Irish trio score for Sunderland

**NeilMcD** · 15/09/2006, 9:07 AM

Its on you tube if you search sunderland leeds

**Stuttgart88** · 15/09/2006, 10:08 AM

Tks Neil.

**eirebhoy** · 15/09/2006, 1:21 PM

Kavanagh is now starting to frustrate me.

He hasn't done all that much at international level but are Kilbane, O'Shea, Miller and Douglas better than him? I don't think so. He's the best of an average bunch I suppose.

**dr_peepee** · 15/09/2006, 1:46 PM

If form dictates his selection though he could be acomadated. I think Kilbanes competitive run of games should be close to ending. Kavanagh could come in beside O'Shea with S.Reid going out on the right with the freedom afforded to Gerrard/Bowyer in similar roles. At the end of the day if he's excelling against Championship opposition there's no reason he can't against the cypriots.

O'Shea showing the kind of club form for us in the middle is the key more so than Reid/Kavanagh etc. I think any one of our industrious drones could come in and compensate to some, if a lesser, extent if S. Reid or whoevers in posession is missing against Cyprus. I was really impressed though with O'Shea for UTD recently, even during his appearence against celtic. He held posession under pressure and used the ball well/properly, something that's most definately missing from Irish performances.

**Stuttgart88** · 15/09/2006, 1:56 PM

Originally Posted by dr_peepee

if he's excelling against Championship opposition there's no reason he can't against the cypriots.

O'Shea showing the kind of club form for us in the middle is the key more so than Reid/Kavanagh etc. I think any one of our industrious drones could come in and compensate to some, if a lesser, extent if S. Reid or whoevers in posession is missing against Cyprus. I was really impressed though with O'Shea for UTD recently, even during his appearence against celtic. He held posession under pressure and used the ball well/properly, something that's most definately missing from Irish performances.

So frustrating.

I thought Kavanagh was overrun in Cyprus last year. He started brilliantly, involved in everything, but after we started to retreat he barely got a touch.

Likewise O'Shea. As Bobby Robson says - if he can only do the simple things that he seems to do well for MUFC...

O'Shea put Carrick & Gravesen, two naturally talented midfielders, to shame on Wednesday. I suppose the game was stretched and won by that stage but he totally looked the part.

You can't ignore club form, so on that basis I'd be perfectly happy for at least one of Kav or Miller to play in October, maybe even both, but I still think management favours O'Shea.

**mjpcc** · 15/09/2006, 2:13 PM

thanks eireboy.

great to see the goals.

**zinedineontour** · 15/09/2006, 4:25 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

So frustrating.

I thought Kavanagh was overrun in Cyprus last year. He started brilliantly, involved in everything, but after we started to retreat he barely got a touch.

Likewise O'Shea. As Bobby Robson says - if he can only do the simple things that he seems to do well for MUFC...

O'Shea put Carrick & Gravesen, two naturally talented midfielders, to shame on Wednesday. I suppose the game was stretched and won by that stage but he totally looked the part.

You can't ignore club form, so on that basis I'd be perfectly happy for at least one of Kav or Miller to play in October, maybe even both, but I still think management favours O'Shea.

you can ignore club form when oshea has not played well for ireland for a few years now and keeps getting picked .. Oshea put carrick to shame on wed ? your having a laugh and gravesen was in rag order when he had come on .. kav is a far better option with reid in the centre for me ..

**geysir** · 16/09/2006, 11:16 AM

Kav is one of my favourite Irish players. It hurts that he hasn't done himself justice in the Ireland games.
He hasn't demonstrated enough consistency in the green shirt to warrant being a first team choice. That's a serious indictment considering the skill levels of the others. I had thought fortune did not favour him when Keane returned or when he got untimely injured.
There are a few glaring examples since when under pressure he was weak.
I saw his last chance as a first choice was blown when Kerr didn't pick him for the last game against the Swiss.
I knew we couldn't do any better with the midfield that day but Kerr I suspect couldn't place trust in Kav's lack of consistency.
Right now Kav is a squad member. With O'Shea fit, it's a question of who will partner O'Shea, any other consideration is just mind games.
With O'Shea injured or drafted elsewhere to fill some other position then Carsley imo is the main man in front of the back 4. Kav is a valuable player to have on the bench.
BTW, I read a comment about O'Shea in his last Epl game, 'did ok, nothing flash' which I take as one step in the right direction.

**zinedineontour** · 16/09/2006, 9:35 PM

Originally Posted by geysir

Kav is one of my favourite Irish players. It hurts that he hasn't done himself justice in the Ireland games.
He hasn't demonstrated enough consistency in the green shirt to warrant being a first team choice. That's a serious indictment considering the skill levels of the others. I had thought fortune did not favour him when Keane returned or when he got untimely injured.
There are a few glaring examples since when under pressure he was weak.
I saw his last chance as a first choice was blown when Kerr didn't pick him for the last game against the Swiss.
I knew we couldn't do any better with the midfield that day but Kerr I suspect couldn't place trust in Kav's lack of consistency.
Right now Kav is a squad member. With O'Shea fit, it's a question of who will partner O'Shea, any other consideration is just mind games.
With O'Shea injured or drafted elsewhere to fill some other position then Carsley imo is the main man in front of the back 4. Kav is a valuable player to have on the bench.
BTW, I read a comment about O'Shea in his last Epl game, 'did ok, nothing flash' which I take as one step in the right direction.

why keep picking o shea though when he has been very poor for the last couple of years for ireland ? Oh i forgot he plays for man utd so he must be good

**theworm2345** · 16/09/2006, 9:40 PM

Originally Posted by mjpcc

thanks eireboy.

great to see the goals.

