European Parliament Elections 2009

[holidaysong]

By the way, here is a diagram of the voting patterns of the groups in the EP 2004-2009:

http://i497.photobucket.com/albums/rr338/holidaysong/Other/EUpatterns.jpg

I can only assume the outlying EPP-ED group to the bottom right are British Conservatives - who will leave the grouping following this election.

[Bald Student]

A cynical man might say one of the following things:

FF stood idly by while the Americans used Ireland as a base to facilitate bombing in the middle east
Key FF members were seriously implicated in a gun and bomb running scandal in the 1970's
FF exist as a result of a campaign of violence in the 1920's

None of these things make them terrorists or sympathisers and clearly FF are not the IRA, but we all need to note the not too recent past history.

Mary Lou appeals because of her clarity, coherence and efforts during the Lisbon campaign - she was extremely articulate and engaged. I have no time for SF normally - policies completely bonkers but she deserves credit for that effortLike I said, we have to weigh up each candidates advantages and disadvantages. When I balance her skills as an articulate speaker against other politicians' opposition to blowing people up, my scales tip a particular way.

[bennocelt]

All this is just a nice way of saying..............."I will vote for FF":rolleyes:


Ever hear of a protest vote? - obviously not - go on be a good lad and vote for FF, or FF lite (Fg) or even the Labour party that appeals to all except common sense.

The Euro vote is not different at all - it could have a serious affect on Cowen and his continuing in power

And correct me if I am wrong but most of todays parties were decendent from the 1916 and all that - so any ideas of the past is just talking rubbish

As for me - i would even vote FG ahead of FF - eeeggghhh, shiver:eek:

No matter what - we will never get rid of the status quo - Irish people are too dumb for democracy

[pete]

Mary Lou appeals because of her clarity, coherence and efforts during the Lisbon campaign - she was extremely articulate and engaged. I have no time for SF normally - policies completely bonkers but she deserves credit for that effort

I have always seen her as an air head. She would one of the last Shinners I would vote for if had a gun to my head.

[Ringo]

I have always seen her as an air head. She would one of the last Shinners I would vote for if had a gun to my head.

Would you really vote for her if someone had a gun to your head? Are you suggesting SF hasn’t given up the gun? Oh sorry they never had it:rolleyes:. She's the new D4 (Castleknock i know) acceptable face/voice of SF. The unionists in the north must be looking on at all the parties here saying they'd never go into government with SF in bewilderment. I don't like them or trust them, but the way "Inda" & the greens have being carrying on the last few days is a joke. They are just as legitimate as the stickies of Labour. Ah yes, Sinn Fein the workers party have complete control of the Labour party now.

[pete]

Military issues don't even need to come into the decision as I would vote for far left SF policies such that they even have policies these days. In the last GE they adopted the low corporation tax policy of all the other mainstream parties but I don't for one minute believe they really agree with that. They don't have any policies as everything is to "create an Ireland of equals" & no specifics.

[Lionel Ritchie]

The unionists in the north must be looking on at all the parties here saying they'd never go into government with SF in bewilderment. I don't like them or trust them, but the way "Inda" & the greens have being carrying on the last few days is a joke.

With respect, that's comparing an apple with an ...erm, orange.
Outside the loopers in the so-called TUV who seem to want a return to good old fashioned majority rule and all that went with it there is a de facto acceptance pretty much everywhere else in Unionism that the price of having a nice, stable cleaved off canton to call ones own is not only going into government with Sinn Fein but sharing power with them. To be blunt -they ordered s**t and are now tucking in.

There is no such pressure on any political body down here and effectively they can have a higher bar. Hence if, say, Jacky Healy Rae announced he regretted the murder of a garda by members of the IRA (who were on an unsanctioned personal earner rather than "active service" incidently) but couldn't bring himself to condenm it then the government couldn't and wouldn't accept his support.

[pete]

The NI government is like Dublin City council. AFAIK it doesn't raise much of any taxes & just has limited scope to spend their sub from the British government. I think its just a means of buying off politicians up there. If they don't agree toi "govern" together they don't get paid.

It cannot be equated to the formation of a government in the ROI with SF.

