Paul McShane

**an_ceannaire** · 18/10/2007, 12:01 PM

Are we grossly over rating the lad?

**paul_oshea** · 18/10/2007, 12:03 PM

i advised cautious optimism when he first broke onto the scene, he is certainly prone to errors, and his positional sense doesn't make up for his lack of speed. He needs a little more marshaling, but I can see him costing us big time in a match eventually as he is prone to errors etc, a little like a young dunne. Only time will tell I think.

**an_ceannaire** · 18/10/2007, 12:09 PM

its his positional sense that kills him, he has absolutely none. I hope he becomes the new Richie Dunne, but I have my doubts. I dunno why he bothers going forward, he has had the chance to score 4 goals in this campaign and not only missed but completely ******** up every one of them. He is a good man under a high ball and he can tackle, but he lets men in behind him, he is not aware of his surroundings and he has very little football in him

**mackannovic** · 18/10/2007, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by an_ceannaire

Are we grossly over rating the lad?

Yes, very much so I think. Thought O'Brien played better in centre-back against Germany and look far more at ease than McShane ever did.

As Raphael Honegstein said on Newstalk a while back:

"Paul McShane: There's so much wrong there"

**eirebhoy** · 18/10/2007, 12:19 PM

Look at Andy O'Brien and John O'Shea against Holland. That's two players with very little positional sense and organisational skills and the result is what happens when you put the 2 together. McShane has great positional sense for his age imo. He looks awkward, hurried and panicky a lot of the time but that's just his style of play. I think he's a very good reader of the game.

**Ozymandias** · 18/10/2007, 12:20 PM

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

Look at Andy O'Brien and John O'Shea against Holland. That's two players with very little positional sense and organisational skills and the result is what happens when you put the 2 together. McShane has great positional sense for his age imo. He looks awkward, hurried and panicky a lot of the time but that's just his style of play. I think he's a very good reader of the game.

i agree...we seem to forget how young he is...

**lionelhutz** · 18/10/2007, 12:42 PM

Sometimes he reminds of a dog chasing a frisby, but then other times he wins the ball like kevin moran in his prime.

He is still young and will improve - just depends on whether he can improve his reading of the game which is very questionable at the moment - as was shown by the cypriots goal.

The fact that the hapless o'shea was longside him last nite certainly didnt help him. I think himself and Dunne make an excellent partnership cause Dunne can read the game very well and direct McShane

**DaveyCakes** · 18/10/2007, 12:45 PM

He's hopeless. The end.

**an_ceannaire** · 18/10/2007, 12:49 PM

its a fair point about his age, and Rich Dunne wasnt the greatest centre half in the world back then either!
But McShane just seems to panic and get into dreadful positions too often...work in progress for sure......the brilliant premiership defender some would have u believe.....no....not yet anyways

**eirebhoy** · 18/10/2007, 12:52 PM

This thread is going into my bookmarks and I'll drag it up in a few years time.

Look at England's next big thing, Micah Richards. Put him beside John O'Shea and see how impressive he looks.

Richards:
"I am still young and I am still learning. I know I have a tendency to chase people all over the place sometimes but that is where Richard Dunne has been such a big help to me. He is always moving me into the right positions."

I'm really surprised how opinions on McShane have changed. The vast majority of centre halves of his age need to be led. At premiership/international level 99% of 21 year old centre halves need to be led. I actually don't think McShane requires an organiser beside him all that much. Unlike Phil Babb, McShane is learning a lot with every game.

I'm delighted to have Dunne and McShane as our centre backs.

**Ozymandias** · 18/10/2007, 12:53 PM

i hear ya eirebhoy and will do the same

**mackannovic** · 18/10/2007, 12:56 PM

I never really saw it myself and still can't.

**Ordinary Fan** · 18/10/2007, 1:02 PM

He is still work in progress. Not playing centre-back for his club will not help but he was in the same position at WBA.
Some people blew him up to much after the Czech game, see how his does over the next 12 months for his club will tell which way he will develop.

Whatever about his size, pace and positional sense, you gotta love his passion.

**McShels** · 18/10/2007, 1:02 PM

He does remind me of Dunne a few years ago, talented but still raw is how I would put it.

Although I wouldnt like to see McShane and Dunne be our CH pairing as neither have enough pace for international football IMO.

**drinkfeckarse** · 18/10/2007, 1:03 PM

The praise lavished on him after the Czech game got out of hand. He isn't the worst defender but he has a lot to work on like most young defenders. He has potential but has a long way to go yet. I would still think that he can be an important player for us in years to come.

**eirebhoy** · 18/10/2007, 1:07 PM

Originally Posted by McShels

He does remind me of Dunne a few years ago, talented but still raw is how I would put it.

Although I wouldnt like to see McShane and Dunne be our CH pairing as neither have enough pace for international football IMO.

Dunne now is one of the top 10 centre halves in the premiership. When he was 21 he needed an experienced head beside him. I don't necessarily think McShane does but he'll obviously look a lot better beside one.

**paul_oshea** · 18/10/2007, 1:12 PM

EB, book them along with those ones where you said we would beat germany at home and cyprus and mcgeady and all those other ones about kerr too and how great israel are etc.....

I never changed my opinion on McShane I have always said the same about him.

**SunderlandBohs** · 18/10/2007, 1:13 PM

I said this at the start of the season when he signed for us. The lad looks a little raw & needs an experience head beside him in defence (like Richard Dunne). He's only 22 so give him time.

**jbyrne** · 18/10/2007, 1:31 PM

the whole lack of shape and consistency that has been a constant throughout this campaign wont have helped him one bit. rule no. 1 in football is to get your back four sorted.... we were forced into one change (and a big one at that) due to dunnes suspension yet despite that big enough disruption to our back four stan adds to it by making 3 changes to the back 4 from last sat!!

**John83** · 18/10/2007, 1:35 PM

Originally Posted by lionelhutz

Sometimes he reminds of a dog chasing a frisby, but then other times he wins the ball like kevin moran in his prime.

He is still young and will improve - just depends on whether he can improve his reading of the game which is very questionable at the moment - as was shown by the cypriots goal.

The fact that the hapless o'shea was longside him last nite certainly didnt help him. I think himself and Dunne make an excellent partnership cause Dunne can read the game very well and direct McShane

I agree. O'Shea was far quieter than him last night - less errors, but less tackles, clearances, headers... everything.

Originally Posted by eirebhoy

I'm really surprised how opinions on McShane have changed. The vast majority of centre halves of his age need to be led. At premiership/international level 99% of 21 year old centre halves need to be led. I actually don't think McShane requires an organiser beside him all that much. Unlike Phil Babb, McShane is learning a lot with every game.

I'm delighted to have Dunne and McShane as our centre backs.

I agree entirely. McShane is leading the line for Sunderland - there's no better reader of the game in their squad (which says a lot about their squad), and he's making do every week. He's far better than I recall Dunne at that age, but it's hard to make the comparison - Dunne was a bit of a waster at his age.

Originally Posted by Ordinary Fan

He is still work in progress. Not playing centre-back for his club will not help but he was in the same position at WBA.
Some people blew him up to much after the Czech game, see how his does over the next 12 months for his club will tell which way he will develop.

Whatever about his size, pace and positional sense, you gotta love his passion.

He is playing centre-half for his club.

And yes, I love the passion.