QuoteKerr's problem was that he had poor players; Stauton's problem is that he hasn't a clue what to do with poor players.
from what i hear you might be seeing a little protest out there...Originally Posted by littlered
Kerr's problem was that he had poor players; Stauton's problem is that he hasn't a clue what to do with poor players.
That's something I have to disagree on. Kerr inherited a very good side. McCarthy inherited an ageing team with no future and left Kerr with a very, very good squad. Given, Carr, Finnan, O'Shea, Dunne, Cunningham, Harte, Duff, Kilbane, Holland and Keane were all capped by McCarthy and none were even thirty when Kerr took over.
Brian Kerr simply wasn't up to the job.
Staunton is in a similar position to McCarthy in 1996. Unfortunately, he looks like he has no idea how to set his team up to defend properly.
Last edited by barney; 09/10/2006 at 12:50 AM.
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Agreed somewhat. But the simple fact is there was at least some level of transparancy and consisteny in what McCarthy was doing back then. I mean regardless of wheather you agreed with some of his experimentation back then (the 3-5-2 for example or later the ill fated Keane in the Sweeper/Sammer role), you could see at least some level of reasoning for it.
Stauntons decisions on the other hand defy a man of his experience. There's no rhyme or reason to some of his actions. This has been said since he anounced his first eleven against Sweden. The 3-0 win masked it for a short while.
Alot, if not all, of his policies provide more questions than answers. He has to account for himself. A press conference. A full interview. Anything. Cos I can't see what he's trying to achieve or how he's planning on going about it.
Honestly I don't think it was much different from last year, a Kerr team with a holding CM was just as shíte and a 1-0 victory postponed the post mortem rumpus. If you don't see that you're as dillusional as Stan is stubborn
Even with the sparse available resources it was poor team setup and therein lies the lack of confidence than Stan has the wherewithall to get the team to function.
His stubborness in not selecting Carsley and loyalty to Kilbane and O'Shea are getting in the way of looking at the team objectively and learning on the job.
Staunton: Lee Carsley? "We're looking forward. The thing is, if you remember a lot of you didn't have a lot of nice things to say about Lee when he last played for Ireland. I've decided to go with young Ireland and he didn't let me down tonight."
How can he possibly think that Ireland is an alternative to Carsley. He simply doesn't even undertstand basic team set up in my opinion.
This defeat is like a thunderstorm that clears the air. There's far more clarity about the situation now than there was when we won 1-0 in Cyprus, in an equally crap performance.
I feel a lot better this morning than I did after the 1-1 in Macedonia, the 1-0 in Zagreb or the 1-0 in Brussels in '83. For some odd reason.
I do genuinley think the man for man Scotland XI vs Ireland XI comparison in anoither thread tells a really important tale:
Team balance / shape ( manager's responsibility)
Physical stature (nothing we can do?)
Leadership / moral courage (where does this come from?)
Football ethos: Scotland play it, we hump it (manager's fault)
Scotland has a self-sufficient credible football infrastructure (FAI resposibility & our responsibility)
I don't even think Walter Smith is that good a manager. But he knows what he's doing & his players respond to him.
On another day Scotland could have lost 3-1. But that's not the point. The way they were set up & went about their game gave them a chance. They way we're going about our business doesn't give us any chance against a good team. Not even against mediocre teams.
Haven't seen the goals, I switched the radio off when they went 3-2 up as I knew we were going to get humped.
To see Scotland battle the French and the obvious pride they had in their jersey reminded me of days gone by when our players took pride in the jersey and wondering what time the nightclub was open until wasn't uppermost in their thoughts.
I came into work this morning to see my Scottish workmates beam with pride in their own side and express shock and surprise at the Irish result to me.
"It looks like you've got your very own Berti Vogts" said one. Painfully true.
Top Breeders recommend drinkfeckarse....
I've never felt worse. I still cannot get over this defeat. When did Stan say that about Carsley? What kind of reason is that for not picking Carsley?! The press gave him a hard time so I went for a midfielder who doesn't track back and cannot tackle because he is so frail....
Scotland and Northern Ireland players have pride in their shirt and the respective managers have experience. We have a joker who has held a reserve team manager post for Walsall and costs a pittance in wages each year.
"If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.
You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!
