Republic of Ireland V Bulgaria - Saturday, 28th March 2009 - World Cup 2010 Q

[shakermaker1982]

Given - 7
McShane - 3
O'Shea - 7
Dunne - 7
Kilbane - 3
McGeady - 4
Whelan - 3
Andrews - 6
Hunt - 4
Keane - 4
Doyle - 7

It was like watching Wimbledon in their pomp. We might as well drop Keane and bring in Doherty if we're just going to lump it long every time we have the ball.

The two full backs were twitchy all night long and did not look comfortable at all. Kilbane should have been replaced - his head was gone. Brilliant servant to the Irish team but he is not a left back. Whelan looks like a lost boy in the middle of the park.

The team looked out on their feet after the hour mark (not surprising since Bulgaria were playing keep ball for the majority of the match) and the Trap only brings a sub on in the 90th minute? Baffling. Fresh legs can change games. Why not take one of the strikers off and put on an extra central midfielder when it was clear for all to see that Bulgaria were dominating possession?

Ok we haven't got many top players but surely we can muster a better performance than that? What we lack in skill can be compensated by endeavour and aggression. Instead we looked flat and short of courage in terms of taking the game by the scruff of the neck after we took the lead.

[aidz1]

i was in the lower davin last night and didnt hear any boos at the end?

was there much of it???

[DmanDmythDledge]

i was in the lower davin last night and didnt hear any boos at the end?

was there much of it???
I was in the signing section and didn't hear anything but it was pretty clear on TV.

[cestlavie]

Sorry for the long post, but having watched the full game again in the cold light of day, i have the following comments to make:

Post match reaction/Traps system:
Yes a missed opportunity, yes a disappointing performance but we are still in a very good position and its all in our own hands. The reaction of some of the press and some "fans" is unreal. Trap has a system in place that is not entertaining to watch but generally its effective. We knew when we hired Trap that this is the style of football that we would end up playing. As long as it gets the results that is the main thing.

The team is very organised from a defensive point of view. Bulgaria had the lions share of possession last night but if you look at the game again the vast majority of it was in front of and across Irelands midfield/defence. When they approached the last quarter, they were closed down by the midfielders. Generally this worked quite well and most of Bulgarias effort were from distance. The problem was when Ireland won the ball back they were unable to retain it for very long. Its not a positive system and not very pretty but Traps viewpoint is not to concede first and foremost.

A positive of this system is the strength of a centre back pairing. The way the system operates should suit the type of game that Wed is likely to be. Unfortunately I feel Italy will have enough quality to break it down. But the way this system works, Ireland will never concede many goals.

S Reid/Possession:
The biggest flaw in the performance last night was the inability of our team to maintain possession. Our central midfielders lack the talent to take the ball down and play it around. Hopefully S Reid will return for the game in June. He is exactly the type of player we need. Someone who is comfortable in possession of the ball and can dictate the play.

Full backs performance:
Poor performance by both KK and McShane last night. Really offered little going forward and the midfield suffered as a result. McShane had a number of opportunities to put in a cross last night but declined each time. He also was fortunate with a number of back passes left short. KK has one of his worst games for Ireland last night but I expect the guy to atone for this on wed night. He is still in general a solid left back.

Hunt V Duff:
Hunt started the game on fire but unfortunately lacked the skill to take on his man and put in a cross. Duff brings a level of creativity to our game that unfortunately Hunt cant. He also faded quite badly as the game went on and a frustrating trait of Traps is his resistant to bring on a sub. I really feel fresh legs shouldve been utilised with about 15 mins to go, with Hunt the obvious replacement. I agree that the bench is quite limited and didnt offer many alternatives.

Disgraceful booing:
That t*at who has just posted a new thread about getting rid of Trap is obviously the type of individual who booed the team like night. Nothing short of fcuking disgraceful. What has become of this country. This team is getting the results, yes its not playing pretty football but this is a results business and at the end of the campaign if we're off to the WC, no one will complain. The level of booing at the end was disgraceful last night and is indicative of a section of the crowd that has appeared since we moved to croker that will hopefully disappear once we return to LR. We as supporters are there to support the team, alot of people doesnt seem to grasp this!! If you go to a game to be entertained then please stay away, go the cinema or a concert, please dont attend unless you are going to support your country. At this stage, i look forward to the support at away games more than home games.

S I/A Reid
People can make arguments for the inclusion of A Reid in the squad, i respect that. But please stop this talk of calling for S Ireland return. HE DOES NOT WANT TO PLAY FOR US ACCEPT IT -END OF!!!


