Glenn Whelan

[tricky_colour]

Well he was part of Stokes win over Cheslea today.


he looks a different player since he grew a mustache.


http://c2.dmlimg.com/abeafefb1775bcdec36d9c59ed895122ec5a4ee5f295ca3d21 df28a4b96628b7.jpg



http://media.joe.ie/wp-content/uploads/2013/11/WhelanMo.jpg

[Charlie Darwin]

Sent off at Newcastle for what Tony Cottee called a crazy second yellow for bundling into the back of someone. Was 1-0 to Stoke, now 1-1 as Wilson followed him into the dressing room a couple of minutes later.

[peadar1987]

Sent off at Newcastle for what Tony Cottee called a crazy second yellow for bundling into the back of someone. Was 1-0 to Stoke, now 1-1 as Wilson followed him into the dressing room a couple of minutes later.

It was never a yellow card. Hassling the player from behind near the sideline just inside his own half. Shocking decision (and Whelan had been playing okay until then as well).

The first yellow was just stupid though, kicking the ball away. You do something that plain thick and you're leaving yourself wide open to criminal refereeing decisions like Atkinson's

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Jonathan Walters

Was characteristically hard-working but offered little else, even before the two dismissals, as he failed to produce any real moments of quality. It's fairly easy to see how he's scored a solitary goal this season.

Goal.com

A bad day for all the Irish Stokies then.

[peadar1987]

Walters was alright first half. Held the ball up well and distribution was decent (and put in a really good cross or two). He never really looked like a goal threat, but that's not the job he's in the team for at the moment.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

He's been missing a lot of gilt edged chances in fairness.

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/224156/walters-3-yards-out

The Stoke fans despise him.

They rate Ireland across the board. Wilson and Whelan are more polarising figures. The vast majority do not like Walters.

[peadar1987]

That chance was hardly gilt-edged, very narrow angle, moving at speed, and he sliced it. That thread is a bit of a joke (a couple of people call out the poster who started it)

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Stoke fans despise Walters. He's a very popular figure at the club, his name gets sung most games at the Brit. There's a noisy minority who are frustrated with his poor finishing, but out of the Irish players, Whelan is probably the least popular.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Someone blamed Whelan's getting sent off for their capitulation but the majority stood up for him.

Like you say, there is a lot of vitriol on these fan forums but there is an extremely ill sentiment against Walters after starting 100 odd games in a row and missing several penalties.

[tricky_colour]

Seems like Stoke are not much a of a team with 2 of the Irish missing.

[peadar1987]

Someone blamed Whelan's getting sent off for their capitulation but the majority stood up for him.

Like you say, there is a lot of vitriol on these fan forums but there is an extremely ill sentiment against Walters after starting 100 odd games in a row and missing several penalties.

Whelan's sending off was the turning point, but the sending off wasn't his fault.

The general feeling about Walters is that he works very hard and contributes a lot to the team overall, although people are frustrated with his performance once he gets in front of goal of late. He's hardly despised, even if he's not as popular as, say, Ricardo Fuller or Sanli Tuncay were.



Seems like Stoke are not much a of a team with 2 of the Irish missing.

Not many teams are up to much when down to 9 men for over half the game, unfortunately

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Whelan's sending off was the turning point, but the sending off wasn't his fault.

The general feeling about Walters is that he works very hard and contributes a lot to the team overall, although people are frustrated with his performance once he gets in front of goal of late. He's hardly despised, even if he's not as popular as, say, Ricardo Fuller or Sanli Tuncay were.


Not many teams are up to much when down to 9 men for over half the game, unfortunately

Tuncay was a very underrated player imo.

[Charlie Darwin]

Just seen it on MOTD - a softer sending off you won't see. Wilson can't have any complaints.

[tricky_colour]

Seems he has shaved his mustache off, it's like Samson and Delilah all over again.

[Crosby87]

Damn. I had him entered in the Tom Selleck contest.
Another $100 out the window.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Hopefully Whelan's red card gets rescinded.

[Charlie Darwin]

It can't get rescinded as it was two yellows.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

It can't get rescinded as it was two yellows.

Luckily, they each only miss one game and as it's the festive period, rotation is the name of the game.

http://www.thefa.com/football-rules-governance/suspensions

[Charlie Darwin]

I don't think so - Stoke have been going better with him in the team than they have at any other point in the season. I don't think Palacios is going to oust him, and a midfield with Adam and Ireland in it would lack bite. Wilson will be needed at the back once he returns - they essentially only have one centre half right now, and Shawcross looked very uncomfortable coming off against United and in the clips I saw of him on Newcastle.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

I wonder where Wilson would be better suited playing from an Irish perspective with the Euro 2016 campaign on the horizon; left back or centre back?

