Republic of Ireland V Bulgaria - Saturday, 28th March 2009 - World Cup 2010 Q

[tetsujin1979]

McShane at centre back could be interesting....played well against the Czech's many moons ago but he must be a little rusty since being recalled by Sunderland. When was the last time he even played centre back for club/country?
Think it was one of the cup games for Hull before Christmas

[Hibernian]

It would be risky, no two ways about it.

I'd resist the temptation to tamper with the Dunne / O'Shea partnership. Its not perfection by any stretch but if it aint broke don't fix it!!!

100% agree I think there are other parts of the first 11 that i be more concerned about anyway as I think this partnership is solid enough

[Hibernian]

I'm sticking with my 4 point prediction. I've got us ending up on 22 points. Optimistic/deluded?

Bulgaria's run in looks like this:

Republic of Ireland - Bulgaria
Bulgaria - Cyprus
Bulgaria - Republic of Ireland
Bulgaria - Montenegro
Italy - Bulgaria
Cyprus - Bulgaria
Bulgaria - Georgia

I think ireland are more then capable of getting 22 points hopefully we will end up with 28 points and that the attitude that the Irish team should have..

One thing I hope to see Saturday night is a postive response fromt he fans and get behind the team..

Bit of self belief can go long way.

[Stuttgart88]

McShane/Kelly or Foley at RB?Anyone think Damien Delaney could be in with a shout? AFAIK he's started there for QPR recently. He impressed at left back in the first 2 games under Trap and I'd imagine he's seen as cover across the whole back 4. He has the advantage of age & experience over Foley, as well as a physical advantage, with Foley clearly being the more naturally attacking player.

[tetsujin1979]

With Bulgaria potentially running low on strikers, an attacking right full mightn't be the worst thing in the world...

[Noelys Guitar]

Anyone think Damien Delaney could be in with a shout? AFAIK he's started there for QPR recently. He impressed at left back in the first 2 games under Trap and I'd imagine he's seen as cover across the whole back 4. He has the advantage of age & experience over Foley, as well as a physical advantage, with Foley clearly being the more naturally attacking player.

I was surprised Trap stopped picking Delaney for the starting 11. He looked international class in the first two games under Trap. I would have have gone with Delaney over Kilbane to be honest.

[eirebhoy]

I hope I am wrong but I don't have the same confidence in Trap as some people. Our luck has to run out at some point.
How Bulgaria would love to have Given, Dunne, O'Shea, McGeady, Duff, Keane or Doyle right now. I'm sure they'd take any of our centre halves actually considering their first choice plays in English League 1 and is unavailable for this game.


Think it was one of the cup games for Hull before Christmas
Against Newcastle. And he played there in the replay against Newcastle in his last game for Hull in January. They kept clean sheets in both games.

My first choice defence would be to play Foley at right back. If he's going to play McShane then I want it to be at centre half. He's just not a right back and I'd definitely play Kelly in that position before McShane.

[Oink]

i wouldnt have mcshane on my sunday league team!!

You seem to overestimate both McShane and Kilbanes ability to influence the result and give little credit to the fact they are professional players who play in arguably the best league in the world.

True they are prone to mistakes but generally, and a point most valid in international matches, one or 2 so called "weak players" having a bad game will only impact the result if the rest of the team are not a strong unit and are playing poorly.... but the same will also hold true if we are playing well. They do play football at a high standard for a living and are experienced enough.

Bulgaria and a weak side and even weaker with their current situation of injury and coaching staff. They will only be a threat if we do not play well and the crowd get on the teams back...... I cannot see this happening... so 2-0 Ireland and happy days!

[BigmanCas]

I was surprised Trap stopped picking Delaney for the starting 11. He looked international class in the first two games under Trap. I would have have gone with Delaney over Kilbane to be honest.

Delaney has never looked international class. Come on...!! He is a left back at QPR. Trapp looked at him. He looked slow and as a result will never really make it I feel. On the subject of Kilbane. He has nearly 100 caps and has NEVER let his country down - Fact. You'd have Delaney over Kilbane - Ha!

[Supreme feet]

I thought Delaney looked solid when he played. Made one great covering tackle against Serbia... However, end-of-season friendlies can be deceptive. QPR fans clearly don't rate him anyway.

QPR fans on Delaney: http://www.qprdot.org/viewtopic.php?t=35142

and while I'm at it, on Miller: http://www.qprdot.org/viewtopic.php?t=35592

Not nice reading, but I'm not surprised.

