View Full Version : European Parliament Elections 2009
superfrank
27/05/2009, 2:30 PM
A lot of jobs that are available are high level jobs, that only a select number of people can apply for, and who are usually already in employment anyway.
I was over in Madrid back in March and there were more "people wanted" signs in shops there then there are here. I was really surprised because Spain has always had a high level of unemployment, something like 17%, iirc.
Yet despite the recession as well as high unemployment, there were still more places like Burger King, shoe shops, etc. actively looking for staff then over here. And that was just one European country.
A lot of jobs that are available are high level jobs, that only a select number of people can apply for, and who are usually already in employment anyway.
Seeing as you editted it
ANy stats for this? Or are you only using my example. Either way, if that person leaves their current job, it frees up a job here.
And why should the Gvernment act in a way to discourage Irish people from taking jobs abroad? How will that help anyone? Regardless of level?
mypost
27/05/2009, 3:05 PM
Yet despite the recession as well as high unemployment, there were still more places like Burger King, shoe shops, etc. actively looking for staff then over here. And that was just one European country.
True, Burger King and McD are advertising here too. How many applications did they get in Galway/Ennis recently? How come everyone suddenly wants to work for them?
ANy stats for this? Or are you only using my example.
There are no stats. However, go onto any job website today, and choose any industry, and you'll see for yourself the requirements needed just to apply for the position, let alone get an interview, or succeed in it. Beginner level jobs are very much in the minority.
So you admit there's jobs available for Irish people and you want Libertas to stop them getting the jobs?
I got a Libertas leaflet and found it pretty laughable. 3/4 of it was covered with attacks on other parties, before a wee bit about about themselves.
They're in favour of jobs and development apparently.
Which is nice.
They strike me as a very sinister organization to be honest, they'll only manage to creep above SF on my ballot paper.
OneRedArmy
27/05/2009, 3:58 PM
The EU has 500 million citizens. A few thousand jobs available, is nowhere near the level needed to reduce the level of unemployment throughout the Union significantly, or stimulate economies.
A lot of jobs that are available are high level jobs, that only a select number of people can apply for, and who are usually already in employment anyway.Please can you provide evidence that there are more management jobs available than entry level in the EU.
That's a mad statement tbh, completely unsupportable.
mypost
27/05/2009, 4:00 PM
I got a Libertas leaflet and found it pretty laughable. 3/4 of it was covered with attacks on other parties, before a wee bit about about themselves.
They strike me as a very sinister organization to be honest, they'll only manage to creep above SF on my ballot paper.
FF are a sinister organisation too. Doesn't stop people voting for them.
Attacking other parties is to campaigning, as eating and drinking.
OneRedArmy
27/05/2009, 4:08 PM
FF are a sinister organisation too. Doesn't stop people voting for them.
Attacking other parties is to campaigning, as eating and drinking.FF aren't sinister, it's clear as day they are out to serve themselves and a small cabal of special interests.
Libertas only common ground is dissatisfaction with the current European structure. Their policies are contradictory and unclear, and their financing is a complete black hole.
Bald Student
27/05/2009, 4:22 PM
Attacking other parties is to campaigning, as eating and drinking.
I agree, well put.
John83
27/05/2009, 4:23 PM
... Libertas... strike me as a very sinister organization to be honest, they'll only manage to creep above SF on my ballot paper.
Neither will get a vote on mine. I'll have voted for some people who are sure to get in before my vote would ever reach either of them. Libertas seem to believe in negative campaigning, pandering to popular fears and dodgy funding. And frankly, if I want any of that, I'll vote FF.
People can't emigrate, because there are no jobs in the UK, like there are no jobs here. The recession isn't just restricted to Ireland, you know.
Amoung developed countries Irelands is being hit worse than all other countries besides Iceland. I presume this is because we are doubly hit because of global issues as well as collapse of property market. It is very likely that other countries will see recovery faster than Ireland because they have not fallen as badly.
I am not sure why we are even debating stupid Libertas policy as there is no chance it will ever see the light of day. Unless Ganley can get a lot of transfers there won;t be any Libertas MEPs from Ireland. It will however be very interesting to see where Libertas get their transfers...
mypost
27/05/2009, 4:49 PM
Amoung developed countries Irelands is being hit worse than all other countries besides Iceland. I presume this is because we are doubly hit because of global issues as well as collapse of property market. It is very likely that other countries will see recovery faster than Ireland because they have not fallen as badly.