We have all goals on my site from EPL, CCC, L1, and L2 if you want them. www.footballclips.net/forum (Im just theworm2345 there). Just go to the CCC L1 L2 thread and request (I am shameless

)

**mjpcc** · 18/09/2006, 2:20 AM

Originally Posted by thew0rm2345

We have all goals on my site from EPL, CCC, L1, and L2 if you want them. www.footballclips.net/forum (Im just theworm2345 there). Just go to the CCC L1 L2 thread and request (I am shameless

)

Thanks - I'll give it a try.

**Fergie's Son** · 18/09/2006, 3:38 AM

Originally Posted by zinedineontour

why keep picking o shea though when he has been very poor for the last couple of years for ireland ? Oh i forgot he plays for man utd so he must be good

It's not just that. A number of people rate him so it's not just because he "plays for United". But hey, if this makes you feel better then off you go.

O'Shea was very poor today against Arsenal so I'm not sure he should keep his place.

**Stuttgart88** · 18/09/2006, 7:36 AM

Originally Posted by zinedineontour

your having a laugh

About what exactly?

You can apply exactly the same arugument, i.e., why keep picking Kav despite good club form, as he's consistently poor for Ireland? That's why I said it's frustrating. May I ask you: how do yiou think Kavanagh did in Cyprus last year? He was playing well for Wigan at the time.

Kav is as talented a midfielder as we have & I've admired him for years (not just since he signed for Sunderland) but I can recall only 2 games where he's done anything of note since Kerr recalled him : home to Brazil and home to Cyprus. You could maybe add that sh1tty friendly against China when he did OK as a sub.

And Carrick was anonymous on Wednesday & JO'S played well when he came on. Nothing controversial there.

As I've said countless times on here I would not pick JO'S in midfield. I've stated my reasoning countless times too. In fact yesterday's second half performance against Arsenal highlighted all my (& everyone else's) doubts about him. He was the main scapegoat among Unitred fans on the R5 phone-in after the game too.

**Stuttgart88** · 18/09/2006, 9:30 AM

Back to earth!

From today's Guardian:

With Graham Kavanagh unable to impose himself as he did in the wins at Derby and Leeds, Dean Whitehead a shadow and Liam Miller poor, Sunderland lost the midfield, and there was not enough composure or class to compensate.

**tetsujin1979** · 18/09/2006, 9:38 AM

Miller was at fault for the goal too, losing possession and Leicester went down the other end and scored.

**youngirish** · 18/09/2006, 12:55 PM

I agree that Kavanagh has had a few bad games for Ireland particularly recently but he's also been good on occassion. He also hasn't been given a decent run in the team. I don't see a problem with trying him in a few games instead of O'Shea who has always (and I mean always) been sh*te for Ireland. Worse than Kav. O' Shea has also got numerous chances to prove me wrong whereby Kav hasn't really got a fair crack.

For what it's worth O'Shea was sh*te for United yesterday. Rosicky had a laugh at him. I fear the worst if he plays next month. Try Reid and Kav in the centre or Reid and Carsely (if he's fit). Or even Reid and J O'Brien if he's back for Bolton.

**NeilMcD** · 18/09/2006, 12:57 PM

Reid and Carsley for me.

**Stuttgart88** · 18/09/2006, 1:27 PM

Any combination of people who actually play in central midfield would do me!

Despite my disappointment in Kavanagh's recent performances (he wasn't even able to deliver a dead ball well against Holland) we can't afford to disregard him. I'd have him ahead of O'Shea for sure but I doubt very much that management think the same.

4-2-3-1:

Finnan--Dunne--O'Brien --AN Other
---Reid---Carsley
Doyle--Kav--Duff
------Robbie----

**NeilMcD** · 18/09/2006, 2:31 PM

Interesting formation stuttgart would not rule it out though.

**zinedineontour** · 18/09/2006, 6:20 PM

Originally Posted by Stuttgart88

About what exactly?

You can apply exactly the same arugument, i.e., why keep picking Kav despite good club form, as he's consistently poor for Ireland? That's why I said it's frustrating. May I ask you: how do yiou think Kavanagh did in Cyprus last year? He was playing well for Wigan at the time.

Kav is as talented a midfielder as we have & I've admired him for years (not just since he signed for Sunderland) but I can recall only 2 games where he's done anything of note since Kerr recalled him : home to Brazil and home to Cyprus. You could maybe add that sh1tty friendly against China when he did OK as a sub.

And Carrick was anonymous on Wednesday & JO'S played well when he came on. Nothing controversial there.

As I've said countless times on here I would not pick JO'S in midfield. I've stated my reasoning countless times too. In fact yesterday's second half performance against Arsenal highlighted all my (& everyone else's) doubts about him. He was the main scapegoat among Unitred fans on the R5 phone-in after the game too.

kav was no worse in cyrpus than anyone else .. at least he imposes himself in midfield and is not afraid of the ball like oshea .. his performance in germany was one of the worst i have ever seen in a green jersey . Watch the germany game and count how many successful passes he made and count how many he gave away ..