[stojkovic]

How Bulgaria would love to have Given, Dunne, O'Shea, McGeady, Duff, Keane or Doyle right now. I'm sure they'd take any of our centre halves actually considering their first choice plays in English League 1 and is unavailable for this game.

And you reckon that if they lose in Dublin that they are not out of the reckoning ?

[geysir]

We are only 2 points ahead of Bulgaria atm, Bulgaria are not out of the reckoning if they beat us in Sofia.

Isn't it more than a bit ironic considering our rb options, that finally Carr has been reported as doing exceptionally well while playing 3 full games for BC, also considering he is just back after a years layoff.

[stojkovic]

We are only 2 points ahead of Bulgaria atm, Bulgaria are not out of the reckoning if they beat us in Sofia.


We are 7 points ahead of Bulgaria, TEN if we beat them on sat. They will however have one game in hand.

[eirebhoy]

And you reckon that if they lose in Dublin that they are not out of the reckoning ?
So are you saying that if we win on Saturday only ourselves and Italy have any chance of qualification (Georgia are virtually out, Montengero haven't won in their 2 home games, and Cyprus also drew in Georgia and lost in Dublin)? If we beat them and they beat us there's only their 2 dropped points in Georgia between us (well as we can judge atm).

A draw here and a win for Bulgaria at home to us more than makes up for their draw in Georgia. So no way does a win for us on Saturday knock them out.

[geysir]

We are 7 points ahead of Bulgaria, TEN if we beat them on sat. They will however have one game in hand.
And as EB pointed out, their game in hand is Georgia at home and if they win that and beat us in Sofia they are 4 points behind.
They have taken a home point against Italy
They have Cyprus at home while we still have to play Italy at home.
We would have to draw with Italy to stay 2 points ahead of Bulgaria.

The other 3 games we both have left to play are identical and its not out of the equation for example that we could drop 2 against Cyprus and they beat Cyprus.

[Jicked]

Coming back from ten points behind is a huge ask. we've experienced it in the past, we were still technically in the race for the last euros, but confidence was rock bottom going in to key games....Czech republic were no great shakes and yet we went there with no belief, and never looked like getting anything from them. if bulgaria lose on saturday they're going to have a huge pyschological blow.

[Crosby87]

You seem to overestimate both McShane and Kilbanes ability to influence the result and give little credit to the fact they are professional players who play in arguably the best league in the world.


No arguement anymore. I can't even watch the Italian or Spanish league generally. I think they are both completely overrated. No question EPL is where its at.

[Irish_Praha]

No arguement anymore. I can't even watch the Italian or Spanish league generally. I think they are both completely overrated. No question EPL is where its at.

Is that an Irish-American's effort at sarcasm? I laughed when I read it anyway. :D

[Irish_Praha]

So are you saying that if we win on Saturday only ourselves and Italy have any chance of qualification (Georgia are virtually out, Montengero haven't won in their 2 home games, and Cyprus also drew in Georgia and lost in Dublin)? If we beat them and they beat us there's only their 2 dropped points in Georgia between us (well as we can judge atm).

A draw here and a win for Bulgaria at home to us more than makes up for their draw in Georgia. So no way does a win for us on Saturday knock them out.

I agree if we win against them it's not the end of their chances. However, if we beat them and they draw against Cyprus then they are really playing catch up. Then we would effectivly have a 7 point advantage. It wouldn't be impossible but they would have to beat us in Sofiia and hope that we drop 4 or 5 (depending on our head-to-head results) points more than them in our other 4 games. As our remaing fixture would be pretty similar it would be ur own fault if we let our advantage slip. No doubt this time next week we will all be burning our brains with the possible permutations after these important fixtures :D

[Stuttgart88]

Delaney looked poor in those two international friendlies. So did Whelan, he was just fortunate to have been given chances after that.I thought Delaney was the standout player against Serbia and did very well against Columbia. Mobile and strong, good in the tackle and good on the ball. I'm sure deep down it was recognised that he rose to the occasion and could be found out at a higher level but he certainly wasn't found out in either of those two games, no way.

[Stuttgart88]

A "forensic" analysis of the table will tell you that so far the only result where we have bettered Bulgaria is Georgia away. They also have the advantage of at least one point secured from Italy where we may get none.

