Glenn Whelan

[Murfinator]

Palacios started more games he played for Spurs on the right.

Source? In the last two years at the very least Palacios was the holding midfielder, particularly in their 4th place season his defensive job was cited as a major factor. He may have been playing other positions before that but I'd say hes very much a holding midfielder now. I'd imagine the plan is to play him with Delap in the centre. Etherington and Pennant out wide firing to two lanky strikers in Jones and Walters/Crouch

[Kingdom]

No sources I'm afraid. Had always assumed Huddlestone was the main man in the middle for them, then Jenas. Last season it was Sandro with Huddlestone too.
Still, you know best.

[the bear]

No sources I'm afraid. Had always assumed Huddlestone was the main man in the middle for them, then Jenas. Last season it was Sandro with Huddlestone too.
Still, you know best.

hence why palacios is surplus to requirements

he's a good buy for stoke better than whelan

[Charlie Darwin]

They're not comparable. Palacios is a destructor - similar to Faye and Diao they used to have in there. Whelan plays on the front foot, at least when he's not playing for Ireland.

[Stuttgart88]

I like to use the terms "ball user" and "ball winner". Simple, probably too simple, but perfectly descriptive. Much more meaningful than shyte like holding midfielder.

[the bear]

They're not comparable. Palacios is a destructor - similar to Faye and Diao they used to have in there. Whelan plays on the front foot, at least when he's not playing for Ireland.

they are in direct competition for a place in stokes centre mid so pulis will have to compare them

i would not see whelan as an attacking midfielder at all or a ball user for stuts, he's probably a bit more creative than palacios but i wouldn't pick him for his creative talents. i'd say it will be delap and palacios first choice

[drummerboy]

Whelan has had a great start to the season and has been very instrumental in their good start. With so many games this year in the Europa I think he will get plenty of football.

[ifk101]

I like to use the terms "ball user" and "ball winner". Simple, probably too simple, but perfectly descriptive. Much more meaningful than shyte like holding midfielder.

Holding midfielder is the arguably the best description of Whelan's role at international level as he is neither a ball user or a ball winner.

[the bear]

Holding midfielder is the arguably the best description of Whelan's role at international level as he is neither a ball user or a ball winner.

ball watcher?

[Jaysus]

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Potters&action=display&thread=177769

Not getting a lot of love.

[Kingdom]

Reading a forum like that makes me appreciate foot even more.

[theworm2345]

Reading a forum like that makes me appreciate foot even more.
In fairness to the Oatcake there are some obvious idiots but quite a few people with their heads on straight. Any forum will get knee-jerk reactions and a club forum especially considering they play more matches.

[Supreme feet]

Wilson's receiving an awful lot of stick on there too.

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=Potters&action=display&thread=177850


He just looks out of his depth.


I know one thing: I have had enough of his inept defending


He is a liability at full back. At centre back his team were badly relegated. His opportunities in midfield were an utter joke with the guy unable to pass, tackle or track back... I know his best position - at a lower league club!


The truth can't be hidden - his signing was a mistake, he has been given ample time to prove himself.

The worse mistake would be continuing to play him

Seems a bit harsh, but I haven't been watching Stoke recently. Seems to contradict the common assumption that Trap is 'out of order' for omitting him.

[drummerboy]

Glenn Whelan just signed a new 3 and a half year contract with Stoke. Tony Pulis was singing his praises, saying he has really stepped up to the plate over the last 12 months.

[SwanVsDalton]

Glenn Whelan just signed a new 3 and a half year contract with Stoke. Tony Pulis was singing his praises, saying he has really stepped up to the plate over the last 12 months.

Same action as Andy Reid, opposite outcome.

[Murfinator]

Its interesting one as Pulis was believed to have wanted Whelan out in the summer, with Palacios in it appeared Whelans days at Stoke were numbered. But a bit of fortune with injuries to Palacios gave him another oppurtunity and he's taken it. As Pulis himself said he was proven wrong.

[Kingdom]

Its interesting one as Pulis was believed to have wanted Whelan out in the summer, with Palacios in it appeared Whelans days at Stoke were numbered. But a bit of fortune with injuries to Palacios gave him another oppurtunity and he's taken it. As Pulis himself said he was proven wrong.

