Tour de France 2007

**TheBoss** · 24/07/2007, 11:21 PM

I have always enjoyed watching Cycling, seeing who the better man is through many events. But some people just can not accept being worse than the best so they take drugs and stuff to make them better and it is ruining the sport, the TV fans might just start not too watch it anymore, if they are watching cheats winning the races. Even Rasmussen is under the Spotlight aswell, if he has taken anything and wins the tour, 2 years straight and no winner, could really damage the sport.

**Macy** · 25/07/2007, 7:11 AM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

Tour de France/ Professional Cycling in big trouble and its reputation in tatters unless the drugs thing is faced square on.In other words "proper" controls at all Professional events.

This is where they're caught in catch 22 though. Proper controls, such as the method which caught Vino, are met with distain and moral outrage when they work (such as we're seeing now). Maybe cycling would've been better off adopting a head in the sand attitude like many other sports, like most of the field games. Methods used in cycling would be equally beneficial across many sports, but since they don't do the same tests they're never going to have to deal with the consequences.

Now doubt Kimmage will be all over the radio, with no current cycling commentator/ reporter/ fan as any kind of balance, in his usual bitter extreme way saying how everyone is corrupt and how he was right all along... (not to take away from Rough Ride which is a great book)

**the 12 th man** · 25/07/2007, 7:42 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

. Methods used in cycling would be equally beneficial across many sports, but since they don't do the same tests they're never going to have to deal with the consequences.

I'm sure you're right there Macy but with Cycling so damaged by it (allegations etc) that I don't think there's any choice if it wants to remain an event that has any credibility or remain being covered by TV/Radio etc.

Imagine if you could watch a Tour de France knowing everybody was clean

**Macy** · 25/07/2007, 7:54 AM

Originally Posted by the 12 th man

I'm sure you're right there Macy but with Cycling so damaged by it (allegations etc) that I don't think there's any choice if it wants to remain an event that has any credibility or remain being covered by TV/Radio etc.

There is no choice, I just hate hearing people being sneering on Radio/ TV about cycling, and then they move on to Athletics as if it's 100% clean, and then Football that doesn't even do blood testing, and then onto the GAA which has a shambolic testing procedure from what I can see...

Having said that, the UCI are about as organised as the FAI. How they let a situation like Rasmussen develop where he can miss 4 tests and still not hit the 3 strike rule is ridiculous.

**Stuttgart88** · 25/07/2007, 8:53 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

I just hate hearing people being sneering on Radio/ TV about cycling, and then they move on to Athletics as if it's 100% clean, and then Football that doesn't even do blood testing, and then onto the GAA which has a shambolic testing procedure from what I can see...

Hear hear.

The sport is clearly in trouble, but it annoys me intensely when football, my main sporting interest, is corrupted by cheats, divers, touts, bent agents, bent managers, foreign billionaires with very questionable ethical records and so on. Nobody batted an eyelid. Scumbags like Joey Barton are idolisewd. 'arry Redknapp, don't you just love 'im & 'is whelling & dealing? No, he's a crook. The only questions being asked at man City recently werre whether Sven was the right manager, not whether a corrupt politician was an appropraite owner of what's essentially a public asset. The FA's "fit & proper persons" test is a farce.

Rugby Union is generally played in a much more honest spirit but watching the All Blacks vs the Lions was an eye opener - the O'Driscoll tackle, perpetual offside, deliberate obstruction of players chasing an up-and-under while pretending it was accidental...

At least cycling is facing its demons and in due course it'll be better for it. Good riddance to Astana. In Germany it's thought that Kloeden moved from T-Mobile to Astana once T-mobile announced its zero tolerance policy, though that didn't stop one of their riders testing positive in the Alps.

I've always loved watching the tour, even back in the early 80s when the only coverage was a short review of the week's action on World of Sport (Joop Zoetemelk / Team Raleigh era) and it is still a compelling event in my opinion. In fact it's the only sport Mrs Stuttgart will watch with me!

I'm considering doing next year's l'Etape, but that's a different story.

**Bluebeard** · 25/07/2007, 9:04 AM

I have been watching cycling for years too, particularly. I'd drifted away from it for a few years between the Pantani thing, the dominance of the most boring man in cycling, and Festina gate. This year, when I had heard that they were starting to take a real grip on the drugs side of things, and it looked likely that they were going to retrospectively strip Landis of last year's title, I came back to it.

I have enjoyed this tour immensely so far, but I feel betrayed once more by the drug allegations. I have to say that kicking off the drug cheats so fast was great to see. However the Rasmussen issue is a very serious breach that I would like to hear something concrete on. I was particularly deligthed to see a Grimpeur doing well, especially a former Mountain Biker, and had been looking forward to the time-trial on Saturday with Baited breath, but then this makes it all seem so worthless.

Any sport where a tragic death like Pantani's can happen, needs serious work. I think that there is a movement to bring an end to it; but it is becoming clear that there is a hell of a lot of work to do.

**Dodge** · 25/07/2007, 9:25 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

. In Germany it's thought that Kloeden moved from T-Mobile to Astana once T-mobile announced its zero tolerance policy, though that didn't stop one of their riders testing positive in the Alps.

But look at the way they dealt with it. No messing, no arguing. "He's suspended until the B sample results,a nd if thats positive he's sacked" I got the sense they were definitely serious about cleaning up their act

Vinokourov was linked with the whole Operation Puerto thing so its not a total surprise. Just disappointed as I loved his attacking style.