The main reasons we're hit, is down to the collapse of the construction indsustry, and government levy policy. There is nothing there to get the economy moving again. There is some hope of getting our house in order with a different government, but we have to wait 3 years before that is possible, and if the opposition can't get it right then having howled at the moon for 12-15 years, they never will.
The main reasons we're hit, is down to the collapse of the construction indsustry, and government levy policy. There is nothing there to get the economy moving again. There is some hope of getting our house in order with a different government, but we have to wait 3 years before that is possible, and if the opposition can't get it right then having howled at the moon for 12-15 years, they never will.
Exactly. If other countries pick up say next year under Libertas proposals it would restrict Irish workers going abroad.
Lionel Ritchie
27/05/2009, 5:55 PM
I agree, well put.
???What??? :D Read the statement again. It makes no sense whatsoever....
Attacking other parties is to campaigning, as eating and drinking
I think I can fathom the metaphor he attempted to employ but seriously like ..."well put" ?!?!
;)
I thought bald Student was being sarcastic
mypost
27/05/2009, 7:19 PM
Exactly. If other countries pick up say next year under Libertas proposals it would restrict Irish workers going abroad.
When the 10 EU countries were admitted in 2004, only Ireland and the UK opened their doors to anyone who wanted to come in. There were some benefits, but it brought new racism and integration challenges. Most countries governments put restrictions on those coming across their borders, some up to 7 years after 2004. They were taken by established parties in power. Libertas are neither. It seems to me, another stick to beat them with.
Now, almost every EU country is in recession, so emigration of Irish workers hasn't drastically increased despite the unemployment problems here.
FF aren't sinister, it's clear as day they are out to serve themselves and a small cabal of special interests.
And that isn't sinister?? :confused:
There were some benefits, but it brought new racism and integration challenges. Most countries governments put restrictions on those coming across their borders, some up to 7 years after 2004.
Racism is being stoked up though, by parties using that card in elections. Like, eh, Libertas for example. So Libertas solution is to implement restrictions just as everyone else is getting ready to lift them?
Now, almost every EU country is in recession, so emigration of Irish workers hasn't drastically increased despite the unemployment problems here.
Now, but the point is we're likely to lag in terms of upturn, and Libertas policy is to restrict the options for irish people to go abroad at work. That's after effectively forcing emigrants back here, because of their policy of not allowing immigrants to get benefits.
I got a Libertas leaflet and found it pretty laughable. 3/4 of it was covered with attacks on other parties, before a wee bit about about themselves.
Well I have had FG and Labour at my door and for 99% of the time they just attacked FF. I asked them if they had any positive suggestions and within 2 seconds they had resorted back to passing negative comments.
Way too much moaning and petty point scoring for my liking.
bennocelt
28/05/2009, 10:04 AM
Watched V Browne last night - were doing my constituency (wonder can Westmeath now apply to take part in the Ulster Hurling champs - reckon we might have a chance!!!!)
The SF and Independents came across very well - the FG was a joke and treated as such and Pat the cope refused to go on the show.
Funny to see Browne have his little attack on the shinners - jesus the bile was running out of him
If ever there was a reason to vote against Lisbon it was shown by the labour one - who when asked why she would vote for the treaty even though no concrete changes were put into it - she basically said that beacasue FF said it was so, so she would trust what the government would say - man labour are funny!!!!!
Dodge
28/05/2009, 10:36 AM
Well I have had FG and Labour at my door and for 99% of the time they just attacked FF. I asked them if they had any positive suggestions and within 2 seconds they had resorted back to passing negative comments.
Way too much moaning and petty point scoring for my liking.
Should people really vote on the "better the devil you know" arguement?
John83
28/05/2009, 12:00 PM
I thought bald Student was being sarcastic
I had a little double-take when I read it, but then I read mypost's drivel again, and concluded the same thing.
mypost
28/05/2009, 1:37 PM
If ever there was a reason to vote against Lisbon it was shown by the labour one - who when asked why she would vote for the treaty even though no concrete changes were put into it - she basically said that beacasue FF said it was so, so she would trust what the government would say - man labour are funny!!!!!