However, I think form, momentum and perception are important and we have the edge here. A bad start, regardless of who you've played, is hard to recover from. A good start is easier to build upon. Footballers are thick - they need simple incentives :)

We have Bulgaria twice, Italy twice and Cyprus away still, but these games are easier - don't ask me why - from the top of the table looking down than from the bottom looking up.

4 games give a flavour of how a group might unfold, 6 give it a more realistic look. Only 10 give it a final look.

[corkboy360]

Can't wait to go now probably will be my first and last time going to see Ireland play a soccer match at croke park...doing themselves no favours with the prices

Hopefully a 2-1 win and a bit of craic that night in Dubland.

[stojkovic]

And as EB pointed out, their game in hand is Georgia at home and if they win that and beat us in Sofia they are 4 points behind.
They have taken a home point against Italy
They have Cyprus at home while we still have to play Italy at home.
We would have to draw with Italy to stay 2 points ahead of Bulgaria.

The other 3 games we both have left to play are identical and its not out of the equation for example that we could drop 2 against Cyprus and they beat Cyprus.

Yes but YOU said we were only TWO points ahead of Bulgaria ATM when we are SEVEN.

Would you rather be ten points behind with a game in hand or ten points ahead having played a game more ?

On the subject of who we have still to play if it were Italy/Spain or Germany playing catch up then yes I would be worried. Its not, its Bulgaria. Take it from me if we win on Saturday Bulgaria are out of the equation.

[geysir]

Well, you do remember how Bulgaria got to one WC '94? after they were well written off against France.
It is nonsense to write off a team like Bulgaria until mathematically their chances have been consigned to the cesspit.
If we beat Bulgaria then we will be warm to hot favourites.

[stojkovic]

They dont have Stoichkov, Kostadinov, Letchkov or Balakov. That 94 team was the best team they ever had.

Anyway fingers crossed for Saturday.

[Crosby87]

345 start is perfect here. couldnt be better. dont remember a game being later than 245 in years.

[paul_oshea]

They dont have Stoichkov, Kostadinov, Letchkov or Balakov. That 94 team was the best team they ever had.

Anyway fingers crossed for Saturday.

shallimov?

[Pike B]

shallimov?
Bless you..

[paul_oshea]

Bless you..

it was the only other "ov" i could think of from around that time :D

[irishfan86]

Eleven-a-side is reporting that Stilian Petrov might not be fit for our match.

At this rate we may not have anyone to play against!

[geysir]

RTE sports reporter reckons after watching the practice game that McShane will start ahead of Kelly. Neither of them great options atm.
Anyway, lightening can't strike twice, can it?

[tetsujin1979]

After last weekend's gaff from Fanning about Robbie Keane never scoring against Man United, the independent's form continues
from http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/results-since-triumph-over-dutch-provide-grim-reading-1686429.html

Fixtures versus leading two group teams in major competion qualifying since 2-1 victory over Holland in 2001 en route to qualification for World Cup 2002:rolleyes:

[tetsujin1979]

Eleven-a-side is reporting that Stilian Petrov might not be fit for our match.

At this rate we may not have anyone to play against!
from today's Independent (although given their other recent articles, I'd take it with a pinch of salt): http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/tardelli-next-three-games-can-get-us-to-world-cup-1686432.html

All seems to be well with the home party ahead of the visit of the troubled Bulgarians, who suffered another scare yesterday when captain Stiliyan Petrov limped out of training in Sofia but was subsequently reported fine. Levski Sofia full-back Jivko Milanov is 50-50 in terms of his participation due to a knee injury.

[Pike B]

it was the only other "ov" i could think of from around that time :D
How great were that team of 94? They are forever in my memory as big as Brazil or Italy in that tournament.

Here's another OV for you:

http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1994/wc94_049.jpg

And spot the OV's here!!!


http://www.planetworldcup.com/CUPS/1994/wc94_017.jpg

[Pike B]

Squad for 94:

1 GK Borislav Mikhailov
2 DF Emil Kremenliev
3 DF Trifon Ivanov
4 DF Tzanko Tzvetanov
5 DF Petar Houbtchev
6 MD Zlatko Yankov
7 FW Emil Kostadinov
8 FW Hristo Stoitchkov
9 MD Yordan Letchkov
10 FW Nasko Sirakov
11 MD Daniel Borimirov
12 GK Plamen Nikolov
13 MD Ivailo Yordanov
14 MD Bontcho Guentchev
15 DF Nikolai Iliev
16 DF Ilian Kiriakov
17 MD Petar Mitharski
18 FW Petar Alexandrov
19 MD Georgi Georgiev
20 MD Krassimir Balakov
21 FW Velko Jotov
22 MD Ivailo Andonov

[irishultra]

These are the club teams to which the Bulgarian defence belong.

