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Thread: New Champions League format proposal

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    New Champions League format proposal

    http://football.uk.reuters.com/europ...s/L2660231.php

    BRUSSELS, Nov 26 (Reuters) - The fourth-placed teams in England, Spain and Italy will face a tougher route into the lucrative group stage of the Champions League as part of a reform of the competition to be approved by UEFA on Friday.
    Under the proposals, third-placed teams in Europe's three top leagues -- which previously entered in the final qualifying round -- will now get automatic entry into the money-spinning group stage, a senior UEFA official told Reuters on Monday.
    But in return the fourth-placed sides, which until now were also given qualifying berths and seeded against clubs from lesser nations, will be pitted against each other along with five clubs of a similar size in a separate qualifying phase.
    "The clubs will come from the eight leagues ranked highest according to our (coefficient) rankings and will play for four group phase places," the official said.
    Based on current UEFA rankings, France, Germany, Portugal, Romania and Netherlands make up the top eight countries along with England, Spain and Italy.
    "The lesser-known and medium-sized clubs will fight it out in a separate phase based on the traditional three qualifying rounds with six group spots on offer for them," the official added
    from what i can gather from that is that the irish team will be battling it out for one of six champions league slots with team 39 other national champions ranked from 14th country and down [edit - no i've idea which teams/countries theyre gonna face]
    Last edited by eekers; 27/11/2007 at 12:31 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eekers View Post
    http://football.uk.reuters.com/europ...s/L2660231.php



    from what i can gather from that is that the irish team will be battling it out for one of six champions league slots with team 39 other national champions ranked from 14th country and down
    Interesting. May give an Irish team a better chance of getting into the Group Stages. Will help IMO

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    i'm not sure it increases the automatically qualifying teamform 16 to 22 and reserves another 8 spots for big teams from the top 8 countries. leaving 6 spots for the rest of europe!

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    I think it is good to let the lesser leagues got some spotlight in Europe, can only do those leagues the power of good.

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    Cant see how regular beatings in the Champions League group stage is going to help teams from lesser leagues progress. The Champions League should be graded accordingly to the strength of the country and these lesser leagues should progress from there. If Drogheda play in the Champions League next season, can you honestly see them competing against any team.

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    Quote Originally Posted by viagogo View Post
    Cant see how regular beatings in the Champions League group stage is going to help teams from lesser leagues progress. The Champions League should be graded accordingly to the strength of the country and these lesser leagues should progress from there. If Drogheda play in the Champions League next season, can you honestly see them competing against any team.
    No you cant but you cant run before you can walk. Its one step at a time. If Irish teams continually get into the gropus then experience and profile for the league will come with it, look at Rosenborg, Norwegian league was pretty much the same as what we're in now about 7 years ago but through continuous qualification, they are getting better

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    Yeah, but they went through the present system which meant 3 matches to get to the group stage. We would go from 1st/2nd stage knockout straight to the group stage. An gigantic gap.

    Also, to raise the profile of the league is to raise the standard of all teams in the league and getting better facilities. Which would mean more work at domestic level and this would eventually transfer to European level.

    Another point is if we had a team in next seasons Champions League, where would the games be played? The RDS!

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    Quote Originally Posted by viagogo View Post
    Yeah, but they went through the present system which meant 3 matches to get to the group stage. We would go from 1st/2nd stage knockout straight to the group stage. An gigantic gap.

    Also, to raise the profile of the league is to raise the standard of all teams in the league and getting better facilities. Which would mean more work at domestic level and this would eventually transfer to European level.

    Another point is if we had a team in next seasons Champions League, where would the games be played? The RDS!
    We will still have to play 3 rounds to get there. JUst hopefully against slightly weaker teams.

    Yes the team would be hammered the first year, but the 10million they got for reaching the group stage would help them better prepare for the next season and so on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by City till I Die View Post
    , look at Rosenborg, Norwegian league was pretty much the same as what we're in now about 7 years ago but through continuous qualification, they are getting better
    Not disputing your basic point, but in fairness I think it's a bit longer than that since the Norwegian league was at our level. Rosenberg have been making the group stages for about ten years if I'm not mistaken.
    Out for a spell, got neglected, lay on the bench unselected.

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    i think (90% sure) the 46 teams competing for 6 qualifying spots will be the champions of countries 14-53 and 2nd place teams from countries 9-15

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    Quote Originally Posted by micls View Post
    Yes the team would be hammered the first year, but the 10million they got for reaching the group stage would help them better prepare for the next season and so on.
    Given the limited funds on which eL clubs operate,is anybody else concerned that the 10 million would enable that team to reach a level which no other eL team could match, thus leading them to be Champions league candidates almost every season?

