Paul McShane

**DmanDmythDledge** · 25/11/2007, 9:00 PM

Now that Andy O'Brien is playing regularly again he and Dunne should be our first choice centre backs.

I think that there is a bit of an overreaction after McShane's performance yesterday. He may have felt under pressure after being criticised for giving up the penalty last week. He's still only 21 and I think that he has shown enough to be at least a good squad player for us over years to come.

**paul_oshea** · 07/01/2008, 7:52 AM

when i searched "paul mcshane" on this forum, this page only showed up on the 3rd results page....i would have thought a thread title with his name would have been top of the list?

Anyhow, fair play to keane for keeping faith in him, but I honestly cant see how he is still in the sunderland team, he definitely needs a more experienced centre half beside him - at a minimum as a start.

**Stuttgart88** · 07/01/2008, 9:19 AM

I think McShane will do fine in due course.

However, if there's one lesson that, in my mind anyway, is becoming increasingly obvious from the Stan regime it's that playing players just because they are young and promising and likely to be the best player in that position in the future is wrong.

In McShane's case it was slightly different. He was played mainly because we had nobody else. Dunne is our clear number 1 CB and Andy O'Brien was out of form and out of favour at his club. O'Shea was probably next in line but was needed to fill gaps elsewhere (both full back positions & centre-mid). The only other options for the role are the likes of St. Leger, McCarthy, Bruce, Joey O'Brien (makeshift choice) and O'Dea. All of these are relative rookies too. McShane has done reasonably well but has been prone to slips and lapses in concentration.

If we were playing a competitive game tomorrow I'd have O'Brien or O'Shea in beside Dunne. Only when a younger player is a better player should he be in the team. If he's no longer U21 eligible have him in the squad. If he's U21 play him in the U21s and build for a successful future that way. If he's U21 only if he's exceptional or worthy of a place on merit should he be with the seniors. McGeady for example. Maybe/probably also Joey O'Brien.

I personally would be tempted to look at Garvan in this context. Gibson should be in the U21s, along with Andy Keogh, Shane Long & Anthony Stokes.

**paul_oshea** · 07/01/2008, 10:52 AM

agreed

**the doc** · 07/01/2008, 12:06 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

I think McShane will do fine in due course.

However, if there's one lesson that, in my mind anyway, is becoming increasingly obvious from the Stan regime it's that playing players just because they are young and promising and likely to be the best player in that position in the future is wrong.

In McShane's case it was slightly different. He was played mainly because we had nobody else. Dunne is our clear number 1 CB and Andy O'Brien was out of form and out of favour at his club. O'Shea was probably next in line but was needed to fill gaps elsewhere (both full back positions & centre-mid). The only other options for the role are the likes of St. Leger, McCarthy, Bruce, Joey O'Brien (makeshift choice) and O'Dea. All of these are relative rookies too. McShane has done reasonably well but has been prone to slips and lapses in concentration.

If we were playing a competitive game tomorrow I'd have O'Brien or O'Shea in beside Dunne. Only when a younger player is a better player should he be in the team. If he's no longer U21 eligible have him in the squad. If he's U21 play him in the U21s and build for a successful future that way. If he's U21 only if he's exceptional or worthy of a place on merit should he be with the seniors. McGeady for example. Maybe/probably also Joey O'Brien.

I personally would be tempted to look at Garvan in this context. Gibson should be in the U21s, along with Andy Keogh, Shane Long & Anthony Stokes.

I think you have to question Stan's selection of McShane ahead of St Ledger for the Czech game, when you consider that McShane never even made the bench for the Cyprus game.

All the talk of Robson talking him out of playing McShane in Cyprus was rubbish, as if that was true why was he not on the bench?

Think it was more to do with Stan picking an Irish born player in an attempt try and field off the flack he was getting from the fans back home.

**NeilMcD** · 07/01/2008, 1:33 PM

I am not great defender of Staunton but he got the decision spot on that night. He does not have many things that he did well so lets not take those little ones away from him now that he is gone.

**the doc** · 07/01/2008, 6:31 PM

Originally Posted by NeilMcD

I am not great defender of Staunton but he got the decision spot on that night. He does not have many things that he did well so lets not take those little ones away from him now that he is gone.

Time will tell on that one! Two differant types of CB's one a stopper type (Paul) and the other a bringing the ball out and playing type (Sean).

