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Thread: Foot.ie Rules & FAQ

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    Director dahamsta's Avatar
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    Foot.ie Rules & FAQ

    The rules have moved here, the FAQ here. Comments and suggestions welcome below.
    Last edited by dahamsta; 13/05/2009 at 11:09 AM.

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    Whats a 'role' account?

    One rule I would like, but probably impossible to implement is - These are discussion forums, so if you want to discuss something, give your reasons. If you agree/disagree with something, give your reasoning as to why, not just one/two word posts like "I agree", or "Your wrong". These posts seem to be done to boost post count.

    Also, text speak should be banned (within reason).

    Thats my 2 cents worth anyways
    If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.

  3. #3
    thecorner
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary
    Whats a 'role' account?


    im presuming shedend.com, fourfiveone etc...


    also grerat rule there gary about the text speak. so fu@king annoying to read

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    Director dahamsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary
    Whats a 'role' account?
    Sorry, nerd speak: Like thecorner suggests, it's accounts like FourFiveOne, flansiro.net, inthered.org and TheShed.com, that are usually used to represent a website or fanzine. In fact from a quick search earlier today, that would be most of them right there. I've discussed this already with one of the FourFiveOne people and they argue that they prefer to keep it impersonal, but I'm left asking why. I'm also regularly accused of bias by members that have been ticked off for duplicate accounts, and they have a point.

    adam

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    Quote Originally Posted by dahamsta
    Sorry, nerd speak: Like thecorner suggests, it's accounts like FourFiveOne, flansiro.net, inthered.org and TheShed.com, that are usually used to represent a website or fanzine. In fact from a quick search earlier today, that would be most of them right there. I've discussed this already with one of the FourFiveOne people and they argue that they prefer to keep it impersonal, but I'm left asking why. I'm also regularly accused of bias by members that have been ticked off for duplicate accounts, and they have a point.

    adam
    problem there is, if you want to post your own opinion, and then FourFiveOne (as an example) wants to make an announcement, then things get tricky. Reason being, of you have more than one person involved, and they disagree over another topic- how does thatwork? I think there's no major problem with these accounts, as long as they are only used for announcements.

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    Which to be fair, FFO is only used for announcements, or asking for suggestions.
    If at first you don't succeed, redefine success.

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    Seasoned Pro Colm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Éanna
    problem there is, if you want to post your own opinion, and then FourFiveOne (as an example) wants to make an announcement, then things get tricky. Reason being, of you have more than one person involved, and they disagree over another topic- how does thatwork? I think there's no major problem with these accounts, as long as they are only used for announcements.
    Yeah I think you're spot on there.
    I think organisations like FourFiveOne, CCOSC, Commandos 84, Shedend.com, SRFC Ultras, SEI and so on should be allowed to have accounts if they so wish as they are not stating indivual opinions but more making announcements on behalf of their members/committees and these accounts are needed for that kind of thing imo.
    I think the best solution would be that any organisation which is affiliated with an Eircom League club should be allowed have an account but any other non-el organisations should not.
    Champions!

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    Director dahamsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Éanna
    problem there is, if you want to post your own opinion, and then FourFiveOne (as an example) wants to make an announcement, then things get tricky. Reason being, of you have more than one person involved, and they disagree over another topic- how does thatwork?
    It works by the person saying "I'm posting this on behalf of FourFiveOne" or "This is my personal opinion." How difficult is that? This is what I don't get, both myself Joe "own" Foot.ie to all intents and purposes, and people like yourself have a big part to play too, but we don't use a Foot.ie account to post announcements, do we? If we don't need one, why does FourFiveOne? Is there something embarassing about being involved with FFO? Is there some reason for hiding behind a role account? (I'm just extending the example, not picking on FFO here.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Colm
    I think the best solution would be that any organisation which is affiliated with an Eircom League club should be allowed have an account but any other non-el organisations should not.
    I can tell you right here and right now that's not going to happen anyway Colm, for the simple reason that there's no way of authenticating who is and isn't "affiliated" with a club without spending (serious) money on authentication procedures. I don't even know who's involved in FFO bar one person ffs, never mind those other ones you mentioned; some of whom are born troublemakers, I might add.

    adam
    Last edited by dahamsta; 08/02/2005 at 7:53 PM.