Finally, when you see clowns calling for Traps head, it just makes my blood boil. If at the end of the campaign, we have failed to qualify then certain criticism will be justified. However with the results achieved already we are likely to finish this group with more points than the last campaign at least, so even in a worse case scenario that will be an improvement.

I agree with some of your points, by the way I couldnt even be bothered booing because the game was so mind numbing and really not good for the health. Booing is never constructive and sends out a bad impression but it is clear that their are alot of people who are getting frustrated and its not just because of last nights game. A few people on here act like they personally own the Irish football team, we already have enough idiots working for the FAI

[amaccann]

My prediction came true, though from the other way around - Ireland were the ones who went ahead and it was Bulgaria who battled to get the point & fair play to them for showing more will to win.

Where's our guile? Where's our desire? More importantly, where's the strategy to get the 3 points? How was this any better to the 89 minute defensive game we played against Israel all those moons ago when Kerr's conservative ways garnered scorn and an eventual sacking?

I don't mind bowing to a superior team so long as I felt we did our best. We didn't even do our worst, we just didn't look like wanting to play. Am I the only one who thinks we haven't played with any conviction since the era of McCarthy? I'm not so much angry as just flat disappointed.

[Fizzer]

I agree with some of your points, by the way I couldnt even be bothered booing because the game was so mind numbing and really not good for the health. Booing is never constructive and sends out a bad impression but it is clear that their are alot of people who are getting frustrated and its not just because of last nights game. A few people on here act like they personally own the Irish football team, we already have enough idiots working for the FAI

Cannot understand people booing their own team.Fcuking mindless idiots. I thought the crowd were great for the most part, trying to get behind the team despite the frustration that went with the performance. Guy beside me was hollering abuse at Robbie Keane every time he got the ball. Why do these people go to the games?? Can you call yourself a supporter if you consistently abuse the team captain?

[tetsujin1979]

Given - had 4 shots to save, and stopped them all. No chance with the OG

McShane - Poor in the first half, marginally better in the second. At best, he's third choice right full
Dunne - Sixth goal in Irish colours, and solid in central defence. Thought the ref got some of the decisions against him completely wrong
O'Shea - One poor tackle aside, solid enough. Despite the form of the full backs, I don't see this partnership being broken up anytime soon
Kilbane - You know what you're going to get with Kilbane. No lack of effort, but sometimes that's not enough. Links far better with Duff than Hiunt. Desperately unlucky with the OG.

McGeady - He's is never going to score for Ireland. Replay of his shot made it look better than from where I was sitting. Should have torn his opposing full back a new one. Can't decide if it's ability or the tactics that were against him
Andrews - Stepped up in the second half and actually started closing down players. Needs a better partner in central midfield
Whelan - Anonymous. Static. Had a great shot in the first half though
Hunt - It's been said enough times, he's far better as an impact sub.

Keane - Worked hard, but at 5"8, why was he expected to do with constant long balls?
Doyle - Worked harder than Keane, chased down defenders, but was feeding off scraps

Keogh - I can understand why he was brought on, but it should have been at least 15 minutes earlier

Having watched the game and the "we're better than this" comments, consider this. We've been away from home against "inferior" opposition that refused to give us space, let us play and completely shut down our playmakers - Liechtenstein, Macedonia (repeatedly), Austria, Poland. Consider again what we just did to Bulgaria. Welcome to the other side of the argument.

A few months ago, I made a comment that our players can't play several different tactical systems. We can't go from massed defence to free flowing attacking football in subsequent games. However, having spent an entire game shutting down Bulgaria, it's going to be easier to repeat the same tactics against Italy.

We may not agree with Trapattoni's tactics, but who here can honestly say that, if you knew we'd be unbeaten after 5 games, second in the group, 7 points clear of third and looking good for a play off, that you wouldn't want him appointed following 5 months of searching for a manager?

[shakermaker1982]

i was in the lower davin last night and didnt hear any boos at the end?

was there much of it???

I was in the lower Cusack and you could hear it all right. Out of 10 I'd say it was a 3/4. Half hearted really but still not something you want to hear.

[paul_oshea]

the points that I have made all along since Traps first game in qualifiers shone through again on saturday night. Mcgeady is not good enough, whelan is looking for a part in the remake of invisible man, he is not good enough and just sits back and does nothing. Hunt is at best an impact subandno where near the ability of duff, again saturday night showed how important duff is to us. im not so sure about kilbane being unlucky, watch it again and see how he opened his foot to tap/place it in rather than blast it out to the right, he clearly tried to place it, instead of hoofing it out to his right. I really dont know what he was at then.

biggest disappointment is the lack of intensity off the ball. We dont have the players to sit back and defend for a whole game. We need to have that "put em under pressure" tactic when we dont have the ball, because we cant match the technical ability of the continentals when holding the ball and spraying it about.