    I'm out of the loop in terms of what clubs spend in a year, but it seems to me that 10 million would give the recipient a vast advantage in the eL.

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    Quote Originally Posted by osarusan View Post
    Given the limited funds on which eL clubs operate,is anybody else concerned that the 10 million would enable that team to reach a level which no other eL team could match, thus leading them to be Champions league candidates almost every season?

    I'm out of the loop in terms of what clubs spend in a year, but it seems to me that 10 million would give the recipient a vast advantage in the eL.
    Think about it along these lines.

    Football is a business.

    Match day tickets is the basic product.

    The first Irish club to gain entry to the Champions League will gain first mover advantages.

    Champions League football is a niche product segment that may generate extra product sales. In essence, Champions League football is the premium product extension of the match day ticket. As the first Irish club to enter the premium segment of the market, it is likely that this movement will attract the interest of the Irish sporting public - the consumer. What value the consumer is willing to place on the premium product offering will ultimately determine the market value of the club's first mover advantage.

    If the market value is positive, other clubs will seek to piggyback this first mover advantage. They'll want Champions League football as well. Their consumers will too. This will drive other market leading clubs to enter the premium segment of the market as not to do so will ultimately damage their basic product sales.

    If the Irish consumer is willing to purchase the premium product experience, it can be hoped that this purchasing pattern will generate product and brand loyalty. It's up to the individual club to market itself correctly to retain and attract new customers.

    The Norwegian League is a perfect example.

    Rosenborg's entry into the Champions League gave them a first-mover and competitive advantage on the Norwegian market. Other clubs have since piggybacked the Rosenborg example which in turn as raised the quality of the basic product offering in Norway.

    Rosenborg's product innovation was needed to drive growth and the quality of the product offering on the Norwegian market. There was an underlining consumer demand for premium-positioned products on the Norwegian market and Norwegian clubs have supplied this demand. They have also been successful in evolving the basic product offering of a match day ticket to a match day ticket experience - consumers are willing to purchase the basic product offering as they now perceive it as a high quality product.

    As in the case of Rosenborg, one club will dominate Irish football in the short-to-medium term. However product innovation is needed to drive value in the Irish football market. Without it, product quality will not improve and ultimately, long-term, all products on the market will see a quality improvement.

    Simple really .

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifk101 View Post
    Think about it along these lines.

    Football is a business.

    Match day tickets is the basic product.

    The first Irish club to gain entry to the Champions League will gain first mover advantages.

    Champions League football is a niche product segment that may generate extra product sales. In essence, Champions League football is the premium product extension of the match day ticket. As the first Irish club to enter the premium segment of the market, it is likely that this movement will attract the interest of the Irish sporting public - the consumer. What value the consumer is willing to place on the premium product offering will ultimately determine the market value of the club's first mover advantage.

    If the market value is positive, other clubs will seek to piggyback this first mover advantage. They'll want Champions League football as well. Their consumers will too. This will drive other market leading clubs to enter the premium segment of the market as not to do so will ultimately damage their basic product sales.

    If the Irish consumer is willing to purchase the premium product experience, it can be hoped that this purchasing pattern will generate product and brand loyalty. It's up to the individual club to market itself correctly to retain and attract new customers.

    The Norwegian League is a perfect example.

    Rosenborg's entry into the Champions League gave them a first-mover and competitive advantage on the Norwegian market. Other clubs have since piggybacked the Rosenborg example which in turn as raised the quality of the basic product offering in Norway.

    Rosenborg's product innovation was needed to drive growth and the quality of the product offering on the Norwegian market. There was an underlining consumer demand for premium-positioned products on the Norwegian market and Norwegian clubs have supplied this demand. They have also been successful in evolving the basic product offering of a match day ticket to a match day ticket experience - consumers are willing to purchase the basic product offering as they now perceive it as a high quality product.

    As in the case of Rosenborg, one club will dominate Irish football in the short-to-medium term. However product innovation is needed to drive value in the Irish football market. Without it, product quality will not improve and ultimately, long-term, all products on the market will see a quality improvement.

    Simple really .
    I feel sick.

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    One club walking the league nearly every year, a la Rosenborg is just what the league needs alright. The fact that our league is generally competitive is one of the main selling points - gambling that European Football will prove the key to a successful league is no different from gambling on summer football, 10 team premier etc.

    There is no short term fix, it has to be done on the basis of a sustainable league, with decent facilities that will slowly grow. Not some european pipedream which will only really benefit one club (i.e. whoever gets there first).
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

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    2007 Brann
    2006 Rosenborg
    2005 Vålerenga
    2004 Rosenborg
    2003 Rosenborg
    2002 Rosenborg
    2001 Rosenborg
    2000 Rosenborg
    1999 Rosenborg
    1998 Rosenborg
    1997 Rosenborg
    1996 Rosenborg
    1995 Rosenborg
    1994 Rosenborg
    1993 Rosenborg
    1992 Rosenborg
    Just as well you were joking ifk!

