Owen Coyle

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Not sure if he's had a thread, but he definitely deserves it.

Done a great job at Burnley and it'd be quality to see him battle his wits in the Premiership. Remember hearing the Burnley chairman herald him as the New Shankley - a bold statement, but he obviously has the knack of successfully moulding together a couple of old heads with a lot of aspiring talent and youth, which is essentially where we are at these days.

I'd love him to become our next manager as he's exactly what we need after Old Trap has kicked a bit of discipline into them. Ambition is obviously burning brightly in him and if he has the same sense of passion that a lot of us brought up over here have got he'll be in it for the long term and want to take us to the very top.

[Jicked]

Ludicrous to talk about giving him an international job on the back of one (very good) season as a manager. Let's not forget what happened to Paul Jewell after a very good season that saw him be linked with the job. Let's just hope Coyle continues to do as well as he's been doing, and maybe one day he could do the business for us too. Same goes for players showing promise, lets let them develop before thrusting them in to a role they may not be up for just yet.

[theworm2345]

Coyle had to register as a player I think because they were hit with many injuries. Scored in the reserves I think as well and I can't remember but might've scored in the England vs Ireland legends game. He said he wouldn't play (and didn't name himself in any squads) but I just wonder if he'd be tempted to name himself in a squad if they got hit with injuries next year (I think Stuart Pearce named himself in a few squads when at City).

[irishfan86]

Definitely one to watch for the future; however, if Trap qualifies us and wants to stick around, that will probably be the first option.

If we qualify, and he doesn't stick around, then I'd say Brady and/or Tardelli would be allowed to continue.

[Claret Murph]

Now I could go on about OC but I won't as most can guess how I feel about him at this moment in time :ball::):ball:

[Stuttgart88]

Outstanding young manager, as is his Preston counterpart.

Burnley nearly lost the plot altogether in Feb/March I think, narrowly losing about 5 or 6 on the trot I think. He did really well to get them back in shape again, something Mick & McLeish just about managed to do with their teams following a similar rut, but Coppell failed to do.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Ludicrous to talk about giving him an international job on the back of one (very good) season as a manager. Let's not forget what happened to Paul Jewell after a very good season that saw him be linked with the job. Let's just hope Coyle continues to do as well as he's been doing, and maybe one day he could do the business for us too. Same goes for players showing promise, lets let them develop before thrusting them in to a role they may not be up for just yet.

Yeah, have to agree. I think Coyles done a brilliant job but at present he's done roughly the same as McCarthy did with Millwall (play offs) before he got the Ireland job so let's not get ahead of ourselves.

Definitely one to watch for the future though, always thought it was a shame he didn't get more caps, could've been in the 94 WC squad for me once Quin was ruled out especially with Cas carrying a knock (would have been harsh leaving any of the 22 out mind you given that most had played some part in the qualifiers and those that hadn't were actually in or around the first 11 by the time the tournament rolled around).

[EalingGreen]

Has the potential to become a great manager, but I can't see him managing ROI, tbh.

For one thing, international management is no longer the pinnacle of a manager's career - see, for example, how Mark Hughes, Walter Smith/Alec McLeish, even Lawrie Sanchez were notably successful with Wales/Scot/NI, before joining clubs which could hardly be described as huge. Therefore if Coyle can manage in the Premiership, either with Burnley or someone else, why would he want to move? David Moyes, for example, could have had the Scotland job had he wanted it, but has never shown any interest.

Speaking of which, even if Coyle did fancy a spell managing an international team as a "stepping stone", I'd imagine he and Scotland would appeal more to each other than he and ROI.

Of course, the sort of money Trapattoni is on would likely tempt him, but Coyle is hardly a big enough "name" for some Sugar Daddy to offer him a package comparable to Trap's. And let's be honest, Trap wouldn't have accepted the ROI job when he was an up-and-coming manager around Coyle's age, either.

[Drumcondra 69er]

Speaking of which, even if Coyle did fancy a spell managing an international team as a "stepping stone", I'd imagine he and Scotland would appeal more to each other than he and ROI.



Why's that? Like when he was a player?

