Where are we going wrong in Europe ??

**White Horse** · 28/07/2015, 9:06 AM

Good teams are put together in the LOI, Dundalk at the moment, Pats in 2012, Sligo in 2011.

The problem is that it is very difficult to step up to a much higher standard when European football comes round. Football is mainly an instinctive game and bad habits are formed by playing against poor teams week in week out.

Until the league develops more better teams and improves the general standard, good teams will struggle to make the step up when July comes around.

**SalvadorSanchez** · 28/07/2015, 9:46 AM

Originally Posted by SkStu

I think that the spirit of this thread is off. The league is doing as well as can be expected all things considered. It is not really the fault of the clubs, the players, the managers, the fans etc - each of those gives their all (except Nutsy), especially when it comes to European campaigns. The problems with domestic league football are systemic and the fault lies squarely at the feet of the FAI and league administration. The key to even moderate European success is financial and using finances to invest in facilities/youth systems and attract/produce better players all of which leads to success which attracts more fans which brings more euros and so on and makes the success and attraction sustainable. Most clubs are doing their best to get bums on seats and engage their communities but it is often done on a voluntary basis, off the side of someones desk/life and receives little to no support from any *body*. Its a disgrace. Rather than focus on why we don't win matches in Europe from season to season we need to get back to addressing the root cause. F*ck All Interest.

Can't disagree with anything said here, there was a graphic on Soccer Rep. last night showing the win rate has almost doubled in the last few years.. and I believe there is progress and that the standard of the product is starting to improve again...
I happen to believe that this League can grow and develop and that we can do better in Europe and that if we can get a club or two on a decent European campaign every few years that it could be a real shot in the arm for our league...
There's lots of work that needs doing and there needs to be a plan put in place and one person put in overall charge of a programme to develop the league... not the schoolboys, national team etc. just the league...
we need to look at facilities, funding, prizes and also other issues like the types of people who run clubs in our league, we also need to look at the ground licensing... how some clubs keep getting premier licences is beyond me...
we as fans have been putting up with bad grounds, inconsistent quality of the football product, shabby budgets and financial mismanagement, daft chairmen with other agendas (or megalomania) chaos in management, players released in off season, lower league English clubs hoovering up our best players....

Every single one of these issue can dealt with systematically, one by one, if there is a will and the support of the chain of command to make it happen... it's not impossible, it's not easy either, but it needs to be tackled... the new U17 league seems like a positive development... as is the Centre of Excellence in Cork... as is the Dalymount redevelopment plan... as is the success of SDCC building Tallaght Stadium... There are positives, let's use them as a launch pad and drive on...

**pineapple stu** · 28/07/2015, 10:39 AM

Originally Posted by SalvadorSanchez

there was a graphic on Soccer Rep. last night showing the win rate has almost doubled in the last few years

Didn't see that graphic, but have to be careful with stuff like that - if we were seeded for a few years, of course the win rate would increase as we're playing lower opposition.

Also, the increase in qualifying rounds means we're not playing Everton in the first round any more.

Needs a bit more detail than just "we're winning more games now than in the past"

**gufcfan** · 28/07/2015, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by pineapple stu

The FAI have lots of things to answer for, but the number of yellow cards over the weekend isn't one of them.

The numbers of cards, no. The amount they gather in fines, yes.

**Nesta99** · 28/07/2015, 11:14 AM

The graphic was from 2 period 1990-'02 and '02 to '15.

**pineapple stu** · 28/07/2015, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by gufcfan

The numbers of cards, no. The amount they gather in fines, yes.

There's a lot of stupid fines alright (STIG used to collate and mock some of them), but I think the bookings one is fairly standard.

Originally Posted by Nesta99

The graphic was from 2 period 1990-'02 and '02 to '15.

Figured. That chart is meaningless so. The latter includes a far higher proportion of winnable ties.

Look at the draws in 1990/91 -

Pat's v Dinamo Bucharest (including some of the Romania team that had just played Ireland in the World Cup)
Bray v Trabzonspor - that was the only tie in the preliminary round; Trabzonspor played Barca in the first round proper
Derry v Vitesse Arnhem

In each case, the Irish team drew at home and lost away - quite respectable actually.

Compare that to this year - Luxembourg x 2, Iceland, Latvia and Belarus. BATE are the only ones comparable I would say.

**TheBoss** · 29/07/2015, 2:38 AM

Lets settle this mini debate then!, the tables below do not include group stage matches that were played in Intertoto Cup (1995, 1996, 1997) and Europa League (2011) as they were not knockout ties.

1990-2002	P	W	D	L	F	A	W%	D%	L%	Q	NQ
LOI Seeded	6	1	3	2	6	5	17%	50%	33%	1	2
LOI Unseeded	88	10	17	61	52	177	11%	19%	69%	6	42

2003-2015	P	W	D	L	F	A	W%	D%	L%	Q	NQ
LOI Seeded	52	22	14	16	76	58	42%	27%	31%	16	10
LOI Unseeded	128	30	31	67	108	196	23%	24%	52%	20	44

Some may argue that the seeded teams in 1990s were of higher quality than the seeded teams from the 2000s and that would be a reason for the higher win rate against seeded teams in the most recent chart. I could go more indepth with the data but that maybe too much information for one to get to grips with!