    Admittedly, Rosenborg were already the dominant club in Norway, but CL money just cemented that.

    Seriously, this kind of situation could easily happen in Ireland, as the first club to qualify will surely get there again.
    Last edited by osarusan; 29/11/2007 at 4:38 PM.

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    They only haven't won the league when they've been hit with resignations, and then made strange choices of replacements/structures... When they've had stable management, they've won the league.
    If you attack me with stupidity, I'll be forced to defend myself with sarcasm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ifk101 View Post
    Think about it along these lines.

    Football is a business.

    Match day tickets is the basic product.

    The first Irish club to gain entry to the Champions League will gain first mover advantages.

    Champions League football is a niche product segment that may generate extra product sales. In essence, Champions League football is the premium product extension of the match day ticket. As the first Irish club to enter the premium segment of the market, it is likely that this movement will attract the interest of the Irish sporting public - the consumer. What value the consumer is willing to place on the premium product offering will ultimately determine the market value of the club's first mover advantage.

    If the market value is positive, other clubs will seek to piggyback this first mover advantage. They'll want Champions League football as well. Their consumers will too. This will drive other market leading clubs to enter the premium segment of the market as not to do so will ultimately damage their basic product sales.

    If the Irish consumer is willing to purchase the premium product experience, it can be hoped that this purchasing pattern will generate product and brand loyalty. It's up to the individual club to market itself correctly to retain and attract new customers.

    The Norwegian League is a perfect example.

    Rosenborg's entry into the Champions League gave them a first-mover and competitive advantage on the Norwegian market. Other clubs have since piggybacked the Rosenborg example which in turn as raised the quality of the basic product offering in Norway.

    Rosenborg's product innovation was needed to drive growth and the quality of the product offering on the Norwegian market. There was an underlining consumer demand for premium-positioned products on the Norwegian market and Norwegian clubs have supplied this demand. They have also been successful in evolving the basic product offering of a match day ticket to a match day ticket experience - consumers are willing to purchase the basic product offering as they now perceive it as a high quality product.

    As in the case of Rosenborg, one club will dominate Irish football in the short-to-medium term. However product innovation is needed to drive value in the Irish football market. Without it, product quality will not improve and ultimately, long-term, all products on the market will see a quality improvement.

    Simple really .
    You're trying to over-complicate and play science with something that is fundamentally very simple.

    It's not about 'the product', match tickets etc. It's about the vast sum that will be handed to the first Irish club to make the Champions League group stages. A sum divorced from the size of their fan-base, the size/quality of their stadium, or the ability of their team. This is where your 'free market' analogy collapses. It would be the equivalent of massive state intervention into an otherwise free-market.

    Giving a sum like €10m to a single EL team will completely subvert the normal rules of financial practise (i.e. that your outgoings should reflect your earnings, which are a reflection of your popularity). Instead - it will enable a team to build a huge dominance, independent or even despite of its level of public popularity (Shelbourne anyone...?). If any team in the EL is handed €10m, unless they are run by complete fcukwits they will dominate the league for the forseeable future. Look at what Shels did with about a tenth of that figure !

    The only way that dominance will be broken is if they then fcuk up (a la Rosenborg twice in 15 years) or if other clubs get a vast sum of money given to them. I believe this is extremely unlikely - no right-thinking business person would give a side in Ireland €10m PER YEAR in the hope of breaking the existing dominance of a team that is being given that amount every year by a third party.

    The way to improve our league is through incremental improvement - possibly alied with private investment, but not where it creates an unsustainable financial bubble, and not of a level so huge as to create a massive gulf. A rising tide may lift all boats - but having only one club on the crest of a financial tsunami will oly result in the other clubs getting left far behind in their wake.
    Last edited by dcfcsteve; 29/11/2007 at 4:36 PM.

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    lads, not too much has been said about who the 6 40 lowest ranked countries could be in these proposals. Surely though it augurs well for helping teams from the EL reach the golden trail.....
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    lads, not too much has been said about who the 6 40 lowest ranked countries could be in these proposals. Surely though it augurs well for helping teams from the EL reach the golden trail.....

    Btw, i reckon qualifying for europe also gives them an advantage on tranfers and attracting players that would normally ony look at scotland/england and also young talent from going overseas at too early an age. IN fact I would put my house on it that if and when a team qualifies for the CL it will be of huge benefit to THE league. In fact i would put my flat on it.
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    Also look at Scotland.The money of Celtic and Rangers filters down into the rest of the league through transfers and tickets for the 'big matches'.

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