[livehead1]

Why would he want to manage Scotland when he can have the pick of Ireland's, Northern Ireland's and some of Scotland's best young players if he were to manage the Republic :D

[dr_peepee]

Why would he want to manage Scotland when he can have the pick of Ireland's, Northern Ireland's and some of Scotland's best young players if he were to manage the Republic :D

Ha!! Quality:D

[EalingGreen]

Originally Posted by EalingGreen:
"Speaking of which, even if Coyle did fancy a spell managing an international team as a "stepping stone", I'd imagine he and Scotland would appeal more to each other than he and ROI"


Why's that? Like when he was a player?

Yeah, you're right, why would be attracted to managing Scotland? After all, he was only born and brought up there. And played for 12 Scottish clubs. And managed two Scottish clubs before moving to England.

Much more likely that he'd prefer ROI, on the basis of a seven minute appearance as substitute for the ROI in a friendly in Tillberg, at the age of 28, following the FAI's exhumation/discovery of his Irish Granny (or whatever). The fact that he was never remotely good enough to play for Scotland obviously had nothing to do with it...;)

[back of the net]

Not sure if he's had a thread, but he definitely deserves it.

Done a great job at Burnley and it'd be quality to see him battle his wits in the Premiership. Remember hearing the Burnley chairman herald him as the New Shankley - a bold statement, but he obviously has the knack of successfully moulding together a couple of old heads with a lot of aspiring talent and youth, which is essentially where we are at these days.

I'd love him to become our next manager as he's exactly what we need after Old Trap has kicked a bit of discipline into them. Ambition is obviously burning brightly in him and if he has the same sense of passion that a lot of us brought up over here have got he'll be in it for the long term and want to take us to the very top.

"Alot done ,alot more to do" before he gets the ireland job manc


great start for the fella - lets hope he builds on it.

[Gather round]

Until reading this thread, I assumed Owen Coyle considered himself Scottish. I'd forgotten his international cap.

Next Irishman for higher-profile job: could be Rodgers going from Watford to Reading?

[NeilMcD]

Lads not one for usually saying lets get back on topic. But this thread has really been hijacked. Owen Coyle is a manager with great potential and comes across really well. If we become too PC we will lose the whole pointn of this forum

[gustavo]

Exactly , Stay on topic please

[Drumcondra 69er]

Exactly , Stay on topic please

Ddidn't see all the posts that were removed but think it's too much deleting some of the amusing tounge in cheek comments, the site could seriously do with a humour transplant at times. No offence bu in comparison to other forums the mods can be like the stasi on here on occasion when it comes to 'on topic'.

[Claret Murph]

Look a lot will have not seen Burnley play this season or just seen a couple of minutes taken from highlights . Now if any of you get chance to see the play off final you will soon see the way he wants his side to play , on the ground pass and move .
These are heady times at Burnley most have not seen this kind of football played at Turf Moor for over 30 years OC is the reason for this and nobody else .
Those who have seen Stoke play this season then this is the same way as Sheff Utd just hoofball that's all .
OC can go a long way in this game but will he one day manage Ireland is yet to be seen .

[Gather round]

These are heady times at Burnley most have not seen this kind of football played at Turf Moor for over 30 years OC is the reason for this and nobody else...those who have seen Stoke play this season then this is the same way as Sheff Utd just hoofball that's all. OC can go a long way in this game but will he one day manage Ireland is yet to be seen

Aye, I've seen five or six Burnley games on TV this season and they look good. OC's problem, if you go up, will be similar to that faced by Mowbray at WBA this term. Whatever Stoke have done, it seems to have worked.

D9-69er: can only speak for myself, but the deleted comment was drearily predictable rather than tongue-in-cheek funny, alas...

[SunderlandBohs]

I remember when Coyle got the job and think what a terrible move by Burnley. But he has really surprised me. He's put together a squad at Burnley. He's go about his career in the right way. Started at the bottom worked his way up. People forget the job he did at St. Johnstone.

I think if Burley get the bullet of the S.F.A he'll be top of the list given his knowledge of the Scottish and getting the best out of average players. But if he takes or not is another thing. Can see him becoming Celtic manager more so than an international coach.

By the way Ealing Green, how caps did Giovanni Trapattoni get for Ireland?

[Stuttgart88]

I thought Sheff United played really good football for the first 65 minutes on Monday night. Far from just being hoofball. The game was a good advert for Championship footy.

