Starting 11 v San Marino

**DeNiro** · 23/10/2006, 3:12 PM

While it doesn't excuse his performance against Holland, there were reports in one newspaper of Kenny having personal problems around the time of the Cyprus and Czech Rep game. It could explain his performance against Cyprus and the reason why he didn't play in the Czech game. I don't think it was his hamstring that prevented him playing in the last game!

**Stuttgart88** · 23/10/2006, 3:22 PM

In fairness to Kenny, I think he made 2 excellent saves he didn't get credit for. In the very first minute, following a woefully short back pass from Finnan, he tipped the ball wide with his fingertip in the ensuing 1 on 1, but no corner was given.

Also, seconds after Dunne's equaliser, I also think he tipped a shot onto the bar that again went unnoticed.

For their second goal I'd blame O'Shea more for allowing the cross in but Kenny had to be faulted. If he'd stayed on his line I think they may still have scored though. It was a good cross.

I do agree though that in both his last 2 games his defence looked all at sea & there appeared to be no understanding between him & his defenders. I'd blame Finnan for leaving the ball to him on the 18 yard box in the first half. Finnan is the more experienced and unless Kenny called for it Finnan should have just hoofed it.

I'm looking forward to getting proper look at young Logan at Leicester. Henderson did nothing wrong against Czechs and looked confident. The aura a keeper gives out is important.

**John83** · 23/10/2006, 3:24 PM

Originally Posted by as_i_say

a friend of mine taped the czech game for me and we paused it just when o shea lost the ball in midfield or gave away the free cant remember which, he just turned to his right and started staring at the crowd, like he was still thinking about the goal.

You know, if you unpause the tape...

**DotTV** · 23/10/2006, 4:17 PM

Kenny never seems to have any level of communication with his defence.
This really amazes me as it is the one marker of any good keeper even in junior football.
I can't understand how people would name him.He has had to absolute shockers for Ireland and I'd say he would ****e himself at the prospect on pulling on the Irish jersey again.

**eirebhoy** · 23/10/2006, 5:06 PM

Originally Posted by DotTV

I can't understand how people would name him.He has had to absolute shockers for Ireland and I'd say he would ****e himself at the prospect on pulling on the Irish jersey again.

He made a poor mistake against Cyprus but I wouldn't say he's had 2 shockers. He just happened to be in 2 of our worst teams in the last 10 years or so.

**carloz** · 23/10/2006, 7:34 PM

well if you are gonna pick players based on the Cyprus performances then Douglas has to start. Ono fo the very few Leeds players who still has his reputation intact after the last few weeks. I dont see how anyone could start Kilbane in CM, especially after Cyprus. Maybe start him on the wing but nowhere near CM. Against San Marino i think a chance can be taken and Reid, Duff and McGeady could all start. Couldnt see this happening against better opposition. Reid played excellent for Charlton at the weekend playing just off of Bent which might be intersting for Ireland in the future

**carloz** · 23/10/2006, 7:39 PM

Originally Posted by cavan_fan

My hunch is that if fit, Stan may pick Miller ahead of Douglas.

Cant see this happening at all. Miller cant get his place in a Sunderland team ravaged by injuries at the moment and anyone who saw Leeds play last year would have to say that Douglas is a better player

**tetsujin1979** · 23/10/2006, 11:24 PM

Isn't he still carrying the foot injury that he was sent back to Sunderland with?

**shakermaker1982** · 24/10/2006, 7:44 AM

GK Henderson
LB S Kelly
RB Finnan
CB Dunne
CB McShane

LW Duff
RW McGeady
CM Carsley
CM A Reid

FW Doyle
FW Keano.

Douglas very close to a starting line up.

**gwhite** · 24/10/2006, 8:57 AM

I can guarantee that Kilbane will start in CM, as useless there as he is. I just don't see Stan dropping him. He should've been dropped by McCarthy at WC 2002 after the Cameroon game and wasn't, he should've been dropped by Kerr midway through the 2006 campaign and wasn't and he should've been dropped by Stan after Cyprus (shocking injury list or not) and wasn't. I wonder what these guys see in him that we don't because I've yet to meet a fan that rates him....

**Stuttgart88** · 24/10/2006, 9:56 AM

Kilbane didn't play CM against Czech Rep. though.

**Dotsy** · 24/10/2006, 10:13 AM

If Stan has a full sqaud to choose from I wouldn't put it past him to start Andy O' Brien or JOS alongside Dunne at CB

**galwayhoop** · 24/10/2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by gwhite

I can guarantee that Kilbane will start in CM, as useless there as he is. I just don't see Stan dropping him. He should've been dropped by McCarthy at WC 2002 after the Cameroon game and wasn't, he should've been dropped by Kerr midway through the 2006 campaign and wasn't and he should've been dropped by Stan after Cyprus (shocking injury list or not) and wasn't. I wonder what these guys see in him that we don't because I've yet to meet a fan that rates him....

he will start. he has started for how many consectutive games?! in fairness to him he may not be the best (i don't rate him too highly anyhow) but he does give it his all in every game. i suppose that he is an example of the right attitude to the rest and on this he gets the nod over lads who are on better form or supposid better players foor this reason.

