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Thread: 2024 Season, Arrivals and Departures

  1. #241
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    Quote Originally Posted by SwanVsDalton View Post
    I like Kavanagh a lot and would have played him much more than Higgins did - but he's not going to displace McMullan or Duffy (never mind Kelly) and Derry are coming down with mercurial ballplayers of his type when what they really need is pace, physicality and goals.

    Would have been tough to keep him after two years of mostly coming off the bench. Good luck to him though, good player.
    McMullan, Duffy and Kelly are wingers.

    Kavanagh is a centre mid or a 10.
    roddy collins you're a flanker you're a flanker!

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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    It's because we are winning leagues. Pat's can blood young players because they aren't expected to. It's working well at the moment but realistically the players they bring in who have them somewhat competitive will go before they have a chance to win the league unless the standard drops dramatically. So we are both cursed! Yahoo.

    We really need a better solution for the u21 age group.
    That's a really bad excuse. You can win leagues and blood young players. Man United did it for years under Ferguson. Liverpool and City are doing it now. Barcelona basically dominated Spain by doing it correctly (having Messi certainly helped of course). I'd wager it's probably a slightly easier situation for a young player to go into than a club that's languishing at the foot of the table. You go into a dressing room where everyone knows their role, knows what is expected of them and can give you guidance in what you need to do and what level you need to be at to win. You can make frequent cameo appearances in the beginning rather than being thrust into the limelight and basically forced to sink or swim.

    There does need to be an u21 league to help bridge the gap. But league expectations are not an excuse to not play young players

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  4. #243
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    Ah stu, we've "known" each long enough that I thought I'd have a bit of credit in the bank!

    It could be true that no Rovers player played above themselves but I'm happy enough with that. It doesn't mean we didn't see very high levels of performance. Grace and Gaffney in particular were exceptionally good but everyone played very well outside of the European debacle.

    But look we know what these lists are. The players who stood out the most at their clubs and played above and beyond those around them usually get the votes. Would I put Keating in a team over Gaffney? Not a chance in hell. But Keating stood out for a fairly poor Cork side and deserves the praise. He almost saved them on his own.

    If it was just a vote for the best players it would be very boring altogether. I'd fancy a full strength Rovers 11 to beat that team of the season though.

    Also shocked not to see Duff on the shortlist. Thought it would be Bradley, Duff and Doherty but it's hard to argue with Daly's inclusion. Some turnaround in form and a cup win to boot...he might even be favourite! I don't think Bradley will get it but how weird is that? The only man to ever win four in a row and he probably won't be the manager of the year. If you listen to his interview with Richie Sadlier you might even vote for him yourself. Heartbreaking stuff. No idea how he has kept the focus through the last few seasons.
    I think Clarke & Farrugia would walk into Team of the Season but both were injured for a very long time. Lopes was below his best this year. Grace was incredibly reliable. Cleary was generally good but showed poor judgment and temprament at times. Mannus missed about 15 games. None of our centre mids was particularly outstanding, solid yes, but it took me ten games to wonder if Poom had anything about him at all. Burke might have been close. No other forward played consistently, and when he did play Kenny was poor a lot of the time. Towell had me scratching my head at times. Sometimes I think we're better off having him just so somebody else doesn't.

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    Yeah, can understand why Rovers fans would be bemused by the lack of players in the TOTS, but I feel like the strength of their squad was the story of the season rather than stand-out individuals, whereas the opposite is the case for most other sides in the league. Grace was great and Gaffney for me is the best in the league, but a lot of the other top players either lacked minutes relative to others (Farrugia for instance played about 10 games worth of minutes fewer than Ben Doherty and Sam Curtis. Byrne injured, Burke limited minutes etc), or those that played the majority of minutes are non-sexy names like O'Neill that do a great, functional job but don't necessarily get the big moments other midfielders have that got picked. Ultimately it doesn't really matter, I think the majority of clubs in the league probably have had fans moaning about omissions so there's no real winning here.

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  7. #245
    First Team WeAreRovers's Avatar
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    Funnily enough Pats fan Dodge get's it right IMO - Gaffney far and away best player in the League again, GON the stand out holding midfielder year after year and Lee Grace the best of our 3 excellent centre-halves.

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  9. #246
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    Quote Originally Posted by Another Bohemia View Post
    That's a really bad excuse. You can win leagues and blood young players. Man United did it for years under Ferguson. Liverpool and City are doing it now. Barcelona basically dominated Spain by doing it correctly (having Messi certainly helped of course). I'd wager it's probably a slightly easier situation for a young player to go into than a club that's languishing at the foot of the table. You go into a dressing room where everyone knows their role, knows what is expected of them and can give you guidance in what you need to do and what level you need to be at to win. You can make frequent cameo appearances in the beginning rather than being thrust into the limelight and basically forced to sink or swim.

    There does need to be an u21 league to help bridge the gap. But league expectations are not an excuse to not play young players
    The biggest clubs in the world with established academies that have attracted the best talent available can do it? Grand so. How many academy players are starting for Man City by the way? I can only think of Foden off hand. Are there others? They've gone out and bought the best players in the world and broken the rules to do it. Liverpool maybe have more but....they aren't winning the league are they?

