QuoteHow can you make Drogs favourites? Just look at Talinn's record in Europe, plus Drogs poor form this season and lack of European experience.Originally Posted by JC_GUFC
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Shouldn't this thread be merged into the "eircom League in Europe - 2008" stickied thread?
How can you make Drogs favourites? Just look at Talinn's record in Europe, plus Drogs poor form this season and lack of European experience.
Last edited by DmanDmythDledge; 01/07/2008 at 9:38 PM.
The only answer is to back Talinn heavily if you disagree with him
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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I really know I shouldn't bite however I beg to differ... Bohs had beaten this side 3-0 over two legs two seasons previously. Drawn against them two years later we travelled to them for the first leg and got a credible 0-0 away leg result and we expected to beat them at home.
Problem for us was that the players thought all they had to do was turn up on the night. We made some brutal mistakes during the game and Talinn rode their luck. If I remember correctly it ended up being Kenny's last game in charge of Bohs because the manner in which we lost the game had been coming and was symptomatic of our teams performances to date in that season. This was down to the arrogance of the players in the squad at the time and something Kenny was not able to remedy - another story I know. in any case, IMO and in most bohs supporters opinion and to be fair I would suggest, to most independent patrons on the night, we beat ourselves that night and were by no means whatesoever torn apart by Tallinn.
I got no lips I got no bones where there
were eyes there's only space
I have.
we absolutely hammered on the Tallinn door in that first leg - had a lorryload of chances and just couldn't convert a single one.
I remember long periods of the second half when they couldn't get out of their own half
Kom Igen, FCK...
I can see where you're coming from, Pats have drawn a seeded side who are one point from the bottom of their league and have only won three matches in the last two seasons, yet they're seeded on the basis of performances by other teams in their country over the last five years.
However, there's no perfect system. Even in an open draw your chances of improving or even drawing a big team is slim. Look at this year's draw, statistically there was a 2 in 7 chance of one of the four "Irish" teams drawing Man City but none of them did.
And of course if we were to have club only co effs Man City and Olimps would have the same (and Pats would be ahead of both of them...)
The rankings are fine. There's no such thing as a perfect fool proof system
54,321 sold - wws will never die - ***
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New blog if anyone's interested - http://loihistory.wordpress.com/
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You sure about that, Bohs knocked them out.
Do you know that they lost 14 players that signed with other clubs, their best players went off to play in foreign leagues, like Latvia, Russia, Denmark, Finland, Norway and Slovenia.
Bohs beat them in 2001 (or so) and lost to them three years later (under a different name).
Was Pete Mahon's first games and Stephen Kenny's last. Was at the 3-1 home defeat and didn't think the Estonians were great, but their results since then can't be ignored.
3 great draws IMO - all interesting games difficult to predict.
Drogs got one of the 2 most difficult teams they could have drawn from the non-seeds - the other was BATE
Pats & Cork got 2 of the easiest from the seeds.
None of these will be easy games - all 6 teams will be hopeful of progression.
I don't think that any game will be won by more than 2 goals on agg. - best anyone could really hope for would be an away draw & home win.
IMO these teams are all at a similar level to our eL teams & IF we were to win all 3 ties, that would show a real progression in European terms. Realistically 2 wins 2 draws & 2 defeats would be our level IMO (or 1-4-1, either way one coefficiant point) - so I'm hoping for better!
Stephen Colbert?, is that you?!
Is she playing a concert at the same time Linfield will be there...they get everything!
I don't know if anyone answered you Stephen however,
(1) Drogheda Utd. will play CL home games at Dalymount Park (HoIF) in Dublin.
(2) Qualifying Round 1, at the beginning. There are 3 Qualifying rounds untill the Group Stages.
(3a) Levadia Talinn, Estonia (more talented sister to Flora and Gloria Talinn)
(3b) Drogheda Utd. were drawn out of the hat first but UEFA.com still have dates to be determined. http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl/index.html
The expected date of all ties is 1st leg 15/07/2008
2nd leg 23/07/2008
http://www.uefa.com/competitions/ucl...lts/index.html
The above www.UEFA.com website is recommended to familarise yourself with the goings on over here. In the top right-hand corner is a drop-down 'Competitions' list. (hours of fun).
" I'll go right up to here,
it can't possibly hurt.
All they will find is my
beer and my shirt."
Prediction time so...
I think that a realistic enough prediction is that we'll get 1.333 pts this year - 3 wins and 2 draws in total. As regards the overall coefficient, here's what I think.
Last year, Ireland was ranked 35th in Europe. Teams immediately ahead of us are Bosnia-Herzegovina, Moldova, Lithuania, Latvia, Finland and Hungary (because they're losing such a huge score)
By dropping such a measly coefficient from 5 years ago we automatically gain an advantage over Bosnia and Moldova - if we just match their results then we'll jump above them. This should be the minimum we can hope for this year - a jump to 33 in the ranking.
For the teams just above us then:
- Moldova will probably get through the CL (Kazakh team) but it's not a foregone conclusion at all. Nistru drew Hertha Berlin in the UC (no points there) and Nacia drew Borac (Serbia) so it'll be tough for them too. We should end up ahead of Moldova by a full coefficient point
- Bosnia-Herzegovnia have a tough CL draw (Albania) but they're the seeds so we can assume they'll get through. They have Vaduz and another Albanian team in the UC so they again should do ok out of that. On the other hand, Bosnian teams are the two lowest seeds so both Vaduz and Partizan Tirana (top half of unseeded) will fancy their chances much as we do against the Latvians. If we equal the Bosnian results we'll be ahead by the equivalent of 1 draw.