This was always going to be the problem with picking someone like Staunton for the job. Apart from his complete and utter incompetence as a manager, he has also played with most of these players and so has certain loyalties to certain people (I wouldn't be surprised to hear sometime in the future that he had previously had a falling out with Carsley when playing). Can anyone honestly say that if a foreign manager (lets just say Troussier as an example) came in and assessed all of the players at his disposal and went and picked a team he would pick O'Shea and/or Kilbane in centre mid???? Would he have seen Robbie Keane as captain material??? No chance!
What was desperately needed when Kerr left was for comeone to come in with a clean slate and would have no hesititation in shipping out the dead wood and also kicking arse when required but we were let with Steve "I'm still one of the lads" Staunton. And for this its obvious that Delaney must be the man to carry the blame for this shambles...
It's bad when you are agreeing with Tom Humphries
IRISH TIMES _ TOM HUMPHRIES
LockerRoom: For those of us living out our small lives of quiet desperation there's at least one small solace. We have no audience and we have no gallery of critics. Our banal failings and our humdrum failures are our own to fret over and to live with. In a world which never notices us we are spared the incisions from the critic's scalpel. That's a kindness.
Steve Staunton works in a pitiless, well lit world. He chose it for himself. He went from being an assistant manager at Walsall to managing an international soccer team. We don't know how far beyond the business of picking up and laying out training cones his work at Walsall went, but we know this morning that we are watching a man who has tragically overreached himself.
His sponsor in this folly has been John Delaney, whose culpability is deeper because he is cunning enough a man to have known better. If Steve Staunton goes soon, which he should, John Delaney should hold his hand as he walks the plank.
Steve Staunton is guilty of nothing more than ambition which, so far, outstrips his ability. John Delaney brings rather more into the confession box.
The situation this morning isn't about Brian Kerr, and we are realistic enough to know that nothing which happens in the near future in Irish soccer will restore Kerr to the centrality he has earned and deserves. Let us just remember, however, that in order for the current farrago to take place Brian Kerr had first to be knifed and filleted.
Brian Kerr, whose international teams certainly suffered from the failing of caution but never showed signs of complete dissolution; Brian Kerr, who invested his heart and his soul in the future of soccer in this country; Brian Kerr, who had a vision and a plan for how we might move forward; Brian Kerr, who had given so much service over so many years - Brian Kerr was nobbled and his limp-suited form dragged to the murky wings. Tragedy over. Ta da! Here comes the comedy.
Need we linger on the grim "search for a world-class manager" - as audaciously wielded a bottle of smoke as OJ Simpson's "hunt for the real killers"? In the end, the arcane provisions of the Old Pals Act served to fill the vacancy looking after the Irish team. Steve Staunton was located working humbly at little old Walsall. An FAI limo pulled up kerbside and when the smoked window came down with an impressive purr a man with a quiff leaned out.
"Hey, what's a nice Stan like you doing in a place like this? Let me take you away from all this," said the quiff.
You can't blame Steve Staunton for being bowled over. He arrived a few days later at a press conference in Dublin, blushing like a mail-order bride as he met the media - who wore faces like a set of dubious in-laws. We the media were assured by none other than John Delaney that here in one stroke was the restoration of passion to Irish hearts.
And for those who insisted on looking too closely at Steve Staunton's threadbare CV, well, hey, why not look over there at the kindly, white-haired old man who rambles on a lot. Isn't that Bobby Robson, Sir Bobby to you? Arise, Sir International Football Consultant.
One or other of them must know how to do the job. Steve and Bobby? Mustn't they?
More old pals piled in. If there had been sufficient old pals around Brian Kerr we'd have won the last World Cup apparently. As it was there were so many old pals on board now that we could afford the luxury of not really worrying about Euro 2008 but looking forward to South Africa 2010.
Pick your jaw up off the floor there, Brian Kerr; you know why you had to feel the knife between your shoulder blades. John Delaney told the Daily Mail last January. He'd looked, not into the heart of the nation but into the eyes of the Swiss.
"There was no fear in their eyes," quoth John. "Every Swiss person I spoke to looked confident. There was no fear or intimidation about coming to Lansdowne Road anymore
. . . that wasn't supposed to happen."
Are the Swiss famous for being afraid? Are they bedwetters? It couldn't be left there though. The knife had to be twisted.
