dr_peepee]

I wonder if a couple of years out of the scrutinty of premiership and international football has aided his development as a left back, given it was not his natural position and he was cutting his teeth Under such glare...What would the opinion be of Ward in the context of the two recent games alone without the baggage? Say for example it was a debut of an unknown quantity.

[Charlie Darwin]

He looked good last week in the Bournemouth and Brighton game, full of running.
Is this the first positive thing you've ever said about Ward?

[DannyInvincible]

I wonder if a couple of years out of the scrutinty of premiership and international football has aided his development as a left back, given it was not his natural position and he was cutting his teeth Under such glare...

He might be out of our glare, but it's not as if his performances will no longer be analysed with as much scrutiny by those for whom he's now playing. That's just the pressure any professional footballer should be able to deal with if he's to cut it at the top.

[Charlie Darwin]

He hasn't been out of international football for a couple of years anyway. He was dropped last September and was in squads as recently as March.

[paul_oshea]

Is this the first positive thing you've ever said about Ward?

No I complemented him for his goal against Liverpool also.

[DannyInvincible]

I complemented him for his goal against Liverpool

Paul duly shows us how it's done again; whilst the rest of us eggheads waste our time dispensing worthless virtual compliments over the internet, Paul, the ardent, practical and proactive realist, not only engages in activities of real-world consequence, he also assists Stephen Ward's goals. :p

[SkStu]

Another assist for Paul O'Shea today as Ward scores the second for Brighton in a 2-0 win against QPR.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Another assist for Paul O'Shea today as Ward scores the second for Brighton in a 2-0 win against QPR.

OnWards and upWards.

[Stuttgart88]

He's consistently good for Brighton, consistently poor to mediocre for Ireland. Either it's a matter of confidence or just simply that there's a huge difference in standard.

Good luck to him though, I'm delighted his club career is going well.

[paul_oshea]

I will compliment my dinner with desert....