**DotTV** · 24/10/2006, 12:59 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

He made a poor mistake against Cyprus but I wouldn't say he's had 2 shockers. He just happened to be in 2 of our worst teams in the last 10 years or so.

True, he had poor players on front of him but it's up to the keeper to try and organise the defense.He didn't come close.
Shay wouldn't have conceded half as many goals IMO

**Stuttgart88** · 24/10/2006, 2:16 PM

I've just noticed this quote from Gordon Strachan on etims.net, which backs up pretty much what some were saying earlier in the thread:

I’ve been round the world watching football, studying fitness techniques, but it’s quite simple in the end that it comes down to having a formation that stops you losing goals and then get some good players to win the game for you. It’s not as cosmic as coaches make out

**eirebhoy** · 24/10/2006, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by DotTV

True, he had poor players on front of him but it's up to the keeper to try and organise the defense.He didn't come close.

I would have said it was up to one of the centre halves to organise the defence. The keeper can organise a wall and things at set pieces but I don't see how he can lead the line. I would agree though Given's presence is a huge influence.

Shay wouldn't have conceded half as many goals IMO

I doubt Shay has played in front of an Irish defence as bad as the one that played against Holland or a central midfield as bad at keeping possession as the one in Cyprus (on paper at least). He's one of the best keepers in the world and I wouldn't expect Kenny to come close to him. Kenny's still our 2nd best keeper though imo.

/edit - Just seen Stutts post on Strachan. That is exactly how I felt Strachan thought about the game too. He buys the best players possible for attacking positions but so far hasn't spent much on the Celtic defence. Virgo, Wilson, Naylor, Camara, Telfer and Caldwell are the defenders he has signed. Certainly not on par with the signings of Nakamura, Gravesen, Jarosik, Venegoor, etc.

**gwhite** · 24/10/2006, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Kilbane didn't play CM against Czech Rep. though.

It doesn't matter where he plays, he will still give the ball away. Sure, he has a good attitude and is honest but he just gives the ball away too much. I think the fact that he scored against the Czechs will mean he is in for the next few games.

**Stuttgart88** · 24/10/2006, 2:54 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

That is exactly how I felt Strachan thought about the game too. He buys the best players possible for attacking positions but so far hasn't spent much on the Celtic defence. Virgo, Wilson, Naylor, Camara, Telfer and Caldwell are the defenders he has signed. Certainly not on par with the signings of Nakamura, Gravesen, Jarosik, Venegoor, etc.

So by applying Strachan's theory to the Irish team, a sound keeper and back four plus maybe Carsley & Douglas to add some bite to midfield, then add the 4 flair players and let them go about their game. But having only Carsley and then 5 diminutive attacking players would violate his principle of having a formation that reduces the opposition's goal threat.

Sterve Claridge had an interesting comment on bbc website today on what made O'Neill a great manager too. Organisation & inspiration, and picking square pegs for square holes. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/foot...la/6078144.stm

I think Strachan's approach is more applicable to Ireland because a manager can't go out and buy players of particular physical & mental characteristics.

Put it another way, with what we have available I think it's far more feasible to put out a team like Celtic put out against Benfica than a typical O'Neill team.

**Stuttgart88** · 24/10/2006, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by gwhite

It doesn't matter where he plays, he will still give the ball away. Sure, he has a good attitude and is honest but he just gives the ball away too much. I think the fact that he scored against the Czechs will mean he is in for the next few games.

True, but I was merely querying your assertion that he's guaranteed to start in CM.

Personally there are games where I'd consider playing KK and games where I wouldn't. In no circumstances as a CM though. Wide left, or inside left in a 4-5-1 or whatever only. My preference would be for a solid midfield two (Carsley and Douglas or Steven Reid when he's back fit, or maybe Joey O'Brien or Garvan can grow into the role in time) with any 4 of Doyle, Robbie, McGeady, Duff and Andy Reid on the offensive. If due to injury or whatever, midfield was Carsley and say Andy Reid, I'd be inclined to go with Kilbane on the left just to avoid us being overrun by tall, athletic & physical teams, which most international teams are these days.

**DotTV** · 24/10/2006, 3:15 PM

Eirebhoy,
the keeper should be an extra pair of eyes for the defence.he sees everythin that is going on and if he's a good talker he should tell them where to cover etc.
Obviously he can't lead the line like a centre half but this level of communication is essential.You always see Given talking, it's a mark of a good keeper but unfortunately Kenny doesn't seem to do it at all.He looks like he's on a different wavelength to the entire defence.