"I think the most interesting remark came from Damien Duff," said Delaney, "who said we were playing like a pub team. We were always very difficult to play against, especially at Lansdowne Road. Teams feared us. They hated coming to Dublin but that had gone "
Now then. The Czech Republic visit us on Wednesday night. Can we all head out to the airport to get a close look to see if there is fear in their eyes this Monday morning? Did we have an optician take a look into the steely blues of the Cypriot team this weekend to check if their startled pupils betrayed a quiver of fear when the words Republic of Ireland were mentioned.
5-2. Five goals to two! Beyond our wildest nightmares is what Saturday night in Nicosia was. This was a landmark disaster which took us to the parts of embarrassment excuses can't reach. It was beyond comedy.
There have been calamitous results in the past which could be put down to a bad day at the office; there have been days when we huffed and puffed but couldn't put the ball in the net; there have been days when we got sucker punched by a decent team. But this was 90 minutes of gradual disintegration.
5-2. V Cyprus. We got a goal in the eighth minute and we spent the last 15 minutes being made fools of. The Cypriots could have added two or three at the end but, hey, who can accurately calibrate the different measures of humiliation in conceding five to Cyprus and conceding six or seven?
5-2. We had a back four made up of Premiership footballers and we had a Premiership goalkeeper behind them. We had a right to expect that at least we would set out our stall so as not to concede goals.
Ahead of our defence we had (having mysteriously eschewed the services of a baffled Lee Carsley) an unviable central midfield but also Aiden McGeady, Duff and Robbie Keane. In other words, we had some injury troubles but we had enough talent on the floor to go and do the job.
The evidence of Saturday night (and the absurdly overpraised adventure in Germany and the disturbing evenings against Chile and Holland) is that Steve Staunton has so much to learn that this job may destroy him before he can absorb those lessons. He is a good man who is out of his depth. He must go on grinning and bearing it and providing the ritual cant at press conferences, looking forward to the next match and so on. Somebody needs to take us out of his misery.
It won't be John Delaney who does the job. Delaney has linked his administrative career to Staunton's ability to deliver. The national team has become an instrument of political expediency. This grand tradition we all feel intimately acquainted with and passionate about is a plaything.
Steve Staunton shouldn't be left out there dangling. We are watching a snuff movie and it's horribly uncomfortable. The Irish international soccer team is not a learning tool, not a typewriter with the letters on the keys blacked out, not a flight simulator in which you can make 1,000 bumpy landings. The Irish team represents us and it carries our flag and our hopes.
Wednesday night promises only more horror. Not in an eternity could a manager restore his players' faith in his work after a result like Saturday's. With a few days to play with between Cyprus and Lansdowne the problem for Steve Staunton will be simple: scraping his team's morale up from the floor.
We're on the road to nowhere. Pit-stop needed. Points required. Smart Boy Wanted
People from dundalk or even more gutted than anyone else.
I was in a pub that some of the staunton drink in (including steve) on Saturday.
We all want him out ,but in respect to this guy he never had a chance ...a reserve coach to international ......Please god tell me what is going on within the fai.
I went home saturday on threw my home jersey in the fire ...gutted , heart broken and ashamed to be irish for the 1st time in my life....
Fai wrong as I may be you have lost 1 fan ,who has love the team since 87.
I thank thee.
look everyone is ****ed off, but you cant be like that. even though those players aren't wearing there hearts on their sleave, or near dying for the cause, its still our country and our team out there, remember that. you don't just abandon your country cos of 11 ( + 1 ) gob****es out there.
I'm a bloke,I'm an ocker
And I really love your knockers,I'm a labourer by day,
I **** up all me pay,Watching footy on TV,
Just feed me more VB,Just pour my beer,And get my smokes, And go away
11 cowards was all i saw on saturday plus a feckless gob****e in the stands
Guys i know im wrong but i can help feel this way.
Do any of u guys think the team just dont care ....pathom injuries ??? 18 injuries over all in this game and the dutch ......strange.
I dont care if we get beat by cyprus once we put up half a fight ...a gutlless team but this has been creeping up over the past 3-4 years......
Paul Doyle - the Guardian
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/sport/20...n_must_go.html
it's tempting to talk about the weather. Or the price of houses. Or gonorrhoea. Anything, really, other than Saturday's outrageous humiliation in Cyprus. Any Irish person who didn't at least contemplate burning their passports while watching the 5-2 rogering in Nicosia should, well, have their passports burned.