It's not a reason, it's another reason.
If the whole country trusted the government now, "because FF said it was so" we'd look 10 times the laughing stock we currently are.
Should people really vote on the "better the devil you know" arguement?
I'm a turd sandwich man myself. Any one voting for douche bag?
mypost
28/05/2009, 2:00 PM
So Libertas solution is to implement restrictions just as everyone else is getting ready to lift them? Now, but the point is we're likely to lag in terms of upturn, and Libertas policy is to restrict the options for irish people to go abroad at work. That's after effectively forcing emigrants back here, because of their policy of not allowing immigrants to get benefits.
Everyone's in the same boat in the recession and everyone will recover at more or less the same time.
John83
28/05/2009, 2:18 PM
Everyone's in the same boat in the recession and everyone will recover at more or less the same time.
Ha! :)
OneRedArmy
28/05/2009, 2:46 PM
Everyone's in the same boat in the recession and everyone will recover at more or less the same time.
You do realise that's completely at odds with what you've said on this and other threads over the last 12 months?
If every economy moves together (ridiculous assertion btw. Compare growth rates over the last decade between EU nations) then surely
1) labour borders are irrelevant and superfluous
2) The EU is an Optimal Currency Area and the Euro should be widened
You're arguing for stronger integration...
mypost
28/05/2009, 7:48 PM
I've always argued pro-Eurozone, as it's not integration. It's merely changing a few notes and coins, which benefits every citizen, not only politicians.
When the Irish economy was strong, the UK economy was strong as well. When the new EU countries came in, their economies improved at the same time with each other. Now the European economy is what it is, it's like a domino effect on everyone else.
I've always argued pro-Eurozone, as it's not integration. It's merely changing a few notes and coins, which benefits every citizen, not only politicians.
When the Irish economy was strong, the UK economy was strong as well. When the new EU countries came in, their economies improved at the same time with each other. Now the European economy is what it is, it's like a domino effect on everyone else.
Wowser :eek:
Should people really vote on the "better the devil you know" arguement?
Im not saying that. My comments related to the fact that the user I quoted was suggesting that Libertas spent its time complaining about other parties and offered little or no positive ideas. I was merely saying that other parties at my doorstep were doing the same.
Yeah, that's fair enough. For the record I had a FF on my doorstop last night and his main argument was "can the others do any better"? I asked him for 3 specific things he'd do to help local schools. He couldn't give me one.
Latest IT Poll.
Dublin
Gay Mitchell (FG) 28%
Proinsias De Rossa (Lab) 25%
Mary Lou McDonald (SF) 11%
Eoin Ryan (FF) 9%
Joe Higgins (Soc) 9%
Deirdre De Búrca (Green) 6%
Patricia McKenna (Ind) 5%
Eibhlín Byrne (FF) 2%
Caroline Simons (Lib) 2%
North West
Pat The Cope Gallagher (FF) 20%
Marian Harkin (Ind) 19%
Jim Higgins (FG) 17%
Joe O'Reilly (FG) 10%
Pádraig MacLochlainn (SF) 9%
Declan Ganley (Lib) 9%
BohsPartisan
30/05/2009, 7:55 PM
Latest IT Poll.
Dublin
Gay Mitchell (FG) 28%
Proinsias De Rossa (Lab) 25%
Mary Lou McDonald (SF) 11%
Eoin Ryan (FF) 9%
Joe Higgins (Soc) 9%
Deirdre De Búrca (Green) 6%
Patricia McKenna (Ind) 5%
Eibhlín Byrne (FF) 2%
Caroline Simons (Lib) 2%
So the combined poll of the Left anti-Lisbon campaign outpolls Libertas by 23% I think that is quite significant in showing that at least in Dublin, it is these people, rather than Ganley's mob who had the ear of the electorate on the referendum. Great stuff for Joe here. Before the last Euro election he polled 2.5% and ended up with 5%. A small increase and doing well out of the transfers from Patricial McKenna and perhaps De Burca could see him through.
Aberdonian Stu
31/05/2009, 10:11 AM
I was discussing the Irish Times poll result yesterday with a couple of mates and Higgins may have found the perfect storm.
He always gets a respectable, if not necessarily competitive, number of votes from his core support.