Litex Lovech
Sanfrecce Hiroshima
Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.
CSKA Sofia
Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.
Levski Sofia
Litex Lovech

Obviously it doesn't tell a full story but when you take into account the majority of them are over 30 and the youngest is 23, then I believe it does. Really mcgeady and duff on form should be ripping these apart. I hate saying it, but really this game just is crying out for a player like andy reid to string these together and keep the ball moving on the ground and feeding our wingers. Obviously a win is the only thing important but I'd love a victory to get the spirits really up. Scraping a 1-0 win isn't going to put the team on a high, imagine a 3-0 win or something? Confidence sky high for the match in Bari.

[Wolfie]

As the well worn cliche states - a lot of football still to be played in this group, Bill.

A lot depends on whether you are happy with a play off place or challenging for topping the group.

I'm happy we have the points on the board from a psychological point of view but we'll have to retain complete focus on each game - there is less margin for error than the group table currently suggests.

The doomsday scenario could see us free-fall quite quickly - just look up the games we have left.

We've got ourselves into a good position but it will mean nothing unless we are ruthless in hammering the advantage home.

[tetsujin1979]

The lad from Levski Sofia is not participating in full training at the moment according to this: http://international.ibox.bg/news/id_1652514695

Levski’s back Jivko Milanov on his part is still continuing to train on a relieved regime. His participation in Ireland worried coach Stoilov more than that of Stiliyan Petrov.
report in this afternoon's Herald about Petrov's injury: http://www.herald.ie/sport/soccer/petrov-vows-hell-be-fit-to-lead-bulgarians-1686922.html

[corkboy360]

If McShane starts we are seriously shooting ourselves in the head!

[irishfan86]

If McShane starts we are seriously shooting ourselves in the head!

I don't think McShane is the worst player in the world, and I think he's got potential.

But he's had a bad season, he's not getting first team football, and he has proven a hazard at the best of times this season.

If Trap puts him at centre-half and moves O'Shea out to the right, Saturday could end up being a very long game indeed.

[Scram]

Predict 0-0

Hope for 2-0

[tetsujin1979]

Bojinov out, according to Man City's website: http://www.mcfc.co.uk/default.sps?pagegid={DBD12D53-8346-431D-A04F-5D0F8664DE80}&newsid=6629592

[TerryPhelan]

With Berbatov (injured most likely - though it's not definite he won't play), Bojinov (injury), Domovchiyski (club refused to release him), Martin Petrov (injury) and now possibly Stiliyan Petrov (hamstring pulled in training yesterday) all out injured; coupled with the fact that we will have home advantage and - but for the absence of Finnan and S. Reid - a full-strength side (from Trap's point of view at least), surely this is the best chance we will have of beating Bulgaria and really turning up the heat in this group?

Think about it. As has already been pointed out on this forum, these are the club teams to which the Bulgarian defence belong.

Litex Lovech
Sanfrecce Hiroshima
Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.
CSKA Sofia
Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.
Levski Sofia (Milanov - who now has pulled up with injury)
Litex Lovech

I know they will probably look at Paul McShane and - much like Cassano - even Kevin Kilbane and not exactly be quaking in their boots, but nonetheless: surely we should be expecting to beat this team? I don't expect us to do it stylishly or prettily, but despite the undoubted technical superiority of the Bulgarians, we should surely be confident of a win.

This is not how I sound typically before Ireland games, but after years and years of seeing games of this kind of defining importance and influence roll around (Israel, Switzerland, Russia, Portugal) so often and only see us emerge with a point - which, as a result, only acts as a deferral of pressure to later in the campaign to produce the win we need (for instance, I always thought Kerr was tempting fate by being so content with the away draws against Switzerland and France as if he saw it as being a fait accompli that we would do the business at home and beat them) - I just feel that if we are going to do it, then our best chance is now. In front of our own fans, with a near full-strength side, against a team missing - in our parlance - their Keane, Duff and Dunne, as well as a number of lesser lights. Now is the time. A draw is not good enough. Trap is already being styled as a lucky manager but we have been given every break going approaching this tie. All of Bulgaria's best players are out. We're at home. We're seven points ahead of them (4 if you take away the game in hand). Now is our chance to bury them. We can't be expecting to magically produce that impossibly elusive away win against them in Sofia when they'll have these guys back, or when we might be dealing with injuries of our own. We have been handed a fantastic chance to lay down a marker and beat our nearest rivals for the play-off spot (we can focus on Italy afterwards). What do you lads think?
:ball:

[Brendan 82]

I agree with that. Their defence must surely be weak? If I was a neutral I would fully expect Keane, McGeady, and Doyle to rip these guys up.