Let's not beat about the bush: this was the Republic of Ireland's worst-ever result. Nothing else comes close. Drawing 0-0 with Liechtenstein in 1995 was preposterous, but at least our mangy opponents never looked like scoring. And we can overlook the 7-1 defeat in Czechoslovakia in 1961 because the Czechs went on to to reach the World Cup final the following year, just as we can ignore the 7-0 hammering in Brazil in 1982 because, a) it was against Brazil and b) most of the players treated the trip as a jolly, notably Gerry Daly, who gave so much of a hoot that he played with his shorts back to front. The 4-1 home defeat to Denmark in 1985 that spelt the end of Eoin Hand's reign was abject, but the Danes boasted the likes of Jan Molby, Michael Laudrup and Preben Elkjaer. Cyprus, by contrast, fielded players most of their own fans hadn't even heard of.
Ah yes, the home fans. Most of them didn't even turn up for Saturday's match, the virtually empty stadium attesting to the fact that they'd abandoned all hope for their national team, who've been whipping boys for so long that they should have scars rather than numbers on their backs. Before Saturday they had managed five goals in a match on just three occasions in their entire history: by becoming the fourth team to grant them that tally, Steve Staunton's shocking troops have followed in the illustrious footsteps of Andorra, Kuwait and a Greek Army XI. It's scandalous.
It would be tolerable if Ireland had lost 1-0 after being repelled by an inspired keeper and then hit with a sucker punch. But they were completely overrun and could have conceded seven or eight. This against a side who, last year, struggled to beat Jordan 2-1 at home.
So why were they so abominable? Yes, they were ravaged by injury but Staunton was still able to start with nine Premiership players and, in Aiden McGeady, one of the most exciting young talents in the Scottish Premierleague. That should have been more than enough to see off the humble Cypriots. McGeady wasn't bad and Damien Duff was average, but the rest of the team stunk like exposed corpses. Worse, they didn't appear to be even trying to play to a particular pattern or plan - they had absolutely no idea what they were supposed to be doing and, whatever it was, they did it badly. And they didn't look like they cared.
After such a clueless, gutless performance, especially coming so soon after August's 4-0 hammering by Holland at Lansdowne Road - Ireland's worst home defeat in 40 years - there's certainly a strong case for sacking Staunton who, since he has no track record whatsoever in management, can offer precisely no evidence that he's capable of turning things around. But the FAI should hold fire.
Stan was appointed on the understanding that he would have a more experienced manager tutoring him as he went. Choosing Sir Bobby Robson, a septuagenarian with a history of health problems, doesn't look especially clever now that he's sidelined through illness for the foreseeable future, but the principle wasn't stupid. It wasn't brilliant either, mind, since rather than name Stan the novice as No1, it would undoubtedly have made more sense to appoint him as a seasoned manager's No2 with a view to him taking over a few years down the line, Steve McClaren-style. But the FAI made its decision and Stan was given a four-year contract on those terms. Unfortunately, his mentor hasn't been on hand to help when it mattered. To sack him in such circumstances after just two competitive games is fundamentally unfair and would be a humiliation his nascent managerial career may never recover from.
The FAI recognises this (or maybe they just don't want to pay compensation), which is why they're frantically trying to find another mentor. Panicked calls have been made to Kenny Dalglish. If the Scotsman accepts, he'll school Stan through the rest of the campaign, which will certainly not end with qualification for Euro 2008 - which is why there's now little point now recalling 32-year-old Lee Carsley, which Stan should have done two months ago - but may at least build a platform for the 2010 World Cup.
On second thoughts, ignore the last few paragraphs: sack Staunton. There's no reason for Ireland to accept being in a transitional period just because the FAI decided to dump them into one. There's a decent squad of players at the country's disposal, certainly at least as talented as Northern Ireland and Scotland's. Why should that pair be toppling Spain and France while the Republic are being slaughtered by Cyprus? There is no justification. The difference is that Northern Ireland and Scotland have good managers who had solid achievements at club level before being made national team bosses and who started making small but perceptible progress as soon as they took the reins of their respective countries. If the FAI succeed in getting through to Dalglish, they should give him the top job. Sorry Stan.
That Tom Humphries article was spot on.
"If God had meant football to be played in the air, he'd have put grass in the sky." Brian Clough.
You'll NEVER beat the Irish.......you'll just draw with us instead!!!
You can be ashamed of the team but never be ashamed to be Irish. I can understand the strong feelings but there's worse things in life. We'll have our good times again.
Top Breeders recommend drinkfeckarse....
...when the rugby team take the pitch.
Humphires hit the nail on the head there didnt he.
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