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    Seasoned Pro Colm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahamsta
    It works by the person saying "I'm posting this on behalf of FourFiveOne" or "This is my personal opinion." How difficult is that?
    It won't work Adam.
    Not everyone knows who exactly is or is not involved in FFO or any other organisation. Therefore any clown could just say "I'm posting this on behalf of FourFiveOne" or "I'm posting this on behalf of the Supporters Club" and some people are bound to believe it even if it's not true. Whereas if there is a specific account only those with access to the password can post on behalf of whatever organisation it is.

    I think if you get rid of these 'role accounts', you putting a lot more workload on yourself and the mods while bringing hassle on the organisations concerned because you are leaving the system wide open for anyone to abuse.

    Quote Originally Posted by dahamsta

    I can tell you right here and right now that's not going to happen anyway Colm, for the simple reason that there's no way of authenticating who is and isn't "affiliated" with a club without spending (serious) money on authentication procedures. I don't even know who's involved in FFO bar one person ffs, never mind those other ones you mentioned; some of whom are born troublemakers, I might add.

    adam
    Ok I know what you're saying but surely you get my drift i.e. that any genuine organisations who you can be sure are not out to cause trouble should be allowed to have an account.
    Last edited by dahamsta; 10/04/2009 at 12:32 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by dahamsta
    It works by the person saying "I'm posting this on behalf of FourFiveOne" or "This is my personal opinion."
    I'm with colm on this. It wouldn't work by posting things like that, because people will ignore them when it suits them. If these things are just used for announcements, I think its ok.

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    Director dahamsta's Avatar
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    Sorry lads, this logic still isn't working for me. The FFO account was allowed to exist - much to my annoyance - for the simple reason that it was set up by an implicitly trusted user. The account was built on trust, which is exactly the same as would happen with any TD&H posting on behalf of an org. In order to become trusted, they have to build a reputation.

    Should I let someone sign up with ShelsUnofficialFanClub? How do I know who they are? What if someone calls ShelsFan says they're ok? How do I know who ShelsFan is? What happens when somone calling themselves ShelsUnofficialFanClub comes along and says the current ShelsUnofficialFanClub is a fraud, and they're the real ShelsUnofficialFanClub?

    Or how about a Real World[TM] example: ShedEnd.com is a user who's been banned from both Foot.ie and CorkCityFC.com, rather ironically for spamming. Why should they get the benefit of a role handle; or worse, free advertising from having their domain in their handle? And if not them, why anyone else?

    And one final thing: Who tracks these role accounts with multiple users? What happens if one of the people using it decides to go all "mystery user" on your ass, maybe starts posting your PM's on corkciytfc.ie, what are you going to do about that? What if it gets legal, if someones is libelled?

    adam
    Last edited by dahamsta; 08/02/2005 at 8:23 PM.

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    Director dahamsta's Avatar
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    Back on topic, this is where we were. If no-one's going to rebut this...

    Quote Originally Posted by dahamsta
    Sorry lads, this logic still isn't working for me. The FFO account was allowed to exist - much to my annoyance - for the simple reason that it was set up by an implicitly trusted user. The account was built on trust, which is exactly the same as would happen with any TD&H posting on behalf of an org. In order to become trusted, they have to build a reputation.

    Should I let someone sign up with ShelsUnofficialFanClub? How do I know who they are? What if someone calls ShelsFan says they're ok? How do I know who ShelsFan is? What happens when somone calling themselves ShelsUnofficialFanClub comes along and says the current ShelsUnofficialFanClub is a fraud, and they're the real ShelsUnofficialFanClub?

