QuoteSomewhere in the Balkans then I would assume. Zagreb?
Derry and Monaco are indeed correct.
No Canadian team has ever won the MLS, to the best of my knowledge. Vaduz play in the second tier of Swiss football. They did play in the Swiss Super League for a season but got relegated.
TNS are an interesting one. When I was initially asked the question - albeit from the other perspective, where I was given the names of three clubs and asked what they have in common - they weren't included. I, perhaps incorrectly, assumed the three clubs mentioned were the only three clubs who shared this achievement in common as I've seen the question also turned on its head and rephrased elsewhere online. I don't see why TNS shouldn't be included though. They play in Oswestry, Shropshire and have won the Welsh Premier League on numerous occasions in the past few seasons. When did they move to Oswestry? 2003? I assume they played in Oswestry for at least one of their winning seasons.
Maybe the question could be better fine-tuned. The third team isn't actually mentioned in the Wiki page above - they currently play in the league of what is indisputably their own country - and I was uncertain as to whether they definitely merited inclusion when it was first posed to me, given the political circumstances under which they won their championship. Identifying them may depend on your definition of what constitutes a separate country. My historical understanding has them playing in what might have commonly been identified as a different country but the same jurisdiction.
Somewhere in the Balkans then I would assume. Zagreb?
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
Hardly be Cagliari of Sardinia or something similar to that?
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Oh wait, it's Kiev or Tbilisi isn't it? Champions of the Soviet League numerous times while their actual countries were sort of nominally self-governing (sort of, not really).
Author of Never Felt Better (History, Film Reviews).
The answer I'd had in mind isn't based in the Balkans, nor was the club ever under Soviet rule, but you're thinking along the right path.
Investigating further, I see Ararat Yerevan also won the old Soviet Top League, along with Kiev and Tblisi. With that in mind, however, I don't think there is any real distinction between the situation of the "correct answer" and the situations of clubs like Kiev, who would have fallen under Soviet jurisdiction when they won the Soviet league before going on to win the Ukranian league in their latter home country or entity of Ukraine after the break-up of the Soviet Union. As you also highlight, there are bound to be other similar examples in the Balkans due to the break-up of former Yugoslavia.
Anyway, the puzzle was originally posed to me as, "What do Derry City, AS Monaco and Rapid Vienna have in common?"
Rapid Vienna, of course, won the German championship in 1941 after the Anschluss between Germany and Austria after 1938. Having been annexed though, Austria was no longer officially recognised as an independent country at the time, as far as I understand, which is why I'm uncertain as to whether Rapid Vienna are a legitimate comparison to Derry and Monaco, who both won their titles whilst based in separate jurisdictions from those in which their leagues were administrated. Austria was simply a part of Germany in 1941, just as, say, Ukraine would have been a part of the Soviet Union when Kiev won their Soviet title.
Perhaps it is more correct to ask it in the above format, but then, the fact I was asking it in this thread subsequent to discussion about clubs based in one jurisdiction and playing in the league of another would have provided the obvious answer without requiring any further thought. I've also seen it phrased elsewhere online just as I posed it so assumed the original riddler had done his homework. Maybe I assumed wrong. Forgive me!
Here are 2 articles about champions from other countries.
Part I:
http://worldwidesoccerstories.blogsp...ther%20country
Part II:
http://worldwidesoccerstories.blogsp...ntry-part.html
Danny in 'Derry are not part of Ireland' shocker.Originally Posted by DannyInvincible
The answer I'd had in mind isn't based in the Balkans, nor was the club ever under Soviet rule, but you're thinking along the right path.
Investigating further, I see Ararat Yerevan also won the old Soviet Top League, along with Kiev and Tblisi. With that in mind, however, I don't think there is any real distinction between the situation of the "correct answer" and the situations of clubs like Kiev, who would have fallen under Soviet jurisdiction when they won the Soviet league before going on to win the Ukranian league in their latter home country or entity of Ukraine after the break-up of the Soviet Union. As you also highlight, there are bound to be other similar examples in the Balkans due to the break-up of former Yugoslavia.
Anyway, the puzzle was originally posed to me as, "What do Derry City, AS Monaco and Rapid Vienna have in common?"
Rapid Vienna, of course, won the German championship in 1941 after the Anschluss between Germany and Austria after 1938. Having been annexed though, Austria was no longer officially recognised as an independent country at the time, as far as I understand, which is why I'm uncertain as to whether Rapid Vienna are a legitimate comparison to Derry and Monaco, who both won their titles whilst based in separate jurisdictions from those in which their leagues were administrated. Austria was simply a part of Germany in 1941, just as, say, Ukraine would have been a part of the Soviet Union when Kiev won their Soviet title.