- Hungary go straight into Rd 2 of the CL but will play Fenerbahce there, and thus will probably pick up no points. They should get both teams through UC though, and will end up very close to us but just ahead.
- Lithuania will get full CL points (Santa Coloma - Andorra) and will win one (TNS) and lose one (Viking Stavanger) in the UC - they will still be ahead of us
- Latvia will go through in the CL (Llanelli) and will probably get through in the UC tie against Glentoran - Given that Latvia are the nearest team above us in the Northern part of the UC it is really important that Pats win both games and deny them points. Hopefully Glentoran can get a good result as well.
In summary I think the best we can do is end up 32nd - if Hungary has a nightmare season. Obviously if we get teams into the 2nd round and can pick up points there then it's a bonus and we may creep up a little further but if we get over 1 pt then I don't think we should complain too much. From a longer term point of view, we should hope that Latvia have a really bad season so that we can get as close as possible to them. It's funny that the nearby (geographically) leagues may have a large bearing on the outcome for us - obviously if TNS, Llanelli and Glentoran do well, it is of huge benefit to the LOI.
Foot.ie's entire existence is predicated on the average idiot's inability to ignore other idiots
Just to back-up what bigmac is saying, here's a link to Bert's page showing our (Country Ranking) starting position (33rd) before this years games:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~kassiesa/bert/...crank2009.html
What kind of draws did the Hungarian and Lithuanian clubs get? Could getting to 31st be done?
In the Champion's League Kaunas have drawn Santa Coloma of (no not Spain) Andorra.
The table Bert Kassel presents 'hides'* information about the potential of some leagues. Liechenstein had a poor total from last year, so they are due a respectable total this year again (upwards to 2.000).
Because Leagues like LIE,LTU, FIN and LAT tend to be in the North Europe group the LoI need to get above one or two of them again because it will help the UEFA Cup representatives been seeded. Hungary and Moldova are less important to better, but it will show signs of progress if we do.
I have a question for the Bert Kassel lovers. Would you be happy with the LoI been at a position in the table where they are seeded in the UEFA CUP and CL q1 rd. clubs progress in the annual tournaments, showing perception of success, knocking on the door of groups (CL and UEFA) but never making the breakthrough. But just because of their advantage in the early rd. they are able to show success there?
*Hides is the wrong word, I think I mean Conceal.
" I'll go right up to here,
it can't possibly hurt.
All they will find is my
beer and my shirt."
See above; Hungarian clubs got manageable ties in the UC (Zestaponi and Karagandy) but will be unseeded in R2 of the CL.
Lithuania have 2 easy draws and one v tough one.
31st would only be possible if we had a season similar to the one in 06/07 which is unlikely given Drogs' tough first round draw and mission impossible reward for winning it.
Foot.ie's entire existence is predicated on the average idiot's inability to ignore other idiots
It'd be hard to complain about it to be honest. I think I'd be happy to be at a stage where it would be more of a surprise to go out in the first round than to progress. I'd like to see the current attitude towards the first round moved to the second round whereby a good draw is what we're looking for first and foremost.
I'm under no illusions about group stages of UC, given that the lowest 10 seeds in the previous round last year included Galatasaray, Fiorentina, Everton, Atletico Madrid and Red Star Belgrade. To beat one of these teams would be a pretty exceptional result.
In the CL, it may actually be easier due to the timing of the draw. By beating a good team in the 2nd QR, you then get their coefficient in the next draw and could thus end up playing a more beatable team. As an example -
- Last year, Tampere from Finland beat Murata of San Marino in R1 They then beat Levski Sofia in the 2nd QR and hence were seeded in the 3rd round. They drew Rosenberg there and went out, but had they got a more favourable draw - eg BATE of Belarus - they'd have had a really good shot at it
In summary, I'd be happy with steady progress. In a year or two I would hope that all teams will be seeded and they'll each be expecting to progress through to the next round. Ideally, by the time we lose the big coefficient year, we'll be in a position where our 4 (by then) European clubs will be picking up 2 wins each to start with and we won't be worried about falling back in the rankings.
Foot.ie's entire existence is predicated on the average idiot's inability to ignore other idiots
Incidentally (nope, I'm not getting any work done today), it is the 2007 rankings that decided our European spots for this year, not last years rankings - obviously this is so that leagues will no before they begin how many European spots are on offer (with the exception of fair play). Therefore the 2008 ranking of 35th is what will dictate our European qualifiers at the end of this season for the 2009/2010 season.
The Champions will therefore go into QR1 of the CL and by my calculations will probably not be seeded. This of course will depend on the coefficient at the end of this year, but I think that our representatives will end up the top unseeded team.
With the new format Uefa Cup, the Cup winners will go into QR2 and the 2nd and 3rd placed teams will go into QR1. By my calculations, both teams in QR1 will be seeded, and the cup winners may just about be seeded - it depends on the regional split and fair play winners I think.
Foot.ie's entire existence is predicated on the average idiot's inability to ignore other idiots
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