[Stuttgart88]

I reckon Trap did an audit of our capabilities at the start and thought we have good wide players, a couple of decent CBs and a couple of good forwards. The rest are makeweights.

He set up the team in a solid 4-4-2 to utilise this (hardly rocket science). However, once the wide players are injured (Duff out, McGeady clearly not fit) the whole plan is blown apart.

I was expecting subtle solutions to our problems, like 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-2-1 but as he sees that our 2 best attacking players are wide players none of this has been possible. He has stubbornly insisted on the original plan and nothing else.

I'd love to see, at least as an alternative, a narrower team with creativity in the middle, with the width coming from our full backs. That'd require proper full backs playing full back.

[magnumpi]

biggest disappointment is the lack of intensity off the ball. We dont have the players to sit back and defend for a whole game. We need to have that "put em under pressure" tactic when we dont have the ball, because we cant match the technical ability of the continentals when holding the ball and spraying it about.

couldn't agree more. i'm happy to watch catenaccio etc. as long as we get results, but sitting off teams doesn't work for us. if they could finish it would've been 3-1 to them. we didn't blockade them out, but invited them on to us, and they got in behind the back for two or three times at least.

they had a keeper who couldn't kick and the few times we did pressure them they made basic errors. really disappointed we didn't press them more. as you say, we don't have the technical ability to pull off traps game plan against average/good sides, and then only barely scrape past the poor sides.

[Stuttgart88]

yeah, there was no tempo or intensity whatsoever, on or off the ball. Lack of technique was badly exposed throughout. No fluency either.

[Scram]

We are guilty of misplaced optimism based on Trapatonni's record at club level and a failure to see that the Emperor really is bo!lock naked. 3 wins out of 10.

Total failure to control any period of a game against a not very good Bulgaria side.

A revamp of midfield desperately needed if we have any chance of qualifying (we don't!). Andy Reid and Carlsley not even being considered is preposterous (especially as they are totally different players so one or the other should fit the managers inexplicable policies)

Trapatonni has not put in the effort required to go and see players and ENSURE that our squad potential is maximised.

We may get lucky against Italy, that is all we can hope for.

[Closed Account 2]

I was on a night train in North Africa at the time so have only just watched the match now.

I thought Robbie Keane, Given and Dunne did ok, but a wave of averageness swept through the whole team. 1-1 against the 2nd strongest team in the group is not a bad result under normal circumstances, and there were a few shocks for home teams that night (Belgium lost to an ever improving Bosnia, Morocco lost to Gabon, Romania lost to a good young Serbian team). But in the cold light of day Bulgaria were there to be dispatched, we may have had injury problems but they had almost all of their proven world class attacking players out (Berbatov, Bozhinov, Martin Petrov). We will be lucky to get a draw out in Sofia when we play them.

[elroy]

I was on a night train in North Africa at the time so have only just watched the match now.

We will be lucky to get a draw out in Sofia when we play them.

The way Trap sets the team out, it may well suit us more when we play away. We cant afford to lose there. If we get a draw there, then we should be favourite for second place.

It would make a world of difference to us if S Reid was fit and available for the game. It was expected to be out for upto 7 months when he got injured in Oct, cant seem to find any recent updates but heres hoping.

[jmurphyc]

I'd love to see, at least as an alternative, a narrower team with creativity in the middle, with the width coming from our full backs. That'd require proper full backs playing full back.

I agree with that. The thing is that in classical "catenaccio" teams (going on what I've heard, seeing as I wasn't born in the heady days of when these teams existed) the full backs were essential to the system. Whilst they sat back for most of the game and allowed pressure onto them, the full backs were used to break forward at pace to supplement the attack on the counter.

Considering that we almost always have the two centre backs and the two central midfielders behind the ball, this should allow at least one of the full backs to break forward. If we're to score more goals this is IMO essential. There are just too many players not willing/allowed to join the attack. We need to play better attacking full backs, and I'm sure that there are better ones out there than Kilbane and McShane. The fact that we also have very little pace really does make playing a catenaccio style of football very difficult. The annoying thing is though that there may be no other realistic solution.

[shakermaker1982]

Given that there'll probably be no changes to the squad, I'd select Gibson over Whelan to partner Andrews and hope to jaysus he plays as well as he can. Just drill in to him to look for it, find men, keep it moving...