I disagree with Eirebhoy that if Bulgaria lose this game they are not out. Technically they will still be in it, but a defeat on Saturday would be psychologically devastating.

I think we will be pleasantly surprised by how weak they will be.

People forget that Hector Cuper is an absolutely brilliant manager and the main reason behind Georgia's excellent performance in Dublin. This Bulgarian team is a shambles, we'll hammer em.

[Montenegrin]

As I said before,I think that you will have no problems with Bulgaria,becouse they are just not good enough.Serbia beat them 6-1 in friendly match for god sake.
I,off course,hope that you will draw with them,but I dont think it is realistic.

[irishultra]

As I said before,I think that you will have no problems with Bulgaria,becouse they are just not good enough.Serbia beat them 6-1 in friendly match for god sake.
I,off course,hope that you will draw with them,but I dont think it is realistic.

hey its been a while :D

please beat italy ;)

[paul_oshea]

ya please beat italy, that is all i ask. Thank you and good night.

[Oink]

With Berbatov (injured most likely - though it's not definite he won't play), Bojinov (injury), Domovchiyski (club refused to release him), Martin Petrov (injury) and now possibly Stiliyan Petrov (hamstring pulled in training yesterday) all out injured; coupled with the fact that we will have home advantage and - but for the absence of Finnan and S. Reid - a full-strength side (from Trap's point of view at least), surely this is the best chance we will have of beating Bulgaria and really turning up the heat in this group?

Think about it. As has already been pointed out on this forum, these are the club teams to which the Bulgarian defence belong.

Litex Lovech
Sanfrecce Hiroshima
Maccabi Tel Aviv F.C.
CSKA Sofia
Hapoel Tel Aviv F.C.
Levski Sofia (Milanov - who now has pulled up with injury)
Litex Lovech

I know they will probably look at Paul McShane and - much like Cassano - even Kevin Kilbane and not exactly be quaking in their boots, but nonetheless: surely we should be expecting to beat this team? I don't expect us to do it stylishly or prettily, but despite the undoubted technical superiority of the Bulgarians, we should surely be confident of a win.

This is not how I sound typically before Ireland games, but after years and years of seeing games of this kind of defining importance and influence roll around (Israel, Switzerland, Russia, Portugal) so often and only see us emerge with a point - which, as a result, only acts as a deferral of pressure to later in the campaign to produce the win we need (for instance, I always thought Kerr was tempting fate by being so content with the away draws against Switzerland and France as if he saw it as being a fait accompli that we would do the business at home and beat them) - I just feel that if we are going to do it, then our best chance is now. In front of our own fans, with a near full-strength side, against a team missing - in our parlance - their Keane, Duff and Dunne, as well as a number of lesser lights. Now is the time. A draw is not good enough. Trap is already being styled as a lucky manager but we have been given every break going approaching this tie. All of Bulgaria's best players are out. We're at home. We're seven points ahead of them (4 if you take away the game in hand). Now is our chance to bury them. We can't be expecting to magically produce that impossibly elusive away win against them in Sofia when they'll have these guys back, or when we might be dealing with injuries of our own. We have been handed a fantastic chance to lay down a marker and beat our nearest rivals for the play-off spot (we can focus on Italy afterwards). What do you lads think?
:ball:

You're spot on with your summarization, most people who say we will struggle against Bulgaria will back it up with little evidence or fact... merely citing the are "Technically better"?

On and off paper we most certainly have the upper hand. These are the games we need to win and , as you say, the attitude Kerr had was like crossing a bridge with one end on fire.

[corkboy360]

Looking at the squad and injuries 2points from 2 games would be good.

[elroy]

hey its been a while :D

please beat italy ;)

Not so sure about that guys, I think a draw would be the best result. Last thing we want is Montenegro up our asses.

Preferably get as many of the Italian team booked/sent off as possible!!