Now throw into the mix that a whole heap of people don't want to vote FF this election but that there's always a reasonably large chunck of the same voter base that dislike SF and suddenly there's a whole lot of people looking for someone else to fill that gap.
A lot of people like that he's very up front about where he stands. I don't agree with his views but I've always had time for his direct and upfront manner. I still won't be voting for him I reckon he'll win over quite a few people that wouldn't normally consider him high up the ballot.
Interesting to note that combined De Burca and McKenna have 11 percent. Now I would expect to not wholly translate had just one candidate run because there are personality and support base issues but if it had translated to even 9 percent suddenly a Green would be in the hunt with transfers etc. It's a pity, albeit in no way a surprise, they couldn't have come to some kind of agreement as it would make matters a lot more interesting this day week (correct me if I'm wrong but I believe all of Europe does its counting Sunday).
Dodge
31/05/2009, 10:35 AM
I'd imagine tht McKenna's vote would affect Higgin's too. I know a couple of people voting for McKenna solely because she walked away from the FF/green coalition (in their eyes anyway). She'll definitely pick up her share of "protest" votes
bennocelt
31/05/2009, 12:52 PM
knob jockey gallagher to top poll in, man - have people no shame -can we annex donegal off to the brits please
Bald Student
01/06/2009, 10:43 PM
I'm voting on an anyone but Mary Lou basis. I was originally planning to vote for Eoin Ryan but I'm swapping to Higgins now. I think he has a good chance. He'll pick up most of McKenna's transfers. That could put him ahead of Mary Lou and he'll pick up most of her votes too if it does.
I'd imagine tht McKenna's vote would affect Higgin's too. I know a couple of people voting for McKenna solely because she walked away from the FF/green coalition (in their eyes anyway). She'll definitely pick up her share of "protest" votes
Was discussing this last week & she is most definitely a protest candidate. When the Greens were in government she couldn't get a protest vote so had to leave.
Higgins has a chance for sure as he will surely pick up transfers across the spectrum. I wouldn't share his policies but I would see him as honest so he will get something down the list. The threat of Mary Lou might get Eoin Ryan more transfers.
Apparently 1st count cannot be released until 9pm next Sunday. Its a euro-wide thing.
bennocelt
02/06/2009, 6:42 AM
I'm voting on an anyone but Mary Lou basis. I was originally planning to vote for Eoin Ryan but I'm swapping to Higgins now. I think he has a good chance. He'll pick up most of McKenna's transfers. That could put him ahead of Mary Lou and he'll pick up most of her votes too if it does.
a lot of bitterness there - jesus:eek:
to me - a vote for FF shows that one is an A1 moron
When the Greens were in government she couldn't get a protest vote so had to leave.
In fairness to her, she was on record as being opposed to entering Government, opposed the all new stance on an EU referendum, and stood and lost for the party leadership. Only the timing was really suspect about her decision to leave. Hopefully De Burca will be dead and buried (incinerated?) politically, regardless.
The threat of Mary Lou might get Eoin Ryan more transfers.
Interesting FG spin doctors undemonising SF over the weekend (whilst giving Kenny and FG the deniability). Must have been aimed at getting some FG transfers to really go ABFF, even if that means SF.
Interesting FG spin doctors undemonising SF over the weekend (whilst giving Kenny and FG the deniability). Must have been aimed at getting some FG transfers to really go ABFF, even if that means SF.
Its more of a moral quandry than anything else.
If Eoin Ryan holds onto his seat FF will talk that up saying they didn't lose any of their 4 seats. On the otherhand FG likely to use 1 of their 5 seats. If Ryan loses his seat a Shinner could get in. Hard to know which is the lesser of two evils. :o
Aberdonian Stu
02/06/2009, 9:44 AM
Interesting FG spin doctors undemonising SF over the weekend (whilst giving Kenny and FG the deniability). Must have been aimed at getting some FG transfers to really go ABFF, even if that means SF.
Heard that alright but it doesn't appear to be a unified front on that one. Alan Shatter was on The Week in Politics and seemed to not be fond of the idea.
Hard to know which is the lesser of two evils. :o
Ryan losing could bring down the Government - it's obvious where the ABFF vote should go. Hopefully it'll be Higgins rather than Mary Lou anyway that pips him (whatever about ideology, people respect Higgins so he could well be transfer friendly).