[dr_peepee]

Not to mention Burnleys premiership scalps this season (Including the Spurs one which if had been played in any other Cup in the world would have gone down as a Burnley win)

[Drumcondra 69er]

D9-69er: can only speak for myself, but the deleted comment was drearily predictable rather than tongue-in-cheek funny, alas...

Think you can probably speak for Ealing Green as well to be frank.....;)

[Gather round]

Ok then D69, I speak for all the deleted post(er)s. Predictable, inane comment about NI gets predictably challenged by NI supporters :)

[Drumcondra 69er]

Ok then D69, I speak for all the deleted post(er)s. Predictable, inane comment about NI gets predictably challenged by NI supporters :)

Think the comment was actually about Scotland with a little bit of NI thrown in to be honest and was far removed from what's gone on on that subject in the past, it was an obvious throw away one liner which garnered a predictable response, I'll give you that much.

[NeilMcD]

anyone think that Owen Colyle is going a good job at Burnley then.

[EalingGreen]

Look a lot will have not seen Burnley play this season or just seen a couple of minutes taken from highlights . Now if any of you get chance to see the play off final you will soon see the way he wants his side to play , on the ground pass and move .
These are heady times at Burnley most have not seen this kind of football played at Turf Moor for over 30 years OC is the reason for this and nobody else .
Those who have seen Stoke play this season then this is the same way as Sheff Utd just hoofball that's all .
OC can go a long way in this game but will he one day manage Ireland is yet to be seen .
I saw them Live at WHL, and also followed their progress in other games via the TV (as much as possible).
Do they always play 4-5-1, with Paterson* (or Akinbiye?) the lone man up front, or is that just a tactic they use for certain opponents e.g. Chelsea, or when they have injuries amongst their strikers?

I've enjoyed what I've seen of them and would love to see them get promoted to the EPL and stay there. But they seems to me very much a case of "The Whole being greater than the Sum of the Parts" i.e. Coyle has got them tremendously well organised, and each player gives 100% effort etc.

However, I can't in truth see too many Premier quality individuals in the ranks, so that should they meet Premier opponents who are similarly well organised and who have done their homework on them, then the opponents' superior individuals should prevail.

I say this on the basis of the two games against Spurs, where Burnley were the better team for about 150 mins out of the 210. But when Spurs "cut out" in the remaining 60-odd minutes (2nd half at WHL, Extra Time at TM), their superior class told. And tbh, there are a few better teams than Spurs in the EPL :(

So I'd be afraid that if Burnley did go up, for all Coyle's best efforts once they got there, if he cannot afford to spend on EPL-quality players, they'd struggle to stay up. In which case, Burnley could have trouble holding onto him.

* - Do you think Paterson is going to go "all the way"?

[geysir]

Happy Burnley fan in exile in the US, succeeded in getting his message across on TV at some Wrestling extravaganza

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/football-banter/css/Owen%20Coyle%20Wrestling.jpg

[geysir]

Yeah, you're right, why would be attracted to managing Scotland? After all, he was only born and brought up there. And played for 12 Scottish clubs. And managed two Scottish clubs before moving to England.

Much more likely that he'd prefer ROI, on the basis of a seven minute appearance as substitute for the ROI in a friendly in Tillberg, at the age of 28, following the FAI's exhumation/discovery of his Irish Granny (or whatever). The fact that he was never remotely good enough to play for Scotland obviously had nothing to do with it...;)

You attempt to presume too much, based on knowing next to nothing about Owen.
How many Scottish born, do you think, hold an Irish passport? How many consider themselves Irish or even Sottish and Irish?

It's quite natural for us to have the eye over Owen Coyle. I have been impressed with his character for a long time.
As for managing his country one day, who knows? If he had the ability, a lot of it is down to a vacancy and him being available at a time in his career when that challenge suits him.
But as a successor to Trap, I doubt it, wrong time for both parties.