Where did Pulis say this?

[geysir]

Pulis just said "He has had a fantastic time these past 12 months, and he's shown that he's a player who thrives on being challenged to step up to the next level."That's probably the Celtic blood in him and a steely determination to prove people wrong, which has included even myself on occasions."

Pulis didn't mention the details of what those occasions were about, could have been a bet that Glen couldn't do the 100m inside 20 seconds and Glen's steely determination saw him succeed.

[EAFC_rdfl]

Whelan finally spoke out about being over-run in midfield in almost every match he has played under Trap, but said he would end up out of the team if he said anything. Fair play to him, I wonder does he see the idea of Hoolahan behind a loan striker as a step in the right direction, or does he want 3 out and out midfielders starting

[geysir]

Whelan finally spoke out about being over-run in midfield in almost every match he has played under Trap, but said he would end up out of the team if he said anything. Fair play to him, I wonder does he see the idea of Hoolahan behind a loan striker as a step in the right direction, or does he want 3 out and out midfielders starting

He said he would end up out of the team if he said anything? :)
He is quoted as saying "He’s the manager now and if I’m told to do something I’ll try and do it."
The only implication there, is that he's asked to do things that he's a hard time doing.

I was wondering what he meant in answer to this question

Q From your point of view, were you happy to see him stay?

A “From my point of view, yeah, well, either or

either or? I know it's dubenglish but was he saying he would be happy either way, Trap in or Trap out?

Whelan outs Trap (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1113/1224326524807.html)

[Crosby87]

After reading that whole interview in the other thread i wonder if the players are going to dump the Greece game on purpose.

[PatJR]

I think what he means is that he not going to concern himself with things he cannot change just get on with whatever job he is asked to do. Pretty simple, straight forward and professional attitude. I do feel sorry for Whelan, he has become probably the main target for stick and he is 100% right about the 2 versus 3 in midfield. Always looks a much better and effective player for Stoke. A regular midfielder for a few seasons in a mid table EPL team, not many Irish players fall into that category yet he's the worst there has ever been.

[dr_peepee]

Listened to him on OTB last night. He spoke of his record in recent years and how it stands up to scrutiny. Which to be fair it does on paper. I wonder does he attribute any of it to playing under Trap and what he's learned? Basically when i hear Didi Hamman giving Trap credit for how he brought him on as a central midfielder at Bayern I've oftern wondered has Whelan benefitted in the same manner and would he acknowledge as much....

[EAFC_rdfl]

He said he would end up out of the team if he said anything? :)
He is quoted as saying "He’s the manager now and if I’m told to do something I’ll try and do it."
The only implication there, is that he's asked to do things that he's a hard time doing.

I was wondering what he meant in answer to this question

Q From your point of view, were you happy to see him stay?

A “From my point of view, yeah, well, either or

either or? I know it's dubenglish but was he saying he would be happy either way, Trap in or Trap out?

Whelan outs Trap (http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/sport/2012/1113/1224326524807.html)

Ok maybe I need to be even clearer - if he said anything....about being over run in midfield. hows that?
I listened back to him speaking on todayfm sport from 8:30 this morning - his exact quote was "...you do what he says, cause if you don't you're not going to get picked".

[geysir]

Listened to him on OTB last night. He spoke of his record in recent years and how it stands up to scrutiny. Which to be fair it does on paper. I wonder does he attribute any of it to playing under Trap and what he's learned? Basically when i hear Didi Hamman giving Trap credit for how he brought him on as a central midfielder at Bayern I've oftern wondered has Whelan benefitted in the same manner and would he acknowledge as much....
Didi Hamman had more ability for Trap to uncover :)
Hard to say whether Whelan would or would not be the same player for Stoke if Trap had not adopted him all those years ago. It certainly did him no harm. He's the type of player with the attitude that garnered respect from coaches and he learned from them.