[Réiteoir]

Well - we had the Euro Elections here today (as I'm in the UK)

Had great pleasure going into the polling booth - and not putting an "X" next to the entry which read "Libertas".

Felt quite good tbh

[bennocelt]

so did u vote for the BNP then?:p
popular enuff around here in east london - but then Millwall are the local team:)

[AnnaghRed]

Outside the loopers in the so-called TUV who seem to want a return to good old fashioned majority rule and all that went with it there is a de facto acceptance pretty much everywhere else in Unionism that the price of having a nice, stable cleaved off canton to call ones own is not only going into government with Sinn Fein but sharing power with them.

Its got **** all to do with having a nice litle canton to ones own but rather preventing generations of working class Irish youth from cutting the **** out of each other. Ar*ehole.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Its got **** all to do with having a nice litle canton to ones own but rather preventing generations of working class Irish youth from cutting the **** out of each other. Ar*ehole.

Which is why I put the word STABLE in italics AR. But there, I've put it in caps and bold for you now as well.

:rolleyes:

[AnnaghRed]

Which is why I put the word STABLE in italics AR. But there, I've put it in caps and bold for you now as well.

:rolleyes:

Why not shove it up your ass while you're at it?

[Lionel Ritchie]

Annagh, you seem determined to be offended, to say little of infracted or banned for personalised abuse and flaming. So please, have a cocoa, go to bed and call back tomorrow if you'd like to discuss this and offer opions in a more adult manner.

night, night.

[AnnaghRed]

Offended is right. I lost family and friends to "Sinn Fein" but i'd vote for them tomorrow if it stopped another pointless death. **** all to do with a cosy little NI.

[Lionel Ritchie]

Offended is right. I lost family and friends to "Sinn Fein" but i'd vote for them tomorrow if it stopped another pointless death. **** all to do with a cosy little NI.

Okay ...hold the horses. Why do I get the impression you think I'm a Sinn Fein supporter?

Like yourself, if I lived in NI, I'd possibly vote for them (though it'd gall me to do so) if I thought it'd save life by creating a more stable political environment. What I was pointing out is that there is relatively little such imperative to include them down here on this side of the border.

That, from my perspective, is just the political reality -and one which the likes of the TUV wish to ignore.

[AnnaghRed]

Why do I get the impression you think I'm a Sinn Fein supporter?

I dont know where your allegiance lies, neither do I care. But i do object to you intimating that unionists, such as myself, who voted pro-GFA and accepted SF in government, did so for any other reason than to stop the slaughter.

[Gather round]

The unionists in the north must be looking on at all the parties here saying they'd never go into government with SF in bewilderment

I think unionists are used to it by now- southern parties have been saying it for decades, after all. It's widely regarded as a hypocritical attitude by FF, FG etc.


Military issues don't even need to come into the decision as I would vote for far left SF policies such that they even have policies these days. In the last GE they adopted the low corporation tax policy of all the other mainstream parties but I don't for one minute believe they really agree with that. They don't have any policies as everything is to "create an Ireland of equals" & no specifics

Indeed- little mention of cutting CT in this recent detailed statement by Mary Lou McDonald:

http://www.sinnfein.ie/contents/16451


With respect, that's comparing an apple with an ...erm, orange

Orange and lemon would be a better analogy. They're not distant countries knowing little of one another, but next door neighbors with the same party standing in both :)


Outside the loopers in the so-called TUV

Opposing forced coalition with paramilitarism isn't 'loopy' per se. Traditional Unionist Voice seems an accurate enough name for what the party represents- it's certainly no odder than 'Ourselves', 'Labour', 'Soliders of Destiny', 'Conservative', or 'Gaelic Legions'...


who seem to want a return to good old fashioned majority rule

TUV is not opposed to shared local government with nationalists.


a nice, stable cleaved off canton to call ones own

A nice, non-provocative term, that.


To be blunt -they ordered s**t and are now tucking in

Or alternatively, they lived with paramilitaries murdering thousands over decades, and don't want the paramilitaries' political wing in government until they, er, dissociate from paramilitarism?