[eirebhoy]

Much more likely that he'd prefer ROI, on the basis of a seven minute appearance as substitute for the ROI in a friendly in Tillberg, at the age of 28, following the FAI's exhumation/discovery of his Irish Granny (or whatever). The fact that he was never remotely good enough to play for Scotland obviously had nothing to do with it...;)
He represents Ireland every year in the Sky Sports Legends competition... so there! ;)


Ddidn't see all the posts that were removed but think it's too much deleting some of the amusing tounge in cheek comments, the site could seriously do with a humour transplant at times. No offence bu in comparison to other forums the mods can be like the stasi on here on occasion when it comes to 'on topic'.
Have you seen what these threads turn in to if we let them run their course? :)

[seanfhear]

Owen Coyle is one of the most promising young managers around.

He has done a briliant job to get Burnley within one game of the premier league.

If they do go up it would be one hell of a job to keep them there.

[Manc Irish Wolf]

Ludicrous to talk, about giving him an international job on the back of one (very good) season as a manager. Let's not forget what happened to Paul Jewell after a very good season that saw him be linked with the job. Let's just hope Coyle continues to do as well as he's been doing, and maybe one day he could do the business for us too. Same goes for players showing promise, lets let them develop before thrusting them in to a role they may not be up for just yet.

Why is it ludicrous? Many International managers have had a lot less experience than Coyle yet have gone on to do well at International level - Hughes, Klinsmann, (possibly not Staunton) and Mick had less experience but got us to one kick from the last eight.

Watching his football and listening to how perceptive he is you can see that he is one for the future - wouldn't compare him to Jewell (career went on a landslide after his affair) or Bothroyd (A fallacy of a scientific manager with his longball football and preconcieved quotes).

Personally think he will become a top manager and if his alliegence to Ireland is in question, as our future fellow countrymen appear to suggest, surely better to get hold of him sooner rather than later. Irrespective, he is a million times better than Venables and half of the crap touted for the Ireland job prior to Old Trap.

[Razors left peg]

Happy Burnley fan in exile in the US, succeeded in getting his message across on TV at some Wrestling extravaganza

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/football-banter/css/Owen%20Coyle%20Wrestling.jpg
Thats brilliant :D

[Claret Murph]

At the moment at Burnley it's not a worry if they will stay up it's more lets get there first then worry .
The thing about OC what hits me is that he has gone so far this season with Nothing , and I mean nothing to spend at all really . He did get a few players in at the start of the season Chris Eagles which was important as he only came because the style of play OC wanted from the team , of course the cash he was getting paid also .
But like a lot have said who knows what will happen to him he is in the spot light at the moment and fair play to him , all the fans at Burnley want is just one chance at the big time become a yoyo club for six seasons and then stay where so many people in the Burnley area want them to belong .
Anyone got any spare tickets for the final on the 25th :rolleyes:

[seanfhear]

At the moment at Burnley it's not a worry if they will stay up it's more lets get there first then worry .
The thing about OC what hits me is that he has gone so far this season with Nothing , and I mean nothing to spend at all really . He did get a few players in at the start of the season Chris Eagles which was important as he only came because the style of play OC wanted from the team , of course the cash he was getting paid also .
But like a lot have said who knows what will happen to him he is in the spot light at the moment and fair play to him , all the fans at Burnley want is just one chance at the big time become a yoyo club for six seasons and then stay where so many people in the Burnley area want them to belong .
Anyone got any spare tickets for the final on the 25th :rolleyes:
Good luck on the 25th.

[EalingGreen]

You attempt to presume too much, based on knowing next to nothing about Owen.
How many Scottish born, do you think, hold an Irish passport? How many consider themselves Irish or even Sottish and Irish?

It's quite natural for us to have the eye over Owen Coyle. I have been impressed with his character for a long time.
As for managing his country one day, who knows? If he had the ability, a lot of it is down to a vacancy and him being available at a time in his career when that challenge suits him.

But as a successor to Trap, I doubt it, wrong time for both parties.
Dear oh dear...

Someone opens a thread about a promising young manager, with a connection to ROI, and wonders whether he might one day become the ROI manager. Fair enough.

I merely pointed out the danger of going too far down the "Sure isn't he one of us?" route in Coyle's particular case, on the basis that he is also "someone elses".

Indeed, considering his entire background and career etc, it is my opinion that all other things being equal*, he would be more attracted by Scotland, than by ROI.

All of which was enough to bring "the usual suspects" out to lambast me, on the basis that due to my own background etc, I must automatically be anti-ROI and prejudiced.