[peadar1987]

Wilson will be in the centre for Stoke when available for the next while I think, he's a better option there than Cameron, and Huth is going to be out for a few more weeks unfortunately. He has looked error-prone in that position though. I wouldn't have him as a centre half if other options were available

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

Very unlikely to happen but Whelan is being linked with a move to Norwich if Stoke sign Cattermole. It's easy to link Cattermole with a team like Stoke but he played 80 minutes in the win over Man Utd.

And Whelan has been used fairly regular by Hughes after a rocky start.

[Stuttgart88]

And he scored against Italy which is more than Robbie Keane has ever done, apart from his goal against Italy. The late equalising goal. In Italy.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

And he scored against Italy which is more than Robbie Keane has ever done, apart from his goal against Italy. The late equalising goal. In Italy.

I really don't get the opprobrium over my comments about Robbie Keane. He has a fantastic goalscoring record and is a loyal servant to his country. I didn't even really criticise him. 62 goals or not, he is open to the same analysis and judgment as any other player. I simply scrutinised that a comparatively quite small number of Keane's goals come against top seeded teams (and I included Wales and Israel). Yes I am aware that we are lacking in other strikers that can score goals but Keane must have over 50 competitive starts where Long has half-a-dozen and Stokes is untested. It's not even just about the goals. It's about his age, his overall play and where he fits into a progressive thinking formation and strategy.

As for Whelan. Fantastic goal against Italy and in hindsight himself and Andrews did as good as they could reasonably be expected to do, considering the circumstances, during WC 2010 qualification, but his performances have severely regressed over the last two campaigns. We have conceded a lot of important goals because of his mistakes but it's not his fault. Everyone but the person that mattered could see that he needed to be dropped. I am Paul Green's biggest opponent but even he looked like he could do a better job over his last 2 or 3 starts.

That Whelan goal against Italy also serves to remind how much Ireland missed Liam Lawrence over the last couple years. After his expulsion and Duff's retirement, we lost a lot of our threat from set-pieces. I always thought that Lawrence had the physicality and passing ability to do a job in central midfield as well.

[geysir]

And he scored against Italy which is more than Robbie Keane has ever done, apart from his goal against Italy. The late equalising goal. In Italy.
That would be the tandem goal in Bari, Keane and Hunt.
Robbie skiied a chance later on, would that not count as nr 4 in his missed chances?
If i were Robbie, that would be the one that would have me waking up in the middle of the night in a clamour of sweat, 'if only I had buried that one as well, what a night it would have been'.

[paul_oshea]

I really don't get the opprobrium over my comments about Robbie Keane. He has a fantastic goalscoring record and is a loyal servant to his country. I didn't even really criticise him. 62 goals or not, he is open to the same analysis and judgment as any other player. I simply scrutinised that a comparatively quite small number of Keane's goals come against top seeded teams (and I included Wales and Israel). Yes I am aware that we are lacking in other strikers that can score goals but Keane must have over 50 competitive starts where Long has half-a-dozen and Stokes is untested. It's not even just about the goals. It's about his age, his overall play and where he fits into a progressive thinking formation and strategy.

As for Whelan. Fantastic goal against Italy and in hindsight himself and Andrews did as good as they could reasonably be expected to do, considering the circumstances, during WC 2010 qualification, but his performances have severely regressed over the last two campaigns. We have conceded a lot of important goals because of his mistakes but it's not his fault. Everyone but the person that mattered could see that he needed to be dropped. I am Paul Green's biggest opponent but even he looked like he could do a better job over his last 2 or 3 starts.

That Whelan goal against Italy also serves to remind how much Ireland missed Liam Lawrence over the last couple years. After his expulsion and Duff's retirement, we lost a lot of our threat from set-pieces. I always thought that Lawrence had the physicality and passing ability to do a job in central midfield as well.

You have come to the wrong place if you expect agreement on the general consensus of The Ireland team and its players that you would expect.

I for one love Robbie and really worry about the day he no longer takes to the field for Ireland, but most of what you said is a fair assessment and what the reasoned Irish football fan would agree with also.

Having said that, what would robbie have been capable of for Tier 1 team, I imagine he wouldnt have got the chances he got with Ireland as he would have been dropped a lot sooner mainly down to the chances he would have missed.