A far more balanced XI for Wednesday would be:

Shay
Foley-Dunne-O'Shea-Delaney
McGeady-Gibson-Andrews-Kilbane
Keane--Doyle

You can point to the full backs' lack of experience all you like but nothing could be worse than the two that played on Saturday. Thse two are at least naturals in the position, bringing essential balance, & each can get forward when appropriate.

I'd play KK LHM because Hunt was basically a poor man's Kilbane last night, and Kilbane is only a poor man's Tony Galvin.

I'd go along with that team as well. I'd ask Keane to drop into midfield every time we didn't have the ball (so 80% of the match) and pray Italy have an off day. Bring on Hunt for Kilbane with twenty minutes to go and replace Doyle when he looks like he's going to throw up after all the pressing he'd need to do.

McShane and Kilbane are accidents waiting to happen once again if they are asked to play at RB and LB respectively. I had my hands over my eyes every time a defender ran at them in the penalty box - I was sure they'd give a penalty away with 15 minutes to go.

[Tipp Townie]

We were missing Finnan, Steven Reid, Damien Duff (and Steven Ireland?)

I'm only at page 16 or 17 at the moment so someone might have responded to this already, but i think we need to stop referring to both Steven Reid and Stephen Ireland as players that we are "missing".

For different reasons its highly unlikely either will appear in this qualifying campaign, certainly not in the return match in Sofia in June. Therefore its totally irrelevant that they were not on the pitch on saturday. No point talking theoritically about how strong we could be, better off sorting out how strong we are with the players available.

I'll agree that it IS a big deal to be missing Finnan and Duff.

[Jicked]

So we weren't missing Steven Reid, but Bulgaria were missing Martin Petrov?

[Tipp Townie]

Whelan & Andrews did bits & pieces well at times - for about 10 effing minutes! The other 80 they were outplayed..

It would, of course, take a mad man not to agree that centre mid is our major problem.

However, there have been a few people on here remarking about how Petrov ran the midfield and gave the lads a lesson in midfield play.

Even leaving aside any Celtic-bias, isn't this what we'd expect? Petrov is a class midfielder, whereas i'm not sure even Keith or Glenn would claim to be so?! Petrov dominated the midfield?... well so he should. If the lads had been able to shut him down then it would have been a top effort. They didn't- i'm not suprised.

[Tipp Townie]

So we weren't missing Steven Reid, but Bulgaria were missing Martin Petrov?

Yep fair enough on that count of course, i'm not having a specific pop at you Jicked, don't get your knickers in a twist.

I don't know how long M.Petrov is out for- but someone has remarked that he may be back for the June match? If so then his absence is of far more relevance to Bulgaira than Steven Reid's to us. Reid is crocked and has been for ages. We talk about how much we need him and how much difference he'd make - i agree in principle, but do we even know? He's not had a run in the internation team since WC 2002, and that wasn't even much of a run.

So i'd love to see him back in the fold, but for now he might aswell not exist as far as i'm concerned, because he has virtually no relevance to this qualifying campaign.

[Scram]

There are only 2 players missing BECAUSE of Trapatonni; Andy Reid and Lee Carsley.

Andy O'Brien and Stephen Ireland have said THEY do not want to play. Others ARE injured.

It is preposterous that Andy Reid and Lee Carsley are missing because Trappa CHOOSES not to include them. I would have both on the pitch before the 4 midfielders currently available, and I believe a min. 90% of supporters (and all RTE pundits!) would agree.

Trappa is exhibiting characteristics of a stubborn old goat. He's no better than Stan with a a bit of organisational and defensive acumen.

[Closed Account 2]

I still think we need to have more shots from distance. I can remember the good old days when the likes of Kavanagh, Hartey, Kennedy, Holland and even Kinsella having a dig from distance.

Even going way back we had the likes of Sheridan, Irwin and Houghton who could lash in raspers from some distance. In the squad now with the likes of Whelan, Kilbane and even Robbie Keane (remember his goal in summer 2004 vs the Dutch in Amsterdam?) we have the ability to put the keeper under pressure. If we are 1-0 up at home or say 0-0 away I think we should adopt shooting from range a lot more.

I just get so frustrated with the poxy build up play were we seem to incessantly flick the ball about between full backs and wingers and never really get any momentum behind us. We need to learn to mix it up in terms of style and play to our strengths. We don't have players with a plethora of world class skill, but we do have a solid defensive spine (Given, Dunne, Andrews or Whelan), a degree of pace on the flanks (Duff, McGeady, Stephen Hunt) and the ability to hurt teams with Doyle and Keane.