Of course, I should have risen above this, but I must say I find your post especially irritating, since you presume to lecture me - someone who is British and Irish - about the concept of Dual Nationality.

Worse, you accuse me of being someone who "presumes too much", whilst referring proprietorially to the prospect of Coyle one day "managing his country". Any reasonable observer would have termed it "managing one of his countries"; unless you don't consider that Owen Coyle is also Scottish, and might just conceivably have a greater affinity to the land of his birth, then "the land of his eight minutes"?

* - A dangerous assumption to make, since there is a strong case to make that the Scotland job is a significantly "bigger" one than the ROI position. Or am I being prejudiced for holding that opinion, too?

[geysir]

All of which was enough to bring "the usual suspects" out to lambast me, on the basis that due to my own background etc, I must automatically be anti-ROI and prejudiced.
Not at all, you were politely brought to task, based on the content of your post, the usual chip laden sarcastic post with opinion based on knowing nothing.

Of course, I should have risen above this, but I must say I find your post especially irritating, since you presume to lecture me - someone who is British and Irish - about the concept of Dual Nationality.

:D
Who can forget that,
I have been presuming to lecture you on Dual Nationality for about 2 years now and with good reason :rolleyes:


Worse, you accuse me of being someone who "presumes too much", whilst referring proprietorially to the prospect of Coyle one day "managing his country".Any reasonable observer would have termed it "managing one of his countries"; unless you don't consider that Owen Coyle is also Scottish, and might just conceivably have a greater affinity to the land of his birth, then "the land of his eight minutes"?
There you go again with the 8 minutes.
The country to which he aligned himself in football matters to, is Ireland. He still plays for Ireland. It is an accurate comment to make, that Ireland is his country when it comes to football matters. His nationality is Irish, he holds an Irish passport and is very proud that he came close enough to getting on the WC squad. Doesn't mean that his "Scottishness" is wiped out.

For a dual national yourself you have very little appreciation of the national sentiments of a Dual National and easily sneer at this man's Irishness, a sneer based on "he only played for 8 minutes" while ignoring all the other elements in his life, in Scottish society where Irishness has been engrained for generations.


* - A dangerous assumption to make, since there is a strong case to make that the Scotland job is a significantly "bigger" one than the ROI position. Or am I being prejudiced for holding that opinion, too?
It's just a significantly irrelevant opinion and probably more appropriate for the playground - a place you probably would feel more at home.

[youngirish]

* - A dangerous assumption to make, since there is a strong case to make that the Scotland job is a significantly "bigger" one than the ROI position. Or am I being prejudiced for holding that opinion, too?
Not sure if you're prejudiced (actually I am, you are) but you are talking nonsense as usual, of this I'm 100% certain.

Bigger in what sense? Better paid - no. Better players - not in recent times. Bigger attendances at International matches - no way. Better record in International football in the last 2 decades - not a chance though I'll counter your ridiculous argument that I know is coming next (predictable you most certainly are) that yes they may have done better in some qualifying rounds for the finals in the past few years without either team actually making it but let's be honest who cares? Only NI fans judge their team on relative levels of abysmal failure.

What I will say is two World Cup last 16 appearances and a quarter final to boot in fairly recent times is a better measure of success than performing slightly better in a qualifying group but still failing by a distance to make the final.

I've travelled all over the world and people in every country I've been to and worked in are more knowledgeable about Irish players and the Irish football team than they would be about Scottish players or the Scottish international team and that includes my time living in England.

Remind me how many times have Scotland made it to the knockout stages of a finals competition in their history again? Look that one up in your history book.

The Scotland job is certainly significantly bigger than the Northern Irish one, however.

P.S. I noticed you were very quiet with the rankings postings for the last year or so while ROI were ahead of NI (in fact I commented on your noticeable absence a number of times when rankings were discussed) but as soon as the situation reverses you're back up to your old tricks posting the FIFA rankings every opportunity you get. Does nobody else on here notice these cycles in EG's behavioural patterns? Are you a real person or an automated posting application that's activated whenever NI appear higher than the Republic in the FIFA rankings? And one of your cronies had the nerve to say I was predictable? If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny. Anyway I predict you'll go quiet on the rankings front again fairly soon for an extended length of time.

[EalingGreen]

Not at all, you were politely brought to task, based on the content of your post, the usual chip laden sarcastic post with opinion based on knowing nothing.