[geysir]

Ok maybe I need to be even clearer - if he said anything....about being over run in midfield. hows that?
I listened back to him speaking on todayfm sport from 8:30 this morning - his exact quote was "...you do what he says, cause if you don't you're not going to get picked".
And what manger would tolerate a player not following his orders?
You have to admit that it's quite different to what you first thought Glenn said.
He did say that it's not for him to go and tell the manager that he's not going to play that role.
There are two things, he's not happy with the criticism being leveled at our midfield which means he personally has (unfairly) taken the brunt of some of the criticism directed and he's not happy with the way the midfield is set up from a competitive point of view.
He's shoved the responsibility entirely back onto Trap for the way midfield are set up to play.
I think at this stage this is not shocking news as the issue of Trap's intransigence has dominated discussions around the team since before we went to the Euro Finals.

[paul_oshea]

Well before we had qualified for the Euros too, I might add.

Still its fairly damning saying "if you don't do what he says you don't get picked". I think they, the players, know given what's gone on in the past few months, they are shielded from being dropped by Trap because there is a witchhunt being conducted by the media, rightfully so to an extent. They would never have come out and said this before, even though they felt it. He clearly blames the system for how badly the midfield has performed, with him in that midfield. If any salt to what you say, then assuming its changed to a 3 man midfield, with him in that 3 man midfield, and his performances are still pretty abject, then we can judge Whelan fairly(and fully).

[geysir]

...He clearly blames the system for how badly the midfield has performed, with him in that midfield. If any salt to what you say, then assuming its changed to a 3 man midfield, with him in that 3 man midfield, and his performances are still pretty abject, then we can judge Whelan fairly(and fully).
I think by now (after 5 years?) we know what Whelan is about as a player.
The issue is more to do with our midfield as unit, how it performs with the ball at their feet instead of hoofing it upfront or knocking it back to the goalie and how it competes against other midfields.

[Stuttgart88]

And what manger would tolerate a player not following his orders?
You have to admit that it's quite different to what you first thought Glenn said.
He did say that it's not for him to go and tell the manager that he's not going to play that role.
There are two things, he's not happy with the criticism being leveled at our midfield which means he personally has (unfairly) taken the brunt of some of the criticism directed and he's not happy with the way the midfield is set up from a competitive point of view.
He's shoved the responsibility entirely back onto Trap for the way midfield are set up to play.
I think at this stage this is not shocking news as the issue of Trap's intransigence has dominated discussions around the team since before we went to the Euro Finals.Nor is it news - Whelan has commented on this in the past.

[paul_oshea]

Ah he hasn't been as outright just that he had mentioned that he preferred 2 in the middle. He has clearly come out and said "you do what he says or you dont play", which could be taken as, he doesn't really listen to anyone else, including tardelli, and the consequences are not good for those who dont "play ball", as we have seen in the past.

[geysir]

I wonder does that ("you do what he says or you dont play") apply to Coleman, who appears to have a 'free to roam' pass in his back pocket?
He does end up in some strange positions, veering into CM and even over to the left side of CM.

[Charlie Darwin]

I wonder does that ("you do what he says or you dont play") apply to Coleman, who appears to have a 'free to roam' pass in his back pocket?
He does end up in some strange positions, veering into CM and even over to the left side of CM.
Maybe Trapattoni doesn't recognise him?

[geysir]

A CM of Coleman and Hunt would be 'interesting'.

[paul_oshea]

It would be like our current CM, a void, non-existent, etc etc - but for different reasons obviously.

[Charlie Darwin]

It would be like our current CM, a void, non-existent, etc etc - but for different reasons obviously.
At least you'd see them. Running around in circles in the general direction of the ball, tripping over their heels, etc.

[Charlie Darwin]

I see Whelan was muscled off the ball in midfield in the lead-up to the Newcastle goal tonight, though Begovic will take the flak for his non-save.

[tricky_colour]

He was played into a bit of a tight spot, there was a player to the left of him who should have been an
outlet but unfortunately he ran to a position where he was unavailable hence there was no much on for him
and he got caught on the ball, he could have done better though perhaps.
Still 3 points for Stoke and he was got a decent rating on Sky sports.
"All-round good display some excellent passing".