I think what we are really missing is a dominant vocal midfielder. Andy Townsend gets a lot of grief on this forum, but that is exactly the sort of player we need now. A cool head, but a born leader, a player who could drive the team forward and had the ability to really make an impression on the park.

Looking back at those 1990-1994 squads it was some talent we had there. The likes of Houghton, Townsend, Aldridge, McGrath, Sheridan, Whelan (Ronnie), Quinn, Irwin... It's difficult not to pine for those days. I still say my biggest regret in life was not going to 1994 World Cup. I'd saved up all my money for 5 years and had just about enough for flights, accomadation and transport, but the poxy airlines wouldn't let me fly as an unaccompanied minor!

[OwlsFan]

There are only 2 players missing BECAUSE of Trapatonni; Andy Reid and Lee Carsley.

It is preposterous that Andy Reid and Lee Carsley are missing because Trappa CHOOSES not to include them. I would have both on the pitch before the 4 midfielders currently available, and I believe a min. 90% of supporters (and all RTE pundits!) would agree.

So you want a Championship has been and a guy not playing regularly in the Premiership over two Premiership regulars? I don't disagree there is an argument for them being in the Panel but they wouldn't make much of a difference. The real problems are at full back to be honest.

As for the Panel, they have slated every manager since Johnny Giles. The same muppets who wanted to hire Paul Jewell (sacked this year by Derby as the team headed towards the oblivion of the 1st division). Like I would listen to them!!

[tetsujin1979]

There are only 2 players missing BECAUSE of Trapatonni; Andy Reid and Lee Carsley.
Ridiculous statement
What about Rory Delap? Chris McCann? Mark Kennedy? Clinton Morrison? Alan Quinn? Stephen Quinn? Stephen Ward? Willo Flood? Are they all missing because of him too?

[Pike B]

Dreadful dreadful Irish performance. We have never played so bad and not lost. Maybe Trap is a lucky manager.

[The Fly]

Ridiculous statement
What about Rory Delap? Chris McCann? Mark Kennedy? Clinton Morrison? Alan Quinn? Stephen Quinn? Stephen Ward? Willo Flood? Are they all missing because of him too?

No..............they are 'missing' because they are not good enough.

[mypost]

Ridiculous statement
What about Rory Delap? Chris McCann? Mark Kennedy? Clinton Morrison? Alan Quinn? Stephen Quinn? Stephen Ward? Willo Flood?

Suggesting that any of those should be playing is indeed a ridiculous statement.

[tetsujin1979]

No..............they are 'missing' because they are not good enough.Ward, McCann, Stephen Quinn, and Kennedy are all playing at the same level as Carsley (upper Championship). Garvan, Quinn and McCann have all scored more than Carsley. Garvan stood out in midfield for the U-21's VS Spain on Friday, kept possession well, smart passes and wasn't afraid to have a shot himself.


Suggesting that any of those should be playing is indeed a ridiculous statement.Where did I say they should be playing?

[The Fly]

Ward, McCann, Stephen Quinn, and Kennedy are all playing at the same level as Carsley (upper Championship). Garvan, Quinn and McCann have all scored more than Carsley. Garvan stood out in midfield for the U-21's VS Spain on Friday, kept possession well, smart passes and wasn't afraid to have a shot himself.


Carsley is no longer good enough, in my opinion. Garvan, whilst undoubtedly promising, has been judged by Trapattoni not to be ready at this stage. I accept that decision. One thing I will add about players' performances for the U-21's is that they should be taken with a pinch of salt. I've lost count of the amount of players who have looked good at U-21 level only to disappoint at senior level. I'm not saying that this applies to Garvan in particular but more as a rule in general.

The players listed above, just highlight for me the current predicament with the Irish side in regards to squad depth which puts Trapattoni's reign so far in a very favourable light.

[geysir]

We are using up 2 at CM to do a one man Carsley shift and they can't even do that properly.
It was a missed opportunity for Bulgaria.
It's hard to recall a worse Ireland performance at home, at least it's there with the worst.
The memory bin is getting full.

[DmanDmythDledge]

So you want a Championship has been and a guy not playing regularly in the Premiership over two Premiership regulars? I don't disagree there is an argument for them being in the Panel but they wouldn't make much of a difference.
How is Andy Reid not playing regularly? Since Nov 8 he has started 15/22 matches for Sunderland. Regardless, your logic is completely flawed and just shows your blind faith in Trap.