Here was my original post on the topic (#8):

"Has the potential to become a great manager, but I can't see him managing ROI, tbh.
For one thing, international management is no longer the pinnacle of a manager's career - see, for example, how Mark Hughes, Walter Smith/Alec McLeish, even Lawrie Sanchez were notably successful with Wales/Scot/NI, before joining clubs which could hardly be described as huge. Therefore if Coyle can manage in the Premiership, either with Burnley or someone else, why would he want to move? David Moyes, for example, could have had the Scotland job had he wanted it, but has never shown any interest.
Speaking of which, even if Coyle did fancy a spell managing an international team as a "stepping stone", I'd imagine he and Scotland would appeal more to each other than he and ROI.
Of course, the sort of money Trapattoni is on would likely tempt him, but Coyle is hardly a big enough "name" for some Sugar Daddy to offer him a package comparable to Trap's. And let's be honest, Trap wouldn't have accepted the ROI job when he was an up-and-coming manager around Coyle's age, either"

There is nothing remotely "chip-laden" about that, nor worthy of provoking the invective which followed from "the usual suspects", who only have to see my name over a post to start the digs and sneers etc, with little or no relevance to what I had actually posted.



I have been presuming to lecture you on Dual Nationality for about 2 years now and with good reason :rolleyes:

From what I see, you've been lecturing everybody on just about every topic under the sun, I daresay for a good deal longer than 2 years....
Anyhow, my point was that Coyle has both Scottish and Irish Nationality; from looking at his background and career, it is not unreasonable to deduce that he is at least as likely to be tempted by the prospect of managing Scotland as he is ROI - a possibility dismissed out-of-hand by a number of posters on this thread.



The country to which he aligned himself in football matters to, is Ireland. He still plays for Ireland. It is an accurate comment to make, that Ireland is his country when it comes to football matters. His nationality is Irish, he holds an Irish passport and is very proud that he came close enough to getting on the WC squad. Doesn't mean that his "Scottishness" is wiped out.

If you insist on "accuracy", then his footballing country is "Republic of Ireland". And of course he holds an Irish Passport - it comes with representing ROI at football. But do you know that he doesn't also possess a British Passport?
As for his pride in nearly making the senior ROI squad - no doubt that is so. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been equally (or more?) proud to have played for Scotland. But considering that the Jocks had strikers like Ally McCoist, Jukebox Durie and Kevin Gallagher then available to them, for all his goals with lesser clubs, Coyle will never have been in contention (like Tommy Coyne, the man he replaced in Holland?)



For a dual national yourself you have very little appreciation of the national sentiments of a Dual National and easily sneer at this man's Irishness, a sneer based on "he only played for 8 minutes" while ignoring all the other elements in his life, in Scottish society where Irishness has been engrained for generations.

My "8 minute" sneer was not at Coyle, for I've no doubt he was proud to get them. Rather, it was pointed at those ROI fans who automatically claim Coyle (exclusively) as "one of our own", whilst overlooking the fact that he is at least as Scottish as he is Irish.



It's just a significantly irrelevant opinion and probably more appropriate for the playground - a place you probably would feel more at home.
My opinion that the Scotland job is arguably "bigger" than the ROI job is not at all irrelevant to a discussion over which of the two might be more likely to appeal to Coyle.
It is easy to forget that most successful football managers are very ambitious and career-oriented etc. To take a notable example, Martin O'Neill could have walked into the NI job any time he wanted, ditto the ROI job. Yet he has never shown an interest in either. Meanwhile, he applied to manage England.
Quite honestly, the only reason this can have appealed to so (otherwise) proud an Irishman as O'Neill is that the England job is in every respect bar trophies one of the "biggest" in international football.
So remind me again, what is particularly "playground" about that opinion? :rolleyes:

As I see it, the only antics which are fit for the school playground come from those who cannot accept someone like me coming on here and daring to express an opinion which contradicts the norm.

[NeilMcD]

Anyone think that Owen Coyle could be a good manager for the future. Doing great work at Burnley. :)

[ifk101]

Anyone think that Owen Coyle could be a good manager for the future. Doing great work at Burnley. :)

I've yet to be convinced. However maybe we should approach him and see if he is interested in the U21 job.