[theworm2345]

He was played into a bit of a tight spot, there was a player to the left of him who should have been an
outlet but unfortunately he ran to a position where he was unavailable hence there was no much on for him
and he got caught on the ball, he could have done better though perhaps.
Still 3 points for Stoke and he was got a decent rating on Sky sports.
"All-round good display some excellent passing".
The commentators gave him high praise throughout the match, did note that as one bad moment.

[tricky_colour]

He is actually one of our highest placed players in the stats, and the highest in his position.
I looked at the number of dispossessions per game and his was 0.5 where as for McCarthy it was 0.9.
So it's a pretty rare event for him.

[the bear]

He is actually one of our highest placed players in the stats, and the highest in his position.
I looked at the number of dispossessions per game and his was 0.5 where as for McCarthy it was 0.9.
So it's a pretty rare event for him.

They can't take it of you if you don't have it

[Crosby87]

Yeah just like in my favorite movie, Titanic, when Leo says when you got nothin you got nothing to lose? Oh Leo is so dreamy.

[DannyInvincible]

Yeah just like in my favorite movie, Titanic, when Leo says when you got nothin you got nothing to lose? Oh Leo is so dreamy.

How many times did you see it in the cinema but?

[tricky_colour]

But??????

[geysir]

Yeah just like in my favorite movie, Titanic, when Leo says when you got nothin you got nothing to lose?
Bob Dylan must be a fan as well.

[OwlsFan]

Assuming it comes down to a choice as to who is to play beside McCarthy (ignoring the Trap won't change clamour), Whelan or Andrews? In the past I would have opted for Andrews but Whelan is playing regularly in the Premiership and will perform better with a more skilful player beside him. Whelan for me.

[Supreme feet]

I'd pick Gibson beside McCarthy, if available. I'm genuinely sick of the sight of Whelan in a green shirt. He offers absolutely nothing, and it's astounding that he's been playing regular EPL football for so long. If anything, it serves to show how little technique you need to play in midfield in that league. When Whelan receives the ball, his first instinct is to either pass it back in the direction it came, pass it back to the goalkeeper, or lump it up the field into 'the channels'. He never knows what to do before he gets the ball, and lacks the composure and vision to turn, pick a pass, and execute it with any accuracy, and change the focus of the attack - something which seems to come naturally to even a developing Wigan player like McCarthy. If Whelan was a rugby player, he'd be Tomas O'Leary.

He's nominally there as a 'holding' or defensive midfielder, but even if he was an impressive reader of the game, and good at breaking up play (which he isn't), the trend in European football is not for Carsley-type anchormen these days, but for Carrick/Busquets/Alonso/Pirlo-type deep-lying playmakers who can combine decent athleticism with intelligent, measured passing. Whelan does not fit in this mould, and neither does Meyler, for that matter, on recent evidence. Gibson is the best suited to that deep-lying role from our scant resources, and a McCarthy-Gibson partnership would at least give us a bit of technical savvy in the middle without compromising on athleticism.

Edit - and if the above sounds a bit harsh, let's not forget that Whelan is closing in on 50 caps. We've had plenty of limited midfielders before, but the likes of Holland, Kinsella, Carsley and McLoughlin could all put in effective performances on their day. Even Kilbane had a few good days in his ill-fated central-midfield run. I just don't see what Whelan offers.

[tricky_colour]

I'd agree Whelan is hardly the most inspiring player on the pitch nothing, his game seems to focus on safety,
on that occasion he would have done better to be even more negative and kick the ball into touch!!

[Crosby87]

Bob Dylan must be a fan as well.


You mean Robert Zimmerman? Thats Bob's (as I call him) real name.

[Colbert Report]

Glenn Whelan could well face legal trouble over a horror challenge on Javi Garcia right at the start of the second half in today's match against Manchester City. I've just watched it myself, and it was a two footed long jump kind of "tackle" that was clearly meant to break Garcia's leg. Howard Webb was three yards away and didn't give a card, probably because Zabaleta fouled Whelan immediately after.

[Charlie Darwin]

Yeah I think he's facing a couple of years in prison for that one.