eL and opinions about it

**Dodge** · 20/11/2007, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by John83

Damn you, and your children, and your children's children. For one month.

I should've pointed out I'm going in support of the Glazer's bid to destroy our arch enemy The Premiership...

I'm certainly not going to support any of that foreign muck

**osarusan** · 20/11/2007, 2:06 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

I'm not necessarily sure they are valid reasons and I don't think any kind of "attitude" genuinely exists outside the reality of internet forums. It's a pure and utter cop out anyway. The debate and slagging of out of towners at United, Liverpool etc has been going on since the early 90's (actually back to the 60's at United tbh), the few games a season crowd are generally despised by the hardcore, yet it doesn't stop the same people who use the "attitude of league of Ireland fans" paying their sky sports sub, or their 5 trips a season, or buying a kit. It's a nonsense.

I meant that the examples you gave are "valid" examples of what people say, I didn't mean to validate the reasons themselves. It wasn't clear, I see that now.

**John83** · 20/11/2007, 2:09 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I should've pointed out I'm going in support of the Glazer's bid to destroy our arch enemy The Premiership...

I'm certainly not going to support any of that foreign muck

Ah, well, in that case. Mi casa es tu casa amigo.

**osarusan** · 20/11/2007, 2:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

I have no hesitation in saying people who go to watch their team are far better fans than those who watch their team on TV.

But, when trying to convince "tv-football" fans to become "go-to-the-game-fans", the above quote may not be the most successful marketing tool.

**Macy** · 20/11/2007, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

But, when trying to convince "tv-football" fans to become "go-to-the-game-fans", the above quote may not be the most successful marketing tool.

He's saying it on here, not to them. If they go to a supporter of the club they're watching on TV they'd get the same view, but it doesn't stop them watching the club on TV or going to a few games.

**Dodge** · 20/11/2007, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

He's saying it on here, not to them. If they go to a supporter of the club they're watching on TV they'd get the same view, but it doesn't stop them watching the club on TV or going to a few games.

Spot on.

Its not an Irish phenomenon either. Ask Wrexham fans what they think of Liverpool fans from Wrexham or Swindon fans what they think of Chelsea fans from Swindon.

**osarusan** · 20/11/2007, 2:41 PM

Originally Posted by Macy

He's saying it on here, not to them. If they go to a supporter of the club they're watching on TV they'd get the same view, but it doesn't stop them watching the club on TV or going to a few games.

I fully agree with this. But my original point was about increasing attendances. Man United won't ever know that...lets say... 4-500 potential fans lost interest because the locals are not so keen on their presence. eL clubs need those 4-500 far more than any Premiership club does. (And we are always talking about premiership clubs, or Celtic, I think).

An Arsenal fan who attitude is along the lines of "Mate, I'm a better fan than you because I'm from here and I watch all the games, whereas you watch them on TV and come here 3/4 times a season. You're a plastic supporter who has no idea of what real football is. Now **** off back to Ireland" is very different from a fan of an eL team saying basically the same thing, while still trying to attract that kind of person as a fan.

Again, I know this doesn't happen in the eL grounds themselves, but it does happen. And again, I'm not trying to exaggerate its role in low attendances, but it does have an effect.

**Dodge** · 20/11/2007, 2:54 PM

Originally Posted by osarusan

Again, I know this doesn't happen in the eL grounds themselves, but it does happen. And again, I'm not trying to exaggerate its role in low attendances, but it does have an effect.

The point is that the above outburst won't stop that guy being an Arsenal supporter but if he got it from an LOI fan he would use it as an excuse not to go to a LOI game.

**anto1208** · 20/11/2007, 2:58 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

The point is that the above outburst won't stop that guy being an Arsenal supporter but if he got it from an LOI fan he would use it as an excuse not to go to a LOI game.

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.

**osarusan** · 20/11/2007, 3:02 PM

Originally Posted by Dodge

The point is that the above outburst won't stop that guy being an Arsenal supporter but if he got it from an LOI fan he would use it as an excuse not to go to a LOI game.

But the difference is that in the first instance, he already considers himself a fan of that club, and has some affiliation (real or imagined) which ties him to the club.

In the second, we are talking about people we are trying to attract to the game, not existing fans. People with no affiliation are likely to be more "insulted".

Originally Posted by anto1208

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.

Anto................thanks. Dodge, Macy and I have been trying to come to some resolution..................you've solved it in a single eloquent sentence.

I would say that your attitude has changed pretty quickly for one who spent 15 years as a volunteer for an eL club.

**micls** · 20/11/2007, 3:06 PM

Originally Posted by anto1208

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.

Maybe. Why cant they do both though? For example would you or other people from Limerick support Kilkenny in hurling? After all they are a better team.

**paul_oshea** · 20/11/2007, 3:12 PM

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.

Ya, im afraid if I asked any of my mates thats exactly what they would say too. Whatever ye say about improved standards etc, until they get to a group stage of uefa or CL then they will always think that, and in fairness they are probably right, bar mayeb the unluckiness ( if ye want to call it that ) of the seedings etc....

**osarusan** · 20/11/2007, 3:16 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

Ya, im afraid if I asked any of my mates thats exactly what they would say too. Whatever ye say about improved standards etc, until they get to a group stage of uefa or CL then they will always think that, and in fairness they are probably right, bar mayeb the unluckiness ( if ye want to call it that ) of the seedings etc....

but why do fans of....lets say....Sunderland and Spurs...have such disagreements, if they are only interested in watching good football. Why aren't they Barcelona or Real Madrid fans?

There is more to it than just wanting to watch good football. People want to "belong" to something, to feel part of it.

**Macy** · 20/11/2007, 3:19 PM

Originally Posted by anto1208

Maybe they just prefer to watch good football , why should some one watch crap just because the team is from the same town they live in.

Then you'll never truely understand what a club means to a born and bred local fan, and how it reflects their identity.

Originally Posted by paul oshea

Ya, im afraid if I asked any of my mates thats exactly what they would say too. Whatever ye say about improved standards etc, until they get to a group stage of uefa or CL then they will always think that, and in fairness they are probably right, bar mayeb the unluckiness ( if ye want to call it that ) of the seedings etc....

And so the circle is complete

**paul_oshea** · 20/11/2007, 3:38 PM

Osasuran, I would say that its the level, though I know a lot of lads who would watch the local junior side but not EL side so you do have a point, i just think its a smaller percentage of those you relate too. Buts its definitely a certain level. Why dont they watch Division 1 or whatever its called and they will answer with the same question. Why dont they watch wigan v bolton , and they will tell ye the same thing. YOu will always have many neutrals who would watch a game like chelsea v united etc....

**Dodge** · 20/11/2007, 3:49 PM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

YOu will always have many neutrals who would watch a game like chelsea v united etc....

Thats not really relevant as you'll find the vast majority of LOI fans will watch that game (and most will watch any football at all)

People who supposedly invest so mcuh emotions in their British team couldn't possibly understand what its really like to follow a team.

Can you give me one reason why a bloke from Dublin should choose to be a Chelseas fan?

**osarusan** · 20/11/2007, 10:22 PM

well, moving it to the eL forum kind of killed it, huh?

**Dodge** · 20/11/2007, 10:31 PM

Or maybe people just can't answer my question?

**TheBoss** · 20/11/2007, 10:35 PM

Do any of you think, if the stadiums were of the highest order in terms facilities and they were all seater stadiums, maybe 5-10 thousand capacity, would that make more fans go to the games ?