[Gather round]

Only NI fans judge their team on relative levels of abysmal failure

I think not. Most fans of most teams who rarely qualify tend to do this, including the Republic of Ireland (one finals of the last seven) and Scotland (none of the last five). Were it as you claim, there wouldn't be any RoI or Scotland fans claiming that they're better than NI, or other third-rate "failure".


What I will say is two World Cup last 16 appearances and a quarter final to boot in fairly recent times is a better measure of success than performing slightly better in a qualifying group but still failing by a distance to make the final

It's a measure of past success. In "fairly recent times" (eight years) you haven't beaten a higher ranked country.


I've travelled all over the world and people in every country I've been to and worked in are more knowledgeable about Irish players and the Irish football team than they would be about Scottish players or the Scottish international team and that includes my time living in England

I've also travelled widely around the World. In recent years, your typical Slovene, Italian or German (for example) fan has only a sketchy knowledge of either team (because they tend not to qualify for international tournaments), although they do usually know a bit more about a country that's represented in the Champs League every year, than one with a semi-pro league.


P.S. I noticed you were very quiet with the rankings postings for the last year or so while ROI were ahead of NI

NI are ahead because we a) comfortably outpointed you in the last 12-game series, and b) are slightly ahead this time albeit having played a game more.

Of course that might change by October, but why get your knickers in a twist? You're not interested in non-winning mediocrity, remember?


And one of your cronies had the nerve to say I was predictable? If it wasn't so tragic it would be funny

Er, you are predictable. You just can't resist digs against Northern Ireland, even when as inane and self-contradicting as above. You can't be surprised when they're challenged.

[youngirish]

It's a measure of past success. In "fairly recent times" (eight years) you haven't beaten a higher ranked country.



I've also travelled widely around the World. In recent years, your typical Slovene, Italian or German (for example) fan has only a sketchy knowledge of either team (because they tend not to qualify for international tournaments), although they do usually know a bit more about a country that's represented in the Champs League every year, than one with a semi-pro league.


The usual selective facts from Gather Round that bear no relation to the previous posts. No Irish International players play in the LOI so I have no idea why you even mentioned the respective leagues. It bears no relation to the statement I made. Also if you want to bring the Champions League into it a number of current Irish International players have played in at least the semi finals of the Champions League in fairly recent years (Duff, Finnan and JOS). How many Scots have? Nearly all foreign football fans know Robbie Keane. I doubt if most could name more than 2 or 3 Scottish players.

As for foreigners only remembering International tournaments Ireland have been in one in fairly recent times with a number of the current set of players while Scotland haven't so again I ask what's your point? It sounds like you are inadvertently agreeing with me. I'm also a bit sceptical regarding how much you interacted with the locals during your cheap ryanair weekend trips away in Slovenia and Italy as your experiences seem to vastly differ from mine and many of my work colleagues having lived and worked abroad for over 10 years now.

Finally we beat Holland less than 8 years ago but alas I'm not surprised you also got that fact wrong along with many others.

[geysir]

My "8 minute" sneer was not at Coyle, for I've no doubt he was proud to get them. Rather,it was pointed at those ROI fans who automatically claim Coyle (exclusively) as "one of our own", whilst overlooking the fact that he is at least as Scottish as he is Irish.
Your "land of 8 minutes" comment regarding the extent of Coyle's Irish identity, certainly reads like one of your typical sneers.
No matter what way I look at it, it reads as a sneer, as if his 8 minutes defines the extent his real connection to Ireland.

You wrote

unless you don't consider that Owen Coyle is also Scottish, and might just conceivably have a greater affinity to the land of his birth, then "the land of his eight minutes"?

There is no indication that you were directing the "land of his minutes"
at Ireland fans. Not even in the context of the whole of your reply.
I can only conclude, that either you have a very bizarre writing style where we are suppose to know what you are thinking, or more likely you are backtracking to make an incredible case for cover.

[NeilMcD]

Anybody think that Owen coyle can make it as a top manager. Seems to be doing a great job at Burnley so far.

[Gather round]

The usual selective facts from Gather Round that bear no relation to the previous posts

Not so. I was answering your posts (completely irrelevant to the subject of the thread, but hey).