John83
02/06/2009, 10:14 AM
I'm voting on an anyone but Mary Lou basis. I was originally planning to vote for Eoin Ryan but I'm swapping to Higgins now. I think he has a good chance. He'll pick up most of McKenna's transfers. That could put him ahead of Mary Lou and he'll pick up most of her votes too if it does.
I've been thinking the same actually. Quite pleased that Higgins is saving me the irritation of having to vote FF.
a lot of bitterness there - jesus:eek:
to me - a vote for FF shows that one is an A1 moron
Some people feel the same about a vote for Sinn Féin.
Regardless, the situation is that De Rossa and Mitchell will get two of the Dublin seats, and so anyone voting tactically has to choose between Ryan, McDonald, Higgins, De Burca and McKenna, (oh, and Simmons, if you like) and weigh up the options for second and lower preferences.
bennocelt
02/06/2009, 10:59 AM
I've been thinking the same actually. Quite pleased that Higgins is saving me the irritation of having to vote FF.
Some people feel the same about a vote for Sinn Féin.
Regardless, the situation is that De Rossa and Mitchell will get two of the Dublin seats, and so anyone voting tactically has to choose between Ryan, McDonald, Higgins, De Burca and McKenna, (oh, and Simmons, if you like) and weigh up the options for second and lower preferences.
whatever your opinions on SF - saying that you would vote for FF so Sf wont get in is a joke
FF = a disgrace to this country
And i am amazed that they can still get 20% or so of the vite, and have poll toppers in Crowley and Gallagher - this country is a joke
Either way it would be great if Higgins gets it - and you know he just might.
But if SF get it I wont be losing any sleep
whatever your opinions on SF - saying that you would vote for FF so Sf wont get in is a joke
FF = a disgrace to this country
And i am amazed that they can still get 20% or so of the vite, and have poll toppers in Crowley and Gallagher - this country is a joke
It is a European election. MEPs have limited scope & many people would not want a Shinner representing us in the EU Parliament. We could elect every FF candidate to Europe & it won't have any impact on the Dail.
Bald Student
02/06/2009, 2:29 PM
whatever your opinions on SF - saying that you would vote for FF so Sf wont get in is a joke
FF = a disgrace to this country
And I am amazed that they can still get 20% or so of the vote, and have poll toppers in Crowley and Gallagher - this country is a joke
Either way it would be great if Higgins gets it - and you know he just might.
But if SF get it I wont be losing any sleep
You have to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of each candidate. I'm opposed to Fianna Fáil's economic policy but I'm in favour of their not blowing people up policy.
You have to weigh up the advantages and disadvantages of each candidate. I'm opposed to Fianna Fáil's economic policy but I'm in favour of their not blowing people up policy.
A cynical man might say one of the following things:
FF stood idly by while the Americans used Ireland as a base to facilitate bombing in the middle east
Key FF members were seriously implicated in a gun and bomb running scandal in the 1970's
FF exist as a result of a campaign of violence in the 1920's
None of these things make them terrorists or sympathisers and clearly FF are not the IRA, but we all need to note the not too recent past history.
Mary Lou appeals because of her clarity, coherence and efforts during the Lisbon campaign - she was extremely articulate and engaged. I have no time for SF normally - policies completely bonkers but she deserves credit for that effort
holidaysong
02/06/2009, 2:54 PM
FF are moving to the more pro-European ALDE grouping in the European Parliament after this election. This will have a lot to do with how I'll vote, as I'll only be giving preferences to candidates who belong to pro-Lisbon parties and those in the more pro-European groupings in the EP.
However, the local elections will be a different matter altogether...
FF are moving to the more pro-European ALDE grouping in the European Parliament after this election. This will have a lot to do with how I'll vote, as I'll only be giving preferences to candidates who belong to pro-Lisbon parties and those in the more pro-European groupings in the EP.
However, the local elections will be a different matter altogether...
FG and Labour already in very pro european groupings
holidaysong
02/06/2009, 3:17 PM
FG and Labour already in very pro european groupings
Yeah I know that. I'd be wasting my vote by just giving preferences to de Rossa and Mitchell though.. So for me it's going to have to be Ryan for the third Dublin seat.
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