    Who of the Pats players who have played regularly would have displaced any of our strongest 11 for you? Not a single one for me and they are the best in the league imop. Murphy, Leavy and Curtis would make the squad and they'd be getting cameos just like Nugent, Razi, Noonan and Cruise got this season. But we would not have won the league with them playing every week. Curtis is the shining light but he isn't better than Dan Cleary or Neil Farrugia at either position. He'd be a backup like Finn and I'm not sure I'd play him over Finn either tbh. Now if Pats can hold on to Murphy and Leavy and add a few more they may win a league if/when we fade. But I'd wager that team is broken up by player sales too soon for it.

    Of course I do like your idea of academy players playing more. It's exciting. There will be seasons when academy players are good enough to play more and we can still win the league hopefully but it wasn't this season. Maybe next. I'd play Razi over the likes of Power. But I'd expect Razi to be snapped up before he gets a chance to win a league again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuttgart88 View Post
    I think Clarke & Farrugia would walk into Team of the Season but both were injured for a very long time. Lopes was below his best this year. Grace was incredibly reliable. Cleary was generally good but showed poor judgment and temprament at times. Mannus missed about 15 games. None of our centre mids was particularly outstanding, solid yes, but it took me ten games to wonder if Poom had anything about him at all. Burke might have been close. No other forward played consistently, and when he did play Kenny was poor a lot of the time. Towell had me scratching my head at times. Sometimes I think we're better off having him just so somebody else doesn't.
    Yeah as I said I'm not bothered by it. All the picks make sense. How could you leave out the lio s of Keating and Afolabi really? Stellar seasons at their clubs. It's just funny they blanked the four in a row champs so much and even got the one pick wrong! Grace was the best defender in the league this season. Pico wasn't at his best after each international break but other than that he was brilliant. Mad that we have such a weak league but he's playing in the AFCON and can't even make the best 11 here.....

    Poom is a funny one. Took me a while as well but I think that was just him adjusting to the speed of the press. He got caught out a few times. He mentioned that in a recent interview. He was excellent after the first series of games.

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  12. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    The biggest clubs in the world with established academies that have attracted the best talent available can do it? Grand so. How many academy players are starting for Man City by the way? I can only think of Foden off hand. Are there others? They've gone out and bought the best players in the world and broken the rules to do it. Liverpool maybe have more but....they aren't winning the league are they?

    Who of the Pats players who have played regularly would have displaced any of our strongest 11 for you? Not a single one for me and they are the best in the league imop. Murphy, Leavy and Curtis would make the squad and they'd be getting cameos just like Nugent, Razi, Noonan and Cruise got this season. But we would not have won the league with them playing every week. Curtis is the shining light but he isn't better than Dan Cleary or Neil Farrugia at either position. He'd be a backup like Finn and I'm not sure I'd play him over Finn either tbh. Now if Pats can hold on to Murphy and Leavy and add a few more they may win a league if/when we fade. But I'd wager that team is broken up by player sales too soon for it.

    Of course I do like your idea of academy players playing more. It's exciting. There will be seasons when academy players are good enough to play more and we can still win the league hopefully but it wasn't this season. Maybe next. I'd play Razi over the likes of Power. But I'd expect Razi to be snapped up before he gets a chance to win a league again.
    So Farrugia had significant injury layoff or layoffs this year and Rovers wouldn't have given Curtis
    a run in the team? Towell has significant game time and other Rovers fans seem to think that he is signed so no one else has him so the likes of Murphy from Pat's or Clarke from Bohs (who is a former Rovers academy player) wouldn't be better options than a player who is signed so other teams don't have him? Right.

    Yes the club's I mentioned have world class academies but Rovers have the best academy facilities in the league. Some of the best academy coaches and a head coach who at least to some degree was involved in how the academy functions even if it was at the beginning of his tenure. This should all lead to at least some more cohesion between the academy and first team and probably more academy products having very regular starts for the first team.

  13. #249
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    Some of our best academy products are playing in the Championship rather than the LOI - Bazunu, Emakhu, Armstrong - that's a sign of success. Those 3 all played for the first team but, as outlined above, it's very difficult to break into a league-winning side from the academy. Sam Curtis even had to leave Rovers for game time.

    With the lack of a third tier/B League/U21 League, the Rovers B team playing in the First Division was the ideal solution but of course was shot down by other clubs. I suspect the likes of Pats and Bohs will change their tune on that sooner rather than later. We badly need a way to bridge between U19 and first team for academy players.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeAreRovers View Post
    With the lack of a third tier/B League/U21 League, the Rovers B team playing in the First Division was the ideal solution but of course was shot down by other clubs. I suspect the likes of Pats and Bohs will change their tune on that sooner rather than later. We badly need a way to bridge between U19 and first team for academy players.
    Pats & I believe Dundalk backed the idea at the time and expressed interest with the FAI to putting their own B teams into the First Division. Other clubs, mostly the FD clubs, were the ones unhappy with it. I can see the point of view of both sides of the debate on it, but one thing is for sure, there definitely needs to be a better bridge between 19s and Premier Division. As good as Pats have been at integrating the best young players in the academy into the first team, they’ve lost Brian Maher and Tommy Lonergan (got him back though as Bohs fans will tell you ) due to other players being ahead of them at the time and both being too good to remain playing at 19s level. If there was a better bridge you’d see clubs holding onto the players that fall into that bracket
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  15. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post