Reading "game of Shadows" at the moment about the whole BALCO thing and if you thing cycling is dirty you should read this book and see the extent of drugs in US sport where the big 3 (MLB, NFL and NBA) have had to be dragged kicking and screaming into drugs tests and where bans are ridiculously soft

**Macy** · 25/07/2007, 9:31 AM

The Rasmussen thing is simple really - 3 tests missed counts as a failed test. However, it's 3 missed per testing agency - he's missed two for the danes, and two for the UCI. Where it really stinks is why he was allowed to start and why the Danes decided to keep quiet until he was in Yellow. He should never have started, but someone somewhere decided to hammer the sport in it's period of maximum coverage rather than to stop it getting that far.

**Dodge** · 25/07/2007, 9:40 AM

I thought he only missed 2 in total but admittedly wasn't around much yesterday to read about it

memories of a few years ago when they made the huge announcements in the 2nd week in le tour. its almost like they want to destroy it

**Stuttgart88** · 25/07/2007, 9:59 AM

Vino was one of the so-called "men in black" before the Tour started, cyclists training in non-descript kit, not their team training kit, in remote locations to avoid being recognised. Vino claimed it was to avoid hangers on and ametuers trying to ride with him. Yeah right.

As I saw elsewhere this morning, "In Vino no Veritas". Shame, because I think everyone liked his style, just like everyoneone loved the Abdoujaparov from Uzbekistan before him.

Rassmussen missed 4 tests, 2 each for different orgainsations.

**NY Hoop** · 25/07/2007, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by Macy

Now doubt Kimmage will be all over the radio, with no current cycling commentator/ reporter/ fan as any kind of balance, in his usual bitter extreme way saying how everyone is corrupt and how he was right all along... (not to take away from Rough Ride which is a great book)

100% correct. He is a very very bitter man. Or as he would say himself: He. Is. A. Very. Bitter. Bitter. Man.

Yet another sad day for a great sport. But while I agree about football being controlled by questionable characters the players arent injecting themselves or replacing blood before games.

Finished Pantani's book there recently by Matt Rendell. Very powerful but also a deeply sad indictment about the sport.

IMO the only way that cycling will clean itself up is if the tv stations threaten to pull out therefore losing the major financing. Just cant see the Tour happening without tv though.

KOH

**the 12 th man** · 25/07/2007, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

IMO the only way that cycling will clean itself up is if the tv stations threaten to pull out therefore losing the major financing. Just cant see the Tour happening without tv though.

KOH

As well as TV etc regarding continuing to cover the race (as you know some already pulled out) can you imagine what the various team sponsors must be thinking right now?.

David Walsh getting ready to let rip as we speak..

**Macy** · 25/07/2007, 11:10 AM

Originally Posted by NY Hoop

Yet another sad day for a great sport. But while I agree about football being controlled by questionable characters the players arent injecting themselves or replacing blood before games.

That we know of. Pretty hard to know, if there's no tests. I wonder how many asthmatic footballers there are? Quite a high percentage of Rugby players are apparently.

Just reading the Pantani book myself, just hadn't got round to it as I was never a huge fan of him as a rider (always preferred the all rounders to the pure climbers tbh). Awaiting delivery of the Robert Millar book at the moment.

**WeAreRovers** · 25/07/2007, 11:19 AM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

Rassmussen missed 4 tests, 2 each for different orgainsations.

And was tested twice pre-Tour and 14 times since the Tour started. This stinks of Kimmage et al looking for another bad guy. The sight of actual drug cheat David Millar getting on his moral high horse about Rasmussen is sickening.

Macy - re. Pantani, I'vre always loved the pure climbers. This young Colombian lad Soler Hernandez has been the story of the Tour for me this year.

KOH

**Dodge** · 25/07/2007, 11:27 AM

Nah, Contador is the best climber I've seen in years. They've always been my favourites. Claudio Chiapucci being probably my favourite non Irish cyclist of all time

**Macy** · 25/07/2007, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

And was tested twice pre-Tour and 14 times since the Tour started. This stinks of Kimmage et al looking for another bad guy. The sight of actual drug cheat David Millar getting on his moral high horse about Rasmussen is sickening.

I don't know, it needs a few poachers to turn game keeper if it's genuinely going to be clean. Lest we forget, Millar has never actually tested positive and confessed when he could've roughed it out like others have done. Most of the interviews I've seen he said it didn't look good, but criticised the UCI's whereabouts system rather than Rasmussen? Like I said, what really stinks about the Rasmussen case is that they waited until the middle of the tour, with him in yellow, to suspend him. There's no credible explaination bar cause maximum damage.

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

Macy - re. Pantani, I'vre always loved the pure climbers. This young Colombian lad Soler Hernandez has been the story of the Tour for me this year.

Just something about Pantani that I never warmed too. Even now actually after being a bit into the book. Having said that I used to love it when Chiapucci would go off on a mad one.

**WeAreRovers** · 25/07/2007, 11:53 AM

Originally Posted by Dodge

Nah, Contador is the best climber I've seen in years. They've always been my favourites. Claudio Chiapucci being probably my favourite non Irish cyclist of all time

I love Contador too - and I hope he does Ras today - but the skinny little Colombian rocks. He only took up cycling at 17 when a race went through his hillside village. He won the race the next year. Agree about Chiapucci.

KOH

**NY Hoop** · 25/07/2007, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by WeAreRovers

The sight of actual drug cheat David Millar getting on his moral high horse about Rasmussen is sickening.
KOH

Spot on.

His namesake Robert was a classy rider although Macy this is probably not in that book:

http://www.cyclinglogue.com/about-cy...ger-a-man.html

KOH

**Macy** · 25/07/2007, 12:13 PM

I don't think it's true if that's about him now being a woman? iirc the author was asked about that when he was Off The Ball and he said it's not true?