There is no such pressure on any political body down here and effectively they can have a higher bar

Pressure on political parties in the Republic is arguably as great now as at any time since 1921- economic catastrophe, collapse of tax income, vast unemployment and the rest. Compared to all that, whether or not Cowen or Kenny end up having to cosy with Mary Lou in Dail Eireann is relatively small beer. But, like I said, getting all high and mighty about it is hypocritical.

[Lionel Ritchie]

But i do object to you intimating that unionists, such as myself, who voted pro-GFA and accepted SF in government, did so for any other reason than to stop the slaughter.

I'm failing to see where what you're saying here differs from my intimations.

NI was inherently unstable and racked by sectarian violence (which sadly hasn't gone away but is much diminished).

NI then voted for and got the powersharing executive and, though it sometimes seems to lurch from one crisis to the next, is undeniably more stable and more peaceful than was hitherto the case.

Stopping the slaughter and creating a stable, bedded in powersharing administration are inherently linked in NI. One facilitated the other.

[redron]

Meanwhile, back to the election campaign...

Will Joe Higgins win the last seat in Dublin?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2paLzGtQ8Fg

[Réiteoir]

so did u vote for the BNP then?:p
popular enuff around here in east london - but then Millwall are the local team:)

went with Socialist Labour in the end - the party revived by none other than Arthur Scargill...

[bennocelt]

went with Socialist Labour in the end - the party revived by none other than Arthur Scargill...

wow - i thought he was dead:)
rock on:)

[bennocelt]

Euro results in today

just looking at some of the results in so far from the locals - jesus still in this great country of ours we have 25% of mentally retarded people who will still vote for FF no matter what:mad:

I know what these people are like, they mostly follow Gah, first up at church in the morning and are real patriots (know one shower laughing at me once for reading the Daily Mirror - ok i know its a rubbish paper but was for sports - it was too "British" for them - and they buying the Star!!! - that kind of inward boggersih mentality)

Jesus what a country Ireland is!!!!!
Will FF ever go away:eek:

[Ringo]

Euro results in today

just looking at some of the results in so far from the locals - jesus still in this great country of ours we have 25% of mentally retarded people who will still vote for FF no matter what:mad:

I know what these people are like, they mostly follow Gah, first up at church in the morning and are real patriots (know one shower laughing at me once for reading the Daily Mirror - ok i know its a rubbish paper but was for sports - it was too "British" for them - and they buying the Star!!! - that kind of inward boggersih mentality)

Jesus what a country Ireland is!!!!!
Will FF ever go away:eek:

Its called democracy:rolleyes: and whats with using people with an Intellectual disability to make a cheap shot at people who vote differently to yourself. It has nothing to do with why people vote one way or another.

[Poor Student]

just looking at some of the results in so far from the locals - jesus still in this great country of ours we have 25% of mentally retarded people who will still vote for FF no matter what:mad:


One could be equally as disturbed that we're on the verge of voting a member of the Socialst Party as an MEP in our capital city.

[eamo1]

FAO Poor Student:who are you referring to as the Socialist in the captial??I know results cant be given out till tonight but i was out all yesterday and didnt even hear any "projected results".Anyone hear anything about the North-West Projected Results?

[Red&White Rover]

Haven't heard anything yet, but Ganley was doing much better than expected and could be fighting for that third seat.

I can't believe people would still vote FF after they've been shown to be completely incompetent and full of career politicians with no interest other than their own aspirations.

Mental.

[Poor Student]

FAO Poor Student:who are you referring to as the Socialist in the captial??

Joe Higgins. He's contending that third seat with Ryan and Mary Lou, although from what I hear she's the one likely to get it.

[pete]

FG have a good chance of taking the last seat in Ireland South (2 from 3 seats) as Labour lower than expected. Would make up for the expected loss of 2nd seat in Ireland East.

Ganley seems to think he has a chance in the North West.

[sligoman]

Ganley seems to think he has a chance in the North West.He got a lot more votes than expected in Sligo anyway. Harkin still topped by a lot but Ganley 2nd iirc.

[pete]

He got a lot more votes than expected in Sligo anyway. Harkin still topped by a lot but Ganley 2nd iirc.