**as_i_say** · 08/01/2008, 10:13 AM

Mcshane has been an utter disaster for Sunderland in the past few, well, months really. Ive been watching him with interest and not since our own Gary Breen has a player turned up to single handedly give away goals. Breen however rarely let Ireland down. McShane is a complete headless chicken at the moment. I can imagine Sundeland fans taking a deep breath every time he gets the ball.

Obviously Keane sees something in him- I think its pretty clear that he has a top attitude and that’s definitely worth something but I wouldn’t have him near our team at the moment.

Never thought I would say it but I would prefer O’Shea as CB to partner Dunne. Maybe now that he’s not getting regular starts with Man U it might help him!

**eirebhoy** · 08/01/2008, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by as_i_say

Mcshane has been an utter disaster for Sunderland in the past few, well, months really.

He was apparently one of their best players against Bolton and was voted motm by a few against Blackburn. They conceded 3 against Wigan but Nosworthy was playing for the first time in a while and Evans was making his debut. He wasn't at fault for any of the goals, even his own goal was just very unfortunate.

Originally Posted by as_i_say

Obviously Keane sees something in him

So do I. I still think Dunne-McShane is our best partnership. They get the best out of each other.

**Dr. Ogba** · 08/01/2008, 10:22 AM

I agree that McShane doesn't look great these past few weeks but I definitely wouldn't be writing him off just yet. As said earlier he has an exemplory (sp??) attitude and seems willing to learn the ropes which is really half the battle. Lest we forget, the legend that is Richie Dunne only started coming in to his own in the past 3-4 years so there's plenty of time for him to learn.

imho I think now that O'Brien's playing regularly and playing well, I'd have him as first choice for the next campaign but I think McShane is an able deputy and he will be a far better player by the time the next Euro's campaign comes around....

**paul_oshea** · 08/01/2008, 10:54 AM

He wasn't at fault for any of the goals, even his own goal was just very unfortunate.

you cant keep just being unfortunate. And though you might play 89.55 seconds brililantly it doesnt matter, if you are directly at fault for a goal within those other 5 seconds. Only thing can be said is dunne was prone to this at a young age also.

**tetsujin1979** · 08/01/2008, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

you cant keep just being unfortunate. And though you might play 89.55 seconds brililantly it doesnt matter, if you are directly at fault for a goal within those other 5 seconds. Only thing can be said is dunne was prone to this at a young age also.

Most central defenders are prone to mistakes at that age, Micah Richards struggles when Dunne is not beside him, ordering him what to do. At the same age as McShane, John Terry was getting arrested outside nightclubs, Carragher was playing right full, and a variety of other positions, while Hyppia and Henchoz were the centre halves.
It takes a long time to learn how to read the game in defence, Dunne is only hitting his peak now at 28 but he didn't start to emerge as a top class central defender until he was 25, 3 years older and more experienced than McShane is right now. Give him time.

**Stuttgart88** · 08/01/2008, 11:06 AM

There's a big difference between writing him off and not thinking he should be in the starting XI right now.

If we had a qualifier tomorrow I'd pick O'Brien or O'Shea ahead of McShane.

**citizenerased** · 08/01/2008, 11:08 AM

poor player...hasnt got it...great lad im sure..and full of heart, but ireland cant start him in these vital qualifiers. It would be suicide, a calamitous headless chicken is being kind..

**eirebhoy** · 08/01/2008, 12:56 PM

Originally Posted by Dr. Ogba

I agree that McShane doesn't look great these past few weeks but I definitely wouldn't be writing him off just yet.

I think the last few weeks has been his best form in a long time. The Bolton and Blackburn games were his last 2 premiership games. Since the Everton game he has mainly done well.

Originally Posted by paul_oshea

you cant keep just being unfortunate. And though you might play 89.55 seconds brililantly it doesnt matter, if you are directly at fault for a goal within those other 5 seconds.

He wasn't directly at fault for that goal though, Johnny Evans was. If McShane didn't rush back to cover it was almost certainly a goal anyway. Agahowa ended up getting to the ball slightly before McShane and pushed it into McShane's path. Maybe he was out of position and could have been more in line with Evans but all I saw was one clip of the goal. His positioning can be sorted out with an organiser beside him.

**sadloserkid** · 08/01/2008, 1:03 PM

Originally Posted by citizenerased

poor player...hasnt got it...great lad im sure..and full of heart, but ireland cant start him in these vital qualifiers. It would be suicide, a calamitous headless chicken is being kind..

Bingo. Paul McShane has a wonderful attitude and determination and is physically sound. He has no technique to speak of and while his mental abilities may develop over time he looks well out of his depth right now. He looks like a Gah player turned loose on a football field tbh.