[geysir]

I really don't get the opprobrium over my comments about Robbie Keane..
More ridicule than opprobrium.
When you litter your critique of Robbie with statements like 'you wouldn't bank on him to score a penalty' and use the only miss as an example.
When after 3 years you still stubbornly cling to a cynical interpretation of a quote taken in isolation and ignore every other statement Robbie has made on the matter of his non retirement.
Why? because you know better, hand on ears, 'I'm not listening any more, I have my quote and Im sticking with it'.
That translates into a subjective agenda that deserves ridicule.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

More ridicule than opprobrium.
When you litter your critique of Robbie with statements like 'you wouldn't bank on him to score a penalty' and use the only miss as an example.
When after 3 years you still stubbornly cling to a cynical interpretation of a quote taken in isolation and ignore every other statement Robbie has made on the matter of his non retirement.
Why? because you know better, hand on ears, 'I'm not listening any more, I have my quote and Im sticking with it'.
That translates into a subjective agenda that deserves ridicule.

You can't have it both ways. First, the quote/s never existed. Now, it's just the one quote in isolation. It's neither. I have my doubts that Keane would settle for a place on the bench, especially seeing as he plays for LA Galaxy, and how much he's made of travelling around the globe to start for his country. I think that's reasonably fair.

I also don't think he should be a guaranteed starter for myriad reasons, not least the fact that his goalscoring record against top seeded teams is not good enough and he doesn't offer enough in his overall play to impact games.

I also, on prodding, provided a list of the amount of goals that he has/hasn't scored against top 3 seeded teams but supposedly that doesn't count for objective criticism and I still have an agenda.

You use one irrelevant comment about "penalties" and that isn't any more subjective than a quote from Keane that was the source of a lot of conjecture when it happened?

My comments don't deserve ridicule same as anyone else on the forum. We are all entitled to our beliefs no matter how much people disagree with them. No player is beyond reproach.

[Crosby87]

No player is beyond reproach.

If we all admit athletes are human and thus no human/athlete is perfect, wouldnt Pele, Messi, Beckenbauer, George B, and Diego be close? Some on here would also list Johnser Keane.

[geysir]

You can't have it both ways. First, the quote/s never existed. Now, it's just the one quote in isolation. It's neither. I have my doubts that Keane would settle for a place on the bench, especially seeing as he plays for LA Galaxy, and how much he's made of travelling around the globe to start for his country. I think that's reasonably fair.

It's an opinion but not a fair opinion as in a rational opinion. It's an opinion about a quote which does not have a leg to stand on, completely unsupported by any other event in the last 3 years, nor any answer Robbie has given to the same question repeated to him. Barring injury he has made himself available for every match and even played through injury. Action speaks much louder than anything else, his actions as irish player and captain are beyond reproach.
Your opinion on his quote from 2011 defines stubbornness and strongly suggests having an agenda.


I also don't think he should be a guaranteed starter for myriad reasons, not least the fact that his goalscoring record against top seeded teams is not good enough and he doesn't offer enough in his overall play to impact games.

I also, on prodding, provided a list of the amount of goals that he has/hasn't scored against top 3 seeded teams but supposedly that doesn't count for objective criticism and I still have an agenda.

You use one irrelevant comment about "penalties" and that isn't any more subjective than a quote from Keane that was the source of a lot of conjecture when it happened?

My comments don't deserve ridicule same as anyone else on the forum. We are all entitled to our beliefs no matter how much people disagree with them. No player is beyond reproach.
Most posters here don't think Robbie should be an automatic starter.
You asked why you got ridicule/opprobrium, I gave you my considered opinion on that matter.

[Stuttgart88]

Geysir, yes I had thought of that Italy chance but in my opinion that was a "could have scored" rather than a "should have scored". I don't think he skied it as you said. In fact he caught it really well and it didn't dip in time. Has Keane left other chances out there? No question. He could easily have 75 goals. But so what?

We can continue to let TOWK repeat his opinion over and over, and let him add other meaningless comparisons to prolific goalscorers, nothing is going to change. I and others have conceded that there is some sense in what he us saying and agreed with large parts of his argument, but in my opinion if Keane won't offer a goal threat against a top seeded team I can't see how an inferior goalscorer can be expected to have a better chance. And even then, it's not the opinion that deserves ridicule, it's the presentation of the argument. The Shevchenko comparison at Euro 2012 was odd to say the least, as was the suggestion that Ukraine throughout the 2000s were a team of nobodies carried by one player, whereas we were in some way better. That struck me as simply a mean-spirited attempt to try and belittle Keane.


Wrt other prolific goalscorers at small to mid sized countries, I'd say that they have benefitted from their international sides being quasi club sides. So Keane's record doesn't mean he must be one of the worlds leading strikers, but man is it some record nonetheless. Suker is another who springs to mind.

[Olé Olé]

Rumours adrift that if Lee Cattermole moves from Sunderland to Stoke then Norwich will swoop in for Whelan.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://oatcakefanzine.proboards.com/thread/227428/whelan-again

Really winning over the Stoke fans this season. Credit where it's due, he's probably one of the first names on the team sheet after winning his place in the team back earlier this season.