Surely Ganley will struggle for transfers? Can't see FF or FG passing him on any votes...

[pineapple stu]

Was chatting to a few of the Monaghan ultras after the game on Friday and they reckoned he wasn't going to near the running in their neck of the woods anyway.

[Poor Student]

It's hard to take in the bigger picture in parliament elections but there seems to be a slight shift towards the right overall: http://www.rte.ie/news/elections/stories/2009/0607/eupolitics.html

[John83]

It's hard to take in the bigger picture in parliament elections but there seems to be a slight shift towards the right overall: http://www.rte.ie/news/elections/stories/2009/0607/eupolitics.html
There are a lot of protest votes flying around, and the far right is a lot more visible than the far left across Europe.

[Réiteoir]

http://www.rte.ie/news/elections/european/northwest_counts.html

Ganley and his Libertas mob getting pulverised all across Europe - resorting to grabbing at straws in the Count in the Northwest...

[pete]

There are a lot of protest votes flying around, and the far right is a lot more visible than the far left across Europe.

The EPP are centre-right mainstream group who will be by far the biggest group again. Recessions would usually see a move to the left.

There will always be a few wackos on the far left & right in these elections. BNP won a seat in Manchester. UKIP second large overall vote in the UK.

It really will be a black day if Ganley, McDonald & Ferris get in.

[holidaysong]

It really will be a black day if Ganley, McDonald & Ferris get in.

Thankfully I don't think any of those will get a seat. The BNP having an elected MEP is scary.. :(

[Red&White Rover]

Crazy.

I know people in times of hardship will swing to the extremes, either right or left, but a supposedly first world country, with an educated population electing the BNP is just scary...

[holidaysong]

It was Yorkshire where they won it and not Manchester as Pete stated. Their leader is also expected to take a seat in the North West constituency. Scary stuff alright.

[holidaysong]

According to politics.ie an rsf candidate has been elected to the galway county council. I think they actually run as independants though - they're not registered as a political party. Micro groups are always gonna get an increase in support in harsh times

I read last week that they wanted to run under the name 'Sinn Féin Poblachtach' but weren't allowed to do so in case people mistook them for the other Sinn Féin so they decided to go instead as independents rather than have to use a different party name.

[bennocelt]

Its called democracy:rolleyes: and whats with using people with an Intellectual disability to make a cheap shot at people who vote differently to yourself. It has nothing to do with why people vote one way or another.

so u voted FF then did you:rolleyes: At least be honest man

People who voted FF are retarded - get over it

Modern democracy is flawed anyway - whats the use of it if the people are ill informed, dumbed down and brain washed. Here in the Uk more people voted on Britatins Got Talent than the Euro Election!!!
Also election issues in Ireland that I heard on the radio..........
"if they paint my gate I will vote for them"
"if they install a tolet in the town centre......."
"I wasnt going to vote FF but then Brian Cowen came into say hello, now I will give him my number 1"

Yeah baby democracy - its great:mad:

As Bill Hicks would say "go and read a f***ing book"!!!!!!!!! (may I suggest that you take a break from the gah and your early morning prayers to read Damien Corless' "Gubu Nation", or the excellent Gene Kerrigan's "How to Suceed in Irish Politcs" - it will make you laugh ...........and then cry!!!)


Apparently he is getting a fair amount of transfers from the sf candidate. It really will be a case of the lunatics taking over the asylum if he gets in

as opposed to FF in power:rolleyes:


The EPP are centre-right mainstream group who will be by far the biggest group again. Recessions would usually see a move to the left.

There will always be a few wackos on the far left & right in these elections. BNP won a seat in Manchester. UKIP second large overall vote in the UK.

It really will be a black day if Ganley, McDonald & Ferris get in.

how so, it will be a great day
what you would prefer FF in:rolleyes:

[Dodge]

bennocelt, take this as mod warning, calm down!

There's load of differing opinions here and you're the only one losing the rag and callong people retards.