No Irish International players play in the LOI so I have no idea why you even mentioned the respective leagues. It bears no relation to the statement I made

It directly answered your anecdotal claim that Republic of Ireland football is better known abroad than Scottish- which just doesn't ring true in my anecdotal experience. Fans elsewhere in Europe just aren't that interested in either (or Wales or Northern Ireland's), because over a decent length of time (10-15 years at least) we've all tended not to qualify for tournaments. Ireland's most famous ever footballer, George Best, got a respectful but brief obituary in German football magazine, in contrast to the reams of coverage in all British and Irish media.

Abroad just ain't that interested, you know.


Also if you want to bring the Champions League into it a number of current Irish International players have played in at least the semi finals of the Champions League in fairly recent years (Duff, Finnan and JOS). How many Scots have?

One, last week. With due respect to Duff and Finnan, their exploits in the CL haven't added as much to RoI's profile in the competition, as Scotland having a team in the group stages most years has.


Nearly all foreign football fans know Robbie Keane

Again, I like Robbie Keane, but steady on. He doesn't play in the CL, and his World Cup appearance was in 2002. And see point about George Best above.


I doubt if most could name more than 2 or 3 Scottish players

Your "doubt" isn't based on anything other than being an RoI fan who talks about RoI players when watching RoI abroad, is it? I mean, fair enough, but it's a bit limiting when dismissing other teams?


As for foreigners only remembering International tournaments Ireland have been in one in fairly recent times with a number of the current set of players while Scotland haven't so again I ask what's your point?

At risk of repeating myself, it was a long time ago and it wasn't sustained?


It sounds like you are inadvertently agreeing with me

No, read more carefully and you'll see I disagree with all your points quoted above. Which I'm only making to answer your digs at NI, of course.


I'm also a bit sceptical regarding how much you interacted with the locals during your cheap ryanair weekend trips away in Slovenia and Italy as your experiences seem to vastly differ from mine and many of my work colleagues having lived and worked abroad for over 10 years now

I went by train to both actually (and similarly to the U-21 game in Germany), so met plenty of locals on the journey, as well as in the pub before and after the game.

I'm not claiming that you're dishonest (although I take your point that as we're two anonymous guys on the internet, the whole exchange could be invented). Just that you're really offering nothing more than anecdote to back up your bias.


Finally we beat Holland less than 8 years ago but alas I'm not surprised you also got that fact wrong along with many others

Most would agree that 1 September 2001 was eight years ago. And you haven't corrected any other 'factual' errors.

Do better. Or stick to what you know.

[Drumcondra 69er]

As for his pride in nearly making the senior ROI squad - no doubt that is so. But that doesn't mean he wouldn't have been equally (or more?) proud to have played for Scotland. But considering that the Jocks had strikers like Ally McCoist, Jukebox Durie and Kevin Gallagher then available to them, for all his goals with lesser clubs, Coyle will never have been in contention (like Tommy Coyne, the man he replaced in Holland?)


You really think a strike force including Durie, McCoist and Gallagher (and Scott Booth, Darren Jackson and John Spencer made up the numbers in their next finals in the Euro 96 squad) would be more difficult to break into then one containing Aldridge, Cascarino, Quinn, David Kelly and Coyne?

Catch yourself on, I mean seriously.....

Owen Coyle was always up front about his Irish heritage and what it meant to him, I'd argue it would have been easier to break into the Scottish squad myself.

[NeilMcD]

Well done lads for ruining a good thread about Owen Coyle

[geysir]

Looks to be an evenly enough matched play off final according to the bookies.
Burnley 9/5
SU 6/4

[EalingGreen]

You really think a strike force including Durie, McCoist and Gallagher (and Scott Booth, Darren Jackson and John Spencer made up the numbers in their next finals in the Euro 96 squad) would be more difficult to break into then one containing Aldridge, Cascarino, Quinn, David Kelly and Coyne?

Catch yourself on, I mean seriously.....

Owen Coyle was always up front about his Irish heritage and what it meant to him, I'd argue it would have been easier to break into the Scottish squad myself.
I didn't claim that it was easier for Coyle to get a full ROI cap than a Scotland one. I merely pointed out that realistically, he wasn't ever close to getting a full Scotland cap, which might partly have explained his "choice" of ROI. That's all.