Garvan, whilst undoubtedly promising, has been judged by Trapattoni not to be ready at this stage. I accpet that decision.
He has not been judged by Trap at all so don't know where you get that idea from.

[Closed Account 2]

We have a lot of (average)-(slightly above average) players particularly in midfield, I just wish a few more of these had a bit of drive about them. For instance, as much as I admire the man, Kav was an average player, but he had the drive and tenacity to play above himself and impose himself on a game.

We basically need more players who really want to put on the shirt and play with their hearts. If you look at all of the teams who have punched above their weight in the last few years of international football (Ivory Coast, Croatia, Russia, Paraguay) they tend to have 1-2 world class players and a neucleus of 3-4 key players who are the real engine men, these players try their absolute hardest and carry the team. Ivory Coast have Zakora (far better for them than Spurs) and Romaric, Croatia have Kovac, Simic, Corluka, Russia have Zyrianov, Denisov*, Anyukov, Paraguay have Auri Torres, Caniza and Caceres. It's players like this which we need in our team, its the only way to break the cycle of timidity we currently exhibit.

* - Denisov had issues pre Euro 2008, but these have since been resolved.

[Noelys Guitar]

Robbie Keane has to come back into midfield for the Italy game. A 4-4-1-1. With McShane and Kilbane as fullbacks Given is going to hoof the ball up the pitch. If Keane drops back into midfield Given should be able to pass the ball to Dunne and O'Shea. Allowing them to look for the dropping back Keane or McGeady. We can't go 90 mins + against the Italians with just one outlet (McGeady. Hunt can't hold onto the ball). This brings Keane into the game. And allows him to break forward from deep. He played this role for Spurs last week and it worked well.

[tricky_colour]

I thought we defended well in the second half, we looked very organised apart from one fatal moment were a runner from midfield was not picked up, albeit from a well worked move, perhaps due to tired legs or a lapse of concentration, even then the goal was a bit of a fluke. We certainly looked better than the first half, but the irony is they didn't score in the first half but did in the second - that's football I guess.

[NeilMcD]

How is Andy Reid not playing regularly? Since Nov 8 he has started 15/22 matches for Sunderland. Regardless, your logic is completely flawed and just shows your blind faith in Trap.


He has not been judged by Trap at all so don't know where you get that idea from.

Well Garvan did play against Forest so he has seen him play and has judged him.

[DmanDmythDledge]

Well Garvan did play against Forest so he has seen him play and has judged him.
Are you talking about the game last month? Garvan came on as a sub in the 90th minute. One game would not be enough to make a judgement of a player either.

[NeilMcD]

Are you talking about the game last month? Garvan came on as a sub in the 90th minute. One game would not be enough to make a judgement of a player either.

he also had him in training for that game and it was not last month and he did not come in the 90th minute. I am talking about the B International. He also had him in Portugal I think.

[DmanDmythDledge]

I presume he didn't play at LB?
http://www.rte.ie/sport/soccer/2008/1009/ireland_forest.html

Wouldn't be surprised though.

[NeilMcD]

No he didnt. He came on and play midfield on the left and then in the centre. Andrews looked the best playler on the pitch that night in my opinion.

[paul_oshea]

funny coming back from ireland i was sitting beside a girl on the plane who is a season ticket holder at ipswich and she was saying (well a lot of things) that garvan wasn't getting his game recently at ipswich? She also said magilton was a tw@t. :D

[tricky_colour]

Well Garvan did play against Forest so he has seen him play and has judged him.

To be honest Forest would make any player look good, the Clough era is long gone.

[Scram]

So you want a Championship has been and a guy not playing regularly in the Premiership over two Premiership regulars? I don't disagree there is an argument for them being in the Panel but they wouldn't make much of a difference. The real problems are at full back to be honest.

As for the Panel, they have slated every manager since Johnny Giles. The same muppets who wanted to hire Paul Jewell (sacked this year by Derby as the team headed towards the oblivion of the 1st division). Like I would listen to them!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
There are only 2 players missing BECAUSE of Trapatonni; Andy Reid and Lee Carsley.

It is preposterous that Andy Reid and Lee Carsley are missing because Trappa CHOOSES not to include them. I would have both on the pitch before the 4 midfielders currently available, and I believe a min. 90% of supporters (and all RTE pundits!) would agree.

So you want a Championship has been and a guy not playing regularly in the Premiership over two Premiership regulars? I don't disagree there is an argument for them being in the Panel but they wouldn't make much of a difference. The real problems are at full back to be honest.

Compared to WHAT ?!!! Stephen "headless chicken" Hunt who couldn't hold up a ball if he had an adhesive strip on his boots?