Speaking for myself, not as mod, its easy to pick apart FF and others policies without resorting to namecalling and rolling your eyes after every post, so do that and calm down

[passinginterest]

Bennocelt I think you're confusing local politics with national politics to a certain extent. While I didn't do it myslef I can understand to an degree voting for a Fianna Fail councillor who has done good work in the local area in the local elections. Fianna Fail were routed in the bye elections, where the national interest was primary and suffered a fairly big hit in the Euro's. Personally I can't comprehend how people can still vote Fianna Fail in a national election, then again I can't comprehend how they vote Sinn Fein or Libertas either. I do however respect their right to do so.

[bennocelt]

bennocelt, take this as mod warning, calm down!

There's load of differing opinions here and you're the only one losing the rag and callong people retards.

Speaking for myself, not as mod, its easy to pick apart FF and others policies without resorting to namecalling and rolling your eyes after every post, so do that and calm down

fair enuff
just really really HATE FF (done ala Father ted accent!):p
tehy do make my eyes roll though

[Ringo]

Bennocelt I think you're confusing local politics with national politics to a certain extent. While I didn't do it myslef I can understand to an degree voting for a Fianna Fail councillor who has done good work in the local area in the local elections. Fianna Fail were routed in the bye elections, where the national interest was primary and suffered a fairly big hit in the Euro's. Personally I can't comprehend how people can still vote Fianna Fail in a national election, then again I can't comprehend how they vote Sinn Fein or Libertas either. I do however respect their right to do so.

I've made no secret of the fact that I’ve voted & been a member of FF in the past. (not for about 15 years now). I don't think that makes me retarded. I always admire anyone with an active interest in politics & I admire politicians from all parties who take part in the political system. I similarly don't agree with policies of certain parties, but I enjoy politics & enjoy elections. I have major problems with FF at the moment, I feel there is a serious lack of leadership. It’s all very well people saying they want change & get FF out, but we need a credible alternative, which doesn't seem to be there at the moment. I think we got a great view of democracy Benocelt , FF got a drumming. If people choose not to vote or get involved in political parties, they can't complain when the main parties keep getting back in. Its just as much their right in a democray , not to care & not to vote.

[holidaysong]

As passinginterest states, it's important to differentiate between local and national elections. However, I think it's important to also differentiate between a Dáil and European election. I gave Labour, FG, FF and the Greens preferences in the European elections. I'm very much pro-European integration and therefore I obviously only wanted to vote for pro-Lisbon candidates. It was a European election and should therefore be fought over European issues. I don't see how giving FF and the Greens a preference in these elections would make me retarded? If it had to be a general election then that would be a different story..

[Dodge]

Unfortunately holidaysong, from peaking to my political activist friends (labour and FF) the only thing 99% of people canvassed were interested in was the economy (and the various strands in there). The Greens were anhilated solely on their (perceived) part to play in this government. (The poor showing of Libertas is a clear message that Lisbon wasn't an issue)

Funny for me watching Noel Dempsey trying to spin the results yesterday in RTE "We're being punished for having to make tough decisions", Pat Rabbitte replied "You're being punished for getting us into this mess in the first place!"

[pete]

Funny for me watching Noel Dempsey trying to spin the results yesterday in RTE "We're being punished for having to make tough decisions",

That makes me laugh too. Its up there with "stronger leadership" & "action required" speeches.

If anything the government are being punished for not making the decisions as they chickened out of making them as long as possible - 3 budgets in less than a year shows that.

[Macy]

You're both wrong, it's because we don't understand the situation, not because we know who's responsibile. Hence all the talk about "improving communication" about the "hard decisions" they are taking.

[holidaysong]

Unfortunately holidaysong, from peaking to my political activist friends (labour and FF) the only thing 99% of people canvassed were interested in was the economy (and the various strands in there). The Greens were anhilated solely on their (perceived) part to play in this government. (The poor showing of Libertas is a clear message that Lisbon wasn't an issue)

On that, RTÉ are saying that "Nessa Childers (Lab) and John Paul Phelan (FG), both pro-EU, were the main benificiaries of Raymond O'Malley’s (Libertas) distributed votes."

It makes you wonder who the people who voted Libertas are and what their motivation was that they wouldn't transfer to SF.