[tricky_colour]

There is no stopping the human handbrake!!

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://www.stokesentinel.co.uk/Stoke-City-Unsung-hero-Glenn-Whelan-finally-wins/story-21103223-detail/story.html

Heavy praise for Whelan and Wilson.

[tetsujin1979]

Reading the FourFourTwo season preview, and Whelan is listed as Stoke's most underrated player

Not universally adored, but last season he was a revelation

[Charlie Darwin]

Whelan found himself in the unusual position of breaking through on goal against Hull following an underhit backpass. He was hacked down by James Chester and the Hull defender was sent off.

[Stuttgart88]

Would you attribute any blame to McShane? His pass was mis controlled which led to Whelan being able to burst through.

Personally I think a midfielder should be able to protect the ball in that situation and I prefer to see a full back pass inside rather than chip it up the line.

[Charlie Darwin]

I would have to see it again but I didn't think it was his fault at the time, just a poor backpass.

[Charlie Darwin]

Some gratitude. After giving his side a man advantage, Hughes rewards Whelan by taking him off in the first half for Bojan. Moments later, it's 1-0 Hull.

[Stuttgart88]

I thought I saw Whelan looking to the bench a few times in the minutes before he was taken off. Not sure if it was him or their number 5.

[Stuttgart88]

I would have to see it again but I didn't think it was his fault at the time, just a poor backpass.
McShane gave a hospital pass a few minutes later! Similar outcome.

[tricky_colour]

I would have to see it again but I didn't think it was his fault at the time, just a poor backpass.

I have it recorded and have just watched it a few times, unfortunately the controls on the remote control are not very good
it is easier to control playback when I used to record to the PC, but anyway..

Firstly McShane was put onder a bit of pressure by the centre back, the centre forward knew the ball was going to be passed to McShane
and was hence closing him down quickly, the centre back would have been better passing back to the left back from whence the ball
came. Stoke were pressing the backs so it made it difficult for McShane, he would probably have been better hoofing it.

Hence I would I would give credit to Whelan more than anything, indeed I have never seen him move so fast in my life!!

So rather ironic he was taken off, perhaps doubly ironic Stoke went one down shortly afterwards!!

Bit tough on Glenn, I am usually not too praising of him and when I am he gets subbed!!

Hence I have to assume Glenn was injured the rare injection of pace much have caused something to snap!! :D

[SwanVsDalton]

Today's Mirror reported that he was taken off injured.

[Stuttgart88]

I could have sworn I saw him looking to the bench a few times before he was hooked. I also am sure he actively turned his back on the ball and sought not to be involved or available in the minutes before he went off. Now, cynics would say that he does that all the time, but throughout he was reaching down to his calf or ankle while looking to the bench. The only thing I couldn't be sure of was whether it was him or their number 5, but given his pitch position I assumed it was 6.

[Charlie Darwin]

Perhaps Hughes just took the opportunity of Whelan's injury to make a tactical change then.

[tricky_colour]

Today's Mirror reported that he was taken off injured.

Sounds very credible!! I mean he was subbed on 41' minutes, I know some here are not always complementary of Glenn
but imagine how bad you would have to be to get subbed 4 minutes before half time!!

[tricky_colour]

Perhaps Hughes just took the opportunity of Whelan's injury to make a tactical change then.

Except that wouldn't be tactical really, I mean you would wait the 4 minutes so you could have a bit of a team talk
on the change.

[TheOneWhoKnocks]

http://thescore.thejournal.ie/opinion-in-defence-glenn-whelan-1742712-Oct2014/

In defence of Whelan.

[Charlie Darwin]

He shouldn't really need defending. He went off against Germany and ten minutes later a lack of communication in midfield led to Germany opening the scoring. If it had been Whelan who'd come on instead of going off, we all know he'd have been blamed for the goal. The fact his absence was a major contributing factor to the goal is never going to be popular.

[tetsujin1979]

He shouldn't really need defending. He went off against Germany and ten minutes later a lack of communication in midfield led to Germany opening the scoring. If it had been Whelan who'd come on instead of going off, we all know he'd have been blamed for the goal. The fact his absence was a major contributing factor to the goal is never going to be popular.
Remember what Stephen Hunt said about Whelan: http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/european-championships/stephen-hunt-irish-will-have-to-fight-a-thousand-little-battles-in-tbilisi-just-like-mine-with-berbatov-30567230.html

I was good at talking to refs, which might not surprise you. Glenn Whelan is good at it, too. This is Glenn Whelan's job. Glenn never stops talking. Outsiders might look at the team and wonder why Ireland can't find somebody with more of a range than Glenn Whelan, but when you play somewhere like Tbilisi, Glenn's a man you want out there because he talks and he tries to control the pace of the game.