    [Snipped to stop him butting in again.]

    And one final thing: Who tracks these role accounts with multiple users? What happens if one of the people using it decides to go all "mystery user" on your ass, maybe starts posting your PM's on corkciytfc.ie, what are you going to do about that? What if it gets legal, if someones is libelled?

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    I dunno if it'll work but for instance if say corkcityfc.ie wanted to sign up as user i would make him/her provide a valid mail address at that domain? I know not going to work for offline clubs & stuff but its an option...?

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    Director dahamsta's Avatar
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    But why should they have a role account? This is what I don't understand. I haven't been given one valid reason in this discussion; or rather several people have given me reasons, but none of them have responded when I've refuted them.

    Here's another issue: I don't know who in this thread is posting in defense of FFO because they run FFO, because I only know one person involved. This kind of confusion is precisely the reason I banned dupes in the first place.

    adam

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    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    theres no justification for "role" accounts. everyone knows who writes or runs what. although in my case I was "shedend.com" because i couldnt think of anything better, everyone knew who it was. everyone knows who FFO are so if they happen to post under aFace or whatever then what difference does it make? Everyone knew who CorkCityFC.ie were when they registered.

    If people are dead set on using the board for annoucements, why not have one sticky thread for user annoucements? just a suggestion. it can be moderated to not allow discussion and maybe a quota of annoucements for any group/user.
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    Seasoned Pro Colm's Avatar
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    What's actually wrong with these 'role accounts' though? How have they ever been abused in the past? I just can't see how it effects you or the site if they are there and not doing any harm.

    I know you're saying they're dupes Adam but they're not really as they belong to an organisation and are not used for posting personal opinions.
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    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colm
    I know you're saying they're dupes Adam but they're not really as they belong to an organisation and are not used for posting personal opinions.
    tell that to that rogue ShedEnd.com

    with a large, popular site like this, Colm, the positon as to rules has to be pretty clear. either you're allowed advertise & give constant updates or you're not. Adam has chosen not, well within his rights.
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    Capped Player Schumi's Avatar
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    Just to clarify, is it allowed for people to advertise fanzines or the like from the normal accounts? I.e. if I want to announce a new issue of STIG, is that OK?
    We're not arrogant, we're just better.

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    Seasoned Pro GavinZac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Schumi
    Just to clarify, is it allowed for people to advertise fanzines or the like from the normal accounts? I.e. if I want to announce a new issue of STIG, is that OK?
    as far as i can tell from what adam has said to me publicly and privately, no. im open to correction though.
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    Director dahamsta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colm
    What's actually wrong with these 'role accounts' though? How have they ever been abused in the past?
    I've deleted dozens of role accounts set up to advertise websites, products, tickets, travel, and more; some of them footie related, some of them not. FFO is the exception rather than the rule. And I don't like exceptions, they're untidy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Schumi
    Just to clarify, is it allowed for people to advertise fanzines or the like from the normal accounts? I.e. if I want to announce a new issue of STIG, is that OK?
    My take on this is that announcements should be routed through mods, so they don't appear too often and only non-commercial stuff gets through. Your own situation creates a dilemma though, since you're a mod yourself. Perhaps mods should route their announcements up the chain?

    I hate to pull the old "we do this as a service to the community" rabbit out of the hat again, but as of now that's ultimately still the case -- revenues for the site for it's entire lifetime amount to a grand total of about €250*; whereas expenses would amount to close to a thousand, and that doesn't even include hosting and bandwidth (it uses spare capacity on my servers, but that's still capacity). So it's not commercial, but it's not free ads either.

    adam

    * $100 from Google last year; another $100 I haven't received yet; a couple of books from my Amazon wish list, generously donated by Foot.ie users; and an amazingly generous surprise donation of €50 last week, from a gentleman who's never even posted on Foot.ie.
    Last edited by dahamsta; 10/04/2009 at 12:34 AM.

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