Perhaps it is more correct to ask it in the above format, but then, the fact I was asking it in this thread subsequent to discussion about clubs based in one jurisdiction and playing in the league of another would have provided the obvious answer without requiring any further thought. I've also seen it phrased elsewhere online just as I posed it so assumed the original riddler had done his homework. Maybe I assumed wrong. Forgive me!
Saarbrucken (of Germany) won Ligue 2 in France after WWII and then were denied promotion into Ligue 1.
The more examples there are, the more one can appreciate that there are no hard and fast rules re a team being legally bound to compete in the league of their political jurisdiction, that there are exceptions which have existed in the past or/and continue to exist, eg. Cardiff, Swansea, Wrexham, Derry etc and if the Catalans did vote for independence, it doesn't mean their football teams would necessarily have to exit from the Spanish league.
On the hand, I doubt if Newry (when they were alive) wanted to join the LOI, would be given permission to.
The conditions no longer exist for Derry to have to be in the LOI, but there's no one pushing them back to the IL. If they wanted to go back to the IL, I'm sure it would be possible, just a matter of the details. But they have squatters rights to be in the LOI.
I kinda like the flowing logic of it all, that Uefa embrace. Probably it's not perfect, but it would be detrimental if hypothetically a club like Newry could make a court challenge to be treated like Derry were treated when they applied to join the LOI, and be allowed to leave the IL to join the LOI structure.
Newry are back in the IL structure at the bottom levels.
https://kesslereffect.bandcamp.com/album/kepler - New music. It's not that bad.
Why do you say that? If the FAI were happy to take them and the IFA were happy to sanction it, on what grounds would UEFA/FIFA stand in the way?
The FAI couldn't be compelled by law to grant a particular club entry to the League of Ireland, could they?I kinda like the flowing logic of it all, that Uefa embrace. Probably it's not perfect, but it would be detrimental if hypothetically a club like Newry could make a court challenge to be treated like Derry were treated when they applied to join the LOI, and be allowed to leave the IL to join the LOI structure.
In my (not that mad) hypothetical scenario I assumed because the same circumstances didn't exist for Newry as they did for Derry, that the IL would not approve of an application from Newry to exit the IL. And i'm not au fait with the happiness factor of the IL to let Derry go. I guess they did let derry go in the end but happy to let them go or just put into a corner over the decision?
In this (mad) hypothetical scenario of mine, the FAI would be willing to take Newry, but the IL would not be willing to let Newry go. Therefore Newry would have to force the situation by appealing to the European courts to force Uefa to approve of a move under the freedom to trade anywhere in the EU and citing a precedent to back up their argument, demanding consistency from Uefa. You haven't heard of the challenges to Uefa's ffp in the European courts? citing precedents and consistency as support arguments?The FAI couldn't be compelled by law to grant a particular club entry to the League of Ireland, could they?
In the event of the IL willing to let Newry go and the LOI willing to receive, I'd imagine that Uefa would still need strong grounds to exist for the transfer, in order to get their approval. Derry had strong grounds for moving.
Just filling in time- it's the off season for teams who did not make it to the WC.
It would be interesting to know the criteria clubs must satisfy, if there are any strictly written down at all. Derry were accommodated due to a mix of political, cultural and financial factors - strong grounds, as you point out - but FIFA also seem happy to accommodate (or grant "special exemption" to) clubs whose mere financial interests would be disadvantaged by playing in the league of the political jurisdiction in which they're geographically based. What amount to strong grounds in the eyes of FIFA or UEFA, if such grounds are even a prerequisite for a transfer?
Last edited by DannyInvincible; 05/12/2013 at 5:30 PM.
The Basque Country are playing their annual post-Christmas friendly in Bilbao today with a team composed entirely of Primera División players.
http://www.insidespanishfootball.com...peru-friendly/
Basque won 6-0.
Aduriz (2), Agirretxe (2), Torres and Susaeta
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
They did indeed. Catalunya play Cape Verde today. This is some squad:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalon...#Current_squad
Aye. Sure is.
Imagine Spain without them...
DID YOU NOTICE A SIGN OUTSIDE MY HOUSE...?
Catalonia and Basque Country reignite call for independent national football identities
While Spain enjoy a winter break, the footballers of Catalonia and the Basque Country will remind their country of the strength possessed of players from the regions.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...dentities.html
Good on them.
More right than the glorified colonial theme parks being given 'status'...
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