You surely cannot be arguing that Andy Reid could not take the place over any of the current four :confused:

And, The Panel have given Trappatoni every opportunity but teh honeymoon is clearly over. If you can't see that the "performance" against Bulgaria was one of our worst ever, a throw back to the worst of Jack Charlton and a change is desparately needed in the middle, then you cannot see much.

"The real problems are at full back" :confused: We let one goal in, an unlucky deflection. The game is controlled in the midlle of the pitch. We had NO control, nothing whatsoever to do with the full back position. Having said that, there is a problem in finding a partner to Dunne, but it certainly is not our main problem.

[smasher]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scram
There are only 2 players missing BECAUSE of Trapatonni; Andy Reid and Lee Carsley.

It is preposterous that Andy Reid and Lee Carsley are missing because Trappa CHOOSES not to include them. I would have both on the pitch before the 4 midfielders currently available, and I believe a min. 90% of supporters (and all RTE pundits!) would agree.

So you want a Championship has been and a guy not playing regularly in the Premiership over two Premiership regulars? I don't disagree there is an argument for them being in the Panel but they wouldn't make much of a difference. The real problems are at full back to be honest.

Compared to WHAT ?!!! Stephen "headless chicken" Hunt who couldn't hold up a ball if he had an adhesive strip on his boots?

You surely cannot be arguing that Andy Reid could not take the place over any of the current four :confused:

And, The Panel have given Trappatoni every opportunity but teh honeymoon is clearly over. If you can't see that the "performance" against Bulgaria was one of our worst ever, a throw back to the worst of Jack Charlton and a change is desparately needed in the middle, then you cannot see much.

"The real problems are at full back" :confused: We let one goal in, an unlucky deflection. The game is controlled in the midlle of the pitch. We had NO control, nothing whatsoever to do with the full back position. Having said that, there is a problem in finding a partner to Dunne, but it certainly is not our main problem.

Despite his flaws, Stephen Hunt made our goal and also initiated the move which the ineffective Mcgeady should have put away
Anybody who cites the panel for back up to their argument is already on the 'backfoot'.

[jmurphyc]

"The real problems are at full back" :confused: We let one goal in, an unlucky deflection. The game is controlled in the midlle of the pitch. We had NO control, nothing whatsoever to do with the full back position. Having said that, there is a problem in finding a partner to Dunne, but it certainly is not our main problem.

There is obviously a serious problem in central midfield, but I think you're seriously downplaying the importance of full back. A lot of teams these days play with deep lying central midfielders who rarely support the attack, and consequently have full backs doing this job instead. Letting one goal in doesn't mean that the full backs did ok as the job of a full back is not soley to defend. With such a defensively set up team we're crying out for more attacking impetus from this area.

[Stuttgart88]

"The real problems are at full back" :confused: We let one goal in, an unlucky deflection. The game is controlled in the midlle of the pitch. We had NO control, nothing whatsoever to do with the full back position. Having said that, there is a problem in finding a partner to Dunne, but it certainly is not our main problem.
O'Shea's partnership with Dunne was a real positive on Saturday I thought.

The full back failings were less in their defensive capabilities (though KK had a poor night in that regard) it's more relating to their use of the ball which was atrocious.

Also, there were a number of times when McGeady got the ball and McShane, in fairness, supported him. But anyone could see he didn't really want it and the Bulgarians knew he wasn't worth paying attention to, leaving McGeady facing two men.

[Scram]

O'Shea's partnership with Dunne was a real positive on Saturday I thought.

The full back failings were less in their defensive capabilities (though KK had a poor night in that regard) it's more relating to their use of the ball which was atrocious.

Also, there were a number of times when McGeady got the ball and McShane, in fairness, supported him. But anyone could see he didn't really want it and the Bulgarians knew he wasn't worth paying attention to, leaving McGeady facing two men.

Yes, but "ideally!", O'Shea is in his better position either left or right and we have an other option for center.

Andy O'Brien performed very well 95% beside Dunne and I would ask him back in a heartbeat. The 5% of the time mistakes are made are usually when he has got out of position and is tracking back. He is right that the criticism of him over Cyprus was way over the top.

McShane really needs to be dropped to the bench. Kilbane had a bad night and is not the long term future at left back, but should remain there until one is found.

Carlsley in front of the defense woudl be an improvement. And Andy reid over Hunt any day. I'm a fan of Andrews over Whelan. So I'd have MGeady Carlsley, Andrews, and Andy Reid (ALL AVAILABLE!)

ps. We have no "leader" in midfield and Carsley could fill that role.