    Who of the Pats players who have played regularly would have displaced any of our strongest 11 for you? Not a single one for me and they are the best in the league imop. Murphy, Leavy and Curtis would make the squad and they'd be getting cameos just like Nugent, Razi, Noonan and Cruise got this season. But we would not have won the league with them playing every week. Curtis is the shining light but he isn't better than Dan Cleary or Neil Farrugia at either position. He'd be a backup like Finn and I'm not sure I'd play him over Finn either tbh.
    I know you're looking at it through green and white glasses but it's ludicrous to suggest you have four defenders better than Curtis. There aren't four defenders better than him in the whole league.

    And you're wrong also in your other post when you say he "had to leave Rovers for game time". He was 15 at the time. He moved because he and his advisors correctly reckoned we'd provide him with a better pathway.

  16. #252
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    That was me re Curtis and 'better pathway' is the modern way of saying 'game time' - point remains the same.

    Re B teams in the First Division there was one Dublin PD club dead set against Rovers II in the FD. And it wasn't Pats.
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    Quote Originally Posted by patsdad View Post
    I know you're looking at it through green and white glasses but it's ludicrous to suggest you have four defenders better than Curtis. There aren't four defenders better than him in the whole league.

    And you're wrong also in your other post when you say he "had to leave Rovers for game time". He was 15 at the time. He moved because he and his advisors correctly reckoned we'd provide him with a better pathway.
    You genuinely think Curtis is better than Cleary and Farrugia? Not for me. He's a very good prospect but he's not better than what we have starting in either position. He also wouldn't have played ahead of Finn when he was our starter and Curtis was younger. I think he made the right call going to Pats tbh.

    He'd make the squad as I said but he wouldn't play which is the point of all of this. He's also an outlier given his maturity so not the best example to be used in any counter argument here.

    What do you mean by a better pathway other than playing by the way? Surely that's the main thing? He made the right call imop. Hurts to see how good he's gotten but for the reasons above I think Pats was a better place for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ontheotherhand View Post
    You genuinely think Curtis is better than Cleary and Farrugia? Not for me. He's a very good prospect but he's not better than what we have starting in either position. He also wouldn't have played ahead of Finn when he was our starter and Curtis was younger. I think he made the right call going to Pats tbh.m.
    I’d say Curtis is a better defender than Farrugia, but Farrugia is a better atttacker.
    Hard to compare them two because they play different positions imo.
    Curtis’ best position is RB, but Rovers haven’t played a back 4 for ages. He can also do a job at CB but his best position in full back.
    Farrugia on the other hand is a winger who’s been converted to a wing back. They’ve quite different skillsets.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Philosophizer View Post
    I’d say Curtis is a better defender than Farrugia, but Farrugia is a better atttacker.
    Hard to compare them two because they play different positions imo.
    Curtis’ best position is RB, but Rovers haven’t played a back 4 for ages. He can also do a job at CB but his best position in full back.
    Farrugia on the other hand is a winger who’s been converted to a wing back. They’ve quite different skillsets.
    That's fair enough. Pound for pound though, Farrugia is currently a better player in my opinion. Best in the league on his day. Curtis may end up better and seems more durable for sure! But Farrugia won their battles this season.

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    First Team Jd2793's Avatar
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    pace will be the problem going forward for curtis. think he has a high enough ceiling but his pace is what'll stop him reaching the top level imo. farriuga has loads of it but cant be relied on fitness wise.

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    Some amazing opinions on Curtis here and I have to ask how often the posters concerned have actually watched him. As someone who has seen every game he played this season I stand over my opinion on his quality. And he's far from short on pace.

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  23. #258
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    I'd like to see Farrugia play centrally, a Thierry Henry type role. He has a great ability to always beat his first man and he has electric pace. Not wholly reliable in front of goal but I think he'd get easier chances running straight on goal rather than cutting in. I think starting from wide deep poisitions weakens his influence.
    Last edited by Stuttgart88; 20/11/2023 at 4:48 PM.

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    It's very hard to compare Curtis and Farrugia. Curtis is a right back who can play centre back. Farrugia is a wing back whose second position is a winger. Farrugia suits Rovers more with the current setup they have but as regards quality it's neck and neck and both are amongst the best in the league. Farrugia's injury record is his main drawback, he'd probably be abroad if it wasn't for that. Ideally we'd have both with Curtis as the full back and Farrugia as the winger.

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    A decent discussion anyway, both are good with the potential to get better.
    Farrugia still needs to keep his head up when running at people (easier said than done!) and his final ball needs to improve greatly.
    Curtis looks like one of those players who could potentially play anywhere on the pitch (e.g Bellingham) and do well. The skill level of the game here has increased imo,and I'd just hope that players of their ilk can find a place in Europe to really reach their potential ,and not get bogged down in the dirge that is sub EPL football

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