[irishultra]

We have a lot of (average)-(slightly above average) players particularly in midfield, I just wish a few more of these had a bit of drive about them. For instance, as much as I admire the man, Kav was an average player, but he had the drive and tenacity to play above himself and impose himself on a game.

We basically need more players who really want to put on the shirt and play with their hearts. If you look at all of the teams who have punched above their weight in the last few years of international football (Ivory Coast, Croatia, Russia, Paraguay) they tend to have 1-2 world class players and a neucleus of 3-4 key players who are the real engine men, these players try their absolute hardest and carry the team. Ivory Coast have Zakora (far better for them than Spurs) and Romaric, Croatia have Kovac, Simic, Corluka, Russia have Zyrianov, Denisov*, Anyukov, Paraguay have Auri Torres, Caniza and Caceres. It's players like this which we need in our team, its the only way to break the cycle of timidity we currently exhibit.

* - Denisov had issues pre Euro 2008, but these have since been resolved.

great post.

[jmurphyc]

Andy O'Brien performed very well 95% beside Dunne and I would ask him back in a heartbeat. The 5% of the time mistakes are made are usually when he has got out of position and is tracking back. He is right that the criticism of him over Cyprus was way over the top.

O'Brien was IMO quite effective for us generally, but that was beside Cunningham who he struck up a good partnership with. He never really got much playing time with Dunne and putting them together now (even if he could be persuaded to come back) would be a risk. O'Shea has done well alongside Dunne so there's no point in taking that risk when it wouldn't change us that much.


Carlsley in front of the defense woudl be an improvement. And Andy reid over Hunt any day. I'm a fan of Andrews over Whelan. So I'd have MGeady Carlsley, Andrews, and Andy Reid (ALL AVAILABLE!)

ps. We have no "leader" in midfield and Carsley could fill that role.

If Andy Reid were to be brought back (and I think he should) it should be in the centre. That said, I agree that he is a far better option to start than Hunt. However, he's sadly highly unlikely to come back with Trap in charge. Carsley has from what I've heard been playing poorly and considering that it was probably time to explore new options, as Trap did. His passing is woeful and he is no way a proper leader; he seems quite introverted on the pitch.

[Wolfie]

Yeah, I watched Georgia on TV and thought it was better than most people thought. I was in Dublin yesterday though and my God I could barely believe my eyes. I'm one of the more positive people around here but that was garbage yesterday. Nobody wanted the ball and nobody could even do the basics - you know, stuff like passing the bloody ball.

McShane may be able to stop people playing football but he is not up to being a full back at that level. Did anyone notice that their full backs played a lot of the game deep in our half? Our full backs couldn't develop a photograph let alone develop play. O'Shea was culpable too, but did a midfielder ever show for him? Once even?

Whelan & Andrews did bits & pieces well at times - for about 10 effing minutes! The other 80 they were outplayed.

Hunt has no finesse whatsoever. No touch, no awareness.

McGeady didn't look fit. No blame to the front two - the service was appalling. It was like Italia 90 all over again - Bonner to Quinn / Given to Doyle.

Totally bankrupt performance. I'm not sure whether it's tactics or lack of ability but I think it's a bit of both. I'd say McShane is the most talentless full back playing anywhere in Europe last night. Full backs are an essential part of a team's attacking balance and both of ours were awful.

Coleman & Moloney did a far better job on Friday than our 2 last night and Eddie Nolan looked like he was happy on the ball, unlike O'Shea.

The group still looks manageable wrt 2nd place but we need a couple of good away results. With performances like last night it won't happen.

In agreement on the full-backs issue. The Full-back slots have been a big concern to me for a good while now.

McShane is 100% commitment - but he is woefully lacking in ability. Commitment to the cause and effort is admirable and may even afford you the mantle of "legend" if you stick around long enough - but it isn't enough in itself.

You will be found out at this level - often sooner rather than later in qualifiers.

Having viewed both games from the Davin Stand - I actually thought Kilbane and McShane turned in even worse performances against Cyprus!!

Its definitely a toxic mix of limited ability and cautious tactics at the moment.

I understand that Trapp's tactics should come as no surprise and many of us predicted times of frustration and doubt as the campaign unfolded.

When you adopt these tactics, you have to be RUTHLESS IN FRONT OF GOAL. The Italians are past masters at this.

It may be only be one clear cut chance in a half and you have to make sure you take it when it comes your way.

McGeady had a golden opportunity to kill off Bulgaria just before we conceded. Once he missed - I knew we'd blown it and it would cost us.